I swear some people in this thread are complete idiots not knowing how our city lakes are supplied and how they're not connected.

I haven't posted in this thread, so I'm not one of those that you're referring to, but I've never really known what the actual path is of the water that comes out of an tap in OKC. Enlighten us, please.

I haven't posted in this thread, so I'm not one of those that you're referring to, but I've never really known what the actual path is of the water that comes out of an tap in OKC. Enlighten us, please.
Yeah not knowing how lakes are connected makes you a complete idiot if you didn’t know. I’m one too!

I haven't posted in this thread, so I'm not one of those that you're referring to, but I've never really known what the actual path is of the water that comes out of an tap in OKC. Enlighten us, please.
I know Overholser and Hefner are connected by the canal. I'm pretty sure I've read that Draper is connected by a pipeline but I'm not 100% positive.

As mentioned on the previous page, Lake Draper is fed from a pipeline from Lake Atoka that has been used for like, 60 years. A 2nd parallel pipeline is currently under construction. Also, the city owns rights to water from Sardis Reservoir and a pipeline is planned to move water from Sardis to Atoka but there is opposition from local people there.

To expand...McGee Creek Lake water can be pumped into Lake Atoka.

Oklahoma City has been working on cross connecting the two supplies, Lake Hefner Water Treatment and Lake Draper Water Treatment, so they can shift use to one or the other as needed. One phase of this is complete.

Story from 2018: https://journalrecord.com/2018/08/27/pipeline-designed-to-meet-okcs-growing-water-needs/

To expand...McGee Creek Lake water can be pumped into Lake Atoka.

Oklahoma City has been working on cross connecting the two supplies, Lake Hefner Water Treatment and Lake Draper Water Treatment, so they can shift use to one or the other as needed. One phase of this is complete.

Story from 2018: https://journalrecord.com/2018/08/27/pipeline-designed-to-meet-okcs-growing-water-needs/
Ahhh! So I was partly right about remembering reading something about Draper and Hefner being connected.

To expand...McGee Creek Lake water can be pumped into Lake Atoka.

Oklahoma City has been working on cross connecting the two supplies, Lake Hefner Water Treatment and Lake Draper Water Treatment, so they can shift use to one or the other as needed. One phase of this is complete.

Story from 2018: https://journalrecord.com/2018/08/27/pipeline-designed-to-meet-okcs-growing-water-needs/

I assume the treated water itself is at least somewhat all connected throughout the city? For example, One treatment facility can work harder if need be thus using more untreated water from a lake while the other uses less.

I assume the treated water itself is at least somewhat all connected throughout the city? For example, One treatment facility can work harder if need be thus using more untreated water from a lake while the other uses less.
Currently I don't think so. But that will be the case when the two treatment plants are connected around 2030.

Before this pipeline connection outlined in the article, no, you were served by one or the other only.

I looked briefly for details on the two phases to see if they accomplished some cross connection with the now completed Phase I, which was my understanding, but was not able to confirm that.

2019 story:

Browning said the funds will be used, in part, for the Hefner-Draper interconnect, a 22-mile pipeline project that will connect the treated water infrastructure between the city’s Lake Hefner and Lake Draper water treatment plants. Two sections of pipeline are planned, and both will connect to pipeline already in place.

When complete, that project will provide improved resiliency throughout the treated water delivery system by creating a redundancy between Hefner and Draper, he said. That will provide continuity of service for all Oklahoma City residents in the event of a plant outage or severe drought conditions. Currently, the Hefner and Draper water treatment plants each serve a specific portion of the city in separate, closed systems.

The idea for the project was generated from the city’s 2003 master water plan, championed by City Manager Jim Couch, who was praised on his last day of work Wednesday for moving that long-term vision forward in many ways. The master plan initially identified a need to create a connection between raw water sources. However, with existing infrastructure already in place between the two plants, it was later determined that connecting the treated water delivery would not only help the city realize an overall cost savings, Browning said, but also provide a better continuity of service by connecting treated and not raw water delivery.

https://journalrecord.com/2019/01/02/tapping-into-water-funds-okc-may-borrow-up-to-80-million-for-infrastructure-improvements/

It seems like capacity on the pipeline relative to demand is so tight in recent years they have generally been stuck in the process of refilling Draper from dips when it is down from maintenance.

While they did build the capability to shift untreated water between the two network halves a few years ago, they prefer not to shift water from Overholser/Hefner to Draper, as as the water quality before treating is much better at Draper. With the Overholser/Hefner system more vulnerable to drought and a second pipeline feeding a new lake on the horizon, it makes sense the cross connect would have mainly been intended for one way flow, even if it technically could flow either direction.

That's not what i mean. There's an area, i believe on the west side of Draper, that's been outlined as the next area to flood should we need more expansion of Draper. You can sort of make it out on Google Maps based on the tree lines following the creeks. It actually used to be outlined with dash marks on the older google political maps, but appears to be gone now. It would have basically doubled the capacity of Draper.

Here is an OCWP report that mentions the potential West Elm Creek Reservoir

https://www.owrb.ok.gov/supply/ocwp/pdf_ocwp/6acentral.pdf

Here is an OCWP report that mentions the potential West Elm Creek Reservoir

https://www.owrb.ok.gov/supply/ocwp/pdf_ocwp/6acentral.pdf

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=12686

Here is an OCWP report that mentions the potential West Elm Creek Reservoir

https://www.owrb.ok.gov/supply/ocwp/pdf_ocwp/6acentral.pdf

That is a really interesting document, thanks for sharing it.

Seems like having the water more local would save on the evaporation in transit too. Do we really need it though? Not really. The OKC metro has not even begun to think water conservation because its so widely available. I'm not really opposed to say making golf courses use nonpotable water to do watering. Or encouraging drought resistant and native landscaping instead of gulf coast water hungry stuff.

I'm thinking why not make the even/odd watering days permanent? They aren't really enforced, but most systems have had a way to set that schedule for decades. And if your manually watering then well, its on you bub.

Making the west elm is going to be costly (finishing land acquisition) and you should also look at what options are there after that's done? We're so flat, we dont exactly have large areas of empty land that's going to collect water for a lake. So you dont want to pull your ace out before its really needed and then not haven anywhere to go.

Seems like having the water more local would save on the evaporation in transit too. Do we really need it though? Not really. The OKC metro has not even begun to think water conservation because its so widely available. I'm not really opposed to say making golf courses use nonpotable water to do watering. Or encouraging drought resistant and native landscaping instead of gulf coast water hungry stuff.

I'm thinking why not make the even/odd watering days permanent? They aren't really enforced, but most systems have had a way to set that schedule for decades. And if your manually watering then well, its on you bub.

Making the west elm is going to be costly (finishing land acquisition) and you should also look at what options are there after that's done? We're so flat, we dont exactly have large areas of empty land that's going to collect water for a lake. So you dont want to pull your ace out before its really needed and then not haven anywhere to go.

Odd even days is permanent in okc already?

I flew into Las Vegas for a layover last week. It was shocking to see how low Lake Mead/Powell were. Shocking. With a very possible water crisis for Las Vegas -I also noticed what looked like to be several hundred new houses being built in new subdivisions. How in the world can a city continue to issue new housing permits and the demand for water they'll require -while their water supply level looks like its in a crisis level? Unreal.

A decision will be made later this month to hold water behind the Glen Canyon and Hoover Dams. They’re at risk for being shut down for hydroelectric production due to low water levels. Hopefully they can completely shut off the Colorado river and let these lakes fill back up. I love Powell especially as as soon as I close on my purchase in Moab I will be buying a home in Page to store my aquatic vehicles there. It’s such a special place and needs to be protected at all costs. I will lose it if they close the remaining ramps at Wahweap. Powell is a huge source of income for Navajo.

I used to listen to State of Nevada podcasts from KNPR in Las Vegas; Lake Mead and the Colorado River compact were a regular area of discussion. This was when a lady named Pat Mulroy ran the Southern Nevada Water Authority. She was always good at explaining complex issues regarding the river and all the parties drawing water from it. I recall the largest users are the farming in the central valley of California. (They are also the largest user of the aquifer in the region, IIRC). I remember some of the parties are the States of Arizona, California, Nevada, Native American interests in Arizona, and the Nation of Mexico. I think there are others.

Seems like the Las Vegas valley has been very proactive in conservation efforts. They spent $1.5 billion to drill and install the "Third Straw" in the late 20teens. This runs underneath the deepest part of Lake Mead and draws from there. I think Las Vegas has the right to be the last user of water. Not because of the "Third Straw", but because of how the compact operates,

I think I'm pretty close to accurate on this.

If I recall correctly the pecking order is,
Vegas
California
Arizona.

Seems like having the water more local would save on the evaporation in transit too. Do we really need it though? Not really. The OKC metro has not even begun to think water conservation because its so widely available. I'm not really opposed to say making golf courses use nonpotable water to do watering. Or encouraging drought resistant and native landscaping instead of gulf coast water hungry stuff.

I'm thinking why not make the even/odd watering days permanent? They aren't really enforced, but most systems have had a way to set that schedule for decades. And if your manually watering then well, its on you bub.

Making the west elm is going to be costly (finishing land acquisition) and you should also look at what options are there after that's done? We're so flat, we dont exactly have large areas of empty land that's going to collect water for a lake. So you dont want to pull your ace out before its really needed and then not haven anywhere to go.

The city already owns most if not all the land in the area that would be flooded with the West Elm.

As mentioned on the previous page, Lake Draper is fed from a pipeline from Lake Atoka that has been used for like, 60 years. A 2nd parallel pipeline is currently under construction. Also, the city owns rights to water from Sardis Reservoir and a pipeline is planned to move water from Sardis to Atoka but there is opposition from local people there.

Article describing the agreement with OKC and the tribes regarding Sardis water use:
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/columns/2016/08/11/oklahoma-officials-reveal-details-of-historic-water-rights-agreement/60658016007/

Can the title of this thread be changed to something more generic? It has been years since it was at low enough water levels a release might be necessary due to that.

For Powell and Mead, the biggest user is ag. Residences and Commercial are drops in the bucket here. Commercial spaces like those Vegas Strip hotels cycle the water in those fountains and do all sorts of things to help conserve. Residences can apply low flow, pull out grass, etc. They can really make an impact with little effort.

But what do you do about ag? We can't just cut them off, they feed the country. You can't bury pipes to avoid using sprinkler (which waste most of what they spray) because you'll just plow it up in 6 months. To be honest, if you're looking for a good way to solve this problem, we need a viable commercial solution to watering crops with drip irrigation that is moveable. Think a massive soaker hose that can be automatically deployed and retracted easily and cheaply.

And to be honest, farms that grow things like Almonds that eat up an insane amount of water, would be affected by consumer demand. So you personally have a part in the crisis no matter where you live. If you want to have almonds and whatever outside of the growing season and regardless of the impact, then you're paying for it in this way. Those farmers could pivot (although it would not be cheap) to another crop, hopefully one that is not so water thirsty.

But we can't just point our fingers at the California ag and say "its your fault" because we put it there and we're now dependent on it. With the climate change we have that also doesn't seem to be going anywhere, it's time to re-think everything.

That is a really interesting document, thanks for sharing it.

Also mentions a potential reservoir site near Washington in McClain County. That's interesting.

I feel like the quicker we can build the additional reservoirs, the better it will be for us in the long run. We can't wait until we have a crisis to start the process.

I feel like the quicker we can build the additional reservoirs, the better it will be for us in the long run. We can't wait until we have a crisis to start the process.

They are NOT cheap, and it would be hard to justify an expense of that magnitude right now, in my opinion.

For Powell and Mead, the biggest user is ag. Residences and Commercial are drops in the bucket here. Commercial spaces like those Vegas Strip hotels cycle the water in those fountains and do all sorts of things to help conserve. Residences can apply low flow, pull out grass, etc. They can really make an impact with little effort.

But what do you do about ag? We can't just cut them off, they feed the country. You can't bury pipes to avoid using sprinkler (which waste most of what they spray) because you'll just plow it up in 6 months. To be honest, if you're looking for a good way to solve this problem, we need a viable commercial solution to watering crops with drip irrigation that is moveable. Think a massive soaker hose that can be automatically deployed and retracted easily and cheaply.

And to be honest, farms that grow things like Almonds that eat up an insane amount of water, would be affected by consumer demand. So you personally have a part in the crisis no matter where you live. If you want to have almonds and whatever outside of the growing season and regardless of the impact, then you're paying for it in this way. Those farmers could pivot (although it would not be cheap) to another crop, hopefully one that is not so water thirsty.

But we can't just point our fingers at the California ag and say "its your fault" because we put it there and we're now dependent on it. With the climate change we have that also doesn't seem to be going anywhere, it's time to re-think everything.

Interesting post. It all tracks. And of course (for instance) almond production is incentivized by people abandoning flatulent dairy cattle in favor of almond milk. Makes them feel better about themselves, and who doesn’t want that? Almond butter as a replacement for peanut butter, moving the water consumption ever so slightly west with every jar sold. A percentage point west, maybe, over time. Avocados replacing French Fries because…they’re a superfood and…nowadays we like superfoods. Ever seen how much water it takes to grow an avocado? Never mind, we love it. We saw it on Instagram.

The law of unintended consequences. EVERYTHING WE DO has consequences.

Interesting post. It all tracks. And of course (for instance) almond production is incentivized by people abandoning flatulent dairy cattle in favor of almond milk. Makes them feel better about themselves, and who doesn’t want that? Almond butter as a replacement for peanut butter, moving the water consumption ever so slightly west with every jar sold. A percentage point west, maybe, over time. Avocados replacing French Fries because…they’re a superfood and…nowadays we like superfoods. Ever seen how much water it takes to grow an avocado? Never mind, we love it. We saw it on Instagram.

The law of unintended consequences. EVERYTHING WE DO has consequences.

Reminds me of that show 'The Good Place', haha.

there is a huge aquifer that feeds Draper lake which is why it is full. The city is building a huge pipeline that will transfer water to the Hefner and Overholser.

Hefner should be made deeper.

The North end, at the dam, is deep, but the South end is very shallow. I used to get my sailboat stuck on sandbars on the south end, had to jump out and into the water, and I'd be maybe chest deep.

Hefner should be made deeper.

The North end, at the dam, is deep, but the South end is very shallow. I used to get my sailboat stuck on sandbars on the south end, had to jump out and into the water, and I'd be maybe chest deep.

I often wondered why they don't dredge some of the shallow areas when the lake is so low. They could vastly increase the capacity.

I often wondered why they don't dredge some of the shallow areas when the lake is so low. They could vastly increase the capacity.

It hasn't been anywhere near anything considered "low" in almost 6 years.

i'd have to think that there are challenges in dredging a reservoir that is actively used for drinking water as it would stir up tons of sediment. i think overholser has been dredged in the past, but given its smaller size i'd think it could be temporarily removed from the water system as the particulates settle out... i'm not sure that could be done with hefner.

i'd have to think that there are challenges in dredging a reservoir that is actively used for drinking water as it would stir up tons of sediment. i think overholser has been dredged in the past, but given its smaller size i'd think it could be temporarily removed from the water system as the particulates settle out... i'm not sure that could be done with hefner.I was a active member of the Lake Hefner Boat Owners Assn for many years. We pushed for dredging out the shallow areas many times. The sediment both contaminating the water and fouling the pumps and equipment were the reasons the city said they'd never do it.

Interesting post. It all tracks. And of course (for instance) almond production is incentivized by people abandoning flatulent dairy cattle in favor of almond milk. Makes them feel better about themselves, and who doesn’t want that? Almond butter as a replacement for peanut butter, moving the water consumption ever so slightly west with every jar sold. A percentage point west, maybe, over time. Avocados replacing French Fries because…they’re a superfood and…nowadays we like superfoods. Ever seen how much water it takes to grow an avocado? Never mind, we love it. We saw it on Instagram.

The law of unintended consequences. EVERYTHING WE DO has consequences.

a certain segment of the electorate fundamentally doesn't believe in trade offs. it's always zero sum.
green energy = always good.
O&G = always bad.
almond milk = always good
cows = always bad.

^^^^^^^
Nuance and perspective are completely lost in today's world. Especially in the U.S..

So, apparently this happened…OKC requested water from Lake Canton, the gates were opened, then closed until further review.

TULSA, Okla. – Water releases from Canton Lake requested by the City of Oklahoma City for water supply began Aug. 3rd but were soon halted because of administrative issues outside of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Tulsa District authority.

There is a high degree of public interest in the Canton Lake pool and the City of Oklahoma City’s right to withdraw water. Because of this the Canton Lake Advisory Committee comprised of the Oklahoma Water Resources Board, the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation, the Canton Lake Association and the Tulsa District USACE, determined to review the request for withdrawal procedures.

The last significant City of Oklahoma City request was in 2013 and since that time most key personnel involved are new to the process. The Advisory Committee will meet during the week of Aug. 8 – 12, 2022 to confirm procedure and request routing. Once all parties are comfortable, the City of Oklahoma City will resubmit the request for withdrawal.

The Tulsa District USACE and the City of Oklahoma City work together to meet water supply needs. USACE began releasing 10,500 acre-feet of water from Canton Lake into the North Canadian River Aug. 3, 2022. If the releases had continued, the water would have been captured in Lakes Hefner and Overholser. The release had been planned last for 12-14 days and would have lowered the Canton Lake pool by about 1-foot with minimal impact to recreation.

Water supply is one of Canton Lake’s authorized purposes that must be balanced with other purposes in the system of reservoirs. Other purposes include water storage for hydropower, flood risk management, water quality and recreation.

In times of drought, meeting drinking water supply needs is a primary purpose. The Oklahoma City Water Utilities Trust has used water from Canton Lake since the 1950s. Water utility officials meet with representatives from the Oklahoma Water Resources Board, Canton Lake representatives, Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation, and the US Army Corps of Engineers to carefully plan all water releases so they are conducted in the best interest of both lakes and to replenish drinking water supply.

https://www.dvidshub.net/news/426654/water-releases-canton-lake-halted-now?fbclid=IwAR2DtuGgiy2PISkMI9SUPhSNXYM9vmqb110tt Zh_4FvQUK8rr_cdOf8tCYw

The cities need to do a better job of enforcing lawn watering restrictions.

Almost nobody pays any attention the mandatory even/odd conservation plan that is now in place. The same plan is in effect in OKC, Edmond, Norman, Yukon, Mustang and Deer Creek.



In times of drought, meeting drinking water supply needs is a primary purpose.

We are not low on water because people are drinking it.

^^^^ I’ve read that watering residential or commercial lawns makes up a very small amount of the overall water usage and they agricultural is the main culprit.

The cities need to do a better job of enforcing lawn watering restrictions.

Almost nobody pays any attention the mandatory even/odd conservation plan that is now in place. The same plan is in effect in OKC, Edmond, Norman, Yukon, Mustang and Deer Creek.



Is this your observation or from study by others? I’m on my 4th sprinkler controller that has the feature built in to the programming and I use it. I swapped out the first one because it did not.

(Controllers over the last few years, swapped to add odd even capability, added zones, replaced with smart Wi-Fi and weather watch, added a master valve.)

Is this your observation or from study by others? I’m on the 4th or 5th sprinkler controller that has the feature built in to the programming and I use it. I swapped out the first one because it did not.

Observation. I walk every early morning past hundreds of houses and I see many/most not following the mandate.

Observation. I walk every early morning past hundreds of houses and I see many/most not following the mandate.

Me too. I went grocery shopping about 9 yesterday morning. I passed a half dozen odd numbered houses watering on an even day. But only one was an automatic system. The rest were hose and sprinklers.

Observation. I walk every early morning past hundreds of houses and I see many/most not following the mandate.

Even more aggravating is to see how many lawn sprinklers run during the intense heat of the afternoon...ugh! Most of the water they are using disappears due to evaporation. Recently, while driving on north May near Rose Creek, there were many running their sprinklers at 3:30 in the afternoon. Such a ridiculous waste of water!!

Even more aggravating is to see how many lawn sprinklers run during the intense heat of the afternoon...ugh! Most of the water they are using disappears due to evaporation. Recently, while driving on north May near Rose Creek, there were many running their sprinklers at 3:30 in the afternoon. Such a ridiculous waste of water!!

Actually running your sprinklers for a very short time during the heat of the day has a nice cooling effect for the turf. I don’t condone watering a lot during this time of day, but in short instances it will reduce stress on the turf.

I say this as someone who does have a nice green suburban lawn (had a very mature yard when I purchased the house that I have kept up) — it’s time to significantly change the idea of a green lawn. In many parts of the county, including Oklahoma it is just not natural.

Every year I let more and more of my yard die and replace with rocks. I live in a semi-desert environment and it takes a lot of effort to keep the grass green. I have reduced my grass by about 50% over the last 3 years replacing with rocks. This winter I am going to let my backyard completely die as it struggles the most. I will replace some of the area with artificial turf so my dogs have something natural-ish. But I will fill most of it in with rock. This will reduce my yard by another 50% for a total reduction of 75% or so from when I purchased. In the front lawn I have a few areas I will let die also and replace with rock. The remaining area will be a small well shaded area that requires very little water to maintain.

Yards just consume so many resources for what is largely just a vanity thing.

Big, always green lawns are very much an American thing. It's not only the massive amount of water being dumped every day, it's also all the fertilizers and pesticides that do all sorts of harm.

Everywhere else not only do you have smaller lot sizes, but you have more natural landscaping and growth supported only by natural rainfall.


Great podcast episode from Freakanomics:


Every square foot of turf grass requires 28 gallons of water per year.

How Stupid is Our Obsession With Lawns? (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=32512&page=86&p=1211111#post1211111)

Big, always green lawns are very much an American thing. It's not only the massive amount of water being dumped every day, it's also all the fertilizers and pesticides that do all sorts of harm.

Everywhere else not only do you have smaller lot sizes, but you have more natural landscaping and growth supported only by natural rainfall.


Great podcast episode from Freakanomics:



How Stupid is Our Obsession With Lawns? (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=32512&page=86&p=1211111#post1211111)

Visit Lawrence KS a lot, really nice food culture. The older east side (of Massachusetts Street), is a neighborhood of non grass landscaping. Really very nice change from grass lawns being pounded with synthetic fertilizer, and weed killers. But in the led up to the Abortion Bill, didn’t see one yes vote, only no signs, so could lawn gardening be political?

Lawn watering only accounts for 3.5 to 5% of water use in California. That wouldn’t change anything if we were ever in a dire situation where water wouldn’t come out of our faucets. This thing about wanting to end the tradition of having large green lawns will help the environment about as much as banning plastic straws. Just more meaningless moves so politicians can look like they’re doing something.

https://ucanr.edu/sites/UrbanHort/Water_Use_of_Turfgrass_and_Landscape_Plant_Materia ls/Drought_and_Landscape_Water_Use_-_Some_Persspective/?sharebar=share

Lawn watering only accounts for 3.5 to 5% of water use in California. That wouldn’t change anything if we were ever in a dire situation where water wouldn’t come out of our faucets. This thing about wanting to end the tradition of having large green lawns will help the environment about as much as banning plastic straws. Just more meaningless moves so politicians can look like they’re doing something.

https://ucanr.edu/sites/UrbanHort/Water_Use_of_Turfgrass_and_Landscape_Plant_Materia ls/Drought_and_Landscape_Water_Use_-_Some_Persspective/?sharebar=share

We're not talking about California. And believe me, long before you were ever there, tons of measures were taken to reduce household water consumption, including spending millions on incentives toward getting homeowners to switch to low-water yards and landscaping. And, of course, every bit of agriculture in California -- of which there is absolute tons -- is done through irrigation. California is in no way comparable to Oklahoma.

In and around OKC, we're in a serious drought, trying to transfer water from other reservoirs, and of course the majority is being poured onto grass. Where else would it be going? Drinking fountains?

We're not talking about California. And believe me, long before you were ever there, tons of measures were taken to reduce household water consumption, including spending millions on incentives toward getting homeowners to switch to low-water yards and landscaping. And, of course, every bit of agriculture in California -- of which there is absolute tons -- is done through irrigation. California is in no way comparable to Oklahoma.

In and around OKC, we're in a serious drought, trying to transfer water from other reservoirs, and of course the majority is being poured onto grass. Where else would it be going? Drinking fountains?

Showers, baths and toilets, gardens, business and industrial uses, pools, laundry, dishwashers and l'm sure others l haven't thought of. In Oklahoma's part of the country, water transfers from places with excess water only makes sense. But watering restrictions and enforcement should be the norm during dry times.

We're not talking about California. And believe me, long before you were ever there, tons of measures were taken to reduce household water consumption, including spending millions on incentives toward getting homeowners to switch to low-water yards and landscaping. And, of course, every bit of agriculture in California -- of which there is absolute tons -- is done through irrigation. California is in no way comparable to Oklahoma.

In and around OKC, we're in a serious drought, trying to transfer water from other reservoirs, and of course the majority is being poured onto grass. Where else would it be going? Drinking fountains?
Agriculture, restaurants and hospitality use a sh!t ton of water, there’s more to water usage than just watering lawns and drinking water.

This article claims 50-70% of watering lawn use in Oklahoma is for lawns: https://okepscor.github.io/watercalc/

I’d like to see sources cited for that. I’m sure that water usage in Oklahoma is vastly different than California’s but Oklahoma is not in a doomsday scenario or anywhere close to it. There’s not even an exceptional drought classification anywhere in the state. https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/

I’m not here to be argumentative but it’s tiring to see the same line that watering lawns accounts for such a huge number when in reality it only accounts for a third of all residential use in the United States. That’s only a small part of the overall water usage in the country anyways.

https://ensia.com/articles/water-use/

I’m not saying it wouldn’t help to conserve water or switch to xeriscaping for those who want to do it. But out west there’s insane proposals to ban lawns which is asinine, IMO. We need to tackle the biggest culprits which are unsustainable agricultural practices and a massive waste problem it supports where tons of food is thrown away. Anyone who’s ever worked recently in the food industry can attest to that.

The drought will go away and come back. Oklahoma, the entire country rather, needs to be looking at dealing with climate change and the issues it will cause because we aren’t stopping it. You aren’t getting enough people to change their habits to reduce the carbon footprint enough to change it nor are the BRIC countries doing enough to reduce their footprint like the US or EU is. China already accounts for 30 percent of global emissions and is rising. We need to invest more in water infrastructure and like what’s said earlier in this thread we will have an “interstates for water infrastructure” plan long before the situation gets dire.

Water is extremely abundant. We just need to build more desalination plants find ways to distribute it.

Oklahoma like every other state downstream of Colorado need to realize we are having drier, shorter, and warmer winters and sporadic, unreliable monsoon cycles. Our snowpack can’t sustain all of these states downstream of us forever at current usages when taking into account less snowpack, faster melt times, and drier summers of our own.

Even if lawn usage accounts for 3% of Oklahoma water usage (I don’t buy that number given our lack of heavy industry and aquifer fed farming) , every drop really does matter. Most of the water in the southwestern part of the country comes from Colorado. Even Tulsa’s Arkansas river comes from Colorado headwaters. We have strict water restrictions of our so we can pass on water downstream. It sucks for Colorado to have to make sacrifices just to watch users downstream waste it away.

Oklahoma like every other state downstream of Colorado need to realize we are having drier, shorter, and warmer winters and sporadic, unreliable monsoon cycles. Our snowpack can’t sustain all of these states downstream of us forever at current usages when taking into account less snowpack, faster melt times, and drier summers of our own.

Even if lawn usage accounts for 3% of Oklahoma water usage (I don’t buy that number given our lack of heavy industry and aquifer fed farming) , every drop really does matter. Most of the water in the southwestern part of the country comes from Colorado. Even Tulsa’s Arkansas river comes from Colorado headwaters. We have strict water restrictions of our so we can pass on water downstream. It sucks for Colorado to have to make sacrifices just to watch users downstream waste it away.

We are okay on drinking water.

I do call it the " Colorado Dividend ", being downstream of the Rocky mountain runoff.

Oklahoma like every other state downstream of Colorado need to realize we are having drier, shorter, and warmer winters and sporadic, unreliable monsoon cycles. Our snowpack can’t sustain all of these states downstream of us forever at current usages when taking into account less snowpack, faster melt times, and drier summers of our own.

Even if lawn usage accounts for 3% of Oklahoma water usage (I don’t buy that number given our lack of heavy industry and aquifer fed farming) , every drop really does matter. Most of the water in the southwestern part of the country comes from Colorado. Even Tulsa’s Arkansas river comes from Colorado headwaters. We have strict water restrictions of our so we can pass on water downstream. It sucks for Colorado to have to make sacrifices just to watch users downstream waste it away.
I never said Oklahoma lawn water usage makes up 3%. The number I gave is from an article claiming 50-70 percent. You buy that number?

I never said Oklahoma lawn water usage makes up 3%. The number I gave is from an article claiming 50-70 percent. You buy that number?

I don't buy that number at all. In my neighborhood, I never see people watering. Now, I don't live in an upper middle class neighborhood either. Oklahoma gets most of it's water from spring and early summer rainstorms. We're in a La Nina cycle right now, and La Nina's can offer up drier springs and summers like we've had this year. Then, when we go back into a neutral Enso or an El Nino, it's far more rainy and any drought is broken. For the most part, drought in the southern plains is temporary. Though, we can go into couple or few year droughts from time to time. Having a lawn here isn't that bad. People just need to be smart about watering it. Now, if we were in Phoenix, that would be a different story simply because of how hot it get every summer. I do wish Oklahoma would build a couple more reservoirs. We're going to need them eventually. There have been plans to expand one reservoir and build another in California for decades, but it's never been done. Now, they're paying for it and will for years to come.

I never said Oklahoma lawn water usage makes up 3%. The number I gave is from an article claiming 50-70 percent. You buy that number?

I believe it.

Only 18% of Oklahoma's cropland is irrigated.

Where do you think all the water is going? If you walk every early morning as I do, you'll see half the houses pumping tons of water on their lawns.

Not sure what the percentage could possibly be. But I know Saturday we used 337 gallons by watering two flower beds in the front yard for about a half hour each. I can imagine what watering the yard would use. We used 70 Sunday doing a couple loads of laundry and running the dishwasher. Both days of course also had normal stuff like flushing toilets and showers.

OKC and Oklahoma has plenty of water.

That flood a few years ago on Lake Keystone, just the water coming through the flood gates alone could have filled both Lake Powell and Lake Mead in 25 days.

While 350 gallons sounds like a lot, it isn't. One acre foot is 325,000. Arcadia Lake has 30,000 acre feet, Thunder bird has 100,000 acre feet, Hefner has around 70,000 acre feet. The bigger lakes like Eufula, Texoma, Grand all have over 2,000,000 acre feet.

The water problems start in the mountain time zone. The Colorado compacts are going to be renegotiated at some point. The country has a ton of water, just all of it in the wrong spots.

And with a decent network of reservoirs and pumps, "all the wrong spots" is a completely fixable problem. Oklahoma simply (and I say simply and it is not simple at all) needs to figure out the issue of sovereign tribal rights to water. As I said years earlier in this thread, the concept of tribal sovereign rights to water under the Winters doctrine only permitted the tribes so much water rights as would be required ot irrigate the arable land in their territory. In much of eastern Oklahoma, additional irrigation is not always necessary as they have plenty of rainfall. And even if we allot them all of the water they need to irrigate their arable land, there's plenty of water left over for the State to appropriate.

All of this talk about xeriscaping and conservation is highly premature. As our water resources become better developed, it's not as if we can xeriscape our yard in OKC and then someone in Las Vegas can take a shower. We either use our water resources or they don't get used. I, for one, enjoy a thick, luscious stand of grass in my yard.

^^^^ +1