Sorry for the misunderstanding, I did not mean the original building of the lake contract, I meant the water storage contract in the '90's was between the feds and OKC. Enid actually had the earlier contract for water storage. They relinquished rights when they started using wells near Cleo Springs. The levels OKC can draw from, between 1615.4 ft and 1596.5 ft, is established in that contract.


Hopefully it's pouring rain in Canton lake as it is in lake Hefner right now. This storm should help some,how much?

Hopefully it's pouring rain in Canton lake as it is in lake Hefner right now. This storm should help some,how much?

It looks like the storm was far enough east it pretty much missed Canton's catchment area, a few inches may have been collected in Overholser or Hefner but as dry as the riverbed was I would not expect much.

I checked the rainfall totals in some of the North Canadian catchment areas out by Watonga and Greenfield, it was at least an inch up to 2 inches. Maybe this will help fill Hefner some.

Well, today is the day. Even though Hefner is 2/3rds full, OKCWT has given Canton Lake the death sentence. The Corps will open the only usable gate, and drain the Lake. It is unknown when the water will stop, but at that point, OKC is done. Until the drought breaks in the North Canadian watershed above Canton Lake, there will be NO more water from Canton.

OKCWT set our house on fire, and it's burning down, no way to stop it. But now, it's YOUR (the 200,000 who only get water from Hefner) house that is on fire, the burn will be slower, but burning it is, what is PLAN B? You should ask your councilmen why they have risked your water reserve, before the spring rains had a chance to fill Hefner.

So, happy days are here for you. When you drive by Hefner, and it looks nicer, say a prayer for those who will suffer, and the disaster that will happen, because OKC wanted it to be. So, get out there and water those gutters in the rain! It's yours to waste as you see fit. The sooner it's gone, the better.

After the reading the thread I'm still not sure why people are upset with OKC. I have family in that area and they are not happy. Canton Lake was built for this very purpose right? I agree it sucks for those around the lake but this is what the lake was built for right?

After the reading the thread I'm still not sure why people are upset with OKC. I have family in that area and they are not happy. Canton Lake was built for this very purpose right? I agree it sucks for those around the lake but this is what the lake was built for right?

this ..

OKC has water rights they used them in their best interest ... period we had a rain thus it is the best time for a release

Thanks Boulder. I'm not trying to be combative either to the other view point. I just honestly don't get the other side. I completely sympathize with the people up there, I just don't get why OKC is in the wrong. It is our water.

Thanks Boulder. I'm not trying to be combative either to the other view point. I just honestly don't get the other side. I completely sympathize with the people up there, I just don't get why OKC is in the wrong. It is our water.

Tragedy of the commons.

IS OKC using water in its best interest? Funny story, back when I worked at the City, I once heard a story about an eager employee that wanted to promote water conservation efforts, but was shot down because water = revenue, and in no way should they support conservation. Not being a party to it all, I cannot say if it was a true story or not, but it sure is interesting.

Thanks Boulder. I'm not trying to be combative either to the other view point. I just honestly don't get the other side. I completely sympathize with the people up there, I just don't get why OKC is in the wrong. It is our water.

i agree i'm sure that if i lived by lake canton i would be a little upset but not with OKC. It is not like this was some big secret canton was built to hold water every other use is secondary

Tragedy of the commons.

IS OKC using water in its best interest? Funny story, back when I worked at the City, I once heard a story about an eager employee that wanted to promote water conservation efforts, but was shot down because water = revenue, and in no way should they support conservation. Not being a party to it all, I cannot say if it was a true story or not, but it sure is interesting.

should okc promote water conservation efforts going forward? should okc have in the past? i would say yes to both.

Well, today is the day. Even though Hefner is 2/3rds full, OKCWT has given Canton Lake the death sentence. The Corps will open the only usable gate, and drain the Lake. It is unknown when the water will stop, but at that point, OKC is done. Until the drought breaks in the North Canadian watershed above Canton Lake, there will be NO more water from Canton.

OKCWT set our house on fire, and it's burning down, no way to stop it. But now, it's YOUR (the 200,000 who only get water from Hefner) house that is on fire, the burn will be slower, but burning it is, what is PLAN B? You should ask your councilmen why they have risked your water reserve, before the spring rains had a chance to fill Hefner.

So, happy days are here for you. When you drive by Hefner, and it looks nicer, say a prayer for those who will suffer, and the disaster that will happen, because OKC wanted it to be. So, get out there and water those gutters in the rain! It's yours to waste as you see fit. The sooner it's gone, the better.



Any chance you can get a photo of this occurrence?


How exactly is this water making it to Hefner? I am very curious.

Any chance you can get a photo of this occurrence?


How exactly is this water making it to Hefner? I am very curious.

Flows down the North Canadian River into Lake Overholser and then flows down a man-made canal to Lake Hefner.

Any chance you can get a photo of this occurrence?


How exactly is this water making it to Hefner? I am very curious.

They have started the release. We will be posting photos when they ramp up the release. The water flows down the North Canadian until it reaches Hefner.

This is your problem now. Without rain above Canton, there will be no water from Canton. NO WATER FROM CANTON.

They have started the release. We will be posting photos when they ramp up the release. The water flows down the North Canadian until it reaches Hefner.

This is your problem now. Without rain above Canton, there will be no water from Canton. NO WATER FROM CANTON.

I think that's the larger issue. Unless we see some drought relief soon, we'll have major water issues this summer. While we should all be sad that Canton is losing a recreation/wildlife source, we should be more concerned that it's potentially the last draw we'll be able to have for a long time.

You can watch the data at the gages along the river too and see the release recorded at Canton as well as watch it rise along the points on the trip to OKC. I don't ever look at lake levels but I'm sure they are around on the internet too.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=north+canadian+river+map&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS335US335&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS335US335&sclient=psy-ab&q=north+canadian+river+usgs&oq=north+canadian+river+usgs&gs_l=serp.3...3825.4978.0.5308.5.5.0.0.0.0.350.111 3.0j2j2j1.5.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.ftrby_67U5M&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41642243,d.eWU&fp=621f0f4a5a38013d&biw=1280&bih=559

I think that's the larger issue. Unless we see some drought relief soon, we'll have major water issues this summer. While we should all be sad that Canton is losing a recreation/wildlife source, we should be more concerned that it's potentially the last draw we'll be able to have for a long time.

Until the drought breaks above Canton, could be 5 years? Could be 10 years? Could be NEVER. It's doomsday, better start prepping.

Lets all hope it is springtime and yes, prepare.

You can watch the data at the gages along the river too and see the release recorded at Canton as well as watch it rise along the points on the trip to OKC. I don't ever look at lake levels but I'm sure they are around on the internet too.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=north+canadian+river+map&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS335US335&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS335US335&sclient=psy-ab&q=north+canadian+river+usgs&oq=north+canadian+river+usgs&gs_l=serp.3...3825.4978.0.5308.5.5.0.0.0.0.350.111 3.0j2j2j1.5.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.ftrby_67U5M&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41642243,d.eWU&fp=621f0f4a5a38013d&biw=1280&bih=559

Search for gauges on the North Canadian...you can start at Seiling. That would get the inflow into Canton. There are many gauges along the river. A new gauge has come online recently for the tower at Hefner.

The rainfall yesterday was moving unimpressive amounts of water into Lake Hefner, compared to what 3/4" normally would bring.

Flows down the North Canadian River into Lake Overholser and then flows down a man-made canal to Lake Hefner.

Okay I just followed the river out of Canton to Overholser over google maps..

This water has ALOT of dry area to fill.

If this drought continues as some forecast call for… OKC could be in a very desperate situation in about 18 to 20 months…..

With a dry lake Canton and with what will be a very low to nearly dry lake Hefner, besides tighter water restrictions what is the OKC water plan?

so at this point, what do we do? Just keep our fingers crossed for a wet spring? Hopefully we'll have a repeat of '07 when it rained for a month straight.

If this drought continues as some forecast call for… OKC could be in a very desperate situation in about 18 to 20 months…..

With a dry lake Canton and with what will be a very low to nearly dry lake Hefner, besides tighter water restrictions what is the OKC water plan?

If its yellow keep it mellow; big and brown, flush it down.

Remember this saying, if it doesn't start raining by May you will start to hear it more often.

If this drought continues as some forecast call for… OKC could be in a very desperate situation in about 18 to 20 months…..

With a dry lake Canton and with what will be a very low to nearly dry lake Hefner, besides tighter water restrictions what is the OKC water plan?

If you will have 18-20 moths why do you need water now?

If you will have 18-20 moths why do you need water now?

I think they're trying to keep the drinking levels "comfortable".

I think they're trying to keep the drinking levels "comfortable".

So there is not a need, only comfort?

So there is not a need, only comfort?


There will be a need.

I just want to know what the plan is, if they even have a plan for a much worse situation.

If this drought continues as some forecast call for… OKC could be in a very desperate situation in about 18 to 20 months…..

With a dry lake Canton and with what will be a very low to nearly dry lake Hefner, besides tighter water restrictions what is the OKC water plan?

i would guess we would need to add pumping capability to be able to serve the 200k customers that "have" to be served from hefner only to be able to serve those customers from draper ..

i believe okc is also going to shift water usage from hefner to draper in the coming months for the majority of okc

i would guess we would need to add pumping capability to be able to serve the 200k customers that "have" to be served from hefner only to be able to serve those customers from draper ..

i believe okc is also going to shift water usage from hefner to draper in the coming months for the majority of okc

Then why take water now?

i would guess we would need to add pumping capability to be able to serve the 200k customers that "have" to be served from hefner only to be able to serve those customers from draper ..

i believe okc is also going to shift water usage from hefner to draper in the coming months for the majority of okc

Thanks
That sounds like OKC would need to build a major raw water pipeline and they don’t get built over night.
If building pipelines is the OKC plan then they need to proceed with all speed possible!

Then why take water now?

Why you be snarky now you get disbarred

Water is a serious issue for all, my comments were not meant to be snarky. Everything I have said is true.

Water is a serious issue for all, my comments were not meant to be snarky. Everything I have said is true.

did someone in the canton area lose their drinking water source??

Hefner is 2/3rds full, no one in OKC has lost their source either. What will happen when spring rains occur, and OKC has to let that water go by. What purpose will this release serve for OKC? The water will be gone. Too late, too bad, tough luck.

Hefner is 2/3rds full, no one in OKC has lost their source either. What will happen when spring rains occur, and OKC has to let that water go by. What purpose will this release serve for OKC? The water will be gone. Too late, too bad, tough luck.

okc will manage their water usage between hefner and draper ... unless we get tons and tons of rain okc won't have to let any water just go by

Do you speak for OKC?

Do you speak for OKC?

definitely not

I don't think most people in OKC understand the situation. We have been trying to get OKC to conserve water for a very long time. We are met with "it's ours, we'll do what we want." If they had conserved the last two years, we might not have been in this situation now. How many have limited their water use? OKC should be good stewards for all water for everyone, including Canton Lake. You should all pray for rain. Unless there are heavy rains above Canton, there will be no water from this Lake. No matter what it was built for, no matter what OKC owns, no matter what the OKCWT wants, no matter what Canton wants. Without rains above Canton, there will be no water.

This time it really is going to be just what you brought on your own heads.

I don't think most people in OKC understand the situation. We have been trying to get OKC to conserve water for a very long time. We are met with "it's ours, we'll do what we want." If they had conserved the last two years, we might not have been in this situation now. How many have limited their water use? OKC should be good stewards for all water for everyone, including Canton Lake. You should all pray for rain. Unless there are heavy rains above Canton, there will be no water from this Lake. No matter what it was built for, no matter what OKC owns, no matter what the OKCWT wants, no matter what Canton wants. Without rains above Canton, there will be no water.

This time it really is going to be just what you brought on your own heads.

who is "we"

I know I've limited my water use massively the last two years. Of course not everyone does but as many dead yards as I've seen in OKC the past 2 summers I think a lot of people take the water rationing pretty seriously.

I don't think most people in OKC understand the situation. We have been trying to get OKC to conserve water for a very long time. We are met with "it's ours, we'll do what we want." If they had conserved the last two years, we might not have been in this situation now. How many have limited their water use? OKC should be good stewards for all water for everyone, including Canton Lake. You should all pray for rain. Unless there are heavy rains above Canton, there will be no water from this Lake. No matter what it was built for, no matter what OKC owns, no matter what the OKCWT wants, no matter what Canton wants. Without rains above Canton, there will be no water.

This time it really is going to be just what you brought on your own heads.

Do you happen to know what the evaporation rates are for Canton and Hefner lakes in the summer?

Water released from Canton Lake on its way to Oklahoma City | News OK (http://newsok.com/water-released-from-canton-lake-on-its-way-to-oklahoma-city/article/3750383)

http://www.news9.com/story/20813473/water-from-canton-lake-flowing-toward-oklahoma-city

Thanks
That sounds like OKC would need to build a major raw water pipeline and they don’t get built over night.
If building pipelines is the OKC plan then they need to proceed with all speed possible!

From their budget report it is expected to take around two years. Though it seemed like it was planed to start 2015.

OKC is quite far behind other large metros with water issues when it comes to water use. Building code and other city ordinances are sparse when it comes to requiring, incentivizing or enabling lower water usage across the board (or allowing/incentivizing reuse). Simply banning lawn watering won't do much overall. Every day use is a key issue.

Until the drought breaks above Canton, could be 5 years? Could be 10 years? Could be NEVER. It's doomsday, better start prepping.

You're being just a little bit melodramatic here.

Canton was built for one purpose--to hold water for the use of OKC. It's being used for that purpose. Locals need to be thankful they were provided that lake and its use in the good years.

Pretty sure its already been mentioned about the water release. ..

who is "we"

"We" are the people in western Oklahoma who have tried to raise awareness of at least part of OKC's water situation. If you have read this thread, you will see many comments--it's ours, we paid for it, we'll do what we want, we are the many, you are the few, we need it, you don't.

First, you are not the only ones that pay. Only 25% of the project costs are paid by OKC. Taxpayers subsidize the other 75% of the project operating fees.

Canton is like a plate, Hefner is like a bowl. When Canton is as low as it will be after this draw, Canton will be inactive. Hefner is 75 ft deep. 17 ft low at Hefner is not the same as 17 ft low at Canton. Yes, in the summer, Canton has a larger evaporation rate due to it's larger surface area, but it is not summer yet. No one asked OKC to never take the water, they only asked for you to wait, even for a month or two. It would have been worth the risk. We could have had rains between Canton and OKC that would have filled Hefner, making the draw unnecessary, saving Canton's water for a later need.

That's why I'm saying you should pray for rain. Until it rains above Canton Lake, there will be no more water from Canton. My understanding is when the water stops flowing, you are done until the Lake recharges enough to get released water to OKC.

I know what will happen to Canton and the small towns around it, and I think everyone who gets their water from Canton should know the real costs. I think people totally dependent on Hefner water should know their situation. What is plan B? I would think they have some plan B.

It just feels weird to have people from NW OK scolding us on water conservation and how we decided to use our water.

Plan B is probably the Atoka Pipeline and eventually figuring out the Sardis situation. I agree it's probably not fair to Canton to have their lake be Plan A when OKC has been planning for eons to look to SE Oklahoma for water.

As far as conservation goes, OKC sells a certain lifestyle. That includes watering your yard. For all the folks in Canton who rely on that lake for tourism, there are probably several folks in OKC economically dependent on well-watered yards. From lawn mowers to the folks who apply chemical treatments and fertilizer to landscapers, etc. OKC put OKC's needs first. I'd expect anyplace else to do the same.

If NW Oklahoma thinks this is a really big deal, maybe your legislators should push a statewide water use plan and push for OKC and the Indians to figure out their issues.

You're being just a little bit melodramatic here.

Canton was built for one purpose--to hold water for the use of OKC. It's being used for that purpose. Locals need to be thankful they were provided that lake and its use in the good years.

Canton was not built just for OKC. Canton was built for flood control, irrigation, and water supplies. OKC's contract began in 1991.

Maybe never is a little dramatic, but 5 years is very possible. If this is a 10 year drought, coupled with irrigation wells lowering the ground water, 10 years is a possibility.

How did OKC get the contract in 1991? Honest question because I don't know how this stuff works? Was there any attempt no let this happen so the lake was never endanger since it is so vital to NW OK?

Canton was built for one purpose--to hold water for the use of OKC.
You are not correct.


The lake was originally built to supply the Enid area but since Enid did not access its water storage rights, the rights were later reassigned to Oklahoma City.

It just feels weird to have people from NW OK scolding us on water conservation and how we decided to use our water.

Scolding us happens to us all the time, from people with different interest.
Just look at how we are told we can use our energy. They scold us over the type’s cars we drive to the appliances in our homes and more.

I think the criticism is fair....Really, if there is no more water left after this release, what do we do next year? I think these are fair questions to ask. We can't build a pipeline over night.

We just spent the last dollar in the savings account for NW OKC, so to speak. When checking dries up we don't have any more...

I think the criticism is fair....Really, if there is no more water left after this release, what do we do next year? I think these are fair questions to ask. We can't build a pipeline over night.

We just spent the last dollar in the savings account for NW OKC, so to speak. When checking dries up we don't have any more...

So I am just wondering if I should waste water to wash my PU in hopes of more rain? Like a catch 22

So I am just wondering if I should waste water to wash my PU in hopes of more rain? Like a catch 22

Seems to work for me. Every time I wash my car... I swear.

How did OKC get the contract in 1991? Honest question because I don't know how this stuff works? Was there any attempt no let this happen so the lake was never endanger since it is so vital to NW OK?

I would imagine OKCWT went to the Corps and basically said Enid is using wells, we need water, Corps and OKCWT negotiated an agreement, it was approved, Bush signed. Done. Often people think Canton was involved with the discussion, money, and rights. Completely false.

Most years, even when water is low, all Canton really asks is water releases be delayed beyond Memorial Day. We have been trying to tell OKC residents this is not like previous draws. This is an entirely different situation. This is a real all out drought. Canton has not been as low as it will be after the draw since the '50s, more than 50 years ago. Look how OKC has grown, how much more water you use. How many dependent water districts you've added. Canton has much less water now, and demands are higher.

There is no need to scold. Canton's water is gone, or at least will be in a couple of weeks. As you say, it's drinking water. Not landscape water, not lifestyle water, you need drinking water. And, as you say, it is your water. So, please, use it as quickly as possible, and in any way you see fit. Water your streets anytime.

When OKCWT calls for water, and the Corps say, there is no water, what will you do then?

Pray for rain, especially for those in need.

Listen, I hate to see Canton being drawn down as much as anybody. However, you have no right to be so condescending to residents of OKC. Have you thought about the other ways that Canton water has been used as of late? Maybe you should look at how much water has been sold to oil companies for drilling and completing their wells. You may be surprised. Also, how much water do residents use to keep their lawns green up your way? I go up that way quite often and I see plenty of green lawns out there in the middle of summer.

This was an inevitability for Canton, unfortunately, because drought is no stranger to NW Oklahoma. The "rolling hills" up there are nothing but dormant dune fields like The Little Sahara, so we know that area was and will be dry for extended periods of time. The fact of the matter is that OKC has the rights to a certain amount of water out of that lake and we took it. Sorry, but it would have happened sooner or later.

Now, for OKC's use of the water: It seems like I can drive around in any given day and see people water their dormant grass using mist sprinklers in the middle of the day. I hate it as much as anybody, but you can't criticize those people. OKC does a poor job getting the word out about our water issues. Most people are completely OBLIVIOUS to the situation. There are two ways to make people aware: extensive campaigning and water rate increases. I have a feeling that people will not care enough until we have rate increase. I personally plan to do some xerisscaping this year, and that should help us conserve a bit of water. I will probably also install rain barrels on our gutters. (Every little bit helps.) Oklahoma is settling down into a period of lower-than-normal rainfall. This trend really has been going for about the past 8 or 9 years. Sure, there may be a year or two in there where it rained a lot, but the general trend is decreased rainfall. We could use a really really wet spring, but I'm just preaching to the choir here.

law,

Your point is about as simple as torea on blowing train whistles. At least you live in the state.

I'm certain that everyone who has read this thread between now and however long ago has gone home at night and thought about how they can be active in making a difference. But the masses on okctalk are probably less than 1% of the OKC metro population. If you want to get a good reaction, form a group--like what was done with Friends for a Better Boulevard. Use Facebook and print material. Even though media has touched on it, reach out to all the local stations and share your cause. Go to a city council meeting and present your case. We forum readers can do things here but not much is going to change unless you're able to inform the other 99% about it.

I think the criticism is fair....Really, if there is no more water left after this release, what do we do next year? I think these are fair questions to ask. We can't build a pipeline over night.

We just spent the last dollar in the savings account for NW OKC, so to speak. When checking dries up we don't have any more...

True, all the eastern supplies of water mean nothing until pipelines get built. The drought is going to last at least one more year, and we already have problems now. Hefner and Canton will go down a lot this summer and they could have the Draper water treatment plant going at 100% all the time, but I bet the Hefner facility would still be using a lot of water. The water isn't distributed well at all and that's not going to fixed anytime soon.