I'd like to see the tiered structure to force those that use so much, to pay more. I'd like to see a mandate that if you have a sprinkler system, that it must have a rain sensor so you aren't watering in the rain or when it's just rained. And if you do that, actually enforce the fine that we already have on the books for it....AND make the watering time appropriate (ie not in the 6pm time).

Personally, I have Bermuda grass and have conditioned it over the years to be VERY drought tolerant. I only had to water my yard 1 or 2 times last year TOTAL! It does not grow as thick or as fast as a lot of other yards and I do have a few weeds here any there, but it stayed green ALLLLLL summer. While the sprinkler system yards were dead, mine was still green. It wasn't growing very fast ( I think I mowed once in July), but im not exactly complaining about that...hey that's less mower exhaust too right. :) I also spend a LOT less on my yard maintenance than a lot of people. I use 4 bottles of weed-be-gone (2 in the spring and 2 in the fall) and fertilize with some basic 10-20-10 type stuff once or twice in the season as well. Again, it's not a perfect gold green, but it's ALMOST as good as the ones that get professionally sprayed. And I'm not putting a ton of nitrogen and crap in the drainage system. Not to mention that I don't "water-in" my fertilizer. I just plan it so that it gets put on a day or so before it rains. It only takes 20 minutes to do the whole yard, so come on.

It's simple stuff like that that can help when a lot of people do it.

1 - If you don't have a low-flow toilet, throw a brick or two in the tank or lower the fill-meter. Putting something like a brick (or some rock/concrete chunk) in there doesn't cost anything.
2 - Fix any leak FAST. even a small toilet leak/faucet drip can add up VERY fast. Think about it, it runs 24 hours. I had a leaking seal on a toilet and it almost doubled my bill one month while I tried to hunt down parts that fit it (an odd brand....I ended up gutting the whole inner-workings of the toilet myself to make it use standard parts from Lowes/Home Depot).
3 - Use a cup when you brush your teeth, don't leave the faucet on. Ever seen that commercial with the guy doing that and the little girl from a village staring at it since she doesn't have water?
4 - Get rain tubs for your gutters and water your plants from those instead of the faucet. The ROI is pretty slow, but you eventually get one. These are common enough now you can even get them at WalMart!
5 - We could do good in OKC to look at non-potable options for things like golf course watering/car washes, etc.

There are more expensive options like replacing appliances, and that's great, but the stuff we recommend need to be things that the overwhelming population can do. Most families can't afford to put in $5k worth of new appliances. Regardless of if you're anti climate-change or if you're a greeny, it's simply good use practices. WE WASTE SO MUCH IN THE US!!!!

I know in some states this happens - not sure if it does in Oklahoma - do any of those bottled water plants in our state use our city water to package and sell back to residents at an astronomical rate? I assume they all tap into unground natural sources here. Have heard where Nestle's uses millions and millions of gallons in other states that are already in serious drought and under restrictions.

And add water for our veggie gardens, gopokes8. I try to live out of mine. I'm on a well, over the years the water level in my well has risen about 25'. I've tried the drip and did not have much luck. The critters ate my soaker hoses and I had a bunch of them. I don't water my lawn so I think that ballences out. I have a neighbor who plans on irrigating 10 ac of horse pasture, now I think that is a bit excessive.

Yeah veggie garden watering isn't wasteful it produces food. I water my lawn a couple of times a year if I need to water in the fertilizer. Bermuda is awesome grass for when it's 100 degrees in August. It goes brown but if we have a wet cool September it'll come right back. That's just me though.

My point is if we got into a California esq situation we could cut consumption very far back very quickly anx fortunately we have the reservoir capacity across the state to be ok.

Climate is always changing and we're currently in the dry side after many years of wet. We receive on average 36 inches of rain per year. That's 3acre feet per acre. That's plenty. We just use tons, which is fine we have it to use most years. We don't live in a desert, however if we need to we can cut back and way back. Most homes use 1 acre foot per year. Desert cities in the SW (mostly NM, unlike AZ and Cali they woke and realized hey we live in a freaking desert, 1800 sq ft of grass is a bad idea) use only .25 acre feet per year. If our backs hit the wall we could cloud seed and ban watering lawns plus higher water rates and people would use a lot less water.

In a shortage all the water someone needs is cooking, laundry, dishes, showers, and toilets.

We'll be ok.

We'll be OK, but not sure our grandkids will be OK. Study done in 2014 showed that Garber Wellington had about 40 years til depletion depending on use, future development, new wells, etc. As long as managed properly that shouldn't happen but use is trending up big time and supply is going other way. Usage in last 10 years just from that aquifer up over 20% based on 2010 numbers. Edmond, Moore, Norman, Mustang and so on get there water here (not OKC). It's a very serious long term issue. Hey, I water my garden too! But hopefully people smarter than me are looking at long term solutions, management etc.

We'll be OK, but not sure our grandkids will be OK. Study done in 2014 showed that Garber Wellington had about 40 years til depletion depending on use, future development, new wells, etc. As long as managed properly that shouldn't happen but use is trending up big time and supply is going other way. Usage in last 10 years just from that aquifer up over 20% based on 2010 numbers. Edmond, Moore, Norman, Mustang and so on get there water here (not OKC). It's a very serious long term issue. Hey, I water my garden too! But hopefully people smarter than me are looking at long term solutions, management etc.

They'll figure it out. Watch california today to see our future in 40 years. You'll see a mixture of water rates going higher, (btw water rates have a ton of room to go higher it's life most essential thing, and yet is maybe #15 or so on my expense list. people will pay more for water even if they don't want to.) desalination plants, new reservoirs and less water use per capita.

If california with 10 times out population yet receiving a fraction of the moisture we get can figure it out I like our odds. They just simply aren't going to run out, people will move, they'll desal, build news lakes, and use less. In Oklahoma we'd use less water, develop new lakes, and maybe build a big pipeline from the east to the west. We have so much water stored in reservoirs in the eastern part.

That's already happening - big fight over SE Okla water rights because they are so valuable. There are signs near Sardis Lake with a little girl's crying face that say " DADDY HOW COME OKC TAKES ALL THE WATER FROM OUR LAKES?"

The frustrating thing to me is after the last major release from Canton, we never really started talking as a city about what we were going to do moving forward. I'd be all for some trenching, especially at Canton, but at Lake Hefner when it gets this bad.

If we start digging out Canton and Hefner right now, maybe we can take advantage of future cycles of heavy moisture.

Something that has to be addressed is the city water habits. I think the water trust has been forward thinking in a lot of what they have done but the average resident hasnt been educated in what is reasonable water consumption. In fact I would bet that most don't know that we are in mandatory odd/even outdoor watering which I think is a good thing. There is no reason someone needs to water their yard 7 times a week. It really is about being smart and not wasting water before we are in a dire situation like California. A site I like to check every week Squeeze Every Drop > Combined Lake Capacity (http://squeezeeverydrop.com/CombinedLakeCapacity.aspx) in early January we were at 52 % so its good to see it up before the summer months begin but as people begin watering outside it will drop drastically.

Since someone asked, the old water rate (before last October) was a flat $2.65/1000 gallons. Changes:

Today: $2.73/1000 gallons up to 10,000; $3.14/1000 gallons thereafter.

October 2015: $2.81/1000 gallons up to 10,000; $3.32/1000 gallons thereafter.

October 2016: $2.89/1000 gallons up to 10,000; $3.50/1000 gallons thereafter.

That's a 21% step starting 10/16. I think they could have made it a little steeper, but this is the right idea.

Also, ixnay on the bricks. Bits and pieces flake off of them and go down your line where they do no good. Instead, get a small plastic bottle and set it in the corner. Even a little 20-ouncer cuts usage by 0.15 gallon every flush.

OKC also has a plan in its back pocket. Draper has a as of yet un dammed reservoir space available immediately west of the current lake. I believe it's also a bit larger than the existing Draper. My only concern there is how deep it will be. Hefner is so shallow, it's not very good at protecting itself from evaporation because it can heat up faster than a deeper lake. There used to be a good outline on google maps, but that seems to be gone now. I THINK it feeds from Atoka, but I could be wrong there. So if we did allow the second basin to fill, it would probably take a number of years to fill in.

OKC also has a plan in its back pocket. Draper has a as of yet un dammed reservoir space available immediately west of the current lake. I believe it's also a bit larger than the existing Draper. My only concern there is how deep it will be. Hefner is so shallow, it's not very good at protecting itself from evaporation because it can heat up faster than a deeper lake. There used to be a good outline on google maps, but that seems to be gone now. I THINK it feeds from Atoka, but I could be wrong there. So if we did allow the second basin to fill, it would probably take a number of years to fill in.

West Elm Creek reservoir

I'd still like to see more reservoirs built for Oklahoma City and Lawton. There are over 30 potential sites. The problems are money and getting through the million pages of red tape.

Lots of rain for both Hefner and canton today , not to mention the southwest art of the state

:Smiley105
YES, whew

Was just at Mama Roja's after driving around town and Lake Hefner was definitely getting the heaviest rain I've seen today!

Canton lake rapidly rising

Lake Canton at 40k+ Acre Feet of Storage for the first time since we drew in 2013. I have a measurement written down for 12/25/12 of 52,105. After the draw, the low was 24,793. Using the most recent 40,697 reading, we're still down about 22% since the draw. We've seen an increase of ~64% since the low.

If I remember correctly, after the massive rain storm that hit on the Friday after May 20th, Lake Hefner overflowed quite a bit. If we had drawn about 10,000 acre feet less, I feel like we'd be in a much better position. Hopefully next time we'll be a little bit more prudent with a draw. Really need to look at expanding Hefner's storage in the next couple years.

Canton lake rapidly rising

You gotta think with how wet that part of the State has been recently (which is awesome, btw), that Canton should be getting a lot of run off. It would be great if they could get about 4 more weeks of all this before the summer.

Precip elevation storage


04/27 01:00 0.02 1603.37 38152
04/27 02:00 0.00 1603.37 38152
04/27 03:00 0.00 1603.37 38152
04/27 04:00 0.02 1603.37 38152
04/27 05:00 0.03 1603.37 38152
04/27 06:00 0.00 1603.37 38152
04/27 07:00 0.01 1603.37 38152
04/27 08:00 0.11 1603.38 38197
04/27 09:00 0.01 1603.39 38243
04/27 10:00 0.00 1603.40 38288
04/27 11:00 0.06 1603.40 38288
04/27 12:00 0.09 1603.42 38379
04/27 13:00 0.11 1603.43 38425
04/27 14:00 0.14 1603.46 38561
04/27 15:00 0.34 1603.55 38970
04/27 16:00 0.32 1603.70 39651
04/27 17:00 0.22 1603.85 40333
04/27 18:00 0.05 1603.93 40697
04/27 19:00 0.01 1603.95 40788

It's topping out over 1604 feet now. Conservation pool almost 30% full.

More dams, more lakes, make the lakes deeper? We can't keep the current storage capacity full, how on earth would increasing storage capacity help? If we made a new lake where is the water going to come from to put in it? We don't have too much water; we are using more than mother nature can supply.

More dams, more lakes, make the lakes deeper? We can't keep the current storage capacity full, how on earth would increasing storage capacity help? If we made a new lake where is the water going to come from to put in it? We don't have too much water; we are using more than mother nature can supply.

It certainly wouldn't help west of the city.

One of the largest lakes in the state has never had water in it - Lake Optima.

One of the largest lakes in the state has never had water in it - Lake Optima.

Yes, this stands as testimony that even well meaning people and organizations who think they are smart and are using up to date accepted knowledge can make colossal mistakes.

One of the largest lakes in the state has never had water in it - Lake Optima.

This is NOT one of the largest lakes in the state. Go check again, they have a large wildlife management area for birds, but the lake surface area is probably more like Lake Hefner if that much.

^ according to Wikipedia (!) it has never had more than 5% of capacity. Designed for 618,000 acre feet. Also designed to 120 feet deep in some areas.

Some might say they got a little over Optimaistic on that project.

This is NOT one of the largest lakes in the state. Go check again, they have a large wildlife management area for birds, but the lake surface area is probably more like Lake Hefner if that much.

I think you missed the context of the post based on what Lake Optima was designed for.

Lake Optima was a political boondoggle from the word GO. No comparison to expansion projects for the greater need of Central Oklahoma.
And yes water has been let go before on Hefner and many times at Overholser. We need more capacity, deeper, wider or whatever. OKC is way more than 350K population which is about when Draper was built. I don't condone wasteful usage but I'm also practical.

Kind of makes you wonder if industrial farming should be allowed west of I-35.

Texas and parts of Oklahoma are definitely draining the aquifer. Just as California keeps adding people in a state that's predominately desert, farmers are finding a way to survive here. Not going to be a positive outcome for mother nature or man.

It certainly wouldn't help west of the city.

Any new lakes would be built SE of OKC or even in SE Oklahoma with water piped in. Look at an average precip map of the state to see why.

Any new lakes would be built SE of OKC or even in SE Oklahoma with water piped in. Look at an average precip map of the state to see why.

Yes, I know. We have plenty of lakes in east Oklahoma. Have to get the permission to build the pipe lines first.

One of the largest lakes in the state has never had water in it - Lake Optima.

^ according to Wikipedia (!) it has never had more than 5% of capacity. Designed for 618,000 acre feet. Also designed to 120 feet deep in some areas.

That’s not even close to the truth^… While living in Guymon I have personally seen Lake Optima nearly full on one occasion and I have been told that it’s been near full on one other occasion.

Its biggest problems are that it seldom receives any recharge, high evaporation rates, it easily soaks into the soil locally recharging the aquifer and there are problems with the dam its self that causes some leakage?

Kind of makes you wonder if industrial farming should be allowed west of I-35.

^That^ is perhaps the craziest thought I have ever seen on any message board in my life….

Obviously the further west you go the more major farming becomes hit or miss… but it’s mostly hit and there are plenty of dry land crops that do very well west of I¬35 in our state and in Kansas and Texas too.

A few more rains this spring like the one Canton just got would go a long ways. The conservation pool is close to 29% full after these rains.

Kind of makes you wonder if industrial farming should be allowed west of I-35.

It's comments like this that make laugh when you say you are a Republican. Yeah the government should totally be allowed to tell people what to do with their land even if they aren't hurting others.

It's comments like this that make laugh when you say you are a Republican. Yeah the government should totally be allowed to tell people what to do with their land even if they aren't hurting others.

Are they not hurting others (or at least limiting their resources) if they drain the aquifer?

Are they not hurting others (or at least limiting their resources) if they drain the aquifer?
The doomsday predictions are really getting old. Remember the 70s? The earth was freezing, population was growing too fast, and we were going to run out of food. None of that happened. The invisible hand guides us. Technology has the potential to fix any problem.

Is charging more for water not a better solution?

There's a huge difference between the government telling a farmer this land you've been making a living on for generations (in most cases) you can no longer use because we the brilliant government, who screw up almost everything we touch, have decided farming here is no longer allowed.

Or the water you are using that is public utility is now going to be 15% more expensive?

JTF isn't a republican, the thought process isn't a republican line of thinking it's a leftist.

BTW the second is a better solution because now demand has been created to maintain yield with less water. Make a GMO seed that is more drought resistant and viola. Problem solved. Innovation takes hold, but it can't if the shortsighted iron fist of government crushes it first. Nearly everything, and with very few exceptions, the government touches creates more problems not less.

The doomsday predictions are really getting old. Remember the 70s? The earth was freezing, population was growing too fast, and we were going to run out of food. None of that happened. The invisible hand guides us. Technology has the potential to fix any problem.

Is charging more for water not a better solution?

There's a huge difference between the government telling a farmer this land you've been making a living on for generations (in most cases) you can no longer use because we the brilliant government, who screw up almost everything we touch, have decided farming here is no longer allowed.

Or the water you are using that is public utility is now going to be 15% more expensive?

JTF isn't a republican, the thought process isn't a republican line of thinking it's a leftist.

BTW the second is a better solution because now demand has been created to maintain yield with less water. Make a GMO seed that is more drought resistant and viola. Problem solved. Innovation takes hold, but it can't if the shortsighted iron fist of government crushes it first. Nearly everything, and with very few exceptions, the government touches creates more problems not less.

So your proposal is to come up with GMO seeds and charge more for water? And your logic of "we've always done it, so we should be able to continue doing it" is awfully weak. What if these technological innovations take time and the aquifer ends up drained while we wait for drought resistant seeds?

Are they not hurting others (or at least limiting their resources) if they drain the aquifer?

When you look at a map of the aquifer in question (The Oglala aquifer ) this is the area where the vast majority of crops are irrigated and the only aquifer in Oklahoma being depleted by agriculture….

But as it can clearly be seen there is a vast area west of I-35 in Oklahoma that is almost entirely dry land farming or pasture lands.

The first 100 miles or so west of I-35 is generally very productive ground where farming occurs. But this area is not depleting The Oglala aquifer and the thoughts that it is would be completely false!.... because the Oglala aquifer doesn’t even exist in this area!

There are places in north central Oklahoma, but west of I-35 that are some of the very best wheat grounds in the entire world….

For every person being harmed by these farmers there are a million more that have their lives helped with more abundant cheaper food, fiber and sometimes jobs.

http://gulfofmexicooilspillblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/1505ogallala.jpghttp://gulfofmexicooilspillblog.file...05ogallala.jpg

Aquifer.

It's comments like this that make laugh when you say you are a Republican. Yeah the government should totally be allowed to tell people what to do with their land even if they aren't hurting others.

How about this then, just deny government subsidies to industrial farmers west of I-35?

I think you missed the context of the post based on what Lake Optima was designed for.

Believe it or not I know a lot about Optima.

One flood helped make it happen ?

JTF isn't a republican, the thought process isn't a republican line of thinking it's a leftist.


Just to clarify, you're correct, I am not a practicing Republican. However, I am NOT a left-winger, I am an New Urbanist Teapartier Christian Austrian School of Economics: NUTCASE (I just made that up and am claiming credit for creating it).

A few more rains this spring like the one Canton just got would go a long ways. The conservation pool is close to 29% full after these rains.

It was suggested on Channel 4 that seven more similar rains would end the drought. Sure would be nice. I looked at Lake Optima pics on Abandoned Oklahoma. One word... eerie.

That’s not even close to the truth^… While living in Guymon I have personally seen Lake Optima nearly full on one occasion and I have been told that it’s been near full on one other time.

I was going to say I stand corrected, but I guess I won't be doing that now. It has never reached more than 10% of its designed depth or 20% of its surface area.

Optima Lake State Park | Abandoned Oklahoma (http://www.abandonedok.com/optima-lake-state-park/)

I was going to say I stand corrected, but I guess I won't be doing that now. It has never reached more than 10% of its designed depth or 20% of its surface area.

Optima Lake State Park | Abandoned Oklahoma (http://www.abandonedok.com/optima-lake-state-park/)

There's actually pictures of it with quite a bit of water, not saying it was full but better than it was 10 years ago.

I was going to say I stand corrected, but I guess I won't be doing that now. It has never reached more than 10% of its designed depth or 20% of its surface area.

Optima Lake State Park | Abandoned Oklahoma (http://www.abandonedok.com/optima-lake-state-park/)

Sorry but when they talk about the lake level the information on that link is not correct no matter what it or says or anything else for that matter…. I live in that area in the 80’s and last drove by Optima in the early 90’s…..and was very familiar with the are at the time and knew people who spent time there hunting. One guy even fished the lake without much success.

What we saw didn’t last long but it was a nearly full lake…..Anyone working at that site has probably long since retired… What you have said about Optima lake levels is still wrong.... But what I’m talking about is only a very rare case.

There's actually pictures of it with quite a bit of water, not saying it was full but better than it was 10 years ago.
FYI

The date I saw it nearly full would have been about May of 1990 after 6+ inch rains occurred well up stream.

I camped out there about year 2000. There was water in it but not much.


Optima Dam was completed in 1978 and the water level
has never risen to the bottom of the conservation pool. The
highest water level recorded was May 31, 1980, but it fell a
few feet short of conservation pool level. A flood event in May
1996 raised the elevation to a few feet below the conservation
pool and the project operated as designed. There were no
water releases made from the dam

http://www.swt.usace.army.mil/Portals/41/docs/library/optima/exec-sum-initial-aprsl-2010-11.pdf

That sounds like a little more water than the wiki entry says, however short lived.

The item I linked to was a story in the Oklahoman. Maximum depth ever recorded - 15 feet. Anyhow, it doesn't matter because the point was that expanding capacity won't help because there is no water to go in it. It's like opening a second bank account because you don't have any money in your first account.

The item I linked to was a story in the Oklahoman. Maximum depth ever recorded - 15 feet. Anyhow, it doesn't matter because the point was that expanding capacity won't help because there is no water to go in it. It's like opening a second bank account because you don't have any money in your first account.


Your not really comparing Optima to Hefner or Overholser for the sake of your argument......................

ARE YOU?

If Hefner was 20x larger would there be more water in it right now?

If they built it 5 years ago, of course. Water has been let out before...several times. Not saying we don't need to conserve, but we are a long way off (precipitation wise) from Altus or the panhandle.

That is the root of the problem though. Average demand has exceeded average supply and now there is a reliance on above average supply. That isn't a problem that can be solved by storage capacity indefinitely.

Oklahoma ranked third worst out of 50 states in running out of water. Texas is #9

> Pct. severe drought: 51.7%
> Pct. extreme drought: 39.7% (3rd highest)
> Pct. exceptional drought: 10.7% (3rd highest)

While the periods of peak precipitation have passed in the Western U.S., the wet season in Oklahoma has not quite arrived and therefore there may be hope to restore water supplies there. With severe to exceptional drought conditions affecting more than half of Oklahoma as of the week ended April 14, however, the state’s current water shortage is quite dire. Almost 11% of the state’s land area was experiencing exceptional drought, nearly the highest such share in the nation. Oklahoma is also one of a handful of Great Plains states relying heavily on the Ogallala Aquifer, which supplies water for about one-fifth of all U.S. wheat, corn, cotton, and cattle production. The Aquifer, which contains water thousands of years old, is currently being depleted faster than it is being replenished. 9 States Running Out of Water - 24/7 Wall St. (http://247wallst.com/special-report/2015/04/22/9-states-running-out-of-water/#ixzz3Yj2rlUgk)

indefinitely no, Dallas is having to figure out the problem too. I have a 34K gallon swimming pool, not looking forward to paying more but understand its part of it. Conservation to a degree, with more capacity and availability of water East of us is the only answer.

So not filling your swimming pool isn't a viable answer?