I guess they should go ahead and tear down the old WKY/OPUBCO pavilion too. It's a mid century piece of old fairgrounds architecture that is "cute", and no longer relevant to today's times.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4748144,-97.5726893,3a,90y,354.4h,106.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdUTGfYT4T168_OjU8VudYQ!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656

OKC sets the bar really, really LOW on what is considered iconic or even special. 13809 vs 13810

13811 vs 13812

Hmmm.

Anybody who thinks the OKC version is either iconic or special probably hasn't visited many other cities. Something that wasn't special in 1960 doesn't just get more special by rusting.

When I say iconic I mean for the fairgrounds. It wasn't a single thing such a the arch alone that made the fair special, it was everything else combined. That is what I meant.

It is iconic for the city to have a nice fair grounds like it did. Not a boring, bland one. I know the ones in SoCal I've been to aren't very special. I am not sure how other states compare. That one in Dallas is okay and has a few cool areas, but it is nowhere near as cool to the OKC fair I saw in the old pictures.

When I say iconic I mean for the fairgrounds. It wasn't a single thing such a the arch alone that made the fair special, it was everything else combined. That is what I meant.

It is iconic for the city to have a nice fair grounds like it did. Not a boring, bland one. I know the ones in SoCal I've been to aren't very special. I am not sure how other states compare. That one in Dallas is okay and has a few cool areas, but it is nowhere near as cool to the OKC fair I saw in the old pictures.

I agree with what cafeboeuf said about it being nostalgic, but I also agree with you in that the combined nostalgia of what was there was what made the fair so much fun, at least for me.

I am sorry, but the arch was far from iconic. Nor the needle or the skytram. They were novelties, but if you travel elsewhere and see true icons, you realize they are cute fairground chotchkies. They were neither iconic in style or in size. Perhaps they were nostalgic reminders of something cute in our own past, but hardly extraordinary in a broader context.

Respectfully but 1,000,000% disagree. These items were iconic as signature elements of a fairgrounds our current leadership is plowing down just as fast as they can. What supposed "broader context' is relevant if the whole point is to make the fair novel unto itself for the people and state it celebrates? Do I care if the people in, say, New York find something in our fair novel? Not a bit.

The tower, the monorail, the arch, were absolutely iconic to those of use who grew up here and enjoyed the fair as something distinctive. Maybe they didn't mean crap to *you*, and don't live up to *your* definition of "true icons" - and that's 100% your prerogative, but for a lot of people that's *exactly* what they were.

An upgrade/revisit of any of these structures would be welcome in my book.

OKC sets the bar really, really LOW on what is considered iconic or even special. 13809 vs 13810

13811 vs 13812

Hmmm.

Anybody who thinks the OKC version is either iconic or special probably hasn't visited many other cities. Something that wasn't special in 1960 doesn't just get more special by rusting.

I'm trying to be respectful of the differing opinion here, but its really difficult to avoid the idea that because *you* say our bar isn't as high as *you* think it should be, our standards therefore must be crap. I get sick to death of this kind of condescension. I couldn't care less if one person from one supposedly "more hip" city thought anything unique to us was special to *them*. But that's apparently the only standard to which we are allowed to aspire - it has to be as cool as what the "cool kids" think is cool. What a bunch of nonsense.

We had every opportunity to evolve and update the tower, the monorail, and keep them relevant. We plowed them under for more buildings and horse barns.

Well you know what they say about opinions....

I agree with what cafeboeuf said about it being nostalgic, but I also agree with you in that the combined nostalgia of what was there was what made the fair so much fun, at least for me.Yeah, I completely see both sides of the argument. I would love to see these things funded and brought back again but that would require probably around half a billion to bring everything back and the city could spend that money elsewhere right now that would be better.

I'd be happy if they just maintained what is there and established higher standards in general.

I ride my bike through there and for the tens of millions of recent tax dollars, the entire place is sad.

I'm trying to be respectful of the differing opinion here, but its really difficult to avoid the idea that because *you* say our bar isn't as high as *you* think it should be, our standards therefore must be crap. I get sick to death of this kind of condescension. I couldn't care less if one person from one supposedly "more hip" city thought anything unique to us was special to *them*. But that's apparently the only standard to which we are allowed to aspire - it has to be as cool as what the "cool kids" think is cool. What a bunch of nonsense.

We had every opportunity to evolve and update the tower, the monorail, and keep them relevant. We plowed them under for more buildings and horse barns.

It's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$, which is what drives most of our country now - if you can't show a big ROI, screw it, not worth doing.

The space tower & arch entrance by no means were intended to compete with Seattle-St. Louis any more than the casino replicas you see in Las Vegas or Thackerville.

Novelties like the Streetcar & a future Smithsonian caliber museum (AICCM) are ahead.

OKC's attractiveness will depend on what we invest; do we want a major icon? Major cities continue to build & invest; the return on investment (ROI) factor will be the cumulative investments to make OKC's future--attractive.

Relatives & friends come to OKC for a change of scenery; we have plenty of year round places (Bricktown, Plaza Arts, Paseo...), events & attractions to enjoy .

OKC ambassadorship begins with YOU!

^^^

I am sorry, but the arch was far from iconic. Nor the needle or the skytram. They were novelties, but if you travel elsewhere and see true icons, you realize they are cute fairground chotchkies. They were neither iconic in style or in size. Perhaps they were nostalgic reminders of something cute in our own past, but hardly extraordinary in a broader context.

Well, you may not like them, but Joanie loves chotchkies.

Well, you may not like them, but Joanie loves chotchkies.

I needed that this morning.... thank you.

(but then I think about Erin Moran and am now depressed)....

There's nothing at all wrong with kitschy little attractions in a city. Not everything is going to be the Space Needle or the Gateway Arch. Having a collection of cool little retro pieces in the fairgrounds helped define that space. For a lot of people, the arch and the needle and the grandstands were what made the fair a fun place to go. So while "iconic" might be the wrong word, they were essential pieces that are now missing.

I'm glad that the fair is doing better financially now. All those horse barns clearly bring in money. But the vast majority of people who live in the city and visit the fair every year don't go for the horse shows. I think the Board of Directors need to understand that the fairgrounds are a shared public space. It's one of the places where we gather as a community. Rather than just adding event halls and letting the rest of the place fall apart, we need structures and attractions that inspire us.

We need to be inspired by our FAIRGROUNDS? Maybe it is just me, but I have never been to a city and have anyone ever say "you need to go by and see our fairgrounds...it is sooooo coool!". Do a quick Google picture search of fairgrounds and nothing inspirational comes up. I could be wrong, but most fairgrounds seem to be pretty functional and not great urban neighborhoods. The ICONs most cities have invested in are not at fairgrounds. If I am wrong, please show me.

I do agree with Pete, ours is pretty blah. How many steel buildings can we tolerate in this city...fairgrounds or anywhere else.

If everyone didn't insist on the new soccer stadium/complex be in downtown, the fairgrounds might be well served to promote it there. Lots of spare land, lots of parking, and at the junction of highways. It would give another reason for the grounds to exist other than for horses and high school tournaments.

So what is the fairgrounds doing on the NW10th and May side near the street?

It Looks like a large walkway that a car or 4 wheeler could drive on>

So what is the fairgrounds doing on the NW10th and May side near the street?

It Looks like a large walkway that a car or 4 wheeler could drive on>

It's the Will Rogers Bike Trail, that is part of MAPS 3.

When complete, it will go all the way from Lake Hefner to the river, and tie into the river trails just off of May to the south of the fairgrounds.

I hope people don't park on it during the fair

We need to be inspired by our FAIRGROUNDS? Maybe it is just me, but I have never been to a city and have anyone ever say "you need to go by and see our fairgrounds...it is sooooo coool!". Do a quick Google picture search of fairgrounds and nothing inspirational comes up. I could be wrong, but most fairgrounds seem to be pretty functional and not great urban neighborhoods. The ICONs most cities have invested in are not at fairgrounds. If I am wrong, please show me.

I do agree with Pete, ours is pretty blah. How many steel buildings can we tolerate in this city...fairgrounds or anywhere else.

If everyone didn't insist on the new soccer stadium/complex be in downtown, the fairgrounds might be well served to promote it there. Lots of spare land, lots of parking, and at the junction of highways. It would give another reason for the grounds to exist other than for horses and high school tournaments.

Blame the recent (say, last 10-15 years or so) for plowing down the buildings, tearing up the flowers, destroying the plazas, plugging the fountains, and basically razing and ripping down just about everything else that did, in fact, make the fairgrounds distinctive in its own way. We couldn't have done a better job with mortars.

In case you've seen the construction from the freeway, it's for an RV park as part of the fairgrounds.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fairgrounds070517.jpg

The rumors have been revealed to be true. Events at the fairground, which have already been fleeing in search of other venues, will now do so in greater number.

http://newsok.com/fairgrounds-to-charge-parking-fee-at-future-ossaa-events/article/5569643

On the one hand, I'm fine with it because they'll make serious bank on the almost-weekly gun and knife shows alone. On the other hand, the Friends of the Library has already been looking for either a different place to hold the annual book sale, or a different way of holding it. Super! BitCon has already said they won't be back at the fairgrounds. One is left to wonder if this fee will offset the number of event holders who now will not consider holding their event at the fairgrounds.

Ugh.

If the fairgrounds is going to start charging for parking on their lots, then it's time to crack down on letting people park on the grass and unpaved areas for various events, especially around the fair itself. It's completely illegal to do so.

If they make parking have a cost, then i definitely wont attend events there. Way to go, you just ensured that you are going to lose events. Idiots. This isn't downtown, it's the sprawling surface lot land that is the fairgrounds. Charging for parking there is just crazy.

Why is it that we have so many who want the city, state, fed to upgrade everything yet want it for free? No taxes, no fees. Maybe if we proved we can afford a buck or two maybe there would be a little more commitment to upgrading facilities, including parking areas.

Why is it that we have so many who want the city, state, fed to upgrade everything yet want it for free? No taxes, no fees. Maybe if we proved we can afford a buck or two maybe there would be a little more commitment to upgrading facilities, including parking areas.

They have received almost $100 million from taxpayers through MAPS all in the name of generating more future revenue and economic development.

In MAPS 3, $4.5 million (!) was spent on parking alone.

Yet, at every turn, they want more money from taxpayers as they are already ramping up for a new arena, etc.

How does this compare to other state fairgrounds. I seem to remember you hae to pay at Texas State Fair in Dallas. I know you do in Malibu. Seems fair to pay in OKC too. I support this.

They have received almost $100 million from taxpayers through MAPS all in the name of generating more future revenue and economic development.

In MAPS 3, $4.5 million (!) was spent on parking alone.

Yet, at every turn, they want more money from taxpayers as they are already ramping up for a new arena, etc.
Paying for parking is normal everywhere.
Yes Maps passed and helps us get to almost where other cities have been.

Paying for parking outside of downtown in OKC is nearly unheard of.

Paying for parking outside of downtown in OKC is nearly unheard of.

How long do you think that is going to last for? As I’m sure you know, it’s relatively easy to get free parking in LA for almost anywhere outside of DTLA as long as you validate. Even new places in LA have free parking for an hour if you validate.

Given how much the city already feeds into the fairgrounds, i just can't see why they are being "forced" into this. They are making a conscious decision to do this....dont look at it in any other way, they just want more cash flow. Never mind that we've paid millions upon millions to get them barn after barn for all those damned horses. They could easily take an extra dollar for entrance fees and no one would be the wiser. Like with airplanes, throw it in the ticket and you dont really notice, throw it on as an extra fee and the public goes crazy. It's all about how you present it, and this one is a fail.

People in OKC do not want to pay to park. We understand it downtown, as Pete said, because its a urban squeezed world where you have to go vertical to fit it all. The fairgrounds does not have that problem. If they think people are going to happily cough up $5 to park for the train show with their kids, think again.

Charge for those R.V. hookups. It makes sense since we're providing a service that requires maintenance. But parking? Hell, it didn't bother them when the lots had potholes the size of Texas. They eventually mixed the repairs in with the Expo hall (which i still think is a failed design...one entrance and using columns instead of being able to have a fully open floor). So explain what the need to collect that fee is now that the lots have been repaired?

If you want a good comparison, check out the number of people that pay to park at the actual Fair compared to the grass lot folks. I'd rather walk another 1/4 mile than pay and it looks like the majority feel that way. So why not use that approach? Rope of sections nearest the building as pay parking and let the next lot out be free like always. Make it flexible so we dont have structures to maintain either...ie parking booths.

I have a feeling the city will also be a lot less likely to support any more Maps/Bond projects if they pursue this. The fairgrounds seem to be like Oliver Twist...."please sir can i have some more".

Why is it that we have so many who want the city, state, fed to upgrade everything yet want it for free? No taxes, no fees. Maybe if we proved we can afford a buck or two maybe there would be a little more commitment to upgrading facilities, including parking areas.

And why is it that anyone who expresses opposition to a fee or tax is implicitly some sort of social parasite who wants some thing for "free?" Last time I checked, MAPS wasn't funded by some generous benefactor, but by taxpayers who will now get the privilege of paying to park at a place they've paid for...parasites!

I will also add the fairgrounds added acres and acres of parking funded by taxpayers through MAPS 3 and then got an exception from city codes to completely forgo any trees or landscaping.

This is a real hot button for me... It's absolutely hideous. And now they want to charge people for something already paid for by tax dollars?

Look at this ocean of parking without a single tree or shrub. They also cut all the landscaping from the Expo building project.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fairparking.jpg

A tree takes up a valuable $5 spot, why are you so anti-capitalism?

I think if you have an OKC address on your Driv. Lic parking should be free.

Apparently there's something they want to build at Fair Park besides the new arena. Probably something that voters wouldn't approve thru MAPS or Go-bonds. They want to have a huge nest egg to fund these particular projects in addition to maintaining some capital for operations . Notice that an emphasis has been put on parking inside the Core & Fair Park.

OKC voters are fed up with funding Fair Park through MAPS; this is one of the reasons why you didn't see the new State Fair Arena on the September 12 General Obligation Bonds initiative or on the MAPS III two year extension vote to fund safety (Police & Fire).

I noticed going to work the other day, they seem to be disassembling the sign on the west side near the highway. Tearing out yet another inconvenient part?

So Oklahoma city has a nice new stock yards facility. That is all that the fairgrounds have become is a morass of endless barns and empty space. Well done Oklahoma city, well done.

And why is it that anyone who expresses opposition to a fee or tax is implicitly some sort of social parasite who wants some thing for "free?" Last time I checked, MAPS wasn't funded by some generous benefactor, but by taxpayers who will now get the privilege of paying to park at a place they've paid for...parasites!

We aren't parasites, but we are cheap.

I will also add the fairgrounds added acres and acres of parking funded by taxpayers through MAPS 3 and then got an exception from city codes to completely forgo any trees or landscaping.

This is a real hot button for me... It's absolutely hideous. And now they want to charge people for something already paid for by tax dollars?

Look at this ocean of parking without a single tree or shrub. They also cut all the landscaping from the Expo building project.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fairparking.jpg

Pete, you know that if we tried to actually pay to have all the nice amenities we wouldn't get things funded. We like big and cheap as opposed to smaller and nicer. Drive around OKC and you will see that in many, many neighborhoods landscaping is totally optional. Oklahoma has always had a very utilitarian mindset. People hate to pay for art (especially public art), landscaping, ornamentation, etc. We make it big and useful, but aesthetics has always been optional.

Our public entities will make aesthetics a priority if our private self does too. Til anyone but a few people give a darn, then why expect our leadership to?

Pete, you know that if we tried to actually pay to have all the nice amenities we wouldn't get things funded. We like big and cheap as opposed to smaller and nicer. Drive around OKC and you will see that in many, many neighborhoods landscaping is totally optional. Oklahoma has always had a very utilitarian mindset. People hate to pay for art (especially public art), landscaping, ornamentation, etc. We make it big and useful, but aesthetics has always been optional.

Our public entities will make aesthetics a priority if our private self does too. Til anyone but a few people give a darn, then why expect our leadership to?

Through MAPS, taxpayers have poured tens of millions into the fairgrounds.

They also get the majority of all hotel taxes collected by the City.

They get TONS of money from taxpayers already and are getting ready to ask us to pay for a new arena.

And what do we get in return? Getting charged for parking we already paid for? Non existent landscaping? Allowing people to park in the grass and dirt against City ordinances?

I ride my bike through there and the whole place is borderline embarrassing. I seriously question how this entire facility is being managed and where all the revenues it generates are being spent.

BTW, Oklahoma State Fair, Inc. manages the City-owned State Fair Park and all its dealings but is NOT a City-run entity, it's a private 501(c)3 corporation.

That means they do not have to abide by open meetings laws, make its agendas and minutes public, etc.

I have to say, I do not understand this whole parasite attitude. As Pete has attempted to explain but people seem not to be listening, WE HAVE ALREADY PAID. Then when an event rents the venue, they PAY AGAIN. This whole 'parasite' mindset is exactly what led to ISPs charging for internet access, then charging again if you were so rude as to actually use what you already paid for. Serious question time, are you 'parasite people' fine with that, too? Are you fine if you buy an airline ticket, and then are asked to cough up more money if you actually sit in the seat? You're fine with converting all public roads into toll roads, right? If you rent an apartment, you're fine with a fee every time you go in/out the door, too? Or maybe you own your house, totally paid off, but you have to rent the walls, that's cool with you? Where does the 'parasite' accusation end and reality start?

Bought a pizza for lunch. May I have your permission to eat it now or do I need to open my wallet again first?

The one thing i would say about the large surface area lots Pete is that the area serves as the fairway and having trees dotted around in it would break up the contiguous lot, making placement of items for the fair, more difficult.

But i'm otherwise 1000000% with you. We already paid for this? Why are we being asked to be double taxed? Anyone know of a way to voice public outcry on this? Who should it go to?

The one thing i would say about the large surface area lots Pete is that the area serves as the fairway and having trees dotted around in it would break up the contiguous lot, making placement of items for the fair, more difficult.

But i'm otherwise 1000000% with you. We already paid for this? Why are we being asked to be double taxed? Anyone know of a way to voice public outcry on this? Who should it go to?

I understand this but they could easily plant around the perimeter and that was what was shown in all the renderings and now there is nothing at all. It's hideous.

I guess that goes with the other statement about how OKC folks tend to be utilitarian. I think i would agree that the opinion of the masses sway that way, but i think the younger folks appreciate the need to not have everything so cold. When the skydance bridge opened, i remember thinking how awesome it was and how it would be a great piece of public art that everyone passing through would see and think about OKC. Then i went to work to talk to people and the older folks all had the same curmudgeon thoughts..."what a waste of money", "they could have built something with that money", "what a horrible mis-use of money". I just couldn't understand their thought process. But it's been that way in OKC for most of their adult life. Think about from the Pei days on.....when did we finally start thinking outside the brutalist post-modern concrete bubble? The Myriad was a great example of how you can build something with absolutely zero thought to architecture being a work of art.

All of that to say, i understand why they did it, but like you, i agree that we could have done something to help break it up better. Like i've said before, from a simple rainwater standpoint, it's not good to have that much unbroken concrete. BUUUUT, i guess if you do plant something, that means you need someone to maintain it so it doesn't get overgrown and look like crap. Hell, they have enough horse poop there to fertilize the whole city so they should be able to grow mega plants on top of concrete there, right?

I don’t care to wade too deep into this topic, but will remind anyone who would choose to listen that - despite having paid to build the facilities - we don’t see concerts and basketball games for free at Chesapeake Arena, we don’t see baseball games for free at the ballpark, we pay for metered parking on public streets downtown, we pay to raft (and park) at the whitewater facility, we pay to see shows at the Civic Center, there is an admission price for boat rides on the canal, there is a fare box on buses (and apparently there will be one on streetcars), there is a gate admission at the zoo, there’s one at the Crystal Bridge, and on, and on, and on.

My point is that building something isn’t the end of it. Public facilities require upkeep and they require operational expense. How the City manages this is the responsibility of elected and appointed officials, plus hired staff who are (hopefully) experts in their respective fields. In this case those people apparently believed paid parking made the most sense in an effort to cover their costs. I suppose time will tell.

It’s also important to recall that a huge number of fairgrounds visitors - perhaps the majority..? - are from outside of OKC. Getting visitors to help pay for our own facilities is pretty good strategy, if you ask me.

As far as exemption from landscaping standards, not a huge fan of that. The City generally holds itself to its own design standards when building in design districts and overlays downtown; not sure why that shouldn’t extend to elsewhere in the community.

I don’t care to wade too deep into this topic, but will remind anyone who would choose to listen that - despite having paid to build the facilities - we don’t see concerts and basketball games for free at Chesapeake Arena, we don’t see baseball games for free at the ballpark, we pay for metered parking on public streets downtown, we pay to raft (and park) at the whitewater facility, we pay to see shows at the Civic Center, there is an admission price for boat rides on the canal, there is a fare box on buses (and apparently there will be one on streetcars), there is a gate admission at the zoo, there’s one at the Crystal Bridge, and on, and on, and on.

My point is that building something isn’t the end of it. Public facilities require upkeep and they require operational expense. How the City manages this is the responsibility of elected and appointed officials, plus hired staff who are (hopefully) experts in their respective fields. In this case those people apparently believed paid parking made the most sense in an effort to cover their costs. I suppose time will tell.

It’s also important to recall that a huge number of fairgrounds visitors - perhaps the majority..? - are from outside of OKC. Getting visitors to help pay for our own facilities is pretty good strategy, if you ask me.

As far as exemption from landscaping standards, not a huge fan of that. The City generally holds itself to its own design standards when building in design districts and overlays downtown; not sure why that shouldn’t extend to elsewhere in the community.

Don’t bring logic and common sense to an internet argument.

I don’t care to wade too deep into this topic, but will remind anyone who would choose to listen that - despite having paid to build the facilities - we don’t see concerts and basketball games for free at Chesapeake Arena, we don’t see baseball games for free at the ballpark, we pay for metered parking on public streets downtown, we pay to raft (and park) at the whitewater facility, we pay to see shows at the Civic Center, there is an admission price for boat rides on the canal, there is a fare box on buses (and apparently there will be one on streetcars), there is a gate admission at the zoo, there’s one at the Crystal Bridge, and on, and on, and on.

My point is that building something isn’t the end of it. Public facilities require upkeep and they require operational expense. How the City manages this is the responsibility of elected and appointed officials, plus hired staff who are (hopefully) experts in their respective fields. In this case those people apparently believed paid parking made the most sense in an effort to cover their costs. I suppose time will tell.

It’s also important to recall that a huge number of fairgrounds visitors - perhaps the majority..? - are from outside of OKC. Getting visitors to help pay for our own facilities is pretty good strategy, if you ask me.

As far as exemption from landscaping standards, not a huge fan of that. The City generally holds itself to its own design standards when building in design districts and overlays downtown; not sure why that shouldn’t extend to elsewhere in the community.

We are talking about the parking in particular, how it was paid for by MAPS tax dollars years ago and how the fairgrounds suddenly wants to charge for its use when that is virtually unheard of outside of downtown.

Not at all talking about getting into events free, where the revenues in large part go to those teams/promoters/groups making the events possible.


And I will also restate: the fairgrounds are owned by the city but managed by a group who operates independently and who does not have to make its meetings, minutes and finances public. It's a very unique situation and when things like this come up, it seems the public deserves representation and answers, and that does not happen here.

It's a very strange situation given not only city ownership but the fact that a huge amount of (hotel) taxes flow into this organization and the public doesn't have much understanding and zero say on how those dollars are spent.

6/11 of all room taxes goes directly to the fairgrounds.

We are talking about the parking in particular, how it was paid for by MAPS tax dollars years ago and how the fairgrounds suddenly wants to charge for its use when that is virtually unheard of outside of downtown.

Not at all talking about getting into events free, where the revenues in large part go to those teams/promoters/groups making the events possible.


And I will also restate: the fairgrounds are owned by the city but managed by a group who operates independently and who does not have to make its meetings, minutes and finances public. It's a very unique situation and when things like this come up, it seems the public deserves representation and answers, and that does not happen here.

It's a very strange situation given not only city ownership but the fact that a huge amount of (hotel) taxes flow into this organization and the public doesn't have much understanding and zero say on how those dollars are spent.

6/11 of all room taxes goes directly to the fairgrounds.

"Don’t bring logic and common sense to an internet argument." Not to mention objectively verifiable facts.

Concerned with the operations of the OKC State Fairgrounds. We built and renovated many structures prior to MAPS; we get a lot of out-of-state dollars pumped into the local economy as a result of the barns & horse related venues--glad they continued with the upgrades.

Has the State Fair Trust budget built any new structures with money from their budget?

We've lost many iconic structures (Grand Stands, Monorail, Space Tower, Arch) with no replacements.


https://1hot232auzt92bvagu19zybt-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/new-arena-e1472654738208.jpg https://populous.com/wp-content/uploads/Entry-Lobby-01-310x262.jpg
The replacement for the State Fair Arena has been mentioned with temporary placebo designs, where is the money; are they waiting on taxpayers to fund the new arena?

Glad it wasn't on the September '17 Go Bonds & MAPS III 1/4 cent permanent (Public safety) extension. Will future MAPS initiatives be 3/4 cents?

If the State Fair Park is a "private 501(c) corp, yet owned by the city, what we have is no different than say football stadiums. The taxpayers fund lavish accommodations and private entities garner all the profits. That is problematic, especially given that the aims of those in charge seem to have been at odds with the primary users of the facilities since the early 1970's.

This needs to end. There needs to be accountability, especially as public tax dollars have and continue to support the debacle.

I don't have a problem with taxpayers funding stuff. The Thunder make money, but they also pay rent to the city for the use of the stadium we paid for. And there is tangible benefits to drawing people to watch events there.

The main issue doesn't seem to be there these things exist, it's their existence without accountability and transparency that's the issue.

They are also gearing up for a push for more taxpayer dollars for a new arena.

They are also gearing up for a push for more taxpayer dollars for a new arena.

State Fair Arena or a replacement for the Peake?

An arena, pictured above

We are talking about the parking in particular, how it was paid for by MAPS tax dollars years ago and how the fairgrounds suddenly wants to charge for its use when that is virtually unheard of outside of downtown...Oklahoma City.
Fixed. Paid parking exists at facilities of this type all over the United States.

Fixed. Paid parking exists at facilities of this type all over the United States.

If you want to do a real analysis of places where tax payers already paid for the parking, then you'll have a valid point.

^^^^^^^^
Well, I suppose you could start with the grounds of the State Fair of Texas - which is by the way also operated by a 591(c)(3) - and which charges a flat rate of $15 per space for all fairgrounds-owned lots. Or maybe the American Airlines Center at Victory Park, which was paid for by taxes and which charges for every lot/garage they own, including as much as $50 per space for lots close to the facility.

Both of which are in highly dense urban areas in a metroplex 5X the size of OKC and the 4th largest in the U.S.

BTW, don't really think you want to hold up fair park in Dallas as good comparison to what we have.

Theirs is full of fountains and landscaping and pretty buildings and a glorious music hall and amphitheater.

The whole source of my frustration is that tons of tax dollars and other revenues keep pouring in at 10th & May and all we have to show for it are a handful of completely bare-bones buildings, a bunch of ugly old ones, horse barns, RV parking, badly maintained grounds, dirt parking and acres of new concrete without a single tree and shrub.

I ride by bike through there frequently and it's shockingly bad.


I want to know where all these tax dollars are going and why a group which receives hundreds of millions from citizens has no accountability to the public.