How much barn space can the fairgrounds even hold before we reach barn saturation?

Why not? Dickies Arena is incredible. Fort Worth didn't spare any expense on it - it looks incredible.

based on earlier statements I was expecting that it was a quality build. but after seeing it and the level of detail that went into it I was truly impressed. that's all.

Comparing those 2 arena's, we either need to get back to the drawing board and up our game for an arena, or figure out what we can do with 2 dozen empty horse barns when they head to FTW
.....

Uggh, the Fort Worth Arena: The real life incarnation of Albert Speer and Hitler's Volkshalle. Why in the h would we want to copy something from TX, and furthermore something that resembles such far right wing political ideals?

I don't like the Dickies Arena, personally. Just seems kinda bland to me. I don't hate it, either. Just not a huge fan. Maybe it is the brick color. I think the OK fairgrounds could use a new arena, but I hope they don't mimic this arena.

Dickies arena is for the Fort Worth rodeo. And for major events (think Chesapeake arena type shows). The horse shows are not moving to that building. The AAC basketball tourney is going there for at least a year The stock show is staying at the memorial center.

At a cost of half a billion dollars

Looking at the Ft. Worth arena makes me like the OKC design more. Now, what do who we want sell the naming rights to? Ditch-Witch?

I'm still trying to figure out how a 14,000 seat arena is $540 million dollars.

As a side note, when I saw the name Dickies Arena I honestly thought, "Why would they name an arena after a second- or third-rate BBQ chain?" (please be advised: I haven't personally tried Dickies BBQ in either the closed French Mart Mall location or the new location on north May and therefore apologize for accepting other peoples' observations of the quality. I've also never owned any Dickies work clothes.)

Looking at the Ft. Worth arena makes me like the OKC design more. Now, what do who we want sell the naming rights to? Ditch-Witch? If we are selling rights to Ditch-Witch it needs to be a DOME... Ditch-Witch Dome has a nice ring to it..lol

OKC only needs to spend less than $250 in a venue downtown or at State Fair Park to lock in these horse shows. Get a sponsor to chip in another $30 million (10%); we should be set.

Maybe it's time for a mini multi-use 30,000 to 50,000 seat dome. Build it downtown or State Fair Park. Build something similar to the Syracuse Carrier Dome.

You could use it for American football & basketball like the state high school football & basketball playoffs, soccer specific stadium, horse shows (hide or sealed off upper deck seats not needed), large concerts, track & field, bid on the NCAA Final Four...

The Syracuse Carrier Dome built in 1980 initially cost $26 million. OKC could build a better or similar venue today for $260 million - $300 million. Get a sponsor like Express Personnel (Funks) to chip in 10% for naming-rights & free rent.

Best time is now to do a study on a facility capable of use to address a number of events.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dickies2.jpg

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/n5e2y/picture76689897/alternates/FREE_768/Will%20Rogers%202009
Dixie's Arena (top pic) was designed to complement the Will Rogers Coliseum Complex (bottom pic). Beautiful design, fits well with the buildings that exist on the complex.

Uggh, the Fort Worth Arena: The real life incarnation of Albert Speer and Hitler's Volkshalle. Why in the h would we want to copy something from TX, and furthermore something that resembles such far right wing political ideals?

You ok bro?

He's been watching too much Man in the High Castle.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dickies2.jpg

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/n5e2y/picture76689897/alternates/FREE_768/Will%20Rogers%202009
Dixie's Arena (top pic) was designed to complement the Will Rogers Coliseum Complex (bottom pic). Beautiful design, fits well with the buildings that exist on the complex.

They're also building structured parking in this area (since many surface lots are being removed) to service all of the nearby museums and obviously the new Arena. The great thing about this area is that there are many different types of activities that keep the neighborhood quite busy most of the year....several art and history museums, will Rogers center, West 7th district, botanical gardens, etc.

If we are selling rights to Ditch-Witch it needs to be a DOME... Ditch-Witch Dome has a nice ring to it..lol

That sound like a Canadian joke.

Looks like demo started today. 14999

I don’t even care anymore. OKC has become such a joke in regards to preservation.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaceneedle110918a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaceneedle110918b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaceneedle110918c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaceneedle110818b.jpg

^ There's a lot of irony in the first photo. What was and is being removed in the foreground while what it has become looks on from the background. Lots of scorched earth around the old WKY pavilion and observation tower. Any bets that it will next on the chopping block?

Funny story about what they have demolished here. Last weekend I had the opportunity to attend the Nascar race down in Dallas. I've never been. It was actually quite awesome. I encourage everyone to go at least once. But that's beside the point. I was fortunate enough to get to meet a driver and his entire team, managers, and pit crew. Got to hang out in the garage/pit area and talk to them. When I mentioned to them all that I was from OKC, they ALL started talking about how much it sucked we got rid of our Racetrack here. They all seemed t love it and had fond memories of it. ALL of them said they had raced there numerous times.

Now, I'm 30. I'm old enough to remember it, even saw a race there once. But not old enough to have appreciated it. With all the talks of trying to be big league, we've torn down so many neat things at the Fairgrounds, including a Racetrack that probably cold have used some TLC by was very cool and unique.

Anyway, point being, I hate our current Fairgrounds. Going to almost any other state fair is still a unique experience. In OKC it just sucks now.

This is sad on so many levels. Look at that first picture...our "Fair"grounds is nothing more than acres of asphalt and metal buildings. Concerning the old WKY pavilion, there are some fairgrounds where all the major affiliates have permanent buildings they broadcast from during the fair.

basically we can move the fair to any flat lot in the city like any old carnival at this point.

OKC takes one step closer to its vision to be the City without a History. Shameful.

Funny story about what they have demolished here. Last weekend I had the opportunity to attend the Nascar race down in Dallas. I've never been. It was actually quite awesome. I encourage everyone to go at least once. But that's beside the point. I was fortunate enough to get to meet a driver and his entire team, managers, and pit crew. Got to hang out in the garage/pit area and talk to them. When I mentioned to them all that I was from OKC, they ALL started talking about how much it sucked we got rid of our Racetrack here. They all seemed t love it and had fond memories of it. ALL of them said they had raced there numerous times.

Now, I'm 30. I'm old enough to remember it, even saw a race there once. But not old enough to have appreciated it. With all the talks of trying to be big league, we've torn down so many neat things at the Fairgrounds, including a Racetrack that probably cold have used some TLC by was very cool and unique.

Anyway, point being, I hate our current Fairgrounds. Going to almost any other state fair is still a unique experience. In OKC it just sucks now.

My sentiments exactly. I know a law of Outlaw racers and they loved using that track.

My sentiments exactly. I know a law of Outlaw racers and they loved using that track.It was well known as one of the best dirt tracks in the country. The WOO half mile, one lap time trial record was on the OKC track for years. Drivers loved our track.

Perhaps they could install the James Cotter statue in place of the Space Needle. He IS sitting on his horse, and it's all about horses now, isn't it ??

It was well known as one of the best dirt tracks in the country. The WOO half mile, one lap time trial record was on the OKC track for years. Drivers loved our track.

Absolutely! We had one of the fastest back straights in the nation. Spent many a Friday night there. Both as a spectator and an employee.

Not everything that's gone from the Fairgrounds is gone forever. You may remember a WWII C-47 troop transport that was one of a few airplanes on static display. They were removed, and the C-47 went to a local vo-tech where it sat for a decade. The Oklahoma History Center raised funds, purchased it, had the exterior beautifully restored, and this morning dedicated it at Joe B. Barnes Park in MWC, not far from where it was built at Tinker in March 1944. Wouldn't it be great if the State Fair would give the finial to the OHC for preservation and display? 15006

^ That is awesome. Whenever I drove by that old plane I would hope some day it would get the attention it deserves. To add to this good news,
IIRC that is a C-47C, which is believed to be the last remaining example in existance.

Not everything that's gone from the Fairgrounds is gone forever. You may remember a WWII C-47 troop transport that was one of a few airplanes on static display. They were removed, and the C-47 went to a local vo-tech where it sat for a decade. The Oklahoma History Center raised funds, purchased it, had the exterior beautifully restored, and this morning dedicated it at Joe B. Barnes Park in MWC, not far from where it was built at Tinker in March 1944. Wouldn't it be great if the State Fair would give the finial to the OHC for preservation and display? 15006

Not everything, sure, but a good majority of it is. The territorial Goodholm Mansion, originally located at NE 4th and Walnut before it was moved to the Fairgrounds, now sits on the private lot of the house moving company it was sold to, out near Choctaw. The B-52 was shipped out to Palmdale, California; aside from the C-47, the other aircraft were scattered to the winds. All but one of the monorail trains were sold off to buyers unknown. The Titan I missile, Air Force serial number 61-4506, on display where the Travel & Transportation Building courtyard used to be, is unaccounted for. The Spirit of '76 / Independence Arch, gone and unaccounted for. The clock tower at the Travel & Transportation building, gone and unaccounted for. And who knows what's going to happen with the Arrows to Atoms Space Tower. The Fair Board says they want to put something in it's place... I have zero confidence in the Fair Board after their track record with the loss of other iconic structures that weren't replaced.

EDIT: I wanted to add that yes, it IS a good thing that the C-47 was saved and restored locally. I was wondering exactly what it's final deposition was - I knew it'd been sold to MetroTech and then there were efforts to get it moved to MWC, but I hadn't heard exactly where it ended up. Also, Santa Fe #643, that was in the Travel & Transportation Building courtyard, was cosmetically restored and placed on permanent public display, over at the Oklahoma Railway Museum.

How on earth could *no one* have *any* accountability for those items (arch, clock, etc)?

I do recall that the DAR raised funds to pay for the repairs to the Goodholm mansion, but the funds just weren't there to perform all the repairs that were needed. As I understood it, the top floor was never substantially touched and never opened. They restored as much as they could with the funds they had, but there came a time when the building was literally falling apart faster than they could raise funds to repair it. They sold it off and moved it as noted above.

I remember hearing about the Goodholm mansion needing lots of work and was in a sad state of repair, but it somehow miraculously survived the move to the far eastern part of the county, where it remains today.

I’d suggest that that Oklahoma History Center is perhaps the best entity for these items. On a case-by-case basis they would consider terms for the acceptance, funding, preservation and final disposition of items. That is one of the things they do, and do well.

After reading this thread I wondered if the Goodholm mansion was the same beautiful home that sits out east on 23rd. Sure enough! Plus, not only was it moved, this was its second move. So the move to the Fairgrounds was actually the first time it was moved. Posted an interesting link.

http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMKM0J_Goodholm_House_Oklahoma_City_OK

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaceneedle111118a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaceneedle111118b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaceneedle111118c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaceneedle111118d.jpg

Nice shots of the Oklahoma Equestrian Park.

Wow looking at the pics,it's clear that the "fair" has morphed into a giant livestock/horse facility. Now there is nothing wrong with that type of place but the "fair" aspect has been destroyed. I for one would not be in favor of building a new arena, at least not there. Plus I want the fair board to open up their books, after all it is taxpayer funded. If they have a five or ten year vision I would like to hear it.

It would be cool to repurpose the passenger cabin into some other use like a small ice cream, snow cone stand, or small grill & bar, with the service area in the center where the column was. I'd hate to see it end up on the scrap pile as well.

It would be cool to repurpose the passenger cabin into some other use like a small ice cream, snow cone stand, or small grill & bar, with the service area in the center where the column was. I'd hate to see it end up on the scrap pile as well.I love this idea!

It would be cool to repurpose the passenger cabin into some other use like a small ice cream, snow cone stand, or small grill & bar, with the service area in the center where the column was. I'd hate to see it end up on the scrap pile as well.

I like that idea also, maybe state fair park will meet us half way and make a round horse feed or watering trough out if it.

Fairgrounds needs to now fund their own arena instead of always trying to feed off Maps. We've done ENOUGH capital projects for them to go squander away the soul of the fairgrounds experience.

I suspect that if they show up on Maps it might be the first to fail - they have no oversight yet look at what they've done. .. No more blank checks for the Jokelahoma State Fair.

We are fair people and my family has had season passes for as long as I can remember them offering them. We usually go 5-7 times each year. We shut my office down each year for one day and we have staff bonding at the fair. That being said....both my wife and I commented this year how bad the fair has gotten. Much smaller and we noticed that a lot of the regular booths were not back. Not sure if they raised the sq footage rental price again but it seemed like the same shrinkage as when they did a major price hike several years ago. It looked like they also raised the entrance fee this last year for patrons.

They are slowly killing off the fair each year.

We are fair people and my family has had season passes for as long as I can remember them offering them. We usually go 5-7 times each year. We shut my office down each year for one day and we have staff bonding at the fair. That being said....both my wife and I commented this year how bad the fair has gotten. Much smaller and we noticed that a lot of the regular booths were not back. Not sure if they raised the sq footage rental price again but it seemed like the same shrinkage as when they did a major price hike several years ago. It looked like they also raised the entrance fee this last year for patrons.

They are slowly killing off the fair each year.

I agree. My wife has competed in the baking, other than that I wouldn't have cared to go. We too think it's gotten pretty bad.

The future of state fairs is being debated all over the country. Many are perennial money losers and some states are cutting budgets. Heck, Michigan cut its state fair after 160 years of operation. Others are doubling down though, like Wisconsin and Minnesota. It is time there is a serious discussion about the future of the state fair in Oklahoma and what the citizens want to invest.

^^ Good insightful post. While many pine for the good ol days, nostalgia can cloud better judgement. Times are changing and have changed. This is another example of changing demographics of fewer people, especially younger educated people living and working in rural areas versus urban/suburban. I have 3 daughters in the metro with 8 kids between them. None of them have been in years. I don't believe those born post 1970 can relate to what a State Fair offers. A study should be commissioned to see what the tax payers want out there. The stadium out there idea should warrant consideration.

I would only vote for a new arena if it had ice making equipment, for minor league hockey. Not just a horse barn.

Put another barn where the space needle is. :rolleyes:

No more horse barns.

If state fairs are losing money; then that means the OKC State Fair wouldn't have as robust of a budget that many of us believe otherwise.

Someone mentioned a new arena shouldn't be built at State Fair Park. What about Stockyards City; wouldn't it be close enough to benefit from the barns and venues at State Fair Park. A new arena at Stockyards City IMO would bring more development and restaurants to enrich that unique area.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Jr2RKq4OY

State Fair Board's transparency would clear up a lot of this; therefore we could work quickly on a new arena or alternate location or did I miss something.

Don't think we will need a venue as expensive as FW Dixie's Arena to retain the horse shows at State Fair Arena.

Would love to hear your comments...

If state fairs are losing money; then that means the OKC State Fair wouldn't have as robust of a budget that many of us believe otherwise.

Someone mentioned a new arena shouldn't be built at State Fair Park. What about Stockyards City; wouldn't it be close enough to benefit from the barns and venues at State Fair Park. A new arena at Stockyards City IMO would bring more development and restaurants to enrich that unique area.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Jr2RKq4OY

State Fair Board's transparency would clear up a lot of this; therefore we could work quickly on a new arena or alternate location or did I miss something.

Don't think we will need a venue as expensive as FW Dixie's Arena to retain the horse shows at State Fair Arena.

Would love to hear your comments...

I think the first thing we need to see is the state fair board's books. I fear that there are way more brother in law deals cooked in that group than we would care to know about. If they try and get maps money next go around, then we really need to vote no for the sake of cleaning it up. Since they are paid by the city, can we not get a court order to see their balance sheets???

Someone mentioned a new arena shouldn't be built at State Fair Park. What about Stockyards City; wouldn't it be close enough to benefit from the barns and venues at State Fair Park. A new arena at Stockyards City IMO would bring more development and restaurants to enrich that unique area.
To be honest, I LOVE this idea! It would capitalize on Stockyards City nascent resurgence and would help bring much needed additional life to the area. But it won't happen.

If the State Fair wants to request any money in excess of the tax money that is already allocated to them and the revenues from activities at the State Fair Park, it wouldn't be unreasonable to request a look at their current finances to see why they would need more money.

To be honest, I LOVE this idea! It would capitalize on Stockyards City nascent resurgence and would help bring much needed additional life to the area. But it won't happen.

The new arena is tied to the barns too so all the horse crap (pun) can make use as well. But the livestock sales room, that really SHOULD be in the stockyards and i never understood why it was being put at the fairgrounds. All i could see was "because FT Worth is gonna do it and we have to do it too".

I don't think the Fairgrounds leadership is dishonest. I think they are very insular and self focused. I'm guessing the decades of Gaylord family leadership (and now the Bennett name taking over) has formed the secretive way they communicate. Anecdotally, I have had some conversation with City employees who seem to share the belief that the Fair Board wants what they want, and they expect to get it. Regardless of the opinions and projections of City staff.

6 or 8 years ago, I had a spell of civic interest that led me to dream of a "State Fair Area Merchants Association' or some such. IIRC, I worked up the courage to call Tim O'Toole, who is/was the man in charge. He was very nice, but said that was not something they had an interest in. I got the vibe they didn't want or need the outside involvement.

I think the Fairgrounds is, for a neighboring business, a great asset to have. Easiest location to access and most recognized in the State IMO. I just wish they had the zeal to promote it like, say, the Boathouse District, etc.

They do promote it....to ag shows, but that's it. That's part of the problem.

2nd photo is of the needle sections being stored in a yard on the east side of May.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaceneedle111718a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spaceneedle111718b.jpg

Maybe Frontier City will get a new ride...

According to a report in today's Oklahoman, the state fair board plans to include a new 'coliseum' in MAPS 4.

Would be pretty much as we previously reported.

It would factor as a “no” consideration in my vote, and I’ll see what else is included in MAPS 4 to decide on how I would vote.

But without financial transparency I see no reason to provide outside funding into what should be a self-sustaining entity.