won't argue with that. but that doesn't dispute the fact that if there is something we can do to prolong those resources, we should. i'm not saying that we should limit everything. but if there are some small steps we can take to prolong what we have, there is still no reason not to, regardless of how much we have in reserve.

I would be interested in the long term reuse of water such as, someday, being able to pump water back upstream on Arkansas, Canadien(s) and Red Rivers.

I would be interested in the long term reuse of water such as, someday, being able to pump water back upstream on Arkansas, Canadien(s) and Red Rivers.

Tulsa does put it's treated sewer water into the Arkansas River.

Tulsa does put it's treated sewer water into the Arkansas River.

It is not like Tulsa is the first city putting it's treated sewer water into it, or even first metro of size.

I counted 7 hydrants open in my neighborhood last Saturday for at least 6 hours. Streets were flooded with water. There has been a small river of water running from around 43rd and Libby, south to 42nd street then west to the storm drain at 42nd and meridian for about 10 days now from what must be a leaking underground main. I saw hydrants all around Will Rogers park open for hours on Oct 19th. So much that people on Next Door were commenting about it. And I know they have to occasionally flush the lines but the hours of water coming out of multiple hydrants is huge compared to a few sprinkler heads watering the street. I'm sure these line flushes are occurring all over the city. every day.

AFAIK the sewers can give the city a call if they're ever feeling thirsty. Think they've been calling more and more lately due to the ongoing drought.

Yukon has been dumping its treated water in the N Canadian for many many years.

Where does OKCs go. It has to go somewhere.

N Canadian

Seems like they should be putting it back into the area city lakes for reuse.

Seems like they should be putting it back into the area city lakes for reuse.

You should write them a letter. I'm sure they could use the help.

Conserving water is EVERYONE'S responsibility. Just like you should be conserving electricity. Being wasteful with either is just showing yourself to be a jacka$$. You're telling others that you have enough money (or lack of concern) that you can just throw it away with no consideration of what an impact that has on others. That use and toss and "i'll do what i want for myself" mentality is far too common in a particular (not young) generation.

As for treated water, yes it goes back in to the water source and has to meet a high standard from the EPA in order to do that. And the systems are regularly inspected to ensure that they are meeting both the content and temperature requirements to do so. The solid hockey puck of nasty that's left over, can be properly disposed of. You should be far more concerned with the raw diaper poopies in the landfills. That's the literal crap that works its way down into the ground water eventually. If you are not aware of the concern surround that little bit, go do a little googling. There's a reason why you're supposed to scrape the poopies off in to the toilet....but no one does it. I mean who wants to do that with a smeary squished one? No one, including me. But I didn't realize at the time, that I wasn't supposed to throw those in the trash....since everyone does that. If you work in healthcare, if someone soils the sheets, you do have to scrape it off to a certain degree before the laundry folks will take it (or at least they're supposed to treat it this way).

Conserving water is EVERYONE'S responsibility. Just like you should be conserving electricity. Being wasteful with either is just showing yourself to be a jacka$$. You're telling others that you have enough money (or lack of concern) that you can just throw it away with no consideration of what an impact that has on others. That use and toss and "i'll do what i want for myself" mentality is far too common in a particular (not young) generation.

As for treated water, yes it goes back in to the water source and has to meet a high standard from the EPA in order to do that. And the systems are regularly inspected to ensure that they are meeting both the content and temperature requirements to do so. The solid hockey puck of nasty that's left over, can be properly disposed of. You should be far more concerned with the raw diaper poopies in the landfills. That's the literal crap that works its way down into the ground water eventually. If you are not aware of the concern surround that little bit, go do a little googling. There's a reason why you're supposed to scrape the poopies off in to the toilet....but no one does it. I mean who wants to do that with a smeary squished one? No one, including me. But I didn't realize at the time, that I wasn't supposed to throw those in the trash....since everyone does that. If you work in healthcare, if someone soils the sheets, you do have to scrape it off to a certain degree before the laundry folks will take it (or at least they're supposed to treat it this way).

Ah, the sanctimony! You mean, unlike me, you used disposable diapers instead of cloth diapers? How could you? The environment is everyone's responsibility. And while you preach about conserving a resource we have an abundance of, and by the way, we don't destroy it, we just pass it downstream after being cleaned, you admit for some reason that you filled the landfill with toxic trash which won't decompose for 100+ years.

My household is extremely green, but we're not ridiculous. We used cloth diapers, we have solar, etc. We also recognize that in OKC, water is abundant, we don't need to conserve something we have in abundance. We use exactly as much as we want to. Because it's there. Lots of folks consume environmental protection media meant for audiences in the American West and California. There, water is more scarce and even to some extent, the scarcity of water threatens the existence of cities like Las Vegas. But unlike a lot of environmental issues, water is a local issue and water scarcity there is irrelevant to water abundance here.

The solid hockey puck of nasty that's left over, can be properly disposed of.
https://y.yarn.co/b6ae8e84-1432-4c33-9301-cfd809a542b0_text.gif

I gotta say, I am absolutely floored by the opinions that wasting water just doesn't matter. It feels like I'm watching someone make a pro-littering argument.

Even if OKC's water supply is well prepared for the next several decades it's still bad stewardship of our natural resources to let it run down the street for no good reason.

nm

I gotta say, I am absolutely floored by the opinions that wasting water just doesn't matter. It feels like I'm watching someone make a pro-littering argument.

Even if OKC's water supply is well prepared for the next several decades it's still bad stewardship of our natural resources to let it run down the street for no good reason.

110% yes!

Hydrant by my house is wide open again. It's only been 10 days since they last had them open. I'll say the guy from the water dept has a great job. He just sits in his truck by the open hydrant for hours until he decides to close it.

I gotta say, I am absolutely floored by the opinions that wasting water just doesn't matter. It feels like I'm watching someone make a pro-littering argument.

Even if OKC's water supply is well prepared for the next several decades it's still bad stewardship of our natural resources to let it run down the street for no good reason.

This!

I gotta say, I am absolutely floored by the opinions that wasting water just doesn't matter. It feels like I'm watching someone make a pro-littering argument.

Even if OKC's water supply is well prepared for the next several decades it's still bad stewardship of our natural resources to let it run down the street for no good reason.

the water is not "wasted" it just flows down stream ...

I gotta say, I am absolutely floored by the opinions that wasting water just doesn't matter. It feels like I'm watching someone make a pro-littering argument.

Even if OKC's water supply is well prepared for the next several decades it's still bad stewardship of our natural resources to let it run down the street for no good reason.

What do you think happens to water when it runs down the street? It quite usually ends up back in a reservoir.

I think this is kind of a State of Oklahoma mindset. I recall within the last 10 years one of the north Texas communities came across the Red River looking to buy water, which got the legislature busy to pass a bill banning out of state water sales. The result of that is normal Oklahoma runoff water that flows into the Red River becomes too contaminated for city use.

So, the State of Oklahoma would rather waste water than conserve it.

the water is not "wasted" it just flows down stream ...It's "wasted" in the context that it was treated, potable water that's going in a storm sewer. Of course water never goes away it just moves around. But putting potable water down a storm sewer is "wasting" a resource.

What do you think happens to water when it runs down the street? It quite usually ends up back in a reservoir.

It runs off somewhere downstream where in order to be used by humans again it has to go through another round of water treatment. It's a waste of everything involved in making that water safe for humans to drink in the first place. Electricity, man hours, wear and tear on the equipment involved, etc. Don't pretend that it's just somehow free on all sides of the equation.

They intentionally open hydrants to flush the mains. Sometimes, situations occur where they have to flush water from the system either to remove an upstream contaminant or to lessen downstream pressure. They aren't just opening hydrants for funsies.

It's "wasted" in the context that it was treated, potable water that's going in a storm sewer. Of course water never goes away it just moves around. But putting potable water down a storm sewer is "wasting" a resource.

Thank you. This isn’t that difficult to understand.

It runs off somewhere downstream where in order to be used by humans again it has to go through another round of water treatment. It's a waste of everything involved in making that water safe for humans to drink in the first place. Electricity, man hours, wear and tear on the equipment involved, etc. Don't pretend that it's just somehow free on all sides of the equation.

But it's more of a fixed cost for the city. No one charges the city per acre/foot of water used. It's either use it or send it downstream so you don't flood. And the funny thing is even the water that's used is often treated and sent downstream. I'm sure there are increased costs along with increased use, and that's understandable. As long as the city charges for water used, those costs are recoverable. It's treating water in OKC as if it's some sort of finite resource that's a bit silly. We have an excellent water department. We are fine in that department for years to come.

It's "wasted" in the context that it was treated, potable water that's going in a storm sewer. Of course water never goes away it just moves around. But putting potable water down a storm sewer is "wasting" a resource.

This, it's the power, chemicals, etc all the things that go in to the process that then are wasted resources. There is a direct correlation where those extra resources would not have been spent if there was not waste. Yes we still turn the lights on in the building every day regardless, but the consumables are a direct use-volume. All the little bits add up from all the customers. We also lose some of that to evaporation. It annoys me every day to see the new homes in my neighborhood that haven't been signed in to contract yet, and waste their sprinkler water like this.

And Midtowner, i guess you didn't read my post very clearly. I wasn't standing on any high horse. I'm pointing out the things learned that people dont know. And how those have impacts on the community and resources. My new home is far more efficient than my old one that was built in 1994. We actually use LESS water now with some appliance changes. Energy use has stayed about the same while adding 1k sq ft because of insulation and HVAC efficiency. But that's for that anyway.

The point I'm trying to make about the open hydrants for hours is the amount of water sprinkler systems are what people are referring to as wasted water is trivial to the thousands and thousands of gallons the city releases on to the streets on a daily basis. Just the amount of water that the water main that has been leaking into the street by my my house for the last month is probably more than those office buildings are using in 50 years.

Maintaining the system properly vs keeping your grass green is two different uses.

The point I'm trying to make about the open hydrants for hours is the amount of water sprinkler systems are what people are referring to as wasted water is trivial to the thousands and thousands of gallons the city releases on to the streets on a daily basis. Just the amount of water that the water main that has been leaking into the street by my my house for the last month is probably more than those office buildings are using in 50 years.

I can see the point in that, but also in what gjl is saying.

Now i have only rarely in my entire life, seen a hydrant opened for "maintenance" like that. I can really only think of twice that i've seen it. So do we know that it happens all that often? But either way, i think maybe that's a place where we could have someone look at that and create something to help solve that problem. Hook that hydrant up to some sort of truck that's able to handle water at that pressure (like a fire truck can) and filter out the crap and then be able to feed the clean water back in to the system. That's a gross oversimplification, but it's only done the way it is today, because someone hasn't come up with a way to cycle it back.....yet. So that, in my view, is a GREAT example of someone seeing a problem and raising awareness to help solve it.

I would also say that if you have a neighborhood with older leaking toilets, you would be astounded at the amount of water that ends up flowing through them. That water cycles back through water treatment so it's not fully lost, but as mentioned before, there are resources spent unnecessarily.

What i think would be really cool, is if there was a good productive way to collect that storm water runoff and efficient process it for storage. Even if its non-potable. We haven't gotten there yet, but having that secondary non-potable water infrastructure for things like sprinklers would go a long way to conserving things.

I can see the point in that, but also in what gjl is saying.

Now i have only rarely in my entire life, seen a hydrant opened for "maintenance" like that. I can really only think of twice that i've seen it. So do we know that it happens all that often? But either way, i think maybe that's a place where we could have someone look at that and create something to help solve that problem. Hook that hydrant up to some sort of truck that's able to handle water at that pressure (like a fire truck can) and filter out the crap and then be able to feed the clean water back in to the system. That's a gross oversimplification, but it's only done the way it is today, because someone hasn't come up with a way to cycle it back.....yet. So that, in my view, is a GREAT example of someone seeing a problem and raising awareness to help solve it.

I would also say that if you have a neighborhood with older leaking toilets, you would be astounded at the amount of water that ends up flowing through them. That water cycles back through water treatment so it's not fully lost, but as mentioned before, there are resources spent unnecessarily.

What i think would be really cool, is if there was a good productive way to collect that storm water runoff and efficient process it for storage. Even if its non-potable. We haven't gotten there yet, but having that secondary non-potable water infrastructure for things like sprinklers would go a long way to conserving things.
The hydrants on or property at work are supposed to be opened quarterly according to the guy that does them. They only get done every couple years but every time he comes he tells us they're going to start sticking to the schedule. And they're only opened for maybe 20 minutes 30 at the most.

Still lots of brown dirt showing along the shoreline:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hefner051323a.jpg

I wonder what the next step is? Like, can they take water from the overflowing lakes down in SE Oklahoma? Or keep bleeding Canton dry?

At a certain point, something has to be done here.

I am guessing adding 120,000 people to the metro over the past decade hasn't helped matters.

I wonder what the next step is? Like, can they take water from the overflowing lakes down in SE Oklahoma? Or keep bleeding Canton dry?

At a certain point, something has to be done here.

I think they will wait until late June or July before they move any water. May is a big rain month and we don't want to have a situation like I recall we did years ago when we pulled water from Canton, had massive rains and then had to drain off most of the amount we got from Canton.

I "think" Oklahoma City is blessed with some of the best long term water management planning in the US. Solid access to many sources of water that have been fairly negotiated with all stakeholders.

I think they will wait until late June or July before they move any water. May is a big rain month and we don't want to have a situation like I recall we did years ago when we pulled water from Canton, had massive rains and then had to drain off most of the amount we got from Canton.

I "think" Oklahoma City is blessed with some of the best long term water management planning in the US. Solid access to many sources of water that have been fairly negotiated with all stakeholders.

I think it makes more sense to release water while the river is flowing better than usual. Less absorption and evap while temps are down. With all the new homes, apartments, and car washes Hefner will be showing lots of bare lake bed. Okc should dredge Hefner in the shallow areas until they can’t reach bottom anymore. . Lots of cities have done it. Run the material through a wash plant and dewater and stack out what’s dredged up. Sell it to offset the cost.

Based on the weather trend, we have a lot of rain coming in the next week. Moreover, looks like this Summer is going to be a wet summer like we had 5 years ago. We should be alright.

I am surprised the City hasn't tried to dredge the lake. I understand there are difficulties around the silt and clogging filters, but there should be ways to over come that.

Is there an option to turn off water from Hefner for a week(s) but still meet the demands of water delivery? I don't know how the water system is set up.

I am surprised the City hasn't tried to dredge the lake. I understand there are difficulties around the silt and clogging filters, but there should be ways to over come that.

Is there an option to turn off water from Hefner for a week(s) but still meet the demands of water delivery? I don't know how the water system is set up.When there was an active Lake Hefner Boat Owners Assoc we talked to the city a few times about dredging the south end. They are adamantly against it for the reasons you suggested. Plus. The lake is pretty deep in much of the north half. So even a number of years ago when all but the deepest municipal slips were dry the water supply was still in no danger.

Latest levels: https://waterdata.usgs.gov/monitoring-location/07159550/#parameterCode=00065&timeSeriesId=112093&period=P365D

I just took these (Sunday late afternoon).

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hefner051423a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hefner051423b.jpg

They need to open the locks on the canal 100% if they want to attempt to fill the lake while the river is high. It's all flowing downstream to Eufaula.

They need to open the locks on the canal 100% if they want to attempt to fill the lake while the river is high. It's all flowing downstream to Eufaula.

I have no idea what they are doing or why but I suspect they know how it works and are doing what they think is best.

Re: dredging. Would be more expensive but could they not bring in large earth moving equipment when the lake is at low levels and dig up some of the shallower areas (that would be dry)? This would have minimal/no effect on pumps and filters since it would be in dry areas.

Seems increasing capacity during dry springs to take advantage of future wetter springs would be wise?

Re: dredging. Would be more expensive but could they not bring in large earth moving equipment when the lake is at low levels and dig up some of the shallower areas (that would be dry)? This would have minimal/no effect on pumps and filters since it would be in dry areas.

Seems increasing capacity during dry springs to take advantage of future wetter springs would be wise?

I'm sure the water table is fairly high in the dry areas... so after digging a couple feet, water starts to intrude, which creates a ton of difficulty. For such a large area this should be done, it is probably more efficient to dredge via barge.

They had the canal gates open the other day, and after the recent rain it should really be flowing.

I'm sure the water table is fairly high in the dry areas... so after digging a couple feet, water starts to intrude, which creates a ton of difficulty. For such a large area this should be done, it is probably more efficient to dredge via barge.

I am 2 miles directly south of the most southern tip of Lake Hefner. I have a 125 ft well on my property and the water level in the well is a at 14 feet below ground level

I drove down 39th yesterday and they had one lock open all the way. Canal flowing at 425 cubic feet a second. I'm sure I've seen numbers of 1200 in the past.

https://waterdata.usgs.gov/monitoring-location/07240000/#parameterCode=00060&period=P7D

Looks much more full this morning:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/henfer052023a.jpg

Crazy how much difference a week makes. And there is more rain in the trend for next week.

It has two more feet of elevation than it did less than a week ago. Still six feet from officially full, but making real progress.

Probably going to be full before Summer really kicks off. The ground is so saturated, especially in the catchment area. I'd guess another foot and a half of rain in June and we hit full.

Looking better:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hefner053123a.jpg

Current level is 1194.16 ft. Normal elevation is 1199 ft.

https://snoflo.org/reservoir/oklahoma/lake-hefner-at-oklahoma-city#:~:text=Water%20levels%20at%20Lake%20Hefner,% 2C%20about%20104%25%20of%20normal.
At 104% of normal

There's a LOT of water in the Canadian River in the Texas panhandle, with more about to flow into it during the coming 24 hours. Then, we have more rain coming in the next several days. The trajectory for not only Hefner, but a lot of Oklahoma lakes is looking good.

It's the cycle. I think we're lucky this time though that the pattern developed of it's own nature. 10 years ago or so when we ended up in this water glut, it was partially because we got a punch from a hurricane remnant that, unusually, held together by the time it got to us.

I'm especially happy for western OK and what's coming to that side of the state lately. It's often so much more dry that direction compared to the east.

What I dont understand is that the farmers seem to be unhappy no matter what's going on. I read something this last week about the farmers saying this year's harvest was going to be bad. They said that when it was dry, now they're saying it when its wet. I mean nature won't ever be perfect cause you're not in a greenhouse. What are they expecting?

...What I dont understand is that the farmers seem to be unhappy no matter what's going on. I read something this last week about the farmers saying this year's harvest was going to be bad. They said that when it was dry, now they're saying it when its wet. I mean nature won't ever be perfect cause you're not in a greenhouse. What are they expecting?
Most crops need for the moisture to come at the right time. Getting moisture too late, after they've already lost crops due to drought, doesn't help this growing season (though it probably helps NEXT growing season). And sometimes lots of moisture late can cause issues like fungus and certain pests to take out a crop that was surviving in dryer conditions. Planting is a gamble, and they know this. Doesn't mean that it doesn't sting (or worse) when it turns out poorly.

Hefner has picked up half a foot just in the past two days. It’s moved into spitting distance of 1195’, which is only four feet shy of full pool. Seems difficult to imagine it reaching that point before summer, but as it sits, it’s already a huge improvement over the past couple of months.

Hefner has picked up half a foot just in the past two days. It’s moved into spitting distance of 1195’, which is only four feet shy of full pool. Seems difficult to imagine it reaching that point before summer, but as it sits, it’s already a huge improvement over the past couple of months.

So "full pool" means that anything above that and they start releasing water, correct?

^^^^^
I'm not certain of the intricacies related to the lake management, but that would make sense. I do know that technically water CAN exceed full pool; just not sure if they routinely ALLOW it to do so.