Once the water hits the Red River, it is essentially worthless, because the Red River is saline. This is the argument the fractastic oligarchs of Oklahoma have made, because they want the water to frack the everloving frack out of North Texas / Southern Oklahoma.

problem is its a hell of a lot more expensive to pump water up hill than it is to let it flow naturally to you :)

It is hard to let it flow naturally when the times it is needed are also the times it is least likely to be available. They have been pumping water much of the time from Atoka since the last time the pipes were serviced, there has been only a handful of releases from Canton in the last several years, most of that time Lake Atoka was at or near full.

Also there are now complications when trying to add capacity to a system that is a lower quality (by EPA standards) than what you already have, side note there is some cost offset in the processing starting with higher quality water sources. Generally for OKC this makes it easier to add from anywhere east of us. If Canton were not already a source it might not be feasible to add today.

Drove by the canal on north side of Overholser about 30 minutes ago and it was full. I assume some of that is still going into Hefner. So we can now declare all city lakes full with more rain coming. Where will this new water go? Downstream as there is no storage capacity in OKC left. So it's not that we don't have the water it's that we just don't have enough storage.Since it looks like they will be able to they will probably let Hefner get a couple of feet higher. I've had a boat in a wet slip for years and seen it a few times right up to the bottom of the concrete docks. This puts a couple of roads and part of the multi-purpose trail right at water level or a couple inches below water level which can be bad for some users. But since the lake has been low for awhile and the water's available now I bet they top it off.

I rented a cabin for my family near Broken Bow Lake this weekend. I was informed that we cannot rent a boat because the lake is 22 feet above normal. They cannot open the floodgates because there is so much water in the Red River basin that it would flood the entire valley. Maybe OKC should get on this pipeline. There is a ton of water in Southeast Oklahoma -- and I would rather the surplus go to OKC than DFW.

The lake was down quite a bit last fall when I was there last. Lots of exposed rocky beach above the water. Not nearly as low as our lakes though.

Eufaula has the dam open to release maximum water without flooding down river, and the lake is still too high. There are many people who cannot even deploy their boats because there is too much water.

Might be the tamest Memorial Day weekend ever, lol!

You're right. If you can't use a timer and follow requirements, a timer shouldn't be used at all. They aren't mandatory no matter how much you paid for them.

After reading this discussion on timers, conservation, and personally observing all the "wasteful" watering during the rain storms, our company is going to start pushing our automatic touch-screen, lawn sprinkler timers more broadly. They are from our Smart Home line, have an app, feature odd/even watering, and so forth. But the coolest thing is that they are plugged in to read NOAA data and therefore automatically disable watering in anticipation of, during, or after rain events depending on the precipitation levels. Pair one of these units with a rain sensor, it's a pretty full proof solution, particularly for commercial properties that may not have the human interaction factor.

I would gladly take any feedback on this. It irritates the hell out of me to sprinklers running when its actually raining or the ground is already saturated. The worst is watching them coat the streets in ice during freezing weather. We live in a world that can be "Smart", we just need to individually invest in it.

The Rain Machine I have installed does that, odd/even, reads weather and adjusts times based on rainfall, temperature and humidity, plus I can access it from my iphone. RainMachine - The Forecast Sprinkler Controller (http://www.rainmachine.com/)

My main sprinkler manual shutoff valve is still in the off position though.

Yes, we use http://www.rainmachine.com/index.html and https://hydrawise.com. Both are great controllers accessible via iPhone.

Our company distributes for both and does installation for those folks who may not know how to replace a controller.

I looked at hydrawise as an option. IIRC, the remote capability runs via their website, which was a deal breaker for me. I think you can program it stand alone but if they go out of business you would lose the remote capability. I've had that happen with other tech stuff.

These units are kind of like Nest thermostats. They will pay for themselves in saved water or avoided fines. Plus, its prudent just to be water conservationist here in Oklahoma.

On the other hand, you can't connect up to the Rain Machine very easy from outside your LAN. It can be done, but I haven't, and haven't found the need yet. It's in my detached garage and I can run it from my phone or PC inside the house or in the yard.

Yeah. That is a tough problem for commercial properties that may not have a LAN and WiFi transmitter.

Once the water hits the Red River, it is essentially worthless, because the Red River is saline. This is the argument the fractastic oligarchs of Oklahoma have made, because they want the water to frack the everloving frack out of North Texas / Southern Oklahoma.

Find a source to verify that. The dfw metroplex takes a big delivery of lake texoma water every year.

https://www.facebook.com/OkmulgeeNews/videos/910881788935140/?type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/OkmulgeeNews/videos/910881788935140/?type=1&theater

Wowee!

And more water coming their way. What to do with all that water. Too bad that water couldn't be released into Canton lake for about 20 minutes.

And more water coming their way. What to do with all that water. Too bad that water couldn't be released into Canton lake for about 20 minutes.

It's doing an acre foot a second. 3600 acre feet an hour, would not take very long.

It's doing an acre foot a second. 3600 acre feet an hour, would not take very long.

Close to 1.5 acre-feet per second if you include the turbine discharge. I've been thinking about driving out there this weekend to check it out, not sure it is worth the 5 hour round trip, though. Especially since all the parks are probably under water.

Hefner over full.

Holiday weekend coming and lakes are flooded. What will all these people do now? I assume that the boat ramps are closed and the camp sites are underwater so what the heck will these campers do? Maybe they should all load up and go to Canton? Great idea folks! Forget the eastern lakes and go to Canton and help the economy and maybe some of those folks that live around there will think a little better of us city folk. It appears that Canton missed out on the heavy rains again today.

Holiday weekend coming and lakes are flooded. What will all these people do now? I assume that the boat ramps are closed and the camp sites are underwater so what the heck will these campers do? Maybe they should all load up and go to Canton? Great idea folks! Forget the eastern lakes and go to Canton and help the economy and maybe some of those folks that live around there will think a little better of us city folk. It appears that Canton missed out on the heavy rains again today.

Stay home or stay in their RV's since its going to probably be a washout this weekend.

I think the canton watershed has been doing ok this year compared to previous years. The lake has actually come up about 3.5 ft since late April. Unfortunately, it is about 32% full. It will come back at some point, but it will be slow process.

Canton Lake (http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/CANT.lakepage.html)

Was told water will go over Dennison dam Friday at Lake Texoma. I'm sure all marina's will be closed.

Was told water will go over Dennison dam Friday at Lake Texoma. I'm sure all marina's will be closed.

First time since 2007?

First time since 2007?

Yep and only the 4th time ever.

Was told water will go over Dennison dam Friday at Lake Texoma. I'm sure all marina's will be closed.

Tulsa District Flood Status Update May 20 > Tulsa District > Tulsa District News Stories (http://www.swt.usace.army.mil/Media/NewsStories/tabid/4953/Article/588900/tulsa-district-flood-status-update-may-20.aspx)

Looks like they are projecting it to go 1.5 feet above the top of the spillway. Spillway is 2000' wide, should be a pretty impressive sight.

Major flooding event predicted for Red River. They are making preliminary calls for evacuation. The next few days will determine how bad this gets, but I got chills reading the Shreveport NOAA forecast, affecting Northeast Texas, Southeast Oklahoma, Southwest Arkansas, and Northwest Louisiana. Wouldn't want to live anywhere near the Red River in those locations right now.

Canton is now at 45,015 acre-feet.

When OKC drew in 2013, it was 52,105 (-13.6%) and the low point it hit was 24,793 (+81.6%)

At the beginning of April, Canton was at 32,879 which would be down 36.9% , from the 2013 extraction level. The lake has also had an increase of 36.9% since April 1st.

Canton would need 58.4% of the rain they have received since April 1st to reach the 2013 extraction level. Canton is not going to be full for a long time, but it's nice to see that there's a chance that the used water will be replaced within a 3 to 5 year period.

Yeah, besides the fact that the Canton watershed is small (and absorbent) - and that the area has been left out of some of the soakers we've had this year - the lake itself is MUCH larger than OKC-area lakes. It simply takes much, MUCH more to fill. Considering its location, the lake just isn't set up to recharge as quickly as those in the eastern part of the state.

After following this closely for some time, the statement someone made up thread about the lake being built not as a reservoir as much as for downstream flood control makes a lot of sense. Sadly, I'm not sure it is realistic to expect it to regularly be "full."

Storm today has been almost at a stand still on the west side of the state. Canton is getting a ton of rain.

Just saw crest warnings for the Wash (oops, I forgot, we can't say the name of the river) at Anadarko and Lindsay. We drove down to the river on the south side of Lindsay. It's way up.

Farther downstream the river goes through its big canyon (south of Dougherty). I bet it's really rolling over the rapids; I'll call someone on the train to verify. (You cannot see it from any highway.)

Just saw crest warnings for the Wash (oops, I forgot, we can't say the name of the river) at Anadarko and Lindsay. We drove down to the river on the south side of Lindsay. It's way up.

Farther downstream the river goes through its big canyon (south of Dougherty). I bet it's really rolling over the rapids; I'll call someone on the train to verify. (You cannot see it from any highway.)

Big Canyon is a cool spot many don't know about unless you've taken Amtrak down that way which goes through it. I would imagine it's pretty dangerous to kayak right now but I know people have done it at lower levels because of the rapids in that area. Here is a video of a kayaker doing it at 400 cfs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzcGvokvP1w

Canton lake getting a real soaker today,prob the biggest rains of the year for them. Lake is rising rapidly.

Canton lake getting a real soaker today,prob the biggest rains of the year for them. Lake is rising rapidly.Wow! It's up almost a foot just today. From just above 1604.8 to just a bit below 1605.8. That's as much today as in the last three weeks. Good for Canton!

Lake Hefner had a sharp jump in water level since this storm started today and is now officially "over" the full level.

Lake Hefner had a sharp jump in water level since this storm started today and is now officially "over" the full level.

Where are you seeing this, the USGS still lists it as 98% of normal

Where are you seeing this, the USGS still lists it as 98% of normal

USGS Current Conditions for USGS 07159550 Lake Hefner at Oklahoma City, OK (http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/uv?site_no=07159550)

The water level % only updates once a day at 0500 (I believe). If you go down to the charts you can see the hourly readings for the water level. The lake was at 1,199.06 at 1900, so it will be interesting to see if the last hour made it jump even more (full is 1,199.0).

Much more coming in also. It will be well above full as are the rest of the city area lakes. No water shortage in OKC.

As of 11p tonight, Lake Texoma has about 5.2 inches until it reaches the top of the spillway.
At it's 11p level, Lake Texoma is holding about 1.609 trillion gallons of water, almost twice as much as normal! Normal is about 848 billion gallons.
In one hour, between 10p and 11p, the lake added 1 billion gallons of water.

too bad we can't move some of the overages in water in the east (Eufaula, Texoma, RS Kerr) over to the lakes of the west: Canton, Altus, Meridian, so on. ... Only hope the storms decide to continue to dump on the west for a week or so - then all of the state (and region) will be well suited and perhaps even the aquifer can get recharged a bit. ...

hopefully cities can better manage water during the next hot season (next year or thereafter).

too bad we can't move some of the overages in water in the east (Eufaula, Texoma, RS Kerr) over to the lakes of the west: Canton, Altus, Meridian, so on. ... Only hope the storms decide to continue to dump on the west for a week or so - then all of the state (and region) will be well suited and perhaps even the aquifer can get recharged a bit. ...

hopefully cities can better manage water during the next hot season (next year or thereafter).

It looks like this one is at least hitting Canton well, these last couple storms may push it to around 40%

Canton quickly approaching pre 2013 drain levels. The good thing is that OKC doesn't need any of our water from Canton anytime soon so hopefully it will keep going up. Would like to see it get around 50% capacity before summer hits. Then maybe up to 60-65% during fall rains. If this would happen another good spring could get it back close to normal levels. Yes,I am optimistic.

Canton quickly approaching pre 2013 drain levels. The good thing is that OKC doesn't need any of our water from Canton anytime soon so hopefully it will keep going up. Would like to see it get around 50% capacity before summer hits. Then maybe up to 60-65% during fall rains. If this would happen another good spring could get it back close to normal levels. Yes,I am optimistic.

The ironic thing is that the 2013 drain took place just a few weeks before the May 31, 2013 flooding completely filled up lake Hefner. In hindsight, releasing water from Canton was unnecessary.

The ironic thing is that the 2013 drain took place just a few weeks before the May 31, 2013 flooding completely filled up lake Hefner. In hindsight, releasing water from Canton was unnecessary.

They filled it because of a filming contract for the film 'Rudderless'. IIRC

Yes the movie was the real reason behind the drain. If they could have held off a while longer Hefner would have filled from the rains and Canton would be full or near full today. But Canton is closing in on 40% full now so there is hope for this lake afterall. Some have written it off but it looks like it will come back. Today it's about 9 ft. below normal so it's coming back. As I post they are getting heavy rains over the lake.

They filled it because of a filming contract for the film 'Rudderless'. IIRC

That started as a rumor here, maybe around Canton too, my guess it it has been repeated enough that people against the release now believe it.


Yes the movie was the real reason behind the drain. If they could have held off a while longer Hefner would have filled from the rains and Canton would be full or near full today. But Canton is closing in on 40% full now so there is hope for this lake afterall. Some have written it off but it looks like it will come back. Today it's about 9 ft. below normal so it's coming back. As I post they are getting heavy rains over the lake.

It was either make the decision then to do it then or most likely not have an option to release for months, Hefner and Overholser were very low at the time and it was an unknown how much rain we might actually get. The forecasted storms had the potential to be good but it also had the potential to blow right over or never materialized, like others had in weeks leading up to that. If they went at that time the weather conditions were favorable to get a good percentage of release to reach Overholser/Hefner, if they waited to see how much rain the storm produced the forecasted conditions after the storm expected they would get a drastically lower yield. Groups who manage water resources tend to be cautious and take the less risky option.

Today, I drove west on Sorghum Mill (one mile south of Waterloo / Logan county line) and between May and Portland there were hundreds of acres of farmland completely underwater.

Saw more of the same along Portland / H74 slightly south of Sorghum Mill.

In all my days, I've never seen anything like it. Full quarter sections of land turned into lakes.

It's amazing to see Pete! It's been almost constantly under since this system started (3 weeks or so
Now) they have huge pumps in a couple areas that help them get the roads clear enough but it will take a while for it all to move out!

I did a bunch of driving around today too. Pretty impressive amounts of water everywhere. Drove by Ski Island, which had a ton of water going over the spillway, probably a few inches over the top of the spillway. The dam at Overholser had one of the large river gates pulled all the way out of the water (plus the smaller gates between the two large ones), pretty impressive. The amount of trash and debris both upstream and downstream of the dam will make you sad for humanity, though. Quite a few tires, coolers, a ton of styrofoam and even a Hot Water Heater!

Eufaula has opened their gates to 12.5 feet, flowing 172K CFS per second including the turbines. That's over 14,000 acre-feet per hour, and the lake still isn't going down. At that rate it could completely fill Lake Hefner from empty in about 5 hours.

Also check out the elevation jump at Thunderbird last night, jumped 4 feet in less than 12 hours.

http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/images/x-y/THUN.hp.png

Today, I drove west on Sorghum Mill (one mile south of Waterloo / Logan county line) and between May and Portland there were hundreds of acres of farmland completely underwater.

Saw more of the same along Portland / H74 slightly south of Sorghum Mill.

In all my days, I've never seen anything like it. Full quarter sections of land turned into lakes.

I saw almost exactly the same thing in probably 1989 or 1990 when delivering lumber for an Edmond lumberyard (with CT's son), in almost the same places you describe. That's probably the last time it happened, though I also remember a spring in the mid-to-late nineties when it rained for weeks with no letup. I never made it up north to see if the roads and pastureland up there had flooded, though.

BG918 (and any other interested party): I called my contact on the Flyer and was advised that the train did not run on Saturday. There was a washout south of Gainesville a few days ago. BNSF did a fix and the next freight promptly derailed. One Amtrak source said they hope to have it fixed by Tuesday; another laughed it off "right!" Of course we know that the line is washed out in Purcell (pesky Walnut Creek) and it looks like that will take a while to fix.

Thunderbird was over Alameda for a large stretch of the street out at the twin bridges. A few days back, a road bordering the grade school my kiddos attended in the 90's was knee high on a grownup and drivers with too little knowledge/sense were swamping cars on W Main at NHS and up the street on N Berry, among other places. Been here 29 years and I've never seen this level of flooding in so many places here in Norman.

Family in SE OK and over in/near The Fort report problems in their area as well. It's a hot wet mess most everywhere it seems. :(

More rain coming today , down around Anadarko right now heading this way. Then more for the week.

Makes me think about the old Johnny Cash tune. "How highs the Water Momma"

I was down in southeastern Oklahoma over the weekend and the flooding is unbelievable!

That started as a rumor here, maybe around Canton too, my guess it it has been repeated enough that people against the release now believe it.



It was either make the decision then to do it then or most likely not have an option to release for months, Hefner and Overholser were very low at the time and it was an unknown how much rain we might actually get. The forecasted storms had the potential to be good but it also had the potential to blow right over or never materialized, like others had in weeks leading up to that. If they went at that time the weather conditions were favorable to get a good percentage of release to reach Overholser/Hefner, if they waited to see how much rain the storm produced the forecasted conditions after the storm expected they would get a drastically lower yield. Groups who manage water resources tend to be cautious and take the less risky option.

It's pretty obvious it was part of the timing decision but in the end, hardly anyone cares (except for some people in Canton.) It was reckless management of our drinking water IMO. We might not have gotten enough rain later in the spring to fill the lakes but if we didn't get enough rain to fill the lakes, it was very likely we would have gotten enough rain to wait on moving the water and still have an opportunity to move it with little loss. The city and state had made commitments to the film makers though and were/are trying to promote film making in Oklahoma, film incentives from the state, right to film contracts with the water trust. If we had anyone in journalism worth their salt, they would do a freedom of information request to the water trust and the film commission for related emails and documents.

Lake altus' inflow has surged to almost 10,000 cfs. It's only 7 feet from being full. An incredible comeback.

It's pretty obvious it was part of the timing decision but in the end, hardly anyone cares (except for some people in Canton.) It was reckless management of our drinking water IMO. We might not have gotten enough rain later in the spring to fill the lakes but if we didn't get enough rain to fill the lakes, it was very likely we would have gotten enough rain to wait on moving the water and still have an opportunity to move it with little loss. The city and state had made commitments to the film makers though and were/are trying to promote film making in Oklahoma, film incentives from the state, right to film contracts with the water trust. If we had anyone in journalism worth their salt, they would do a freedom of information request to the water trust and the film commission for related emails and documents.

Do you have ANY real evidence or is this just a conspiracy theory? Maybe we haven't seen a story on it because there isn't any.

Do you have ANY real evidence or is this just a conspiracy theory? Maybe we haven't seen a story on it because there isn't any.

Anything is possible, it could be total coincidence. But some things are obvious. One doesn't shut down a lake for filming without months of prep and coordination and agreements with the managing entities. The lake was dry, IIRC, they couldn't have gotten the boats out of the slips for shooting those related scenes.

Rudderless is one of the poster children for the film and music commission. Oklahoma Film & Music Office (http://www.ok.gov/triton/search.php?cref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ok.gov%2Ftriton%2 Fcse_search_xml.php?site=http://www.ok.gov/oklahomafilm/*&sitesearch=http://www.ok.gov/oklahomafilm/&q=rudderless&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_occt=any&sort=&num=10&cof=FORID%3A9%3BNB%3A1#947) Rudderless was in the queue at least as far back 2012: http://www.ok.gov/oklahomafilm/documents/Advisory%20Board%20Minutes%20-%20November%2013%202012.pdf

Do you think everyone involved from the director on down to the trust were just sitting on their hands waiting for rain and considering alternate locations while the shooting dates approached and the lake looked like Mars? Then the water trust, the managing entity for one of the primary shoot locations, just happened to make a completely unrelated decision to move the water, coincidentally, just in the nick of time for the shooting schedule.

I'm sorry maybe I'm super naive but I have a hard time believing our city made any water decision based on a small independent movie that not many people will ever see. This wasn't JJ Abrams shooting Star Wars in OKC. The movie had a $5 million budget for heaven's sake.

I'm sorry maybe I'm super naive but I have a hard time believing our city made any water decision based on a small independent movie that not many people will ever see. This wasn't JJ Abrams shooting Star Wars in OKC. The movie had a $5 million budget for heaven's sake.

Its a big deal to a state that doesn't see that many movies film in it. We get excited just seeing a reality show about the monument guys down in Norman.