I'm confused, how does a one story addition sucking up street frontage add value over a more significant structure like say...completing the rest of the planned Brownstones?

Mainly because it increases the square footage of the unit, adds unique amenities to the property, and maintains the integrity of the brownstone aesthetic. This will work to increase per square foot comps. It's also ONE lot, or about 25 feet. The developers have proposed development of lesser quality build and materials across multiple lots for multi family units. So, it makes perfect sense that the HOAs in the area would prefer continued incremental development in line with the brownstone quality of what's there over over wholesale compromised development across several lots.

And it should be noted that no proposals for more brownstones have been submitted by the developers. They have only submitted proposals for flats constructed with lesser quality materials including, in part, stucco facades. So, really, the one story addition is more brownstone than any of the flats they;'ve proposed.


That's asinine.

But it's true.


There are at least 3 for sale after how many years? I wouldn't call that overwhelming demand.

This is in part due to the concerns of prospective buyers that the block will be finished with lesser quality development. Had they finished the street, they'd probably all be gone.


I'm new to the neighborhood, so excuse me, but is there a design review board like there is in bricktown?

The HOA has an architectural design review committee. Any new construction has to pass their review.


What are the specs of the ones for sale compared to the ones that Bradshaw has had offers to build?

It doesn't get that far, because they won't go under contract, so specs aren't presented for review. There have been exceptions recently, but those people are waiting to see what the developers do with the lots they still hold. However, anything proposed would need to pass the design review in accordance with the covenants, which are written to maintain the brownstone aesthetic, so exterior specs would be the same.

If "upkeep" is such a big deal to owners of the Brownstones, perhaps they can succeed in convincing their own developer to do something about the most unsightly deterioration in the entire neighborhood: the God-awful styrofoam-looking substance ON THE BROWNSTONES that has been marring views of Deep Deuce for years. Also, the same development group has allowed the ghastly one-story appendage to their otherwise quality development, further detracting from the neighborhood. Currently, Level is in far better condition to the casual observer than the Brownstones are. Also, the Maywood lofts are much more unsightly than Level, and up to now, have failed at providing quality retail interaction with the street, an area in which Level has also succeeded.



(insert throwing stones analogy here).

We have begged, we have pleaded but short of legal action, the developers refuse to cover the ends. Can't pay for upkeep when the developers don't pay their dues!

What are the specs of the ones for sale compared to the ones that Bradshaw has had offers to build? A central concept to the brownstones is that not all are equal.

Nobody called it overwhelming demand. But The Hill, a dinstinctly lesser development to the Brownstones, is rescued from the dead and can't build them fast enough. How does Bradshaw expect to sell the units that remain when he won't even finish them out inside and have the exterior views of the project in a presentable condition?

The ones Bradshaw finished out will struggle to sell. Mercedes shell with Yugo interior finish. He even ripped off the decorative deck finish (on the rear second floor decks), rather than repair them properly. Without even consulting the architectural committee, as he says the rules don't apply to him.

We have begged, we have pleaded but short of legal action, the developers refuse to cover the ends. Can't pay for upkeep when the developers don't pay their dues!

This is sad.

I mostly love the brownstones, and I have no issue with the residents at all. I wish I could afford one. But this proves that the "upkeep" issue is not just a Level problem.

Lindsey is a lawyer, are there no actions that can be taken?

I wonder if it'll be hard to sell the 'stones on the south side of 3rd street, the smaller ones. Looks like any view they would've had facing S/SW will be mostly obscured by Mosaic.

3 of them have sold or are pending in the last several months. All that are left for sale are the ones which don't have a top floor porch w/fireplace. There's one resale on the north side of 3rd with a porch but I would guess it won't be on the market long because of the great view from the top floor porch.

3 of them have sold or are pending in the last several months. All that are left for sale are the ones which don't have a top floor porch w/fireplace. There's one resale on the north side of 3rd with a porch but I would guess it won't be on the market long because of the great view from the top floor porch.

Sounds like the units are flawed, not the site, not the price point, and not the concept.

After reading the comments from Brownstone owners on this thread (seems like every Brownstone owner either posts here or posts up in the NBA), why would anyone buy such a high-end investment from Ron Bradshaw??

This is sad.

I mostly love the brownstones, and I have no issue with the residents at all. I wish I could afford one. But this proves that the "upkeep" issue is not just a Level problem.

This is partially true. The owners are doing everything they can to maintain the area. It's the developers that don't seem to care. This is why it is frustrating to see uniformed comments that criticize the owners. They have nothing but the best intentions for the area and, if it wasn't for them, who knows what condition the apartment complexes would be in now. Developers have chosen materials that require a lot of maintenance, yet seem disinterested in proactively maintaining their work. The owners are simply trying to avoid that from continuing. That's why they favor a smaller development with good material over a large development using materials that they have shown no interest in maintaining.

Don't get me wrong. I am still of the opinion that the brownstones are the best for sale housing currently downtown and it is in a kick ass district that has more urban life in it than anywhere else in the city. The owners just want to keep it that way and want sustainable development. Honestly, if they just built more of them, focusing on the ones they know sell well, or allowed for the sale of lots to owners that not only are agreeable to the guidelines, but also embrace them, this all would be a non-issue save for the need for natural upkeep of the developments. Given the downtown market as a whole, it doesn't seem like that would be a hard sell for them. They seem unaware that they are shackling themselves by not completing the street with more quality brownstones.

I don't know about Bradshaw, but I do know that some other parties involved have more undeveloped land in the area that could make for cool mixed use development that focuses on for sale flats for housing. In an ideal world we would see something like that along side the completion of the brownstone development. As an observer and lover of the downtown area, I'd love to see that happen as it would maintain a great mix of for sale and rental housing in the area. Diversity is key, imo, but to achieve that there needs to be a commitment to making sure things don't get out of balance and that each concept is completed in a quality manner. I just don't see how it makes sense to abandon the brownstone concept on 3rd at this point for multi family flats built from materials that they don't want to take care of. Some may not like the decision to allow a one story addition, but at least it extends the brownstone concept in a much more faithful way than the flats that were proposed.

To bring it back on topic, I think Mosaic is a nice concept, but it will introduce more need for maintenance and, unfortunately, it will probably continue to fall on the people who own homes there to make sure that maintenance happens. That shouldn't ever have to be the case and I think if those that appreciate the area and are interested in seeing Oklahoma City's urban landscape be one of good quality, whether they live there are not, that should be of a lot more concern to them than an addition that actually complies with the agreements the owners signed when they bought the place.

Sounds like the units are flawed, not the site, not the price point, and not the concept.

After reading the comments from Brownstone owners on this thread (seems like every Brownstone owner either posts here or posts up in the NBA), why would anyone buy such a high-end investment from Ron Bradshaw??

I don't think they're flawed. They're just not done. So, the concern is not so much the actual units, but the intentions of the developers going forward. Trust me, no one wants to see the ends covered and more quality in fill than the owners and there are guidelines in place to ensure that happens. Why the authors of those guidelines are now trying to disavow them is the big question at this point.

I take umbrage with that statement, I have seen my share people from every part of DD leave dog crap on the ground. It's not just Level tenants. I won't argue with the part about the stucco, however. Bad finish on an otherwise fine design. I'd also ask what the brownstone owners thought they were getting into, did they think it was never going to be a mixed-residential area?

Of course not. Certainly the most recent buyers didn't think that. But they did think that the areas that fall under the HOA would comply with the covenants that were handed to them by the developers when they bought their home. I'm sure they want a MIXED-residential area because they bought into it. I think they just want the brownstones and its aesthetic to remain a significant part of the MIX as was promised and agreed upon. It's not only possible to maintain a mixed-residential area with more brownstone development, it's an integral part of it.

Look, this is not about the owners coming in and trying to redefine the area. They're simply trying to enforce the same guidelines that they must comply with. They can't split their homes into multifamily units or put stucco on their home or do anything without approval. So, neither should any new development within the jurisdiction of the HOA. We constantly talk about the need for bricktown to enforce its guidelines to maintain a quality district that is true to its intended aesthetic. This is exactly the same thing.

Great comments, BDP. For the record, I am 100% supportive of the "owners" of the brownstones. Pardon me, but I initially misread your term owners to mean Bradshaw. It's unfortunate that Bradshaw's group tried very hard to introduce quality construction, but fell short of a complete and more marketable development concept.

This may seem callous, as I support buying local as much and as often as possible, but OKC needs some savvy outsiders to come into the market and raise the bar, because the local yokels are leaving a lot to be desired.

Great comments, BDP. For the record, I am 100% supportive of the "owners" of the brownstones. Pardon me, but I initially misread your term owners to mean Bradshaw. It's unfortunate that Bradshaw's group tried very hard to introduce quality construction, but fell short of a complete and more marketable development concept.

This may seem callous, as I support buying local as much and as often as possible, but OKC needs some savvy outsiders to come into the market and raise the bar, because the local yokels are leaving a lot to be desired.

This may be the case with the metropolitan. It's looks like it could be a nice development and I was thinking that part of the district may also be a good place for some developers to try the flats concept that were being proposed for maywood. I don't think its a bad concept for the district, but I do think 'where', 'what', and 'how' matters.

And yeah, I probably wasn't really clear with the distinction. Even though Bradshaw and Garrett own the undeveloped property and a couple of remaining brownstones, I usually just refer to them as the developers and the residents as the "owners".

This may be the case with the metropolitan. It's looks like it could be a nice development and I was thinking that part of the district may also be a good place for some developers to try the flats concept that were being proposed for maywood. I don't think its a bad concept for the district, but I do think 'where', 'what', and 'how' matters.

And yeah, I probably wasn't really clear with the distinction. Even though Bradshaw and Garrett own the undeveloped property and a couple of remaining brownstones, I usually just refer to them as the developers and the residents as the "owners".

There are some nice lots on the west side of Oklahoma that would be great for flats, across from where the Metropolitan is going.

There are some nice lots on the west side of Oklahoma that would be great for flats, across from where the Metropolitan is going.

I agree.

Now we just have to find a backer. : )

I agree.

Now we just have to find a backer. : )

I like the concepts for the Lisbon Lofts being built in midtown. That'd be a great place to do a phase 3 for them.

I recently walked from Iguana to Bricktown and did so (for the first time) via Oklahoma because I wanted to get that perspective. I was surprised, sidewalks all the way (well, you know, until the tracks), which is more than we can say about some areas of midtown, and I agree, I noticed the potential of those lots on the west side of the street, especially once the Metropolitan is there...

I like the concepts for the Lisbon Lofts being built in midtown. That'd be a great place to do a phase 3 for them.

I agree. The Lisbon concept is cool. Looks like they'll be of quality construction too. I doubt there'd be as much push back from residents if the maywood developers were considering something along those lines.

Framing the 3rd residential story

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/23/y7y9ysud.jpg

Image from last Friday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5203/14008577382_419681cee1_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nkTC1f)
Deep Deuce (https://flic.kr/p/nkTC1f) by lazio85 (https://www.flickr.com/people/77483833@N04/), on Flickr

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7232/13988660006_5707e74380_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nj8xgd)
Deep Deuce (https://flic.kr/p/nj8xgd) by lazio85 (https://www.flickr.com/people/77483833@N04/), on Flickr

Thanks to shawnw for the the photo:

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/7802d1399902505-mosaic-mosaic051114.jpg

6/4/2014

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/10357716_10203049503911047_72316169021888732_o.jpg

Getting dense!
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/10386993_10203049503351033_6665598297661008442_o.j pg

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^

Wow, that took shape fast!

I had heard they are actually ahead of schedule and now I believe it.

Thanks for the photos, Dan.

It's pretty interesting to see from the other side of the tracks on E.K. Gaylord. The density of all of Deep Deuce is impressive from that angle, in fact.

Some photos from the Deep Deuce Facebook page:



https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/10384290_641049162652818_8629736367432944533_n.png


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/4477d1379428481-mosaic-mosaic12.jpg


https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t1.0-9/10462590_641049189319482_7515500267244014639_n.png


https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10341492_641049212652813_1818200459300969626_n.png

Wondering what everyone who has complained about the lack of upkeep in the neighborhood thinks now...LEVEL's landscaping is now being maintained by the neighborhood HOA, which has also improved the South pocket park and the streetscapes throughout the neighborhood (including those in front of The Lofts), in addition, the Brownstones HOA and owners have invested in new landscaping through 3rd street and the wall has been painted...overall, I'd say the area looks a lot better than it did a few months ago.

Wondering what everyone who has complained about the lack of upkeep in the neighborhood thinks now...LEVEL's landscaping is now being maintained by the neighborhood HOA, which has also improved the South pocket park and the streetscapes throughout the neighborhood (including those in front of The Lofts), in addition, the Brownstones HOA and owners have invested in new landscaping through 3rd street and the wall has been painted...overall, I'd say the area looks a lot better than it did a few months ago.

Sounds like a good solution.

Someone needs to post pictures of the "after" since we saw several ugly "befores".

Wondering what everyone who has complained about the lack of upkeep in the neighborhood thinks now...LEVEL's landscaping is now being maintained by the neighborhood HOA, which has also improved the South pocket park and the streetscapes throughout the neighborhood (including those in front of The Lofts), in addition, the Brownstones HOA and owners have invested in new landscaping through 3rd street and the wall has been painted...overall, I'd say the area looks a lot better than it did a few months ago.

Is the HOA going to fix the styrofoam exterior walls?

Is the HOA going to fix the styrofoam exterior walls?

Which wall are you talking about? The styrofoam wall facing West has been painted on the South side and the North side will be bricked after the current owner is done with their addition.

Wondering what everyone who has complained about the lack of upkeep in the neighborhood thinks now...LEVEL's landscaping is now being maintained by the neighborhood HOA, which has also improved the South pocket park and the streetscapes throughout the neighborhood (including those in front of The Lofts), in addition, the Brownstones HOA and owners have invested in new landscaping through 3rd street and the wall has been painted...overall, I'd say the area looks a lot better than it did a few months ago.

I had dinner last week on the Urban Johnnie's patio and it was just a really lovely scene.

Just imagine once the aloft restaurant is there with patio seating and OKSEA is there with some kind of patio...

Which wall are you talking about? The styrofoam wall facing West has been painted on the South side and the North side will be bricked after the current owner is done with their addition.

Far northeast side

From catch22:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mosaic071714a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mosaic071714b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mosaic071714c.jpg

Thumbs up for openable windows.

What does the spray paint say?

Ruben and a frown face.

They're working on the "stucco" exterior at LEVEL again, and yet all the brick is in perfect condition. Clearly sometimes you get what you pay for. I hope they use something more durable at Mosaic. It looks like the Edge might be using real stucco. I suspect it will look quite a bit better in 20 years than either LEVEL or Mosaic.

People scoff when we object to poor materials and construction like this kind of artificial stucco wall treatment (and through the wall air heat pumps :D) but they find out later it is no laughing matter. Good construction is not just about how cool it looks. Usually it takes longer than just a few years, but this type exterior wall will look old and cheap eventually. It is just happening at Level sooner than later. Unless they continuously maintain or replace, it will only get worse. If they don't then the whole neighborhood will look bad in a few years. We don't want the same kind of neighborhood deterioration we see in poorly built suburban areas with cheap apartments whose owners get tire of maintenance costs after they get their money back and then just let it become a cash cow.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TylerBHolmes/status/492301778579628032

8735

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3917/14744109002_6781c2672a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/osTpVU)
Mosaic (https://flic.kr/p/osTpVU) by lazio85 (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3917/14744109002_6781c2672a_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/osTpVU)
Mosaic (https://flic.kr/p/osTpVU) by lazio85 (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3892/14744115092_1380a4eca7_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/osTrJU)
Mosaic (https://flic.kr/p/osTrJU) by lazio85 (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr

Nice shot of Mosaic and Deep Deuce from Cotter Ranch Tower:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/deepdeuce082614.jpg

That massive parking lot to the SW is looks like a great candidate for a mixed-use development!

That massive parking lot to the SW is looks like a great candidate for a mixed-use development!Agreed

This has got be getting close, yes? An early 2015 opening would seem appropriate for a development of this size.

This has got be getting close, yes? An early 2015 opening would seem appropriate for a development of this size.

Their website was recently updated (I think in the last week or so). I have emailed them a couple times in the last week asking for information, including an estimated completion date, but have yet to hear back.

This has got be getting close, yes? An early 2015 opening would seem appropriate for a development of this size.Weren't they slated for fall 2014?

Weren't they slated for fall 2014?

Yes. I think they just recently took "Coming 2014" off their website. I thought it still said that the last time I checked, but now I don't see it.

Also, it looks like Mosaic residents will have access to the pool, fitness center, and other amenities at Level. I know some people on here had wondered, but I couldn't remember if anyone had heard officially.

This has got be getting close, yes? An early 2015 opening would seem appropriate for a development of this size.

They've been working on the interior consistently, but it's been several months since I've seen any exterior work. I wonder if they're looking for a new material, given the problems they've had at LEVEL.

Yes, something has happened here because I was told a few months ago they were ahead of schedule and would be opening in early fall.

Yup the exterior work completely ceased about 2-3 months ago The scaffolding was put up, they started wrapping the liner around the building, then just vanished. Still seems like some work is going on inside - but a noticeable drop in workers over the last couple months.

They've been working on the interior consistently, but it's been several months since I've seen any exterior work. I wonder if they're looking for a new material, given the problems they've had at LEVEL.

(fingers crossed)

They've been working on the interior consistently, but it's been several months since I've seen any exterior work. I wonder if they're looking for a new material, given the problems they've had at LEVEL.

I hope this is the case and they decide to invest in a more robust sustainable exterior material. I am sure the Level has given them pause for concern. You shouldn't have to fix the exterior after only a couple of years.

They are finally applying something to the exterior - but of course it's this morning and its generating an awful, constant noise. Glad I wasn't up celebrating last night.

February 1st is the planned opening date of this project.

They are finally applying something to the exterior - but of course it's this morning and its generating an awful, constant noise. Glad I wasn't up celebrating last night.

It looks like concrete.

It looks like concrete.

Sounds like stucco.

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