Some of you need to look closer at SEC scheduling over the years. They play very few marque games out of conference and when they do they play them early.

Let's look at Alabama over the last few years.

2012 - Michigan first game of the season
2011 - Penn State second game
2010 - Penn State second game
2009 - Virginia Tech first game (played in Atlanta)
2008 - Clemson first game (played in Atlanta)
2007 - no marque ooc
2006 - no marque ooc
2005 - no marque ooc

When they played OU in 2003 it was 2nd game of the season - and they damn near won. Alabama ended up 4-9 that year.

Gundy knows what he is talking about.

Some of you need to look closer at SEC scheduling over the years. They play very few marque games out of conference and when they do they play them early.

Which is really what I'm advocating, to play a marquee non-conference game early in the season. Alabama did it right this year, they scheduled a marquee game early on, and even though Michigan didn't pan out, it gave them more than enough cred until they beat LSU. The SEC also has a trick of saving a cupcake until late season, so they get a break between big games.

Building up their name and impressing pollsters are two different things. Most teams should try their best to go undefeated if they want to get to championship game. They shouldnt even be making contingency if they lose. Are they supposed to look 5 years down the road and think, "well we play at OU that year so we might lose, lets schedule Michigan that year so we might have an extra good win...assuming we win."

I think OSU scheduling a Miss St, Zona or other mid pack teams in BCS conferences is a good enough strategy. Every 5 years or so if they want to do a FSU game (whats been mentioned, at Jerry World) then fine. But OSU doesnt need that every year to "build up a name"

Not that different, honestly. Pollsters are biased, they give the SEC the benefit of the doubt because the SEC has won so much. Computers only care about W/L and SOS, but computers are only 1/3 of the conversation. If you build a name for yourself, the pollsters will give you more leeway. If you're not a big name, then pollsters won't look at you if you don't have a marquee win to your name.

Which is really what I'm advocating, to play a marquee non-conference game early in the season. Alabama did it right this year, they scheduled a marquee game early on, and even though Michigan didn't pan out, it gave them more than enough cred until they beat LSU. The SEC also has a trick of saving a cupcake until late season, so they get a break between big games.

And the fact that their conference scheduling doesnt have them playing all the tough teams. Bama didnt have to play Georgia, Florida or South Carolina in the regular season. Thats how its possible for them to have like 6 teams in the top 10 in November. There is a bit of SEC bias but it also helps with how they schedule. Meanwhile, Big 12 plays everyone. And if you come out of that undefeated, along with no non conf losses, there is almost no way you will not make the title game.

And lets not pretend Bama got into this title game because they happened to beat Mich this year. They could have played Savannah St and would still be playing ND.

Some of you need to look closer at SEC scheduling over the years. They play very few marque games out of conference and when they do they play them early.

Let's look at Alabama over the last few years.

2012 - Michigan first game of the season
2011 - Penn State second game
2010 - Penn State second game
2009 - Virginia Tech first game (played in Atlanta)
2008 - Clemson first game (played in Atlanta)
2007 - no marque ooc
2006 - no marque ooc
2005 - no marque ooc

When they played OU in 2003 it was 2nd game of the season - and they damn near won. Alabama ended up 4-9 that year.

Gundy knows what he is talking about.

The funny thing is that lately it's been Louisiana-Lafayette that boosts the Pokes' OOC schedule strength

Not that different, honestly. Pollsters are biased, they give the SEC the benefit of the doubt because the SEC has won so much. Computers only care about W/L and SOS, but computers are only 1/3 of the conversation. If you build a name for yourself, the pollsters will give you more leeway. If you're not a big name, then pollsters won't look at you if you don't have a marquee win to your name.

If you go through the Big 12 undefeated, you will have plenty of marquee wins.

well... gundy isn't going to Arkansas

Bret Bielema reportedly heading to Arkansas, leaving Wisconsin - NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000105984/article/bret-bielema-reportedly-heading-to-arkansas-leaving-wisconsin)

Rumor mill says Charlie Strong is going to be announced as the next Tennessee head coach.


And lets not pretend Bama got into this title game because they happened to beat Mich this year. They could have played Savannah St and would still be playing ND.

LSU and Georgia, combined with the SEC name value, pretty much assured it. Problem is, Big 12 has lost a lot of that name value, comparing them doesn't work anymore. Even the notion that you'd come out of the Big 12 with a lot of quality wins isn't really true right now. For K-State, the Big 12 was good for 1 this year. They have OU, and that's it. The Big 12 isn't as strong as it used to be, and there was no call whatsoever to have any other 1-loss team in the title game because none of the others had nearly as good of wins.

Of course, coming out undefeated from any conference is tough. It doesn't happen often, which is why it makes sense to at least have one great non-conference team if you can manage it to improve your chances.

Rumor mill says Charlie Strong is going to be announced as the next Tennessee head coach.


I just heard that too.

It makes me think this was an epic swing and a miss by Gundy.

Gundy stuck his neck out with nothing on the other end.
Now Gundy has got to crawl back and provide gratification to Holder and Pickens and attempt to repair these broken and dysfunctional relationships.

Pickens and Holder will never forget what they will see as an act of extreme disloyalty.
This is just but one chapter, but it’s a very public chapter that will be used in the recruiting battles against OSU.

I just heard that too.

It makes me think this was an epic swing and a miss by Gundy.

Gundy stuck his neck out with nothing on the other end.
Now Gundy has got to crawl back and provide gratification to Holder and Pickens and attempt to repair these broken and dysfunctional relationships.

Pickens and Holder will never forget what they will see as an act of extreme disloyalty.
This is just but one chapter, but it’s a very public chapter that will be used in the recruiting battles against OSU.

If he was turned down, then yeah, it would be a huge miss. It could also have been that he turned down the job, and that'd be a different matter. I doubt we'll know what really went on if Strong is the new HC.

I just heard that too.

It makes me think this was an epic swing and a miss by Gundy.

Gundy stuck his neck out with nothing on the other end.
Now Gundy has got to crawl back and provide gratification to Holder and Pickens and attempt to repair these broken and dysfunctional relationships.

Pickens and Holder will never forget what they will see as an act of extreme disloyalty.
This is just but one chapter, but it’s a very public chapter that will be used in the recruiting battles against OSU.

Not if he actually was the one that turned down the job. You are speculating on what only a few people know right now.

If he was turned down, then yeah, it would be a huge miss. It could also have been that he turned down the job, and that'd be a different matter. I doubt we'll know what really went on if Strong is the new HC.

To Holder and Pickens it doesn’t really make much difference if he turned down other jobs.

Making the disagreement public is embarrassing to them and to the OSU community.
They also are smart enough to know that others will be telling recruits that Gundy might be leaving OSU.
They won’t like that and for a period of time it will make selling OSU to recruits a little harder..

I just heard that too.

It makes me think this was an epic swing and a miss by Gundy.

Gundy stuck his neck out with nothing on the other end.
Now Gundy has got to crawl back and provide gratification to Holder and Pickens and attempt to repair these broken and dysfunctional relationships.

Pickens and Holder will never forget what they will see as an act of extreme disloyalty.
This is just but one chapter, but it’s a very public chapter that will be used in the recruiting battles against OSU.

Please, you're salivating over yourself here. The Tennessee media was reporting all day that the job was Gundy's if he wanted it. It's obvious that Gundy was using all of this to put a scare in Holder. "Extreme disloyalty" give me a break, those two guys have always taken advantage of Gundy's loyalty. Two incredibly storied programs with national championships, one with a 102,000 seat stadium, came calling - Gundy answered the phone.

Besides, let's be real. OSU is not a Texas or Oklahoma. They need Gundy a lot more than Gundy needs them. Holder had to be sweating bullets today. Especially had Gundy have left over the control issues - what "A-list" coach would OSU be able to nab? Nobody wants a job where they're a head coach and still at the bottom of the pecking order.

As for recruits, Gundy can now say that he turned down Texas A&M... and Arkansas... and Tennessee... and Florida... and who knows what other schools. Every big coaching vacancy has wanted Gundy over the last 2-3 years, it's just depended on how pissed off Gundy was at Holder at the moment whether he would entertain the offer. Gundy's loyalty is to OSU evidently, not Holder. Most OSU fans I know despise Holder anyway.

I know that T. Boone Pickens has donated a lot of money. Does that buy him a position of authority at a state institution? It would be a travesty if Pickens had a single word to say about anything regarding who's coaching at Oklahoma State. I'm not being naive, I'm looking past the nonsense that has become college football. If he's bought and paid for the OSU athletic department, then give him some title and hold him accountable to the state regents and the people of the state.
They don't want something official, that means public responsibility, not something that "businessmen" want to assume unless they have to. Boone isn't really doing anything that much different than what many big boosters do at a lot of schools, Texas is pretty much run by Red McCombs and Joe Jamail, Dodds does what they want him to do. As long as they want Mack Brown to stay, he will stay, if they want him gone Dodds will retire Mack to an Assistant AD position in charge of fund raising or something like that.


Basically Holder is liked by very few, but one of them is Boone so there isnt much you can do besides wait til something happens to Boone (peacefully passing away, perhaps) and then we can fire Holder and get a real AD.
Holder is the issue with many, not just Gundy. From what I have heard the contract negotiations really soured him on his situation and the fact that Holder pretty much wanted an "alumni discount" after what Gundy has done there. He has proven to be a very good coach and if he feels the situation is beyond repair at OSU, he should leave. If Holder were to leave, Gundy probably wouldn't be as interested in leaving.

Tennessee is still rumored to be in play with the possibility of Cale going too.

Bruce Feldman‏@BFeldmanCBS
Tennessee has offered the Vols head coaching job to Mike Gundy, a source told CBS this morning.

John Helsley ‏ @ jjhelsley


robert allen on the radio: "i've got some news, mike gundy is staying at oklahoma state... he has made a decision." # okstate

And lets not pretend Bama got into this title game because they happened to beat Mich this year. They could have played Savannah St and would still be playing ND.

Alabama's OOC schedule this year:
Michigan - week 1
Western Kentucky - week 2
Florida Atlantic - week 4
Western Carolina - week 12

Florida didn't play a conference game the last month of the season and their last 6 games were in the State of Florida. In fact, they only played 3 games outside of Florida. LSU only played 4 games away from home. OU played 6 games away from Norman. KSU played 5 road games. The Big XII needs to wake up with their scheduling. They are costing our teams a chance at a national championship.

Alabama's OOC schedule this year:
Michigan - week 1
Western Kentucky - week 2
Florida Atlantic - week 4
Western Carolina - week 12

Florida didn't play a conference game the last month of the season and their last 6 games were in the State of Florida. In fact, they only played 3 games outside of Florida. LSU only played 4 games away from home. OU played 6 games away from Norman. KSU played 5 road games. The Big XII needs to wake up with their scheduling. They are costing our teams a chance at a national championship.

In the case with OSU, it can't draw many big name opponents, because it's stadium is too small for them. The bigger the stadium to play in, the more money for the teams. Pickens needs to build a 40,000 people addition on to his names sake stadium.

So now there is Tennessee, Wisconsin, and Auburn looking for head coaches, will Gundy go for any of those 3 teams?
No. Gundy is staying put as of today: UPDATE: Multiple sources say Gundy has turned down Tennessee job » Local News » Stillwater NewsPress (http://www.stwnewspress.com/local/x942843795/UPDATE-Multiple-sources-say-Gundy-has-turned-down-Tennessee-job)

No. Gundy is staying put as of today: UPDATE: Multiple sources say Gundy has turned down Tennessee job » Local News » Stillwater NewsPress (http://www.stwnewspress.com/local/x942843795/UPDATE-Multiple-sources-say-Gundy-has-turned-down-Tennessee-job)

Seems to me this is the last time Gundy can play the "I'm gonna leave" card. Tennessee, while imperfect, is a pretty good SEC job, and if a young coach like Gundy has a chance to try and work a bit of magic to make 100K+ people happy, sure seems like you take it if you want it, especially if things back home are iffy.

One entirely unsubstantiated radio report indicates Gundy turned down the Tennessee offer of somewhere in the region of $5 - 5.5 million/year, substantially higher than what I think is his current salary of $3.2 million/year.

I just don't think you turn down a decent-if-imperfect SEC job for that kind of money if you have *any* inkling of leaving. JMO, of course.

Aaaaaand now the OU fans stop tapping their fingers together saying "muahahahahaha" and begin trembling again.

Aaaaaand now the OU fans stop tapping their fingers together saying "muahahahahaha" and begin trembling again.TweeterVerse@CBSSPORTS.com

Shane Veronigan @SVeronigan
"Mack Brown stepping down at Texas. Deloss Dodds talks with Oklahoma State's Gundy"

TweeterVerse@CBSSPORTS.com

Shane Veronigan @SVeronigan
"Mack Brown stepping down at Texas. Deloss Dodds talks with Oklahoma State's Gundy"

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Not Mack Brown, please stay! It would be so weird to see Mike Gundry as coach as the Longhorns if he is hired

TweeterVerse@CBSSPORTS.com

Shane Veronigan @SVeronigan
"Mack Brown stepping down at Texas. Deloss Dodds talks with Oklahoma State's Gundy"

Even if this wasn't a fabrication, do you want Gundy at your other rival?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Not Mack Brown, please stay! It would be so weird to see Mike Gundry as coach as the Longhorns if he is hired

Is Gundy mandated to only coach at schools wearing orange?

Is Gundy mandated to only coach at schools wearing orange?

mr. gundy, i've got syracuse on line 2. sure, i'll let it go to voicemail. -M

Aaaaaand now the OU fans stop tapping their fingers together saying "muahahahahaha" and begin trembling again.Haven't been trembling. Not gonna start now. OSU has a long way to go before they can prove to be anything but Oklahoma's #2 football team.

Even if this wasn't a fabrication, do you want Gundy at your other rival?

A WWLS OSU show host was just talking about Gundy to Texas as a possibility with a former OSU athlete.



I am not worried about a coach who has only beaten OU once….. Texas is a very unique place with very unique requirements for a coach’s personality. Gundy’s personality would buy him about 4 years, 5 years max before they ran him out of town.... but with a big bag of money.

Is Gundy mandated to only coach at schools wearing orange?

Sure seems like it.
No wonder he didn’t take the Arkansas job

Haven't been trembling. Not gonna start now. OSU has a long way to go before they can prove to be anything but Oklahoma's #2 football team.Make that number 3 in state.
Tulsa has a better all time winning percentage.
OSU just recently crawled above 500% all time.

A WWLS OSU show host was just talking about Gundy to Texas as a possibility with a former OSU athlete.



I am not worried about a coach who has only beaten OU once….. Texas is a very unique place with very unique requirements for a coach’s personality. Gundy’s personality would buy him about 4 years, 5 years max before they ran him out of town.... but with a big bag of money.

Personality? So you have to be old as **** and cool with players' criminal records?

Make that number 3 in state.
Tulsa has a better all time winning percentage.
OSU just recently crawled above 500% all time.

To be reasonable, Tulsa isn't playing nearly the same caliber teams as OSU has played.

Haven't been trembling. Not gonna start now. OSU has a long way to go before they can prove to be anything but Oklahoma's #2 football team.


After 44-10 last season and nail biter OT in your own house this season with a 3rd string QB. Times are changing, bud. See you in Stillwater, LOL.

To be reasonable, Tulsa isn't playing nearly the same caliber teams as OSU has played.

Up until OU let OSU join the Big 8, OSU played a similar schedules to Tulsa.
Since then it’s been mostly mediocrity for OSU.

After 44-10 last season and nail biter OT in your own house this season with a 3rd string QB. Times are changing, bud. See you in Stillwater, LOL.


I heard the same type of words from OSU fans (team on a rise) back in the 60’s after OSU managed 2 wins in a row against poor OU teams. When they brought their when total to 13 all-time wins against OU in 1976 poke fans said the same things. The OSU win total is now up to 17 and one win in the past 10 years and we are still asked to believe the same old lines… Like “times are changing”.

Up until OU let OSU join the Big 8, OSU played a similar schedules to Tulsa.
Since then it’s been mostly mediocrity for OSU.

OSU would have done much, much better in conference USA than Tulsa would in the Big 8/12. Tulsa is no more the #2 team in the state than UCO is. If you have to pull up conference alignments dating back to the 1950's, you have no argument.

OSU would have done much, much better in conference USA than Tulsa would in the Big 8/12. Tulsa is no more the #2 team in the state than UCO is.

Don't talk logically to someone with crimson and cream glasses on. According to him, OU is forever 'wheners'.

OSU would have done much, much better in conference USA than Tulsa would in the Big 8/12. Tulsa is no more the #2 team in the state than UCO is. If you have to pull up conference alignments dating back to the 1950's, you have no argument.

Present day no, but Tulsa still has a better all time winning percentage.

Don't talk logically to someone with crimson and cream glasses on. According to him, OU is forever 'wheners'.

We have had our John Blake days. But even he beat OSU once

Oh and the drunk too.

Alabama's OOC schedule this year:
Michigan - week 1
Western Kentucky - week 2
Florida Atlantic - week 4
Western Carolina - week 12

Florida didn't play a conference game the last month of the season and their last 6 games were in the State of Florida. In fact, they only played 3 games outside of Florida. LSU only played 4 games away from home. OU played 6 games away from Norman. KSU played 5 road games. The Big XII needs to wake up with their scheduling. They are costing our teams a chance at a national championship.

Nope. What OOC games cost the Big 12 a shot at the title? None. Okay. It seems like you've just been throowing theories around lately without any thought and seeing if any of them stick...

In the case with OSU, it can't draw many big name opponents, because it's stadium is too small for them. The bigger the stadium to play in, the more money for the teams. Pickens needs to build a 40,000 people addition on to his names sake stadium.

Terrible idea. You build a stadium for what can be filled. OSU can't fill their stadium now. Expansion would be nonsensical.

.As can clearly be seen there are giant differences between the OSU way of doing things.....
and the way OU operates its universities athletics.





Berry Tramel: Trinity of David Boren, Joe Castiglione, Bob Stoops a lesson in longevity, trust | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/berry-tramel-trinity-of-david-boren-joe-castiglione-bob-stoops-a-lesson-in-longevity-trust/article/3489870)
August 28, 2010
NORMAN — David Boren hears the horror stories from other university presidents.

Athletic departments run amok. Football coaches who consider their program a fiefdom.
Boren shakes his head, which rests easy each night. Athletics don't deal the OU president misery. Football is a balm to his spirit, not a thorn to his flesh.

"I get a good night's sleep," Boren said.

The Sooner trinity is the reason. Boren. Athletic director Joe Castiglione. Football coach Bob Stoops.

They have been together now almost 12 years. Only one prez/AD/coach trio in America, Penn State's, has been together longer, and anytime your consistency and longevity is compared to Happy Valley, you're doing something right.

"It's been a wonderful experience," Boren said. "It's made a big difference in my life.

"It's a very close working relationship. I feel very fortunate both of these outstanding people have come to join the university since I've been here."

Boren left the U.S. Senate in 1994 to become president of his alma mater. He hired Castiglione in April 1998. Joe C. hired Stoops that December.

Despite the myriad of job offers that have come his way, Stoops is embarking on his 12th OU season.

"I love Oklahoma and what we're doing," Stoops said, "but I also love working for them. It's benefited me greatly, because of the support we get.

"Look at how the program has changed the last 11 years. I get a lot of recognition, but one reason I've been so excited to be here so long is because of the support."

Support comes in many packages. A $3 million salary and a massive stadium expansion over the last decade resounds support. But so, too, does this.

When Stoops arrived at OU, his practice fields ran east/west. Which is fine if your stadium does the same. Owen Field doesn't.

Those same practice fields were a parking lot on game day. "I don't want my players stepping on chicken bones, from where people were tailgating," Stoops said.

Within a year, his practice fields ran north/south, with neither Cadillacs or drumsticks on game days.

"Little things like that are huge to me," Stoops said.

Here is a little thing that is big to Boren. No surprises. He doesn't want to read about a football problem without first hearing about it. Doesn't want to take a phone call from a regent or a booster and be in the dark.

"I have been kept totally in the fold," Boren said.

That wasn't always the case. When Boren took the job, OU's athletic department was more than $10 million in debt. He says he wasn't told of that situation and had to find it out on his own.

Boren likened athletics to a separate empire within the university.

Fast forward more than a decade, when OU's athletic department discovered the impermissible payments from Big Red Sports and Imports to quarterback Rhett Bomar and guard J.D. Quinn.

"When we found out the information on Bomar, within 10 minutes of the athletic department finding it out, I knew it," Boren said. "They called and said, 'Can the two of us come over to your office?' Both were here in 20 minutes. I was fully briefed on what happened

"Coach Stoops said, 'We're going to terminate these people from the team.' Joe said, 'We're going to notify the NCAA right away.' I didn't even have to request it.

"I'm never surprised. There's total trust. Total transparency. We share the same basic values. It's been a really remarkable relationship."

That doesn't mean the trinity always agrees. Boren pulled rank almost 10 years ago after Castiglione decided to send radio voice Bob Barry Sr. into a gentle retirement. Barry remains the play-by-play man of OU broadcasts.

And this summer, Boren and Stoops clearly were more excited about the possibility of joining the Pac-10 than was Castiglione.

But that's the beauty of a strong relationship. People don't necessarily have to think alike, they just need to work together.

"I point to President Boren," Castiglione said. "He's the one that brought us both here and talked about the type of program we were going to create. Creating an atmosphere where excellence can occur.

"The whole relationship has become stronger through the years. If there is a word that sums up our relationship, that would be trust. Respect and trust.

"Doesn't mean we don't disagree. Doesn't mean we don't have a certain view about a certain issue. Certainly doesn't mean we're not strong in our views.

"But Bob and I feel fortunate to work for president Boren."

And here's the best news for OU. Longevity breeds longevity. Constancy breeds constancy.

The trinity is helping keep each other on the job.

Stoops is "obligated to stay as long as I'm president," Boren said with a twinkle in his voice, and indeed, Stoops had a clause in his contract allowing him to collect a $3 million longevity bonus even if he had left early, provided Boren had left, too.

And Stoops, as he's been doing more in recent years, talks much more like a coach who's staying for the long haul than a coach who's leaving soon.

"Who knows? In life, as you roll through it, things change," Stoops said. "Or they don't. You don't know.

"Who knows what's going to happen? We're all pretty excited with where we're at. Hopefully it doesn't have to change anytime soon."

Present day no, but Tulsa still has a better all time winning percentage.

Which is irrelevant to the fact that OSU is far and away the number 2 team in the state. They play much better competition and have since they went to the Big 8. Since you have to go back to 1957 to find any justification against that, it just shows you have none. Still, it's fun looking up the quality of schools in the old Missouri Valley Conference, so I should thank you for giving me a reason to do that.

Aaaaaand now the OU fans stop tapping their fingers together saying "muahahahahaha" and begin trembling again.

What's Gundy's record against OU? 1-7. Sooner fans love beating down Gundy.

After 44-10 last season and nail biter OT in your own house this season with a 3rd string QB. Times are changing, bud. See you in Stillwater, LOL.

OSU: A team on the rise... perpetually... bud.

Which is irrelevant to the fact that OSU is far and away the number 2 team in the state. They play much better competition and have since they went to the Big 8. Since you have to go back to 1957 to find any justification against that, it just shows you have none. Still, it's fun looking up the quality of schools in the old Missouri Valley Conference, so I should thank you for giving me a reason to do that.

Can we we quit this discussion... OSU is clearly a better program than TU now. It's silly to even insinuate otherwise.

Nope. What OOC games cost the Big 12 a shot at the title? None. Okay. It seems like you've just been throowing theories around lately without any thought and seeing if any of them stick...

This year? OU/Notre Dame. Every team ahead of OU at the time OU lost went on to lose except ND. OU would be 11-1 and ranked #2. But it just isn't the OOC schedule, it is the Big XII schedule as well. If KSU didn't play all 9 other teams they could be 12-0. Likewise, if OU didn't play KSU and ND but instead played Western Kentucky and Georgia Southern (two teams that played Alabama and Georgia) this season they would likely be 12-0 as well. This years NC game could feature a 12-0 Kansas St and a 12-0 Oklahoma.

Can we we quit this discussion... OSU is clearly a better program than TU now. It's silly to even insinuate otherwise.

I agree, so why not ask the person who did so?

This year? OU/Notre Dame. Every team ahead of OU at the time OU lost went on to lose except ND. OU would be 11-1 and ranked #2. But it just isn't the OOC schedule, it is the Big XII schedule as well. If KSU didn't play all 9 other teams they could be 12-0.

If OU didn't play Notre Dame and everything else played out like it did, then we'd still see ND and Alabama in the NC game. A 1 loss OU team wouldnt' get in ahead of a 1 loss Alabama team that beat the #2 and #3 teams in the nation, and an undefeated Notre Dame was always going to get in.

From a story in another sports thread.


And Texas continues to be the loudest voice favoring a 10-team league because it makes for easier scheduling with 9 conference football games (everyone plays everyone) and round-robin scheduling in basketball; no conference title football game to potentially derail an undefeated team from the national title picture; and fewer schools to share TV revenue with.

But sources in the Big 12 tell Orangebloods.com there is increasing disagreement about these positions.

Those sources argue it's actually easier to get to a national title game in a league with divisions because there's an increased chance the best teams won't always play each other and knock each other off.

Look at the SEC this year.

Alabama didn't play the best teams from the SEC East - Florida, Georgia or South Carolina - during the regular season.

And Georgia didn't play the best teams from the SEC West - Alabama, LSU or Texas A&M - during the regular season. And those two played for the right to be in this year's national title game.


They are both right. Keep 9 teams but only play 7 of them.

What does any of this have to do with Gundy and other jobs? There are several other threads where this discussion should be - not copy/pasting stuff over to here.

I agree, so why not ask the person who did so?

In present day yes OSU is a better program, but historically not really so much.
Until recently Tulsa had probably been to more bowls and has likely won more conference championships. They won their conference this year. I know Tulsa had very good teams in the 1920’s and 1940’s.
This history of football in our state is interesting. Knowing something about it allows you to know that things that happened decades ago still carry weight even today.

As seen in post #103 in this thread things like respect, trust and closely working together are important ingredients in a well-run athletic department.

Gundy’s actions have fully exposed a complete lack of any of these things among the 3 key players at OSU in Pickens, Holder, and Gundy...

We have learned that this feud has been known about for some time by the media that covers OSU.
Just like they have in other instances involving OSU they did not report embarrassing details of what they knew until they basically were force to. They have continued the trend of being completely untrustworthy.

No matter how much spin OSU fans want to put on this it’s another embarrassing chapter in OSU athletics that have involved several important decision makers at the university in the past 12 or so years. Since OSU athletics do accept state tax dollars for funding at some point state officials maybe need to step in and make sure things are being done correctly.


By the way where is the OSU president in all this?
He has been fully exposed for being nothing more than a puppet figurehead.

I heard the same type of words from OSU fans (team on a rise) back in the 60’s after OSU managed 2 wins in a row against poor OU teams. When they brought their when total to 13 all-time wins against OU in 1976 poke fans said the same things. The OSU win total is now up to 17 and one win in the past 10 years and we are still asked to believe the same old lines… Like “times are changing”.

I like this revisionist history that the MVC was some lowly joke of a conference. Mizzou and KU were in it too I believe, and joined the Big 6 making it the Big 8. It was also always more of a basketball conf..still has Creighton, WSU, and some other good bball schools. Those weren't the times like today where we're moving toward 4 super conferences and only football matters.

Besides, everyone knows OSU's history kinda sucks. The school's other athletic programs have rich tradition, and academically there's a good heritage, but we all know how that school stands in football. They've accomplished a lot rather quickly and as an Oklahoman I say it can only be a good thing.

By the way Tulsa actually has some pretty good football tradition...correct me if I'm wrong, but they have some big bowls, including Sugar Bowls. Plus Largemt and other greats..

Nope. What OOC games cost the Big 12 a shot at the title? None. Okay. It seems like you've just been throowing theories around lately without any thought and seeing if any of them stick...

Notre Dame for one...

[QUOTE=ou48A;600962].As can clearly be seen there are giant differences between the OSU way of doing things.....
and the way OU operates its universities athletics.

I know the Trammel article is from 2010, but please, please. . . don't compare the OU triumvirate to Happy Valley. . .turned out not to be so "happy".

In present day yes OSU is a better program, but historically not really so much.
Until recently Tulsa had probably been to more bowls and has likely won more conference championships. They won their conference this year. I know Tulsa had very good teams in the 1920’s and 1940’s.
This history of football in our state is interesting. Knowing something about it allows you to know that things that happened decades ago still carry weight even today.

Tulsa is a fine mid major, and I never said they were a garbage program. But your statement was that Tulsa was the #2 team in the state.

Are you arguing that winning Conference USA is better than winning the Big 12? You're dragging out things that happened in the 1920's and 1940's as though that makes a difference into what school has more prestige, clout, and name value 70 years later. But schools lose clout over time if they don't advance. Times change, it's not the 1940's and despite your insistence to the contrary, it doesn't carry weight today. You're just grasping at straws because you said something stupid and have to come up with any reason to justify it, but Tulsa, for as good of a mid major as it is, isn't anything close to the number 2 program in the state.


I like this revisionist history that the MVC was some lowly joke of a conference. Mizzou and KU were in it too I believe, and joined the Big 6 making it the Big 8. It was also always more of a basketball conf..still has Creighton, WSU, and some other good bball schools. Those weren't the times like today where we're moving toward 4 super conferences and only football matters.

Besides, everyone knows OSU's history kinda sucks. The school's other athletic programs have rich tradition, and academically there's a good heritage, but we all know how that school stands in football. They've accomplished a lot rather quickly and as an Oklahoman I say it can only be a good thing.

By the way Tulsa actually has some pretty good football tradition...correct me if I'm wrong, but they have some big bowls, including Sugar Bowls. Plus Largemt and other greats..

We're not talking about basketball, baseball, wrestling, and so forth. The entire conversation is about football, and as a football conference, the MVC lost all it's best talent to the Big 8 and eventually stopped playing football altogether. As for Tulsa's tradition, they've had some good players and years, but the entire discussion was because he said they were the number 2 team in the state, based on their all-time win percentage. Tulsa did go to a Sugar Bowl in 1943 (OSU went in 45), Tulsa has had some success, they did have Steve Largent, and they were good especially in the early years when there was little structure to scheduling and football teams could literally play anyone, but the notion that they're number 2 is ludicrous, even if OSU doesn't have the best football history. The revisionism here is acting like 25 MVC titles and 1 nearly undefeated season (along with some good teams back when talkies were lighting up the big screen) equates to being a tradition heavy powerhouse. MVC football titles aren't that impressive when you consider that when the best teams left and they were just a revolving door for schools looking for a stepping stone to something better. They weren't a strong football conference, and records against terrible teams don't mean all that much. No one is saying OSU is anywhere near OU in terms to tradition, but to say they have less value than Tulsa is absurd.

No matter how much spin OSU fans want to put on this it’s another embarrassing chapter in OSU athletics that have involved several important decision makers at the university in the past 12 or so years. Since OSU athletics do accept state tax dollars for funding at some point state officials maybe need to step in and make sure things are being done correctly.

I know you sport the crimsonest pair of glasses on this planet but this is absurd. Another embarrassing chapter..? I think you are overstating a lot of what has happened. I dont think this will affect much of anything on down the road. Embarrassing is an OU baseball coach saying the N word on live TV. Embarrassing is an OSU basketball coach getting a DUI. Embarrassing is an OU basketball coach that got caught illegally recruiting, twice. Embarrassing is an OSU coach letting a program get out of control and put on probation.

This last 3 days, hardly embarrassing. And to suggest state officials get involved to make sure things are being done correctly...? You act like something illegal is happening. Pull those glasses down every now and then and quit being so ridiculous

I know you sport the crimsonest pair of glasses on this planet but this is absurd. Another embarrassing chapter..? I think you are overstating a lot of what has happened. I dont think this will affect much of anything on down the road. Embarrassing is an OU baseball coach saying the N word on live TV. Embarrassing is an OSU basketball coach getting a DUI. Embarrassing is an OU basketball coach that got caught illegally recruiting, twice. Embarrassing is an OSU coach letting a program get out of control and put on probation.

This last 3 days, hardly embarrassing. And to suggest state officials get involved to make sure things are being done correctly...? You act like something illegal is happening. Pull those glasses down every now and then and quit being so ridiculous

Oh you mean the Boon Pickens Hedged fund fiasco that made the national newspapers was not embarrassing and then there was the insurance scam that OSU lost 30 some million on and lost a battle in a court of law. That wasn’t embarrassing either. Then there are Suttons drunk + drugs and the Stillwater Whataburger riots. OSU has been more than once admonished by the Big 12 over the way they have treated its visitors. This are thing that OSU leadership has allowed and there is more.

This Gundy deal has been going on for about a year and for it to come out so publicly is very embarrassing to the OSU leadership.

Under Joe C. it may not be instantaneously but they have pretty much gotten rid of their personnel that are repeated embarrassments. On this there just isn’t any comparison.