Denial meet Midtowner. I guess the $1 billion plan to bring in more water is either a waste of money or money is no object.

CZmHDEa0Y20

From day one, I haven't bought the premise that we need to overreact to the situation. We took one water release from Canton, lake Hefner is now fine. Canton, not so much. The Water Utilities Trust has our water needs at present level and well beyond taken care of for years and years. OKC is not in the middle of a desert and water is something we have an embarassment of riches of.

Go xeriscape your own lawn. Leave mine the hell alone.

Don't tell me what to do with my lawn.... I have a beautiful lawn..... Plan on mowing it tonight and laying down some fertilizer too.

So odd/even watering is overreacting? I'm a freaking water miser and I have a nice lawn but I hate wasting money. So my lawn gets watered when it absolutely needs it.

Just because we have it doesn't mean we need to be wasting it. I don't buy groceries for a week and eat them all in one day just because I have plenty. Why would I want to do that with water supply?

So odd/even watering is overreacting?

Yes. There is no reason to conserve and have criminal penalties for failing to do so in order to address a problem which doesn't exist.

The City is spending $1 billion to solve this non-problem.

This is the #1 reason I adopted the New Urbansim. I don't want to pay the tax rates our current development style requires. Alas, no one is telling you that you have to get rid of your yard Midtowner. All I am saying - and I think most others as well - is that the City should stop allowing NEW large yards to be built. If anything, that will drive up the demand for your yard and increase the value of your property.

What do I mean by 'large', that can be open for debate.

Yes. There is no reason to conserve and have criminal penalties for failing to do so in order to address a problem which doesn't exist.

So what you are saying is that we should all be over-watering our lawns so we can cause the problem to exist?

From my point of view. Conservation is never a bad thing. Whether it be water, food, fuel, etc... We don't live in a static environment and just because we have it today doesn't mean we will have it tomorrow.

Midtowner is the equivalent of the guy who goes out and runs his engine for an hour on Earth Day. All he really succeeds in doing is wasting resources.

You sure can't tell we have a major water problem from the promotional videos of vast areas of flowing water, golf courses, "acreages" that beckon and lush gardens. Maybe the video should just open up to a cactus and say "Don't move here. Nothing to see. We barely have enough water for the people who live here now." Or not.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GJIHhypBmU

You sure can't tell we have a major water problem from the promotional videos of vast areas of flowing water, golf courses, "acreages" that beckon, and lush gardens. Maybe the video should just open up to the a cactus and say "Don't move here. Nothing to see. We barely have enough water for the people who live here now." Or not.

I don't think we have a major water problem either.... Where I differ from Midtowner is that he advocates that just because we don't have a problem that we should all have carte blanche to waste as many of our resources as we want. I on the other hand believe that conservation is always a good thing.

I don't think we have a major water problem either.... Where I differ from Midtowner is that he advocates that just because we don't have a problem that we should all have carte blanche to waste as many of our resources as we want. I on the other hand believe that conservation is always a good thing.

I agree on conservation. I'm pretty miserly. Most Oklahomans are, and it shows in our water use figures.

So what you are saying is that we should all be over-watering our lawns so we can cause the problem to exist?

How do you know I'm overwatering? I have young fescue because of too much shade in my back yard and having to have a major drainage project in my yard last year (including the installation of irrigation hardware). It requires a lot of water to get fescue established.


From my point of view. Conservation is never a bad thing. Whether it be water, food, fuel, etc... We don't live in a static environment and just because we have it today doesn't mean we will have it tomorrow.

Well your statement kind of assumes a static environment, doesn't it? The fact is that 1) we have it; and 2) our needs have been looked after well into the future. Anything you have suggested is nothing more than an overreaction to the facts as they are.

How do you know I'm overwatering? I have young fescue because of too much shade in my back yard and having to have a major drainage project in my yard last year (including the installation of irrigation hardware). It requires a lot of water to get fescue established.

It requires that the ground be kept moist for 2-3 weeks. Once established overwatering fescue can lead to disease. 1" to 1 1/2" of water a week is sufficient for fescue and daily watering is discouraged...... So what kind of fescue did you plant that defies these recommendations?


Well your statement kind of assumes a static environment, doesn't it? The fact is that 1) we have it; and 2) our needs have been looked after well into the future. Anything you have suggested is nothing more than an overreaction to the facts as they are.

No..... Everything I have suggested is that, even in times of plenty, conservation is still a good practice while being wasteful, even during periods of abundance, is irresponsible.

It requires that the ground be kept moist for 2-3 weeks. Once established overwatering fescue can lead to disease. 1" to 1 1/2" of water a week is sufficient for most fescue and daily watering is discouraged...... So what kind of fescue did you plant that defies these recommendations?

I got a blend from Home Depot some kind of Scots something. It hasn't thickened up. I'll probably overseed a few times in the Fall. I also irrigate a vegetable garden and various flower gardens which definitely need daily watering.


No..... Everything I have suggested is that, even in times of plenty, conservation is still a good practice while being wasteful, even during periods of abundance, is irresponsible.

So I guess you're now acknowledging we're in times of plenty? Wasteful is such a subjective word and contains so many judgments that it's just inappropriate for you to utter it without knowing any facts. The odd/even thing is pointless. We are supplied with water for many years. This is a resource which also wastes due to evaporation if it's not used. In the grand scheme of things the professionals have handled the situation and there are a few cranks on the internet who still think this is a thing.

I'm the kind of guy who turns on a couple of extra floodlights during Earth Hour, but I also suspect that the population is increasing faster than the water supply's ability to meet its demands, so I tend to be stingy with water. My lawn looks fine, and I haven't brought out the sprinklers since late 2012.

I have tropical plants, tons if them, thya require daily watering as well as my banana trees.

I water my new plat of Zoysia grass three times a day.... I believe in saving water, but it seems people on this thread took it to a new extreme.

I water my new plat of Zoysia grass three times a day.... I believe in saving water,

Stop trolling.

I have tropical plants, tons if them, thya require daily watering as well as my banana trees.

I water my new plat of Zoysia grass three times a day.... I believe in saving water, but it seems people on this thread took it to a new extreme.

I'm going to hope that you're just joking because any landscaper will tell you to plant things as native to your area as possible both because of water usage and because of the ability to survive the temperature changes.

I'm the kind of guy who turns on a couple of extra floodlights during Earth Hour, but I also suspect that the population is increasing faster than the water supply's ability to meet its demands, so I tend to be stingy with water. My lawn looks fine, and I haven't brought out the sprinklers since late 2012.

More than likely, populations are going to have to relocate to places where water is abundant. OKC is going to be one of those places. DFW is not.

The folks who should be truly worried are those in Las Vegas. Lake Meade is always increasing in salinity due to runoff from the Colorado. If that water becomes unpotable, that city will literally dry up.

I'm the kind of guy who turns on a couple of extra floodlights during Earth Hour, but I also suspect that the population is increasing faster than the water supply's ability to meet its demands, so I tend to be stingy with water. My lawn looks fine, and I haven't brought out the sprinklers since late 2012.

Heck yea, besides watering just means more mowing. My bermuda grass has turned completely brown before and greened right back up with a good rain.

Heck yea, besides watering just means more mowing. My bermuda grass has turned completely brown before and greened right back up with a good rain.

Bermuda grass won't grow in the shade and fescue doesn't go dormant without water like bermuda does. My sister in Atlanta got a notice from her homeowners association for the lack of grass in the shade of the tree in her front yard so she had the tree removed, Monday. Trees or grass, or trees plus grass and all it entails.

I'm going to hope that you're just joking because any landscaper will tell you to plant things as native to your area as possible both because of water usage and because of the ability to survive the temperature changes.I was joking about the Zoysia, but I do have over 40 tropical plants. It's a hobby more than anything.

Had some of my plants for over 10 years now and they're better than ever. Some require water daily..... I had a fern that grew three feet tall and required water every time it got dry and I forgot to water it after 3 years ONCE and it died. :(

Yesterday I mowed my lawn in the 95° heat in anticipation of the rain today, but I had a glass of water afterwards. Sorry, I am a terrible person...

You're only a terrible person if you didn't also shower after. :)

My sister in Atlanta got a notice from her homeowners association for the lack of grass in the shade of the tree in her front yard so she had the tree removed, Monday. Trees or grass, or trees plus grass and all it entails.

There in lies the problem - regulatory bodies making the ornamental choice not the responsible choice. I have stopped replacing grass. If grass dies in my yard it becomes a flower bed or garden gnome display area.

Just a quick note from the road:

Up here, people are concerned, complaining, noting, bitching, griping and whining about too much rain (and the results thereof).
Maybe we need to find the closest politician to Al Franken and elect him . . . or her. =)

I actually don't water my grass at all. If it rains it gets super green, if it's dry like May was, it was green-tint ish. Which is good enough for me that's less mowing I have to do. Gotta love the toughness of Bermuda.

I actually don't water my grass at all. If it rains it gets super green, if it's dry like May was, it was green-tint ish. Which is good enough for me that's less mowing I have to do. Gotta love the toughness of Bermuda.

I never water either. I didn't have to mow my back yard (which is about 2/3 acre) this year until mid May. After the Round-up it gets in late March and the dry spring we had I didn't have to until then. And with the aggressive MSMA treatments it's been getting to kill the crab grass and just mowing the bermuda, even with the rain lately the mowing isn't too bad.

To somewhat change the subject, I was visiting OKC this last week and had the opportunity to drive around the East Wharf area of Lake Hefner around sunset after a day that topped out about 98 degrees. I was very pleased to see the activity level and numbers of people who were both dining but just generally enjoying the walking and biking trails as well as the new Lions Club park. Plenty of women who feel safe to use the exercise facilities, plenty of bikers and plenty of families. It appeared the level of activity was not far from the need for some additional parking. I visit much more in the winter when things aren't going on to the extent they are now at the lake but it is starting to remind me of olden days at White Rock Lake in Dallas.

Today wasn't much different, as I bicycled and then hung for a spell at Louie's, which is at a perfect trailside location. A goodly number of people were out, and the breeze was just balmy enough, despite the high temperature, across the lake. The lake itself is at what I call a "good low": Certainly below level, but enough to where it is still "full" and therefore enough to be useful for activity, and picturesque.

25% full now.

Any pics of Hefner and Overholser given the abundant rains lately? Does anybody make it out to draper who could provide pics?

Lake Hefner, as of July 10...

USGS Current Conditions for USGS 07159550 Lake Hefner at Oklahoma City, OK (http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ok/nwis/uv?site_no=07159550)

I'll try to get out there today or tomorrow and take some pics.

Canton Lake, current conditions...

Canton Lake 2014 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIh45RJxXfU)

Wow! Impressive vid!

I wish I had a drone. Looked into ordering that model but they were back ordered by months. Never seen Canton Lake Dam before. Thanks for posting!

Maybe you should go after the frac wells that have been eating up 2-5 million gallons of water per well. Water still in that area, just about a mile underground and now polluted with chemicals.

25% full now.

Any pics of Hefner and Overholser given the abundant rains lately? Does anybody make it out to draper who could provide pics?

I was at Mama Rojas the other night and looked about 4-5 feet down. A lot of improvement and could be close to normal if we get the forecasted rains for next week.

Draper has a supply pipe so I'm its fine. Lol

thanks guys (and gals) for the pics and info. please keep us informed.

Yes, impressive video! Thanks for sharing that good look at the dam...while the horizon is indeed expansive, it's nonetheless the source of that big Oklahoma sky, beloved by so many.


I was at Mama Rojas the other night and looked about 4-5 feet down. A lot of improvement and could be close to normal if we get the forecasted rains for next week.

Draper has a supply pipe so I'm its fine. Lol

It's been under four feet below for the past week or more. Still low, but barely, and the abundance of boats last night certainly gave no indication of the subpar level.

There in lies the problem - regulatory bodies making the ornamental choice not the responsible choice. I have stopped replacing grass. If grass dies in my yard it becomes a flower bed or garden gnome display area.

Since you live in Florida, don't you think that interspersing some of these with the gnomes would increase the feng shui of your landscaping project?
http://www.noveltymfg.com/portals/0/images/Glam-shot-birds.gif

The video is shocking. If not for its curvature it would be tough to tell the upstream side of the dam from the downstream side. It's a far cry from the good old days when we partied there in the seventies. We slept on the beach (where did it go?), fished from the dam, and drank heavily at Cookies club.

Cookies Club is still open. The beach is still there, but it is at least a half mile from where it should be. Hard to believe, but we were about 4 feet lower after the last draw. We and OKC have been very lucky. We have had only moderate heat and some rains at the right time to offset the evaporation. Usually, we loose about 7 ft during the summer. OKC has placed two aerators in the lake, but they have not raised the oxygen levels. It is unknown if they will help or hurt in such a shallow lake.

Is this really posted at the lake in Canton...

8638

LOL!!!! We do that for the city folks who only get their water from faucets and bottles.

heard Mick on the radio yesterday realting how he told people in Ca what we have in abundance in Ok is land and water. Is he delusional?

heard Mick on the radio yesterday realting how he told people in Ca what we have in abundance in Ok is land and water. Is he delusional?

Are you bitter?

Not at all. Mick made sense and sounded reasonable until that irresponsible whopper.

I think he's correct...it's just a matter of the abundance being downhill and a distance from some areas, hmm?

heard Mick on the radio yesterday realting how he told people in Ca what we have in abundance in Ok is land and water. Is he delusional?

Compared to CA right now and their forecasted needs, most everywhere has an abundance.

There's enough water in SE Ok. to serve the OKC area for centuries. It's just a matter of getting it piped up to NW sections of OKC where it needs to be. Once this is done NW OKC doesn't need to rely or take water from Canton again if it recovers.

heard Mick on the radio yesterday realting how he told people in Ca what we have in abundance in Ok is land and water. Is he delusional?ummmmm, I think you are the one who is delusional. Have you been keeping up with the drought situation in CA?

Oklahoma has moderate rainfall.... what Mick said was very fair and reasonable. Average Annual Precipitation by USA State - Current Results (http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/US/average-annual-state-precipitation.php)

I'm not even going to bring up land.

--------

This is kind of an offbeat question and I'm sorry if I break the forum rules here, but Edgar, with all due respect; what the hell are you doing on OKCTalk? I can almost look at a thread and accurately tell if you are going to be posting in it because you have a very predictable posting pattern. You either bitch about the mayor of OKC, complain about rich people(and you seem to love the word plutocrat as if you discovered it not too long ago), or you out to slay the evil oil tycoons. It is the same crap with you. I honestly can't tell whether you're trolling or not, but if you're going to just dwell in politics and make everything political, perhaps this is the thread for you: PoliticalForum.com - the best Forum for Politics (4000 posts/day) (http://www.politicalforum.com/)

Not trying to offend you or anything, but you are really a weird poster. Here's the thing about weird posters, I'm a weird poster, and for me to call someone a weird poster, would mean they are super weird..... or perhaps normal seeing as normal is weird to me at times; I'll let the rest of the fine folks of OKCTalk decide that one.

There's enough water in SE Ok. to serve the OKC area for centuries. It's just a matter of getting it piped up to NW sections of OKC where it needs to be. Once this is done NW OKC doesn't need to rely or take water from Canton again if it recovers.I agree with you. I'd love to help the city of Canton out and attempt to get the lake back up to healthy levels so strengthen their economy.

Thank you for the kind thought PlutonicPanda, but (sigh) as often expressed here in the past, no one will invest time or money in a business dependent on a lake that OKC can draw all the water from anytime they choose?

Thanks, law, for answering about Cookies, etc. I do wish you folks the best.

T

ummmmm, I think you are the one who is delusional. Have you been keeping up with the drought situation in CA?

Oklahoma has moderate rainfall.... what Mick said was very fair and reasonable. Average Annual Precipitation by USA State - Current Results (http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/US/average-annual-state-precipitation.php)

I'm not even going to bring up land.

--------

This is kind of an offbeat question and I'm sorry if I break the forum rules here, but Edgar, with all due respect; what the hell are you doing on OKCTalk? I can almost look at a thread and accurately tell if you are going to be posting in it because you have a very predictable posting pattern. You either bitch about the mayor of OKC, complain about rich people(and you seem to love the word plutocrat as if you discovered it not too long ago), or you out to slay the evil oil tycoons. It is the same crap with you. I honestly can't tell whether you're trolling or not, but if you're going to just dwell in politics and make everything political, perhaps this is the thread for you: PoliticalForum.com - the best Forum for Politics (4000 posts/day) (http://www.politicalforum.com/)

Not trying to offend you or anything, but you are really a weird poster. Here's the thing about weird posters, I'm a weird poster, and for me to call someone a weird poster, would mean they are super weird..... or perhaps normal seeing as normal is weird to me at times; I'll let the rest of the fine folks of OKCTalk decide that one.

The voters of OKC spoke Panda and they love their secretive plutocrats by a wide margin. Let it go. Would be nice if citizens of Ok got more than 2% on the extraction of her natural treasure but Okie voters must like their great corporate state of Ok.

Why has this thread devolved into Me . . . Me . . . Me . . .?
(as I sigh in relief for the rain and the non-need to water the herbs to accompany the chicken and/or fish)

So . . . Since it was a "misty" sort of "cool" day in OK . . . I decided to take a little stroll in the direction of . . .

RadicalModerate.....The sigh was only for what has been lost. Nothing more. The rest was simply fact, as explained by many in this thread. I was agreeing with those who pointed out that fact. I seldom post here, so, there's no need to drag out your hatred.

Why has this thread devolved into Me . . . Me . . . Me . . .?
(as I sigh in relief for the rain and the non-need to water the herbs to accompany the chicken and/or fish)

So . . . Since it was a "misty" sort of "cool" day in OK . . . I decided to take a little stroll in the direction of . . .don't devolve what you can't evolve and everything will just be great

…but Okie voters must like their great corporate state of Ok.
We do! We do!

Canton is continuing to rise at a time of the year it normally goes down. It's up to 25.45% full.

Thank you for the kind thought PlutonicPanda, but (sigh) as often expressed here in the past, no one will invest time or money in a business dependent on a lake that OKC can draw all the water from anytime they choose?give it time. I'm sure once OKC gets its pipelines built to draw for other lakes that receive more rainfall, perhaps we can stop drawing from Canton. Canton is beautiful town that has a ton of potential!

So the lake is 12 feet down right now and 63% full. Canton is nearly empty, better hope we get a lot of rain this spring summer.

This has been a really bad fall/winter thus far. Moisture is needed in any form right now.