I believe it was built or proposed during FDR Administration (Canton). Several lakes and tributaries need capital improvements. They didn't even enforce crop rotations back then(dust bowl).

Sorry about font size

...I would bet that after this weekend that Hefner is full also. Too bad Canton isn't getting the really heavy stuff like we are...

Based on progress this week I'm not sure it will be FULL, but definitely within shouting distance. In the past week up until this moment (real time) we've picked up about 3' of a 10' deficit. At the rate we're going well probably pick up another 2 or 3 of that once the watershed drains.

Should be no water rations this year in OKC although I know there will be.

There should be anyway, out Bermuda doesn't need daily watering.

And mkjeeves the canal to Hefner was really full at 5 today, and that was before the heavy rain.

Regardless of if their should or shouldn't be, the odd even watering will be in place for many years to come. Regardless of how much rain we get or how full the resivors are and really is that such a bad thing.

Officially crossed the 1192 threshold tonight. Only 7 more feet to go...

It doesn't appear that Canton Lake got nearly the rain we did in the metro area and south west and east areas. Maybe they will get the heavy stuff tomorrow. Would be nice to see Canton hit the 40% mark

Officially crossed the 1192 threshold tonight. Only 7 more feet to go...

If we get another couple rounds of the heavy rains this weekend Hefner might be close to full. I would imagine Hefner will be getting runoff throughout the night. Might be 6 feet by morning?

If we get another couple rounds of the heavy rains this weekend Hefner might be close to full. I would imagine Hefner will be getting runoff throughout the night. Might be 6 feet by morning?

It's at 75 percent right now.

It must be overloading the river and canal or something. Neither Overholser or Hefner are full and they are flowing some of the water through the dam at Overholser.

USGS Current Conditions for USGS 07241000 North Canadian River blw Lk Overholser nr OKC, OK (http://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?07241000)

It is more likely that that is a response to legal requirements to release water due to how long it has been impounded. Overholser is only at 73%, Hefner is at 75%, Eufaula is already above normal in the flood control stage. There was a lot of noise about how stupid the legal regulations are last year when in places they were required to release water from drought areas with critically low lake levels to places that were flooded so bad large areas of cities were underwater with not sign of rain stopping before the released water would hit them.

Hefner closing in on a 6.5' deficit (1199' considered normal elevation):

http://137.227.241.93/nwisweb/data/img/USGS.07159550.01.00065..20150502.20150509..0..gif

Canton better, but not improving very fast (1615.4' or "top of the conservation pool" considered normal):

http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/images/lakes/CANT.lakepage.gif http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/images/x-y/CANT.hp.png

Honestly that seems like poor planning on the part of the Corps of Engineers. Like it was set up for failure. I know that until recent years the rains have been more plentiful and it really wasn't a problem for decades, but when Congress authorized the Lake in 1938 the Dust Bowl was in full effect. They should have known better.I'm not at all sure about this, but it's my understanding that Canton was created primarily for flood control purposes, not as a reservoir. In the 1920s, the North Canadian flooded pretty regularly. One of its rampages actually re-routed its channel through Oklahoma City -- before that, it ran through what is now the fairgrounds! And in the 1930s, it still got pretty wild around Yukon.

Its use as a watter supply for Enid and OKC seems to have been pretty much of an afterthought.

Even the river that cannot be named here (the Wa----a) was pretty wild in the 30s, despite some early soil conservation activity in Roger Mills county (where my father was County Agent in the late 20s, and introduced terracing to reluctant farmers). It's flatly amazing how far toward conservation we've come in the past 70 years or so...

^^^^^^^^
Makes total sense. Also means depending on it for reservoir/recreational/economic purposes has considerable inherent risk.

I love it! The river that cannot be named here. " That river" is up now.

In other news, the rapid elevation change at Hefner courtesy runoff from the past couple days' rain has begun to plateau/taper. Obviously we are about to get some more, but it shows that we are STILL unlikely to make up the full deficit.

I'm not at all sure about this, but it's my understanding that Canton was created primarily for flood control purposes, not as a reservoir. In the 1920s, the North Canadian flooded pretty regularly. One of its rampages actually re-routed its channel through Oklahoma City -- before that, it ran through what is now the fairgrounds! And in the 1930s, it still got pretty wild around Yukon.

Its use as a watter supply for Enid and OKC seems to have been pretty much of an afterthought.

Even the river that cannot be named here (the Wa----a) was pretty wild in the 30s, despite some early soil conservation activity in Roger Mills county (where my father was County Agent in the late 20s, and introduced terracing to reluctant farmers). It's flatly amazing how far toward conservation we've come in the past 70 years or so...

That makes sense, Hefner was pretty much being built concurrently with it, which was a big bump in reservoir capacity over just Overholser. It was another 25 years before they were concerned enough about supply to build Draper.

I'm not at all sure about this, but it's my understanding that Canton was created primarily for flood control purposes, not as a reservoir. In the 1920s, the North Canadian flooded pretty regularly. One of its rampages actually re-routed its channel through Oklahoma City -- before that, it ran through what is now the fairgrounds! And in the 1930s, it still got pretty wild around Yukon.

Its use as a watter supply for Enid and OKC seems to have been pretty much of an afterthought.

Even the river that cannot be named here (the Wa----a) was pretty wild in the 30s, despite some early soil conservation activity in Roger Mills county (where my father was County Agent in the late 20s, and introduced terracing to reluctant farmers). It's flatly amazing how far toward conservation we've come in the past 70 years or so...

That's my understanding. Thought it was bit misleading when the City of OKC gave an update on their Facebook page May 6th saying:
National Weather Service officials called Wednesday night’s flood threat “deadly and dangerous,” issuing a Flash Flood Emergency for the first time in central Oklahoma’s history. I heard that repeated elsewhere too. It might be accurate to say the first time said entity issued an emergency warning but it was not the first time we've had flooding by any means. I believe Oversholser dam was built in part for flood control.

Hefner & Overholser should have plenty enough water to take us through till next spring. The city needs to stop the odd / even watering. That doesn't work and I think makes it worse. People now will water all day off and on on their selected days whereas before most people would water a little in the morning only. Odd/even doesn't work and if they did a study I would bet they would see.

I heard that repeated elsewhere too. It might be accurate to say the first time said entity issued an emergency warning but it was not the first time we've had flooding by any means. I believe Oversholser dam was built in part for flood control.

It probably was the alert equivalent of Tornado Emergence, which was a term only introduced in 1999 by the NWS

A little flood history from Doug Dawgz Blog:

Doug Dawgz Blog: The Oklahoma River, Part 2 (http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2006/08/oklahoma-river-part-2.html)

History of Canton Lake


HISTORY AND DEVELOPMENT - Congress authorized the Canton Lake project in 1938 for flood control. The Flood Control Acts of 1946 and 1948 authorized irrigation and municipal water supply storage for the city of Enid, Okla. Because Enid did not access its storage rights, in 1955 Oklahoma City began a series of 5-year contracts with the federal government to utilize Canton’s water storage. Both the irrigation storage and the water storage were reassigned to Oklahoma City through Section 102 of the Water Resources Development Act of 1990. This project was started in 1940 but World War II temporarily halted construction. After the war, the Corps of Engineers resumed work, and the project was completed in late 1948 and formally dedicated in May of 1949. The cost to build the Canton Project was $11 million.

http://www.swt.usace.army.mil/Locations/TulsaDistrictLakes/Oklahoma/CantonLake/History.aspx

Hefner & Overholser should have plenty enough water to take us through till next spring. The city needs to stop the odd / even watering. That doesn't work and I think makes it worse. People now will water all day off and on on their selected days whereas before most people would water a little in the morning only. Odd/even doesn't work and if they did a study I would bet they would see. I'm curious why you think it doesn't work? To me people will water everyday unless they have a system in place that restricts them regardless if the lawns need it or not but I understand why people wouldn't want it. Yet, if not the odd even what system would you like to see? Water will always be an issue in western plains Oklahoma and unless we want to end up like California it's better to plan ahead.

Really thrilled watching the radar. It looks as though both Lake Altus and Lake Canton's watersheds are getting drenched. Haven't looked at the inflow numbers yet, but hope they are rising.

It's picked up a little over a tenth of an inch today (real-time tracking). Only eleven more feet to go!

http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/images/x-y/CANT.hp.png

It might be accurate to say the first time said entity issued an emergency warning but it was not the first time we've had flooding by any means.Nope, but in the 1920s no such animal as the National Weather Service existed. It was a "bureau" within the Department of the Interior and kept records, but did not issue any sort of warnings.

And with my "editor's eye" I'll note that the current postings don't claim it was the first time OKC had serious flooding, just that it was the first time anyone had issued a "Flash Flood Emergency" warning. That reminds me of some extreme spinning that a software company (which I won't name; many of you may remember the event) did when they released a new version of their flagship operating system. The old version had been plagued by "General Protection Fault" errors, and the company promised that the new version completely eliminated them. It really did, too. They had renamed that error to something else, so the old error message never appeared again.

The error, however, keeps happening to this day; it's now known as "the blue screen."

The "Flash Flood Emergency" warning, I suspect, is a similarly new name for an old message.

But then, I'm a suspicious, one might say cynical, old fogey...

Hefner collection picking up momentum again. Close to passing the six-feet-below normal threshold.

The odd and even system just doesn't work IMO. I don't have numbers to back it up but this is what I see. When it's your day to water people seem to over do it. I see sprinklers running morning noon and night. Before the odd and even was enacted I would see people water their lawns early morning for the most part but that was it. They didn't water all through the day like now. Now you see one side of the street watering off and on all day long and the next day it switches to the other side.

Hefner is filling as I speak. I live a few blocks away and it is really pouring. I bet it has picked up another foot or more already. It looks like it will be running over soon. Water is plentiful in this part of the country. The only reason Canton is so low now is because they wanted it full to film the Rudderless movie. The drought is over.

It be be overflowing soon like it was right after they took the Canton water. The drought is over and things can go back to normal. People over reacted like always. We have plenty of water in this part of the country. We just had a normal drought but it's over.

Hefner collection picking up momentum again. Close to passing the six-feet-below normal threshold.

Anyone here know how low the lake can be and still permit boating?

Another drought busting week coming up. Look at the 10 day forecast for a repeat of this past week. Lets hope that the heavy rains fall over Canton lake because most other lakes are close to full now and the eastern lakes are over full. Lots of water in Oklahoma.

Another drought busting week coming up. Look at the 10 day forecast for a repeat of this past week. Lets hope that the heavy rains fall over Canton lake because most other lakes are close to full now and the eastern lakes are over full. Lots of water in Oklahoma.

and Texas wants it.

and Texas wants it.

Texas can pound sand.

It be be overflowing soon like it was right after they took the Canton water. The drought is over and things can go back to normal. People over reacted like always. We have plenty of water in this part of the country. We just had a normal drought but it's over.

Not necessarily. Or, at least, we've got a ways to go before I am willing to consider it over. We either start learning to conserve better or we're going to have mini-boom mostly bust cycles far more regularly than in the past. We need to get over green grass and lush golf courses.

Saying Oklahoma has no more drought issues remaining based on a few days rain is, my opinion, a tad silly. Lake levels rising, and some criks temporarily overflowing does not equal the death of drought.

On the bright side, no one in the metro should need to water their lawn for the coming week, at a minimum.

Oh betts don't be one of those snobs who turns their nose up at golf courses. You will find many golf superintendents are forward thinking in trying to use less water, kinda like how people bash hunters but don't realize many are some of the best to the land they use.

And I agree, no one should be watering for at LEAST a week if it doesn't rain again

Saying Oklahoma has no more drought issues remaining based on a few days rain is, my opinion, a tad silly. Lake levels rising, and some criks temporarily overflowing does not equal the death of drought.

On the bright side, no one in the metro should need to water their lawn for the coming week, at a minimum.

The new treatment plant can drain the lake at 100,000,000 gallons a day - capable of draining it bone dry in 244 days

Not necessarily. Or, at least, we've got a ways to go before I am willing to consider it over. We either start learning to conserve better or we're going to have mini-boom mostly bust cycles far more regularly than in the past. We need to get over green grass and lush golf courses.

We need to eliminate all golf courses, football fields, baseball fields, and soccer fields. They are the devil. No more swimming pools. No recreation or joy of any kind.

I think we can live somewhere between everyone leaving sprinklers on while it is raining and not allowing anything that might have to be curtailed during a drought in normal years.

However one thing this has made abundantly clear is we need to look more at what sort of policies and incentives/disincentives they can do as the lakes to lower levels and what might be done if they get to a critical state. The hardest thing to over come though is there are very real economic reasons both for commercial and residential uses cities want to wait a little longer to say it is time to do anything to change behavior.

If odd even was done away with I would water fewer days per year because I could set my sprinklers for MWF or TR but the odd even deal makes programming tricky. Of course I could just ignore it and tell some city worker to check my control panel. As it is now when it rains I typically turn it off until my soils dries out.

Betts I didn't mean to me snarky, I know you come from a good place, but we can't all live that perfect urban lifestyle you are able to afford.

I wonder if there are any other decent dam sites west of okc or... if S Canadian water is just too salty to use?

Where is overflow at Hefner released from?

Where is overflow at Hefner released from?

There is no natural flow into it, they have to pump water up to fill it, usually they just stop pumping it in before it overflows then evaporation and the normal draw from the city water department makes more room. There is a small emergency duct (I am not sure what the official term is) on the north side (which probably has not been used outside of testing), if Hefner's reserve capacity gets full then they probably just finish filling up Overholser to normal capacity, when both are full they can just open the gates on the North Canadian river to full at Overholser and/or use their flood stage capacity.

Though it does not look like there is any equipment to do it, if it were to be needed done more frequently in the future they could probably just set up another pump station on the canal between Overholser & Hefner to send water back to the river. With the recent remodel of the water system, they could shift to having more of the city's daily water processing done there than normal at the Hefner plant (the plant at Draper generally handles the majority of the load, granted Draper is at 99% so they would have to coordinate a change in what is pumped from Lake Atoka which is at 107%).

^^^^^^^^
The normal elevation of Hefner is 40' lower than the normal elevation of Overholser. Both are filled by the North Canadian; however in Hefner's case the water is diverted and travels its last few miles via a canal. When Hefner is low they leave the gates to the canal open, when it is full they close them. No pumping required.

Thanks, I am fully aware of how Hefner fills up, but someone mentioned earlier about Hefner getting above its flood level back on 5/31/13 and they had to release water from it. I just read that and thought "where the hell do they do that" besides just increasing production at the WTP.

I was responding to where Snowman said


there is no natural flow into it, they have to pump water up to fill it, usually they just stop pumping it in before it overflows...
which isn't really the case. There is no "pumping" and there is no "up". I agree there isn't "natural" flow (unless you consider the gravity part of it natural), but no pumps or pumping are involved. He was probably just substituting "pumping" for "letting water into".

It's unlikely to get above its flood level because it can be disconnected from the watershed that feeds it. At that point it would only pick up direct accumulation from rain on the surface of Hefner and its short feeder canal, which at worst would usually only be a few inches at a time.

That said, I believe water can be released from the bottom of the dam that would flow into Bluff Creek, which flows into/through Martin Park Nature Center and eventually into Deer Creek, which itself eventually runs into the Cimarron River. Bluff Creek runs alongside of Hefner, to the west, and feeds Ski Island, Bluestem, and other small lakes dotting that part of town.

[SIZE=3]Reading the front page of the Daily and the incredible amount of water being released from Overholser......
Don't believe we have a water problem, maybe a different kind of problem.

:ohno:

Canton's conservation pool is now officially 30% full with about an 11' deficit to the top of said pool, which hasn't happened in a long, LONG time. Unfortunately it still needs a lot more water.

Canton's conservation pool is now officially 30% full with about an 11' deficit to the top of said pool, which hasn't happened in a long, LONG time. Unfortunately it still needs a lot more water.

There is a long way to go but it's easier then normal. The ground is so saturated that any rain now basically runs off right in to creeks and streams. An inch of rain in its watershed used to just absorb right into the soil, now it'll run off. One big rain in the right spot could potentially fill the lake.

Lake altus was in the same situation as canton and it's starting to fill up pretty rapidly.

Where is overflow at Hefner released from?I haven't driven around the top of the dam for many years now, though it used to be a favorite spot for a Sunday afternoon drive. Back then, there was a sort of spillway at the northeast corner of the lake, approximately where Hefner and the parkway intersect, and the area to the northeast had not yet been developed. There was a skeet range in the area where the parkway now runs, and the OCPD pistol range was in that general area (That's where Col. Paul Bell taught me how to handle my .45 as I prepared to leave for Korea in February of 1953, but I no longer remember the exact location).

The little catchment pond beside the access road from eastbound Hefner to the southbound parkway seems to be all that's left from that original design. As others have said, there's really no risk of overflow because there's almost no direct input from a watershed -- the only one I can recognize is that little creek that meanders up Meridian around NW 60 and then disappears into a concrete tunnel to emerge just north of NW Hiway and reach the lake from there. And it hardly ever produces any significant flow...

The million dollar question at the moment is why the City is releasing water downstream when neither Overhholser or Hefner are full.

There's a set of gates on the north side of 39th street by Overholster to control the flow from the North Canadian to Lake Hefner. When those gates are shut, the water continues on into Overholster, and on out of the gates of the dam there. The answer to the million dollar question is there are other communites down the line from Okc that need water too.

The million dollar question at the moment is why the City is releasing water downstream when neither Overhholser or Hefner are full.

My guess is that in the case of Hefner the diversion canal is at capacity and is carrying water there as quickly as it can.

I suppose regarding Overholser that - despite the fact that it is only 77% of "capacity" - it is within two feet of being topped. Lots more water in in those two feet than the two feet of depth below, of course, thanks to the shape of the bank and the additional surface area covered. But at the rate of flow coming down the North Canadian right now if they hadn't started a release it would probably fill up too quickly and perhaps top the dam, which is a bad thing. They are probably just being proactive.

Surface area, elevation and total capacity are all parts of a fairly complex equation that only SEEMS really simple.

...The answer to the million dollar question is there are other communites down the line from Okc that need water too.

Also true. In fact I think that there are agreements that require a certain amount of release.

WIth Eufaula into its flood pool I doubt there is any need for the release of water downstream.

Surface area, elevation and total capacity are all parts of a fairly complex equation that only SEEMS really simple.

I'll let you all keep thinking that and paying me to do middle school level applied mathematics.

Looks like another round starting this coming wed. as they are predicting 100% chance of rain with it staying around for a few days. This will prob. be the one that fills city lakes to the brim if they aren't already at levels they want. Since they have been releasing water from Hefner & Overholser maybe they are at the levels they want them? I don't know any other reason why they would be sending water out. Lakes to the east are full. Canton is the one that is hurting and it may take years to fill. Ok doesn't need more water but Okc just needs more storage capacity. Overholser is very shallow as I have been out in the middle where water was only a couple feet deep.

While Hefner is up, just go look at the lines on the rip rap. Was on Mama Roja's patio last night and there is still a ways to go. Are you so itching to take three hour baths, leave you sprinklers on all day, and wash your truck daily that you believe we are in some luxurious spot with water?

Looks like another round starting this coming wed. as they are predicting 100% chance of rain with it staying around for a few days. This will prob. be the one that fills city lakes to the brim if they aren't already at levels they want. Since they have been releasing water from Hefner & Overholser maybe they are at the levels they want them? I don't know any other reason why they would be sending water out. Lakes to the east are full. Canton is the one that is hurting and it may take years to fill. Ok doesn't need more water but Okc just needs more storage capacity. Overholser is very shallow as I have been out in the middle where water was only a couple feet deep.

I did not hear the results (or maybe they just have not finished collecting all the data they need) but the city and Dolese Bros were doing studies last year to see if the silt that has accumulated in Overholser since 1919 (~20% of the original volume verses last Bathymetric map, but that estimate is getting old so it is probably closer to 30% today) might be able to be used for for their construction business, some of the comments from the water resource board sounded like several years earlier the city had looked into just removing it but there was not the political will to spend the money to do so. Dolese already has done operations collecting material from in the North Canadian/Oklahoma river but when they do it is also dependent on when major projects like highway construction, Devon tower's construction or home building are creating demand.

Overholserr was built when the OKC population was. 91000
Hefner. 240,000
Draper. 324,000
Arcadia. 404,000. Plus Edmond pop.

A lake or reservoir was built about every 20 to 25 years. Up until 1984.
We are over 600k plus the metro, another 600 to 700k
I hope they have something else planned in addition to a pipeline to Hefner.

Overholserr was built when the OKC population was. 91000
Hefner. 240,000
Draper. 324,000
Arcadia. 404,000. Plus Edmond pop.

A lake or reservoir was built about every 20 to 25 years. Up until 1984.
We are over 600k plus the metro, another 600 to 700k
I hope they have something else planned in addition to a pipeline to Hefner.

If they are going to build a new one, the most likely time is when adding the second pipeline to the Atoka / Sardis area