Maybe it is just me. When reading this thread or some others it seems like many have the opinion that there is a binary choice of either being for accountability of tax payer monies or having development being done to improve the quality of life in OKC.

Maybe it is just me. When reading this thread or some others it seems like many have the opinion that there is a binary choice of either being for accountability of tax payer monies or having development being done to improve the quality of life in OKC.

Yeah, I'm really not sure where that whole wanting to know how the money is being spent = refuse to spend a cent thing started. Thankfully those who subscribe to this theory make themselves known, sometimes quite vocally, making it easier to ignore them.

Yeah, I'm really not sure where that whole wanting to know how the money is being spent = refuse to spend a cent thing started. Thankfully those who subscribe to this theory make themselves known, sometimes quite vocally, making it easier to ignore them.

I think most (including me) just want to make sure the tax dollars and proceeds are being managed and spent as effectively as possible.

No way to know that when everything is handled through bodies which operate completely outside the public eye.


I asked the spokesman for the non-profit the reason for this arrangement and the reply was that it takes the politics out of running the fairgrounds. Not sure that I think this is a very good explanation or if it's even true.

My main concern is that hundreds of millions of tax dollars have been poured into the fairgrounds and for the most part it is not a very nice facility, and it's impossible to determine the reasons for this given the current setup.

Are you guys bent because you're going to get charged to parked on lots paved by MAPS dollars? I'm confused

Pete, thanks for shining the light of accountability. You are in a unique position to hold those in power and control the purse strings to being transperent and ethical with these huge sums of revenue. This applies to how the projects proceed in order of preference as well as monies spent outside of MAPS dollars such as TIF money. Well done sir.

Pete, thanks for shining the light of accountability. You are in a unique position to hold those in power and control the purse strings to being transperent and ethical with these huge sums of revenue. This applies to how the projects proceed in order of preference as well as monies spent outside of MAPS dollars such as TIF money. Well done sir.

:congrats:

Are you guys bent because you're going to get charged to parked on lots paved by MAPS dollars? I'm confused

Paying to park on paved lots supported by MAPS initiative funds doesn't set well. As Pete has attempted to hammer home is transparency. It's not about any one thing the city has done; however someone needs to keep this process in check.

It's unfortunate that the City can't supply the public with all the line items needed to put these projects together. Future costs associated with many MAPS venues like the convention center anchor hotel and surface & parking garage on the convention center complex need to be included; same applies to the fairgrounds. A contingency ($30-$45 million) fund won't cover all of these costs especially the ones that grossly exceed the bid.

OKCTalk needs to be commended for its extraordinary reports on many of our recent developments on this forum.

People pay to park in lots across the world paid for by tax dollars. You may view it as some sort of double taxation (and perhaps it is) but I don't get how this is a big deal.

People pay to park in lots across the world paid for by tax dollars. You may view it as some sort of double taxation (and perhaps it is) but I don't get how this is a big deal.
Well, I’m opinion, the fairgrounds has become a rather sh!t facility lately. The parking lots need improving. More sidewalks running down the middle. Structured parking near the future arena(would also make up for a loss of parking from adding walking paths through the lots) and more landscaping. If these new charting rates bring new improvements to the fairgrounds then I’m all for it. It would be nice if they would come out and give an idea of what the funds will be used for.

I used to live in Ohio. We always had to pay for parking at the local county fairgrounds as well as the state fair park. I see no problem with it.

I used to live in Ohio. We always had to pay for parking at the local county fairgrounds as well as the state fair park. I see no problem with it.

Some people just always want and expect cheap/free in one hand and world class in the other. Not saying this is world class Of course, but it's been noted several times before on this forum that many Oklahomans always expect free or cheap.

Some people just always want and expect cheap/free in one hand and world class in the other. Not saying this is world class Of course, but it's been noted several times before on this forum that many Oklahomans always expect free or cheap.

Some people like being ripped off and paying three times for the same thing, some don't. Yeah yeah yeah. As you note, we've been going back and forth on this for awhile now, don't think anyone's going to change their view, can we move on now? If not, think you guys can at least come up with a better insult?

People pay to park in lots across the world paid for by tax dollars. You may view it as some sort of double taxation (and perhaps it is) but I don't get how this is a big deal.

Charging $10 for parking on paved lots is going to hurt a lot of the events currently at the fairgrounds. Considering the majority of events, are events attempting to sell you something, adding to the cost of going changes the cost/benefit ratio.

The excuse and lack of accountability also doesn't sit well with me. Regardless, I already have a hard time justifying paying to go to things like the Home and Garden show, which are all just vendors trying to get you to use their services. Now add to that cost, and I probably just won't go. I think a lot of people will be in the same boat. Same with events like JBF, it costs $10pp to get in, then $10 to park, now a couple needs to save $30 just to break even. Never mind, cosigners may have to enter the parking lot 3 times, so now they have to make $30 selling their used stuff just to pay for their parking.

This. If I was starting up a new hobby, home and garden, swap meet, or gun show, the type of events which typically charge just $5 or $10 to enter, I'd probably look elsewhere.

If these new charting rates bring new improvements to the fairgrounds then I’m all for it. It would be nice if they would come out and give an idea of what the funds will be used for.

Even if they just use it to maintain the parking lots, then it prevents the need for the city to maintain (pave) them going forward and it becomes self sustaining. But, like you say, it would be nice to know whether they will do that or not. We can have free parking, but it isn't really free.

Even if they just use it to maintain the parking lots, then it prevents the need for the city to maintain (pave) them going forward and it becomes self sustaining. But, like you say, it would be nice to know whether they will do that or not. We can have free parking, but it isn't really free.

It is not free now. The fairgrounds got MAPS money as well as ongoing funds from the hotel-motel tax. The issue is whether or not fairgoers pay twice or three times to park. Of course the fairgrounds authority could just open up their books to make their case to the public.

It is not free now. The fairgrounds got MAPS money as well as ongoing funds from the hotel-motel tax. The issue is whether or not fairgoers pay twice or three times to park. Of course the fairgrounds authority could just open up their books to make their case to the public.

That's what I'm saying. They'll need maintenance again. If this money is used for that, those other resources won't need to be tapped again in the future. That is, fair goers that park there will pay for maintenance of the parking lots they are parking in.

It's just tons more income for the fairgrounds.

Where that money will be spent is anyone's guess and the public will never know.

Where that money will be spent is anyone's guess and the public will never know.

Which is definitely the most important problem in the big picture.

It's just tons more income for the fairgrounds.

Where that money will be spent is anyone's guess and the public will never know.

If someone wanted to force the issue, couldn't a Freedom of information filing be made or a lawsuit filed to get any records?

If someone wanted to force the issue, couldn't a Freedom of information filing be made or a lawsuit filed to get any records?

They'd probably just say the FOIA doesn't apply to them or just ignore it like so many other state agencies seem to do without consequences...

They'd probably just say the FOIA doesn't apply to them or just ignore it like so many other state agencies seem to do without consequences...

They have already told me the state's open meetings and records laws don't apply to them and that is why they don't publish their minutes and other things that would be otherwise required.

They have already told me the state's open meetings and records laws don't apply to them and that is why they don't publish their minutes and other things that would be otherwise required.

Could you get one of our State reps or senators to request an AG's opinion on whether that is legal?

Could you get one of our State reps or senators to request an AG's opinion on whether that is legal?

I might.

There is a ton of money flowing through there, almost all being tax dollars.

I might.

There is a ton of money flowing through there, almost all being tax dollars.

Which leads me to think they have to be required to comply. Otherwise, by not making the information public, it just makes everyone wonder what are they hiding?

maybe one of the lawyers on here can help Pete out with some pro bono legal notices....

regarding the parking fees

http://kfor.com/2018/02/22/plan-to-charge-for-paved-parking-at-state-fair-park-has-been-postponed-indefinitely/

regarding the parking fees

http://kfor.com/2018/02/22/plan-to-charge-for-paved-parking-at-state-fair-park-has-been-postponed-indefinitely/

I'm really glad they decided not to charge for parking, at least for now.

I know they got strong push-back from a lot of the big events and I'm sure that had something to do with this.

I find it especially satisfactory that a livestock group (IPRA) is who was quoted as saying it was not a good idea. I'm positive that they dont give a fat crap what the public thinks, but at least they listen to the horse people that they drool over. And thank you to said horse people for speaking up and slapping some sense into these people.

I agree that it was outcry from the people/organizations renting the buildings, and not the public, that led to the rethinking. My question at this point is how many organizations said "do this and we bail" and how many, needing to plan in advance, have indeed already found a new location. How much scrambling now needs to be done to win those organizations back, organizations that were already looking due to the rising rent? I've also seen articles talking about how the wrestling competition will be forced out because they can't ask their people to pay parking, the library sale going on this weekend was already seeking a better venue before this decision, and SUPER! BitCon can't afford to return, regardless of what is done with parking. The announcement on their webpage explicitly states that it's in part due to the storm last year, but also in part due to rising costs.

tl;dr: It's ironic the rodeo had to tell them how stupid stepping into this huge pile of horse crap was.

A light needs to be shined on the fairgrounds, their finances and their business decisions.

Since they are completely funded by public dollars, there is no reason they should operate in such secrecy which seems to be pretty aggressively defended.

I want to delve into this further. I understand generally what they are trying to do but the public needs to have more involvement.

Pete, I've said that all along since the Fairgrounds always seems to show up for the MAPS spigot despite the fact that they have a well known funding mechanism in place and are run in such secrecy.

I'd love to have the light reveal what goes on there and why stupid decisions (remove the space needle, monorail, grandstand etc that made the fair what it was) were enacted and who is accountable. ... I think Clay Bennett is on the board but I can't think he'd be the one behind these ridiculous decisions given his love for OKC and what he has done otherwise for the city which has been spectacular. ...

For those pining to see the monorail run again...one of the cars was made into a race car by Farm Truck and AZN on a TV show mash up of Street Outlaws and Fast 'N Loud called Build To Mega Race 2. Its the skin mounted on a truck chassis. It's called the Gonorail, with the tag line "Don't worry, you can't catch it."

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t/28157916_704827146573282_5106991851844403200_n.jpg

interesting/neat but hopefully one of them made it to the railway museum (I'm sure someone has pointed out if so but I didn't catch it).

I know one of the trainsets was turned into a float and used in the Christmas regatta on the Oklahoma River some years ago.

We found this book at an estate sale. The copyright is 1994.

14663

This is the first image inside the book. It made me kind of sad to think how much has changed since that photo was taken. The space needle was such an iconic part of the fair. Also of note is the confederate flag flying along with others. I wonder when (or if) they quit flying it there.

14664

Edit...not sure why my pictures are flipped. Vertical on the computer. Sorry.

I never really noticed they flew the confederate flag. Interesting and I agree, sad about the space needle. Thanks for the heads up on the book. Our Pioneer library has it.

I never really noticed they flew the confederate flag. Interesting and I agree, sad about the space needle. Thanks for the heads up on the book. Our Pioneer library has it.


The 11th and 12th flags were during the War Between the States from 1861-1865 when the Choctaw Confederate troops carried the Choctaw Indian Nation flag and the Confederate Battle Flag also flew over Oklahoma.

14 Flags Plaza Shows State History: https://newsok.com/article/2551499/14-flags-plaza-shows-state-history

14 Flags Plaza Shows State History: https://newsok.com/article/2551499/14-flags-plaza-shows-state-history

Thanks, Laramie! That explanation may very well be in the book itself, but I haven't gotten far enough into the book to be dealing with its current location. Appreciate the link.

The Oklahoma State Fair announced the musical lineup for the fair this fall and I have to say it's pretty underwhelming...

Thursday, September 13 - Colt Ford
Friday, September 14 - Neal McCoy
Saturday, September 15 - Beatles Mania Live
Sunday, September 16 - Los Traileros Del Norte
Monday, September 17 - Jordan Feliz
Tuesday, September 18 - Herman's Hermits
Wednesday, September 19 - Elvis Extravaganza
Thursday, September 20 - Dylan Scott
Friday, September 21 - dru Hill
Saturday, September 22 - Foghat
Sunday, September 23 - Space Oddity - The Ultimate David Bowie Experience

The Oklahoma State Fair announced the musical lineup for the fair this fall and I have to say it's pretty underwhelming...

Thursday, September 13 - Colt Ford
Friday, September 14 - Neal McCoy
Saturday, September 15 - Beatles Mania Live
Sunday, September 16 - Los Traileros Del Norte
Monday, September 17 - Jordan Feliz
Tuesday, September 18 - Herman's Hermits
Wednesday, September 19 - Elvis Extravaganza
Thursday, September 20 - Dylan Scott
Friday, September 21 - dru Hill
Saturday, September 22 - Foghat
Sunday, September 23 - Space Oddity - The Ultimate David Bowie Experience

Man, what has happened to the State Fair? I would say they are a dying breed, but many, many other state fairs are thriving.

I agree. I have seen Sevendust and Blue October at the State Fair in years past.

This year, at the Minnesota State Fair, Sugarland, Earth Wind and Fire, Beach Boys, Jason Mraz, Impractical Jokes, 311/Offspring/Gym class Heroes and Boy George/B-52's are playing.

This year at the Iowa State Fair, Casting crowns, Reba McEntire, Daughtry, Old Dominion, Papa Roach/Chevelle, Jim Gaffigan, Thomas Rhett, Earth, Wind and Fire, Sugarland and Florida Georgia Line are playing,

There are several other fairs out there with solid lineups and for some reason OK doesn't do the same thing. Is there any particular reason why? Is there too much of a focus on the horse shows because that is where all the money comes from?

The Oklahoma State Fair announced the musical lineup for the fair this fall and I have to say it's pretty underwhelming...

Thursday, September 13 - Colt Ford
Friday, September 14 - Neal McCoy
Saturday, September 15 - Beatles Mania Live
Sunday, September 16 - Los Traileros Del Norte
Monday, September 17 - Jordan Feliz
Tuesday, September 18 - Herman's Hermits
Wednesday, September 19 - Elvis Extravaganza
Thursday, September 20 - Dylan Scott
Friday, September 21 - dru Hill
Saturday, September 22 - Foghat
Sunday, September 23 - Space Oddity - The Ultimate David Bowie Experience

NOW the "OKC gets the hind teat" BS would be appropriate...

The Oklahoma State Fair announced the musical lineup for the fair this fall and I have to say it's pretty underwhelming...

Thursday, September 13 - Colt Ford
Friday, September 14 - Neal McCoy
Saturday, September 15 - Beatles Mania Live
Sunday, September 16 - Los Traileros Del Norte
Monday, September 17 - Jordan Feliz
Tuesday, September 18 - Herman's Hermits
Wednesday, September 19 - Elvis Extravaganza
Thursday, September 20 - Dylan Scott
Friday, September 21 - dru Hill
Saturday, September 22 - Foghat
Sunday, September 23 - Space Oddity - The Ultimate David Bowie Experience

Wouldn't the Ultimate David Bowie Experience be actually seeing Bowie himself live (no longer possible, but still)?

Man, what has happened to the State Fair? I would say they are a dying breed, but many, many other state fairs are thriving.

OKC leadership has been actively dismantling the Fair a bit at a time without actually cancelling the event itself. Leadership gives not two craps about the Fair. If it doesn't have a mane and a tail, and whinnies, it might as well be a leprosy convention.

OKC leadership has been actively dismantling the Fair a bit at a time without actually cancelling the event itself. Leadership gives not two craps about the Fair. If it doesn't have a mane and a tail, and whinnies, it might as well be a leprosy convention.

I guess not everyone agrees:

SmartAsset’s list of the ‘Best State Fairs in America’ is as follows:

1. North Dakota State Fair
2. Arizona State Fair
3. Delaware State Fair
4. Washington State Fair
5. Tulsa State Fair
6. Iowa State Fair
7. Oklahoma State Fair
8. Alaska State Fair
9. New Mexico State Fair
10. Nebraska State Fair.

From Vacationsmadeeasy.com:

20. Oklahoma State Fair, Oklahoma City, OK

Every year, the Oklahoma State Fair is spectacular, with endless savory and sweet food options, big name concerts, extreme bull riding and fun competitions (including an arm wrestling competition!). The fair also usually includes an ice skating performance, plenty of rides and games, and quite a bit of fun for adults and kids alike.

Just because the fair isn't the hottest hangout for the "cool kids" doesn't mean that the general public of OK and OKC don't enjoy it a great deal. We moan and groan on this board about a lot of things that most people frankly don't.

I guess not everyone agrees:

SmartAsset’s list of the ‘Best State Fairs in America’ is as follows:

1. North Dakota State Fair
2. Arizona State Fair
3. Delaware State Fair
4. Washington State Fair
5. Tulsa State Fair
6. Iowa State Fair
7. Oklahoma State Fair
8. Alaska State Fair
9. New Mexico State Fair
10. Nebraska State Fair.

From Vacationsmadeeasy.com:

20. Oklahoma State Fair, Oklahoma City, OK

Every year, the Oklahoma State Fair is spectacular, with endless savory and sweet food options, big name concerts, extreme bull riding and fun competitions (including an arm wrestling competition!). The fair also usually includes an ice skating performance, plenty of rides and games, and quite a bit of fun for adults and kids alike.

The fact that it shows up on some Internet clickbait "Top Xx Things In America" has exactly zero to do with the fact that the leadership of OKC has been dismantling the Fair one piece at a time for years. And griping about it publicly in a forum like this is the only place some "unconnected" folks like me have to put the issue out for discussion. The fairgrounds is a sad shell of what it used to be, and there's really not much debating that.

The fact that it shows up on some Internet clickbait "Top Xx Things In America" has exactly zero to do with the fact that the leadership of OKC has been dismantling the Fair one piece at a time for years. And griping about it publicly in a forum like this is the only place some "unconnected" folks like me have to put the issue out for discussion. The fairgrounds is a sad shell of what it used to be, and there's really not much debating that.

i guess i don't remember the times of this great and wonderful state fair that people remember... the fair (to me, is the same now in most ways as it was in the 80's, 90's and 2000's.. it's a bunch of buildings filled with people trying to sell stuff (or the fair prizes), a bunch of food vendors and carnival games, and occasional outdoor concerts. it really hasn't changed that much, except some of the builds are nicer now than they used to be, and some have definitely aged...

Just because the fair isn't the hottest hangout for the "cool kids" doesn't mean that the general public of OK and OKC don't enjoy it a great deal. We moan and groan on this board about a lot of things that most people frankly don't.

What on Earth do "cool kids" have to do with this discussion? The Fair was a great tradition for many families for years until it started getting torn apart. I will never forget one of the last years I attended was when the folks who sold Dilly Bars in the Made in Oklahoma building were talking with us about all the changes being made, and one lady behind the counter, in tears, said "Someone please get it out there what they're doing, because no one is listening to us." There's a reason the Fair draws *half* what it once did. There's a reason some of us held it out as unique and distinctive, and gripe to distraction as current leaders let it die from attrition, indifference, or plain old snobbery.

I'm glad someone thinks it's still nice. I remember when it was *great*, and it's descent was almost entirely self-imposed.

That's just it: if you don't care about *anything*, eventually there won't be anything to care *about*, because someone else will overtake it.

The usual post I've come to expect from Rover. Thank you for being consistent. "Just one more thing", do you have a specific hard-on for the fairgrounds or do you just measure the way the wind is going and then pee into it for funsies?

I want to avoid the personal stuff, but I can say it appears like there have been local leadership that seemed to be embarrassed by the image of the fair. Getting rid of the speedway, dismantling a lot of it's history, trying to "upgrade" it's image while adding new costs such as parking. Honestly, if someone was setting out to cause the fair to fail intentionally, I'm not sure how they could do it better.

I'm happy about the new expo center, and it's great for them to upgrade the arena. But I don't know... sometimes it feels like some folks involved are worried about a white trash or redneck image. It may just be my perception.

One of the things I miss about being up in Stillwater is going to the Payne county fair. There was no pretension there.

The fact that it shows up on some Internet clickbait "Top Xx Things In America" has exactly zero to do with the fact that the leadership of OKC has been dismantling the Fair one piece at a time for years. And griping about it publicly in a forum like this is the only place some "unconnected" folks like me have to put the issue out for discussion. The fairgrounds is a sad shell of what it used to be, and there's really not much debating that.
Agree 100%.

I want to avoid the personal stuff, but I can say it appears like there have been local leadership that seemed to be embarrassed by the image of the fair. Getting rid of the speedway, dismantling a lot of it's history, trying to "upgrade" it's image while adding new costs such as parking. Honestly, if someone was setting out to cause the fair to fail intentionally, I'm not sure how they could do it better.

I'm happy about the new expo center, and it's great for them to upgrade the arena. But I don't know... sometimes it feels like some folks involved are worried about a white trash or redneck image. It may just be my perception.

One of the things I miss about being up in Stillwater is going to the Payne county fair. There was no pretension there.

Unfortunately, it wasn't even a matter of appearances. It was purposeful policy. I'll never forget the *headline* in an article in the Oklahoman, stating "Fair seeks to escape its funnel cake and corndog image." The absolutely *WERE* embarrassed by it. They wanted to tear it up. And largely the same crowd who started that movement then are still in charge now, at least substantially of that same ethos. The broader populace of OKC was left entirely out of the equation.

OKC State Fair has 440 acres of prime land to development for the State Fairgrounds horse industry in OKC. While the State Fair Board Trust (SFBT) hoards its funds; look for them to get a project camouflaged in on future MAPS and Bond initiatives.

SFBT needs to be more transparent about their operations if they want voter support on any future MAPS and bond initiatives or you will see voter backlash.

Is there even anything us plebians can do to effect change with the State Fair of Oklahoma or the fairgrounds themselves?

OKC State Fair has 440 acres of prime land to development for the State Fairgrounds horse industry in OKC. While the State Fair Board Trust (SFBT) hoards its funds; look for them to get a project camouflaged in on future MAPS and Bond initiatives.

SFBT needs to be more transparent about their operations if they want voter support on any future MAPS and bond initiatives or you will see voter backlash.

I thought the financials were a hidden secret. Where is it shown they are hoarding funds, and how much? I thought this was the complaint about the board?

I thought the financials were a hidden secret. Where is it shown they are hoarding funds, and how much? I thought this was the complaint about the board?

What does the dishwasher do?

Many of us posters suspect they are a hidden secret unless you believe they don't have anything in the Oklahoma State Fair coffers; therefore why would you need to establish a trust for the State Fair with a board of directors. You're correct to ask how much, Mugofbeer? You can trust that they won't tell you anything.

The fact that it shows up on some Internet clickbait "Top Xx Things In America" has exactly zero to do with the fact that the leadership of OKC has been dismantling the Fair one piece at a time for years. And griping about it publicly in a forum like this is the only place some "unconnected" folks like me have to put the issue out for discussion. The fairgrounds is a sad shell of what it used to be, and there's really not much debating that.
It has to be fake news if you don’t agree with it , right?

Don’t go if you don’t think it is great enough for you. There are 100s of thousands that disagree with you though.

It has to be fake news if you don’t agree with it , right?

Don’t go if you don’t think it is great enough for you. There are 100s of thousands that disagree with you though.

I think we would be remiss if we discounted either side on this. Yes, obviously a lot of people go to the fair and enjoy it. HOWEVER, that does not mean that we shouldn't push the fair board to do better than they have.

The general State Fair hasn't changed in a long time and probably won't. As said, there are rides, food, building (of varying repair), people selling you junk you dont need (mops and knives anyone?), big stuffed animals, etc. That carnival aspect of the fair is part of the identity and probably won't ever change. And should it? I dont enjoy it myself, but my wife loves it. I go to be with her and the kids while they all have fun. I'm just along for the ride. The food is too greasy for my digestive tract, i hate the buildings with all the people crammed in there, and im not about to buy didly crap. BUT, hey i still go, again because the rest of my family DOES enjoy it.

And that being said, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make the fairgrounds better. Rover, what you'll see over and over again here is people wanting the GROUNDS improved. Move some of that narrow vision away from the agriculture shows and focus on getting better activity there the other 330 days of the year. We're not just talking the gun/knife shows/etc. Spruce the place up so its not so drab. Encourage some other types of construction on the grounds that attract year-round traffic. I dont particularly enjoy using the Dallas Fair as a model, but one thing you see there is several things to do besides just the carnival stuff. They have museums on the grounds for one thing. They kept their history there with Big Tex while we bulldozed (or let it deteriorate to where we had to close) ours. And we have a board that gets public money without having to be open about what they have and what they're doing with it.

So Rover, yeah i think we do still have a long way to go. Even if your polls put us at #1 right now, i think we could still do better. Raise the bar. Dont settle.