It matters more what rain is falling in it's catchment area than at the lake. As of a week ago the vast majority has been in a severe hydrologic drought. It might get bumped up this week to a less extreme category but it will likely not yet be normal. Plus in oklahoma only a small amount of land drains into it compared to the Canadian and whatever is north of it, so on an average year more might come from upstream but the Texas panhandle has been in a worse drought than us. We have had several rains this year that looked promising but fell more in the surrounding rivers.

The N Canadian watershed is super narrow in that part of the state, I don't think its more than 30 miles wide in some areas.

The rapid depletion of the Ogallala Aquifer in NW OK means any groundwater gets sucked into replenishing that rather than feeding streams that would otherwise flow into the lake.

Usually the max the ground can absorb is less than an inch in a thunderstorm so at least some will continue downstream but yea the state of the aquifer hurts on how much gets downstream unless you have the storms coming back to back to back like right now.

The N Canadian watershed is super narrow in that part of the state, I don't think its more than 30 miles wide in some areas.

The rapid depletion of the Ogallala Aquifer in NW OK means any groundwater gets sucked into replenishing that rather than feeding streams that would otherwise flow into the lake.

What is causing the depletion of the aquifer? Farming? Fracking? Drought?

I understand how drought etc. negatively affects what makes it down to the lake from the catchment basin. What I am saying is that if two inches of rain fall on top of the lake itself, there should be roughly two inches more elevation added to the lake after such a rain. It's not like two inches of snow; two inches of rain should equal two inches of elevation whether it falls in a rain gauge or into a swimming pool...or into a lake. I'm trying to figure out what caused it to actually BACKSLIDE a month or two ago when I know rain was reported at the lake, and why it doesn't gain elevation at a similar rate to the reported precip.

I understand how drought etc. negatively affects what makes it down to the lake from the catchment basin. What I am saying is that if two inches of rain fall on top of the lake itself, there should be roughly two inches more elevation added to the lake after such a rain. It's not like two inches of snow; two inches of rain should equal two inches of elevation whether it falls in a rain gauge or into a swimming pool...or into a lake. I'm trying to figure out what caused it to actually BACKSLIDE a month or two ago when I know rain was reported at the lake, and why it doesn't gain elevation at a similar rate to the reported precip.

Not a hydrologist, but off the top of my head a couple of things come to mind: 1) Evaporation, and 2) Absorption. There are many areas of the lake that are dry; perhaps the two inches of rain that fall are quickly absorbed into the exposed soil in the lake basin?

Agricultural irrigation is the most, though oil extraction is up there. Another thing is farms/ranches have diverted what use to flow off there property to storage pools. At least at one point large cities were over drawing too, Ammerilo may still be since lake meridith always sounds like it is getting worse, I read somewhere the water levels were improving near Lubbock though.

Not a hydrologist, but off the top of my head a couple of things come to mind: 1) Evaporation, and 2) Absorption. There are many areas of the lake that are dry; perhaps the two inches of rain that fall are quickly absorbed into the exposed soil in the lake basin?
That makes some sense. I do notice that it is actually gaining at a better rate commensurate to precipitation lately, which would bolster your theory, as the ground is now more moist.

The N Canadian watershed is super narrow in that part of the state, I don't think its more than 30 miles wide in some areas.

The rapid depletion of the Ogallala Aquifer in NW OK means any groundwater gets sucked into replenishing that rather than feeding streams that would otherwise flow into the lake.

This.... and also the fact that there are water sucking cedar trees all over the place up there. I have a friend who went into business around Ft Supply pulling them out of the ground with a tractor.

Agricultural irrigation is the most, though oil extraction is up there. Another thing is farms/ranches have diverted what use to flow off there property to storage pools. At least at one point large cities were over drawing too, Ammerilo may still be since lake meridith always sounds like it is getting worse, I read somewhere the water levels were improving near Lubbock though.

I do know that a lot of oil companies drilling in the Mississippian Play were using Salt Fork of AR and Canadian River water, but its becoming rarer. Some companies like Devon are starting to recycle water for drilling ops, but it isn't cheap.

The Ogallala is HUGE, stretching from about Lubbock into the SE corner of Wyoming. Most of the farming operations in the great plains tap into it, so it is extremely taxed. In NE New Mexico, where ironically the N Canadian originates, the aquifer is essentially tapped out. And given the slow drying out of the TX panhandle (like the sad state of Lake Meredith), the future is pretty cloudy. I'm really not sure what places like Amarillo are going to do, and it's more reason for OKC to diversify its water sources ASAP.


That makes some sense. I do notice that it is actually gaining at a better rate commensurate to precipitation lately, which would bolster your theory, as the ground is now more moist.

Also, something else of note. Since Canton Lake is not downriver from any sort of urban area with a lot of paved surfaces, any moisture will take some time in reaching the lake since it is absorbed into the ground. Whereas Lake Hefner, Arcadia, Stanley Draper, and other sources downriver from OKC, the rise in levels can be almost instant after a heavy rainstorm, with all the quick runoff from streets, buildings, etc.

This.... and also the fact that there are water sucking cedar trees all over the place up there. I have a friend who went into business around Ft Supply pulling them out of the ground with a tractor.

That is definitely a valid point...why we have so many cedar trees is beyond me. I know their seed spreads like wildfire but surely we could remove them from our recreational areas and replace them with trees that don't use so much water. Cost, I know...

That is definitely a valid point...why we have so many cedar trees is beyond me. I know their seed spreads like wildfire but surely we could remove them from our recreational areas and replace them with trees that don't use so much water. Cost, I know...

Rumor has it the fastest way to get more cedar trees ... disturb a cedar tree. Second fastest ... don't disturb a cedar tree.

Rumor has it the fastest way to get more cedar trees ... disturb a cedar tree. Second fastest ... don't disturb a cedar tree.

Doesn't sound like that's too much of a rumor as it is the golden rule...

To control the cedar problem we need more controlled burns.

Rumor has it the fastest way to get more cedar trees ... disturb a cedar tree. Second fastest ... don't disturb a cedar tree.

I have disturbed probably hundreds of cedar trees.
When killing a cedar tree in a pasture like setting I always made the cut just above the ground. I drilled a small hole and filled it with a very mild mixture of round-up.... It worked every time with zero re-sprouts.

Have looked for current Canton Lake water level but have found nothing. Anyone have a web site reference to the current water level?

The website that displays them is not currently loading.

The website that displays them is not currently loading.

Okay thank. Thought it was just me not loading lol.

I get the fishing report from the Department of Wildlife each week. With the fishing report most of the reports contain lake levels. Canton has been at 12 1/2' below normal for a few months according to this.

I get the fishing report from the Department of Wildlife each week. With the fishing report most of the reports contain lake levels. Canton has been at 12 1/2' below normal for a few months according to this.

That's better than the negative 21 feet I last saw...

with all of the rains Colorado has been having, I wonder if any of it will show up eventually at Canton in the form of run-off? That would be awesome, as would a heavy rain cell parking over the lake for a few days. It's only too bad the heavy flooding OKC experienced in May/June didn't move NW to Canton.

It is good to hear it 10 feet higher than beginning of summer so perhaps the CO floods is having an impact.

No...Canton water comes from NE New Mexico.

I would say most of the runoff for the floods is going into the Platte or Arkansas River Basins.

The watershed for the Canadian doesn't go further north than NE New Mexico, but the floods could recharge the Ogallala Aquifer over the long run.

national weather service shows canton at 33%.
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/graphicast.php?site=oun&gc=6

All of the rain from pretty much Denver to the north have gone into the Platte which heads into Nebraska. The rains around Colorado Springs to the south go into the Arkansas.

Canton is at 1602.5, basically the same place it was May 1. It is not up 10 ft. Luckily, we have had a cool summer.

You should use the usgs.gov measurements or Corps of Engineer stats.

4495
I would say most of the runoff for the floods is going into the Platte or Arkansas River Basins.

The watershed for the Canadian doesn't go further north than NE New Mexico, but the floods could recharge the Ogallala Aquifer over the long run.

My mistake guys. I was excited by some of the posts and thought/hoped Canton was getting nourishment too.

It will on Saturday.

Does anyone have the current water level status at Canton?

It has pretty much hovered near 21% of normal capacity since the end of summer

NewsOK has a story on this today. Comments is like rereading every page of this thread.

Yeah...its going to be tough for them if they don't get a wet spring. Of course it'll be tough for OKC as well since there wouldn't be a source to pull from. Someone had posted on the story that Canton Lake was built for that area and Enid for water and OKC didn't get rights to it until the 90s. Does OKC have full control of it now or are the other areas up there still using it?

Definitely feel for the businesses that rely on the boating traffic and such on the lake, however that wasn't why it was built.

Enid and the surrounding communities showed an amazing lack of foresight by only using ground water.

Enid and the surrounding communities showed an amazing lack of foresight by only using ground water.

Weren't they planing to use Canton, it probably took decades to go from an idea to finishing construction, but by the time it was finally built by the Army Corps of Engineers was no longer something they could afford to pick up the tab for

Looking back at the gauge history, Hefner's level has been dropping pretty steadily for awhile. I hadn't been out there for a couple of months until last Monday and was surprised then to see where the shoreline wasn't. The river and stinchcomb have looked fairly high during the recent cold weather. I haven't noticed a lot of change in Overholser either but I see it more often since I live nearby so I might not have noticed changes as much.

Weren't they planing to use Canton, it probably took decades to go from an idea to finishing construction, but by the time it was finally built by the Army Corps of Engineers was no longer something they could afford to pick up the tab for


From the Army Corps site...

HISTORY AND DEVELOPMENT - Congress authorized the Canton Lake project in 1938 for flood control. The Flood Control Acts of 1946 and 1948 authorized irrigation and municipal water supply storage for the city of Enid, Okla. Because Enid did not access its storage rights, in 1955 Oklahoma City began a series of 5-year contracts with the federal government to utilize Canton’s water storage. Both the irrigation storage and the water storage were reassigned to Oklahoma City through Section 102 of the Water Resources Development Act of 1990. This project was started in 1940 but World War II temporarily halted construction. After the war, the Corps of Engineers resumed work, and the project was completed in late 1948 and formally dedicated in May of 1949. The cost to build the Canton Project was $11 million.

I understand there were some issues with the gate being damaged from flotsam some months ago. Wonder if that got fixed? It looks today like there might be some debris under the gate keeping it from shutting completely. Hefner and Overholser are both down and water is going downstream. Isn't this about like ten thousand leaky faucets?

5854

Gee whiz, quit worrying about water. There's plenty more where that came from. You would think OKC didn't have any backup source! Dripping with sarcasm.

Gee whiz, quit worrying about water. There's plenty more where that came from. You would think OKC didn't have any backup source! Dripping with sarcasm.

We're in the process of developing backup sources in SE Oklahoma. Canton, however, will probably always be tapped first in that of our sources, it's the only one not requiring a pipeline.

Assuming Canton has water.

We're in the process of developing backup sources in SE Oklahoma. Canton, however, will probably always be tapped first in that of our sources, it's the only one not requiring a pipeline.

Once they have the second pipeline it would not be that surprising it they use the spare capacity from that first or a mix of the two, especially like now when Canton is far lower than the other lakes will likely ever be. It is hard to say which will be cheaper; Canton does not have the costs of a pipeline, but they still have to pay for the release, lose a lot of the volume in the transfer and it will cost more to treat water from it.

So how is Canton Lake fairing now? Looking at radar, another wave of rain seems headed towards it's watershed.

It's really weird. I watch it almost daily because I have developed an odd fascination with it. Even when it gets heavy rain the "conservation pool" remains around 22% full and rarely moves. I have even seen the level go DOWN after a good rain and in days after, when you would expect inflow from the catchment basin. It's strange.

It's really weird. I watch it almost daily because I have developed an odd fascination with it. Even when it gets heavy rain the "conservation pool" remains around 22% full and rarely moves. I have even seen the level go DOWN after a good rain and in days after, when you would expect inflow from the catchment basin. It's strange.

They still do some very small release, which are generally the reason they go down around the time it has rained, of course evaporation is another factor. My best guesses are something to do with maintenance of the equipment, some sort of attempt to keep algae or something else from growing or could be related to some rules about how long water can be impounded. I remember there was some stories about how stupid the impounding laws were, where they were having to release large amounts from an lake that was the water supply for cities in a drought area downstream because of how long X amount had been stored there, to an area that was already flooding, rivers were already flowing over levies and more rain was forecast to hit the flooded area for a few more weeks.

So how is Canton Lake fairing now? Looking at radar, another wave of rain seems headed towards it's watershed.

Canton Lake (http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/CANT.lakepage.html)

How is lake Hefner doing? I am thinking that Canton may never be full again.

How is lake Hefner doing? I am thinking that Canton may never be full again.

USGS Current Conditions for USGS 07159550 Lake Hefner at Oklahoma City, OK (http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ok/nwis/uv?site_no=07159550)

How is lake Hefner doing? I am thinking that Canton may never be full again.

That depends on where the rain falls, the rainfall maps till this last month have been a tragic comedy for the last three years. Not only has there been a drought but also when there has been any significant rain it will practically avoid Canton's catchment area but hit north, south and/or east of it.

Optimal elevation for Hefner is 1199, so at 1195+ it is less than 4 feet below that level. Not bad.

The monthly historical data for Canton shows no releases in 2014. Evap for May alone was 9.58 inches.

Monthly Charts for Canton Lake (http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/CANTcharts.html)

The monthly historical data for Canton shows no releases in 2014. Evap for May alone was 9.58 inches.

Monthly Charts for Canton Lake (http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/CANTcharts.html)

There have been spikes on the releases chart that shows hourly info, unless they are some sort of glitch from when it rains but they generally track with the hourly data on lake level.
CANT Releases (http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/images/x-y/CANT.qt.html)
Canton Lake (http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/CANT.lakepage.html)

I don't see how Canton lake can get back to normal levels. That would take weeks of constant rain sitting right over the lake. Or in other words,it would take a miracle.

There have been spikes on the releases chart that shows hourly info, unless they are some sort of glitch from when it rains but they generally track with the hourly data on lake level.
CANT Releases (http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/images/x-y/CANT.qt.html)
Canton Lake (http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/CANT.lakepage.html)

I've seen that. The page has a disclaimer for unverified data. "Releases
These data are gathered electronically and, as presented, have not undergone any form of quality control. These data are not guaranteed to be valid or correct." There is probably some truth between the two, like small releases for maintenance of the gates of short enough duration that don't amount to significant enough flow to make the report. Or the data gathering equipment gets worked on, or disturbed when nothing is really happening.

I don't see how Canton lake can get back to normal levels. That would take weeks of constant rain sitting right over the lake. Or in other words,it would take a miracle.

If you mean recover this year, yea it would probably take a hurricane remnant coming in and stopping over the NW Oklahoma. More practically what it needs is normal or above average rainfall west/northwest of the lake for a sustained period of time, what actually falls 'in' the lake is only a tiny fraction of it's supply. It has three terrible years to make up for and I do not remember the year or two before that being banner years either, it will take time but should eventually recover. It may take a few to several years though.

Optimal elevation for Hefner is 1199, so at 1195+ it is less than 4 feet below that level. Not bad.

Sure looks a heck of a lot better than it did before the rains came.

8436

I don't see how Canton lake can get back to normal levels. That would take weeks of constant rain sitting right over the lake. Or in other words,it would take a miracle.

A miracle to some, a curse to others. We're going to have a severe flooding year eventually, nature usually balances itself out. Another reason besides drinking water Oklahoma has so many man made lakes is flood control.

One storm dumped over five inches of rain last week in Hinton. So things can change quickly.

How is lake Hefner doing? I am thinking that Canton may never be full again.

I caught a program a few months ago that was discussing this very topic. It seems the base elevation and water allocation rule for many western lakes were done at a time when above average rainfall was being recorded for several years. They have already concluded that Lake Mead and Lake Powell will never be full again. Lake Mead will be bone dry by 2050 and the Colorado River hasn't reached the Gulf of California in over 20 years.

Meanwhile, back at the suburban fringe, new 1/3 acre yards are going in.

Convenient for you to take a stab at suburbia, but it's just the shear population growth of these cities out west that are putting the strains on the water supply. It's frightening because the environment out there is just not made for the millions that live out there.

Convenient for you to take a stab at suburbia, but it's just the shear population growth of these cities out west that are putting the strains on the water supply. It's frightening because the environment out there is just not made for the millions that live out there.

It's not population growth - it is what the population is using the water on. When the water allocation amount were setup in the 1930 most homes didn't even have yards.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/housing_patterns/pdf/Housing%20by%20Year%20Built.pdf


While the size of the home has increased steadily
based on the year it was built, in recent years the size
of the lot the home is built on has declined. The
median lot size on which a single-family home2 was
built, as shown in Figure 5, increased from 0.25 acres
for homes built in the 1960s or earlier to 0.32 acres
for homes built in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, and
then declined in the 2000s (median of 0.28 acres and
0.25 acres for single-family homes built between
2000 and 2004 and between 2005 and 2009,
respectively). The lot size for mobile or
manufactured homes has, however, risen
substantially over the decades. Manufactured or
mobile homes built in the 1960s or earlier generally
sat on 0.19 acres of land – this number rose to a high
of 1.01 acres in the 1990s and the early 2000s (2000
to 2004) and declined to 0.76 acres for those built
between 2005 and 2009, but this decline is not
statistically significant.


Sooner or later local governments are going to have to come to drips (grips) with the faucet (fact) that we can't continue to build subdivisions.