It's not population growth - it is what the population is using the water on. When the water allocation amount were setup in the 1930 most homes didn't even have yards.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/housing_patterns/pdf/Housing%20by%20Year%20Built.pdf



Sooner or later local governments are going to have to come to drips (grips) with the faucet (fact) that we can't continue to build subdivisions.

The entire Urban/Suburban use for water in the US is only like 12% of all water uses. The two major ones are thermometric 57% and irrigation at 37%.

The entire Urban/Suburban use for water in the US is only like 12% of all water uses. The two major ones are thermometric 57% and irrigation at 37%.

What are they irrigating? Here in Florida we have two water meters - one for household use and the other for irrigation (i.e. - watering the lawn). The reason homes here are built with 2 meters is because the irrigation meter is not charged for sewer.

What are they irrigating? Here in Florida we have two water meters - one for household use and the other for irrigation (i.e. - watering the lawn). The reason homes here are built with 2 meters is because the irrigation meter is not charged for sewer.

farmland

How much water is being used in Oklahoma for fracking? I never see anything about this, but it is a water-intensive exercise.

It's really weird. I watch it almost daily because I have developed an odd fascination with it. Even when it gets heavy rain the "conservation pool" remains around 22% full and rarely moves. I have even seen the level go DOWN after a good rain and in days after, when you would expect inflow from the catchment basin. It's strange.

The conservation pool is up to almost 24%. In May, it was at 18%, so there is improvement. The area has had as much as 9 inches of rain in the last month, but a lot of the rains fed the Cimarron basin more than the North Canadian basin. The rain this weekend definitely moved the needle, though, and there is more expected this week.

I caught a program a few months ago that was discussing this very topic. It seems the base elevation and water allocation rule for many western lakes were done at a time when above average rainfall was being recorded for several years. They have already concluded that Lake Mead and Lake Powell will never be full again. Lake Mead will be bone dry by 2050 and the Colorado River hasn't reached the Gulf of California in over 20 years.

Meanwhile, back at the suburban fringe, new 1/3 acre yards are going in.
I'll believe that when I see it. The colorado river might be the most fickle in the country except for the Mississippi. If you study the history of both of those lakes they have swings in elevation that lasts decades. Lake powell went up by 40 feet last month. The 90s was extremely wet, we've been in a drought for 12 years or so. It'll flip again.

How much water is being used in Oklahoma for fracking? I never see anything about this, but it is a water-intensive exercise.

The anti-fracking posters on here are always ready to take a stab. Too funny.

How much water is being used in Oklahoma for fracking? I never see anything about this, but it is a water-intensive exercise.
2-5 million gallons per well

2-5 million gallons per well

Lol

2-5 million gallons per well


LolAccording to an EPA report the 2 to 5 million per well is accurate. However, the same report says that 15 to 80 percent of fracking fluids are recovered and reused.

I'll believe that when I see it. The colorado river might be the most fickle in the country except for the Mississippi. If you study the history of both of those lakes they have swings in elevation that lasts decades. Lake powell went up by 40 feet last month. The 90s was extremely wet, we've been in a drought for 12 years or so. It'll flip again.

You will believe what when you see it? Powell might have gone up 40 feet but it is still 86 feet below full and the current elevation wil be the highest it is all year. The last time Lake Powel was full was in 1999 - 15 years ago. At the same time Lake Mead lost another 10 feet in elevation because they were storing extra water in Powell (hence the recent 40' rise). The math is pretty basic - the Feds allocated more water than exists in reality which means someone isn't going to get the water they were promised.

Lake Powell Water Level - Summer 2014 Forecast - Lake Powell Forum - TripAdvisor (http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g60911-i1876-k7374021-Lake_Powell_Water_Level_Summer_2014_Forecast-Lake_Powell_Utah.html)

How much water would be saved if everyone didn't flush the commode every time they just pee?????

8440

...In May, it was at 18%, so there is improvement...

Really? I guess I missed that. I watch it all the time and have had the sense that it has been stuck on 22% and change for more than a year now.

The anti-fracking posters on here are always ready to take a stab. Too funny.

He asked a simple question. How is that anti-fracking or taking a stab?

How much water would be saved if everyone didn't flush the commode every time they just pee?????


Not as much as you might think. Sewer systems were designed with the water flow in mind to make sure everything makes it to the treatment plant. When low flow toilets became in vogue the water treatment plants had to start adding water to make up for the lack of water in the system. Besides, all the water that you flush makes its way right back to a river eventually to be used later by someone else. The real culprits are pouring it on the ground and evaporation.

I'm by no means anti-fraccing and frankly get irritated at the current trend to blame everything bad on the energy industry, but questioning how much water is consumed in the drilling process is certainly relevant in a thread about water levels and consumption in the state of Oklahoma.

He asked a simple question. How is that anti-fracking or taking a stab?

A friend of mine sold 4 'draws' from his farm pond to Devon last fall for fracking, at $11,000 a draw. This happened over a 4 month period, and each time it rained he was ready to sell again. It might be a lot of gallons, but the fact that his pond by his house, which is actually pretty good size, can supply a considerable amount of fracking water from a small creek runoff.

Lately, the drillers in the immediate area are drawing water from a creek that is flowing into the Cimmaron River, for the drilling process. If they don't use it, it's going on downstream.

A friend of mine sold 4 'draws' from his farm pond to Devon last fall for fracking, at $11,000 a draw. This happened over a 4 month period, and each time it rained he was ready to sell again. It might be a lot of gallons, but the fact that his pond by his house, which is actually pretty good size, can supply a considerable amount of fracking water from a small creek runoff.

How much water is being used statewide? How much water is in a draw?

Heaven forbid water should go downstream and ultimately flush bays and estuaries. We can't have that. [/sarc]

How much water would be saved if everyone didn't flush the commode every time they just pee?????

8440
My dad always said "if it's yellow let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down". Of course, that was for the water supply at our cabin in Colorado cause water was transported in.

How much water is being used statewide? How much water is in a draw?

Technically I'm not sure how much was in each draw, but his pond is probably 20 - 30 acres and it would drop it 4 - 5 feet each time. But it would replenish on a one to two inch rain due to the catch basin from the creek being large.

The anti-fracking posters on here are always ready to take a stab. Too funny.

Who says I'm "anti-fracking?" You don't have to be a jerk about it. Are you an "environmental rapist?" Come on.

I asked a question. Fracking uses lots of water. Just wanted an answer, not a clueless insult.

On a related note...

The race to stop Las Vegas from running dry - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10932785/The-race-to-stop-Las-Vegas-from-running-dry.html)


However, Las Vegas still uses 219 gallons of water per person per day, one of the highest figures in the US. In San Francisco the figure is just 49 gallons.

Most of that water is used to sprinkle golf courses, parks and lawns so the water authority has declared war on grass, paying homeowners to remove it from their gardens at the rate of $1.50 per square foot.

So far 165 million square feet of turf has been destroyed. Laid end to end in an 18-inch strip it would stretch 90 per cent of the way around the Earth.

On a related note...

The race to stop Las Vegas from running dry - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10932785/The-race-to-stop-Las-Vegas-from-running-dry.html)


Outside Las Vegas’s Bellagio hotel tourists gasp in amazement as fountains shoot 500ft into the air, performing a spectacular dance in time to the music of Frank Sinatra.

Gondolas ferry honeymooners around canals modelled on those of Venice, Roman-themed swimming pools stretch for acres, and thousands of sprinklers keep golf courses lush in the middle of the desert.

While we're on this witch hunt, lets don't bring that home and mention the bricktown canal and fountain, Oklahoma River impounded for aesthetics and recreation, central park turf and water features, if any, and whitewater facility. < I voted for and/or support all of those.

How many golf courses in the metro?

Lets look at it this way. How many people living downtown don't have a yard at all? Now if each of those people watered an average size lawn would that be more or less water than what is in the canal?

Lets look at it this way. How many people living downtown don't have a yard at all? Now if each of those people watered an average size lawn would that be more or less water than what is in the canal?

It was your article.

I don't know what to say then - most water is used to make the ground wet. If we can't correct that through zoning and land-use planning then why the hell do we even have zoning and land-use planning? Saying that the canal and urban parks are the problem is like someone trying to make their house payment by cutting back on appetizers at dinner. You can't get there from here.

While we're on this witch hunt, lets don't bring that home and mention the bricktown canal and fountain, Oklahoma River impounded for aesthetics and recreation, central park turf and water features, if any, and whitewater facility. < I voted for and/or support all of those.

How many golf courses in the metro?

Isn't most of the water at those facilities recycled and used again? The canal doesn't really float anywhere there is just water there. The only time you see water moving in the Oklahoma River is when someone is on it. It is damned up on either side.

False


Outside Las Vegas’s Bellagio hotel tourists gasp in amazement as fountains shoot 500ft into the air, performing a spectacular dance in time to the music of Frank Sinatra.

The maximum height for the water cannon is 240 feet.

False



The maximum height for the water cannon is 240 feet.

It doesn't matter...


While it may look extravagant the Bellagio fountain does not in fact use water from Lake Mead, instead being filled from an underground lake on the hotel’s land which is undrinkable anyway.

The anti-fracking posters on here are always ready to take a stab. Too funny.

And the oil and gas employees are always ready to play the victim. Not sure which is funny.

It doesn't matter...

It does matter. Holes in a story discredits the story. California receives a lot of water from the Colorado for 300 rice farms....incredible they grow rice in an arid state.

My question ? Why build another expensive deeper 'straw' when only an extension would be needed on the straw that is about to suck air ? My sister lives in Vegas and I hear all kinds of stories about water.

Lots of politics in play.

NVM -- article already posted.

While we're on this witch hunt, lets don't bring that home and mention the bricktown canal and fountain, Oklahoma River impounded for aesthetics and recreation, central park turf and water features, if any, and whitewater facility. < I voted for and/or support all of those.

How many golf courses in the metro?

The canal is filled once every 3-4 years when it is drained and cleaned. It uses well water for replenishment when necessary, but generally rain does all of the necessary replacement of evaporated water. Like the canal, the Oklahoma River probably loses a small amount due to evaporation, but that is a very small amount, probably not much more than it lost already when it was burbling through the ditch before it was dammed up. None of the water is used elsewhere; it eventually makes it downstream as it would have without intervention. This is a very different situation than water impounded for drinking water and other uses, and siphoned off of the source.

From the article:




Gondolas ferry honeymooners around canals modelled on those of Venice, Roman-themed swimming pools stretch for acres, and thousands of sprinklers keep golf courses lush in the middle of the desert.

But, as with many things in Sin City, the apparently endless supply of water is an illusion.

We have our water projects for similar aesthetic and recreational purposes. It looks great to have water in the Oklahoma River and not a dry river bed with weeds growing in it most of the year more like what is normal without intervention. The canal is nice and lush compared to what was there before. That was the intent.

Water is water, from a city well, run off or what have you as the source. The planned use for the water for these projects is and was for aesthetics and recreation. It all could be used for other purposes. I'm not saying we should, I'm saying it's a choice made to use it like it is being used.

I see no one wants to get near the same issues with golf courses we have in common.

I wonder if our central park would be successful if it were xeriscaped?

If it was up to me I would have to reconsider if Central Park should at exist at all, for a lot more reasons than water consumption.

I wonder if our central park would be successful if it were xeriscaped?

Ooooh yes sir
http://wsm.wsu.edu/mag_images/big_brother/2009Fall_mastergarden12.jpg

http://www.wendytimm.com/images/Yard%20Pix/Disc1/November%202009%20152.jpg

http://www.castlepinesconnection.com/pages/news/2009/qtr3/cpc/xeriscape_v1.jpg

http://img.geocaching.com/cache/5a09f13c-0bff-4b84-a276-e593befcb7f8.jpg?rnd=0.6810034

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-15x5yxmfuUs/UL4ozIwucmI/AAAAAAAAC70/z2FesyIqjNw/s1600/xeriscape.jpg

OKC could even Xeriscape its medians and highways and it would look a hell of a lot better than the grass, even when it is green, imo.

http://hiphousegirl.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/img_0689.jpg

I'm considering doing my yard like this.... although I'll get more into it when I create a special thread for it.

http://www.thesisterteam.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Suzie-Luke-house2.jpg

Yards are evil. Cars are evil. Houses are evil. Lets all agree to live in tents and drink rain water.

Yesterday I mowed my lawn in the 95° heat in anticipation of the rain today, but I had a glass of water afterwards. Sorry, I am a terrible person...

Yards are evil. Cars are evil. Houses are evil. Lets all agree to live in tents and drink rain water.

How about just living within the confines of the money and resources available? You can't live in OKC and landscape like you live in the rainforest.

Yesterday I mowed my lawn in the 95° heat in anticipation of the rain today, but I had a glass of water afterwards. Sorry, I am a terrible person...you fiend!!!!!!!! ;)

Yesterday I mowed my lawn in the 95° heat in anticipation of the rain today, but I had a glass of water afterwards. Sorry, I am a terrible person...

Off with your head.

How about just living within the confines of the money and resources available? You can't live in OKC and landscape like you live in the rainforest.

Sure you can.

Fair enough. Allow me to rephrase it. You shouldn't live in OKC and landscape like you live in the rainforest.

Yesterday I mowed my lawn in the 95° heat in anticipation of the rain today, but I had a glass of water afterwards. Sorry, I am a terrible person...

You sure are, you should have paid someone to do that for you. The lawn care industry employs thousands of people. Do your part to support the local economy.

That said, with my newly planted lawn, I fired the most recent group I had and started taking care of it on my own. For awhile.

Fair enough. Allow me to rephrase it. You shouldn't live in OKC and landscape like you live in the rainforest.

Unless you can afford the water.

Things are not so dire here as you seem to want them to be.

You shouldn't do it even if you can afford it. Doing the right thing doesn't depend on your income - it depends on your conscience. And maybe that is the problem, some people don't have one. It is a good thing we write laws to regulate the activities of people without one.

You shouldn't do it even if you can afford it. Doing the right thing doesn't depend on your income - it depends on your conscience. And maybe that is the problem, some people don't have one. It is a good thing we write laws to regulate the activities of people without one.

Yeah, because we all know that laws are so effective at stopping those that neither care for, or think they are above, the law...... Am I right Midtowner? You are watering on both odd and even days, aren't you?

Yeah, because we all know that laws are so effective at stopping those that neither care for, or think they are above, the law...... Am I right Midtowner? You are watering on both odd and even days, aren't you?

I water when it needs to. If it's an odd day, I can wait until midnight to water and then water again that day before midnight if it's really hot. It's kind of silly that we have rationing right now anyhow. That said, I'm sure you always obey the speed limit and come to a complete stop at every stop sign.

I water when it needs to. If it's an odd day, I can wait until midnight to water and then water again that day before midnight if it's really hot. It's kind of silly that we have rationing right now anyhow. That said, I'm sure you always obey the speed limit and come to a complete stop at every stop sign.

As has already been determined in another thread on traffic in Oklahoma City.... Those aren't really laws... Merely suggestions.

For the most part I do obey those suggestions.... Especially the older I get.

As has already been determined in another thread on traffic in Oklahoma City.... Those aren't really laws... Merely suggestions.

For the most part I do obey those suggestions.... Especially the older I get.

Strangely, when spotted by a law enforcement officer, each violation carries a penalty if they take the time to cite you for it. But let me suggest this, not all speeders are sociopaths.

--and people who water their laws because they like green lawns in a city which insists we are covered in our water needs for years and years are also not necessarily sociopaths.

Strangely, when spotted by a law enforcement officer, each violation carries a penalty if they take the time to cite you for it. But let me suggest this, not all speeders are sociopaths.

--and people who water their laws because they like green lawns in a city which insists we are covered in our water needs for years and years are also not necessarily sociopaths.

I'm pretty sure the speeders in the referenced thread were all sociopaths.

My point was that laws don't stop people from doing what the law is intended to prevent as JtF suggested.

From day one in this thread you have come across as the type that would dump all the water in Lake Hefner on your lawn, if you could, and everyone else be damned..... Could that be construed to be sociopathic?

It sounds to me like OKC is being very proactive in water issues.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/4984643?embargo=1



Coming upgrades to Oklahoma City’s water system include plans to begin pumping treated wastewater back into Lake Hefner.

The Water Utilities Trust on Tuesday agreed to a five-year, $1 billion plan that includes work on a second pipeline to ship drinking water from southeast Oklahoma, steps to integrate separate parts of the water distribution system, and improvements to enable reuse of water from Oklahoma City’s Deer Creek wastewater treatment plant.



Treated wastewater would be of a consistently higher quality than the variable river water feeding Lake Hefner, said Marsha Slaughter, the utilities director.

not all speeders are sociopaths.thank you! ;)

thank you! ;)

Of course some are though. :wink:

Of course some are though. :wink:now I have a buzzer in my Fiat to warn me when I get over a certain speed, so it's helped

now I have a buzzer in my Fiat to warn me when I get over a certain speed, so it's helped

If the buzzer fits, it must acquit.

The Water Utilities Trust on Tuesday agreed to a five-year, $1 billion plan

That is as much as the City spent on MAPS I and MAPS III combined. It makes the cost of the new Hefner water treatment plant look like child's play. It was only $48.5 million.

From day one in this thread you have come across as the type that would dump all the water in Lake Hefner on your lawn, if you could, and everyone else be damned..... Could that be construed to be sociopathic?

From day one, I haven't bought the premise that we need to overreact to the situation. We took one water release from Canton, lake Hefner is now fine. Canton, not so much. The Water Utilities Trust has our water needs at present level and well beyond taken care of for years and years. OKC is not in the middle of a desert and water is something we have an embarassment of riches of.

Go xeriscape your own lawn. Leave mine the hell alone.