You're singing to the choir here! I quit watering my lawn years ago. As a boat owner with my boat sitting on mud more often than not the last three years I'm trying to do my part. Viva brown grass!

If this type of weather cycle happens more frequently we many need to look into feeding water from Draper/Atoka pipeline to Hefner. Though without additional capacity like from the planned second pipeline and Lake Sardis or somewhere else that may not even be feasible.

Already happening. See the pipeline that's been going along I-44 down by the airport? That's to continue over to a pump station off MacArthur, and then I believe pump water to Lake Hefner (and then for treatment).

so does this mean more traffic delays for no immediate reason contributing to the imaginary atmospheric carbon footprint of inept planning or whut? =)

c'mon HWTJ . . . don't wuss out on graphing all of this now . . . why . . . it could have a negative effect on the view from The Devon Tower, The ChessiePBoathouse and the former location of Bahama Breeze . . . not to mention BrickTown . . .
perhaps The Lagoon at Lake Hefner could be a Polar Bear sanctuary? Just kidding: Not enough Ice.

chop/chop . . . as "THEY" used to say . . . before Obama2..... =)

(i apolgize in advance for selfishly cross-referencing points of concern involving politics etc. mea culpa)

Already happening. See the pipeline that's been going along I-44 down by the airport? That's to continue over to a pump station off MacArthur, and then I believe pump water to Lake Hefner (and then for treatment).

Almost done fergot: Yup.
(with apologies for cross-referencing points of concern including Dust Bowls =)

Already happening. See the pipeline that's been going along I-44 down by the airport? That's to continue over to a pump station off MacArthur, and then I believe pump water to Lake Hefner (and then for treatment).Wait.. So there going to pump water from Draper, feed it into a pipeline, then into lake Hefner and then back into the water treatment???? Wouldn't it make more sense to just pump it straight from Draper to the treatment center?

It definately does not come from the Colorado River, more like Southeastern Oklahoma.

Speaking of rivers, I don't know if it would be worthwhile, but maybe OKC could bring water down from the Arkansas River, via extending the 3 ft. wide Kaw Lake Pipeline that ends in Stillwater. But I imagine the pipe would be too expensive, and there's only so much water you can get out of a 3 ft. wide pipe.

Wait.. So there going to pump water from Draper, feed it into a pipeline, then into lake Hefner and then back into the water treatment???? Wouldn't it make more sense to just pump it straight from Draper to the treatment center?

Of course "there" are. Why do you appear to be so incredulous at the fantastic attack on reason and science and stuff?
(our water resources are being managed from a station on the dark side of the moon replete with a humming monolith =)

(sorry: forgot the subliminal plug: stop feeding lawn grass water. doing so flies in the face of the gravity of the situation.)

Of course "there" are. Why do you appear to be so incredulous at the fantastic attack on reason and science and stuff?
(our water resources are being managed from a station on the dark side of the moon replete with a humming monolith)Excuse me..... *they're* . and what's going on with moon?

Of course "there" are. Why do you appear to be so incredulous at the fantastic attack on reason and science and stuff?
(our water resources are being managed from a station on the dark side of the moon replete with a humming monolith =)To answer that... I question everything. Ask me a question and I'll likely answer it with question. :)

Okay . . . So when will [the] city buy Canton water and how much will it cost being pumped all the way from China?
(please be advised that: "how am i supposed to know?" is not a fair inquisitive/interrogative "answer" . . . is it?=)

("the moon"?: pink floyd plus 2001 Space Od[etc])

Speaking of rivers, I don't know if it would be worthwhile, but maybe OKC could bring water down from the Arkansas River, via extending the 3 ft. wide Kaw Lake Pipeline that ends in Stillwater. But I imagine the pipe would be too expensive, and there's only so much water you can get out of a 3 ft. wide pipe.

That Kaw Lake Pipeline is in bad shape and is being evaluated to possibly replace. I'd be all for a 36" pipeline from Stillwater to Hefner but don't see it happening.

Wait.. So there going to pump water from Draper, feed it into a pipeline, then into lake Hefner and then back into the water treatment???? Wouldn't it make more sense to just pump it straight from Draper to the treatment center?

storage brotha...it's all about storage (i think)

it's mos'ly about "storage" . . . yet, one must admit, it also involves "usage" . . .
sorta like that gubmint subsidazed train t' Norman and points south . . . ?
i think this may all be about the unintended consequences of paradigms in conflict with reality. (politics)
oh! and infrastructure . . . or inferrrencestructure . . . whatever . . . =)

Okay . . . So when will [the] city buy Canton water and how much will it cost being pumped all the way from China?
(please be advised that: "how am i supposed to know?" is not a fair inquisitive/interrogative "answer" . . . is it?=)

("the moon"?: pink floyd plus 2001 Space Od[etc])HA.. If it's coming from China then they might as well market it as Red Kool Aid. Either the toxic waste from China or the radioactive lakes nears Chernobyl. lol

...or we could all just say hey, why don't we figure out a way to live that doesn't require so much water.

...or we could all just say hey, why don't we figure out a way to live that doesn't require so much water.Your gonna hate me for saying this, I have a big lush yard and it won't stay that way without water. However, I have taken measures to reduce my water usage examples we going to tap into a well for our yard, anything that comes out of our sinks goes to a reservoir and then goes to our toilets (when needed), and switched over to "water saving" facets. Not much, but, I'm sure it has some kind of impact.

"The flow down the Canadian to Canton is reduced and I believe there is a dispute with Texas over their use of the water but it also may be drought related because Lake Meridith , north of Amarillo has had very little water in it for years;..."

N.B. The Canadian River of Lake Meredith is not the same river as that which flows through Canton. The river from Canton is the North Canadian which starts near Ft. Supply with the confluence of the Beaver River (think Oklahoma panhandle) and Wolf Creek from the northern tier of counties in the Texas panhandle. The Canadian River from Lake Meredith is the one through Camargo, Taloga, north of Thomas, etc., that flows between Mustang and Tuttle and on to Norman.

Your gonna hate me for saying this, I have a big lush yard and it won't stay that way without water. However, I have taken measures to reduce my water usage examples we going to tap into a well for our yard, anything that comes out of our sinks goes to a reservoir and then goes to our toilets (when needed), and switched over to "water saving" facets. Not much, but, I'm sure it has some kind of impact.

I see a lot of people using their sprinkler system in the middle of the day when it's the hottest and also when it's raining. I know they are on timers but take a few seconds to shut it off if it's supposed to rain.

I see a lot of people using their sprinkler system in the middle of the day when it's the hottest and also when it's raining. I know they are on timers but take a few seconds to shut it off if it's supposed to rain.Oh yeah we have a rain sensor which helps a lot. But, I know what you mean too when I go out when its raining cats and dogs and all these commercial properties have their sprinkler just going ape and the same thing for in the front of our neighborhood.

Sorry about that, trying to follow those rivers on Google Earth must have made my eyes cross. But they both come from the same drought plagued region of the southwest so unfortunately my mistake doesn't change the water levels.

OKC doesn't have to 'buy' water from Canton, it already owns the water rights. When it's time, the city asks the Army Corps of Engineers for water and meets with the Canton Lake Advisory Committee for acceptance.

A couple of issues here:

#1. As of this time (mid-December) Canton is about 9 feet low and Hefner is about 16 feet low. OKC can access only 10K acre-feet of water which, under best case scenario, would raise the level only about 2.5 feet. Another part of this issue is that when it's time for a release, there are actually two releases. I got this information from a couple of city workers at Overholser a few years back. Here's why there's two: When the initial release is done, some of the water is lost due to absorption into the riverbed. And btw, it also takes 72 hours to reach the Overholser canal dam from Canton. But in addition to the riverbed absorption, it also picks up all the trash and debris in the river. By the time it reaches the city, the water has lost what's called "turbidity" which means it just not any good anymore. So that batch of water is released from Overholser to continue downstream. So in effect, it's a waste.

Issue #2 deals with getting water from another source. Since Hefner is a manmade lake, it has only one gravity intake feedpoint; the canal on the west side. Keep in mind Hefner is about 43 feet LOWER in elevation than Overholser. Overholser's elevation at full is 1242 feet above sea level. Hefner's elevation at full is 1199 feet. There's no pipeline input at all. And the only way to let water out of Hefner is to turn on your faucets. Someone raised the issue of Sardis, but that would demand a pipeline all the way from the other side of McAlester to NW OKC. And it's all an uphill climb from there which means pumping stations along the way. There has been some discussion regarding building a second pipeline from Atoka (which is pumped into Draper Lake) to OKC, but it's not clear which lake it would feed.

#3. There has been some repair work being done at the Canton dam by the Army Corps of Engineers, so water can't be released from Canton until after that repair work is completed.

Personally, I don't see anything improving until spring of 2013 when Oklahoma gets back into its rainy/storm season again, so we're talking March or April at the earliest, because we definitely don't get much rain during the winter.

Outside of banning agriculture (vast majority of use) and watering lawns all the conservation is a drop in the bucket. You're definitely playing politics with that statement. The city of Seattle dropped its water usage by 20% per person strictly through conservation efforts [link (page 39)]. The same thing could be done in Okc by implementing their policies: -The seasonal rate structure is credited with saving close to 5 mgd since 1990. - Plumbing codes and regulations have saved more than 4 mgd. -Improvements in system efficiency have saved approximately 13 mgd since 1990. -The Home Water Savers Program involved 330,000 customers and saved nearly 6 mgd. It's time to stop pretending that we can bend nature to our will and implement some aggressive water conservation policies in this city.

Here's the link: http://www.epa.gov/WaterSense/docs/utilityconservation_508.pdf

Here's how Canton Lake looks today. And the plan is to go 7 feet lower. If OKC takes water now, and we do not have a wet spring, there will be NO WATER. Canton will be only a little above inactive pool. If there is no water really means there is no water.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/movieposterservice/CantonLake/305249_10152446357685265_456939026_n.jpg"

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/movieposterservice/CantonLake/537337_10152446356875265_2129265611_n.jpg"]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/movieposterservice/CantonLake/537337_10152446356875265_2129265611_n.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/movieposterservice/CantonLake/408449_10152446355625265_1356587022_n.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/movieposterservice/CantonLake/16805_10152446354445265_1512047771_n.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w193/movieposterservice/CantonLake/227639_10152446355020265_1748118728_n.jpg

The problem with Lake Hefner is that there is really no water intake other than what comes down the river from Canton. People probably think that the creek that goes under NW Expressway by Joe's Crabshack feeds into Hefner but it doesn't. It bypasses the lake. The lake, for all accounts, is a pool.

Guess it's time to start buying bottled water. My water bill last month was a whopping $9.80..for one person, that's not too shabby.

While we realize OKC has every right to the water in the lake due to their contract, sometimes something greater than rights comes into play and a moral compass should be used to check our actions. The small amount of good that will come from the amount of water they will receive is a very short term fix for them in this extended drought situation facing our state and much of the nation. While they have the right to take the water, is it morally correct to wreck and destroy Canton Lake, possibly kill all the fish in it and cause many people of Western OK to loose their jobs and businesses? I think most would agree it's not. We have heard from experts from the Fish and Game Dept that if this water is released it is highly probable that we will have a total fish kill in Canton lake. We don't need experts to tell us what will happen to local businesses and employees due to lack of lake traffic, it will be devastating to many communities of Western Oklahoma who depend on lake traffic to support them and their employees. It will also hurt most other lakes in the state as Canton lake supplies the Walleye that those lakes are stocked with. It will do OKC a small amount of good for a short time, but it will do our area great harm for a long time. It just doesn't add up.

You are EXACTLY correct! As a member of the Canton Lake Association I sat in a meeting yesterday with the organization that that is responsible for supplying the drinking water for OKC and surrounding communities, and they don't have a viable back up plan in place should rains not come this spring! If I were a citizen of that part of the city that is supplied from the water from Canton lake and then Overholser and Hefner, I would be very nervous about this situation! Water rationing and water conservation awareness should have been going on for over a year now as the drought has been here for at least two. I think the majority of people in the City have no idea how severe this could become very very quickly! Oklahoma City Water Utilities Trust which is charge of providing water to the city, plans to take another draw from Canton lake. The proposed 30,000 acre feet will devastate the local economies surrounding Canton lake and potentially kill all fish in the lake according to the Wildlife dept. The Wildlife Dept has spent millions of tax payer $$ over the last 20 plus years building the fish population in Canton lake. All will be lost if the City takes the water and we don't get spring rains. Blue Green algae will then grow in the shallow waters and potentially ruin the water source for quite sometime. It's estimated that in the extended drought we are in, it could take as little as 5 years and as many as 8 for Canton lake fish numbers to return and who knows how long until lake levels stabilize. The organization involved needs to seek alternative solutions besides Canton Lake as a water source for the residents of OKC that now currently depend on that water, because if they take this draw and kill the lake, then you guys will all be in deep trouble next year! If I lived there I would be checking it out, it's far more serious than most realize! According to all forecast this drought isn't going anywhere anytime soon!

This is kind of scary! I don't understand why OKC, along with all other suburbs, aren't taking heavier measures.

Mark - Thanks for sharing your perspective from "upstream." You are correct in that we have been living in OKC as if the Canton water was virtually inexhaustible, and that water levels there were as good or better than they are here. Clearly those assumptions are incorrect.

Maybe this is the time that Oklahoma Citians assume greater responsibility for the water that our two communities share.

I just don't understand how this isn't making major headlines across the state. It seems that this is becoming very serious and almost every person I know is completely unaware of this. In my neighborhood, Asheforde Oaks, there are sprinklers that come on every night and about 4 heads are broken and I mean it floods down the street like there is a monsoon. There are places all over Edmond like this. Drive around at 3am and you will see how many places flood their yards(a lot of time the street) with stupid amounts of water. This even happens in the daytime in some places. You know humanity is really smart when it's poring rain and you drive down the street and you see people running there sprinkler systems for hours. smh :/

Isn't there a proposed reservoir for east okc on the books for a decade or better sounds to me that this needs to be moved from proposal to action soon as we run out of water resources in this 2 year drought it should become clear that we need this built. It may be a decade or better before we can draw from it but it should be plainly obvious that it needs to happen sooner or later.

I wonder how much rain we would need to get canton back to normal

I just don't understand how this isn't making major headlines across the state.

PluPan, do you not read the paper? It was a major headline on the front page of the Oklahoman today.

It was either featured or mentioned in related topic stories at least monthly during the the summer last year

PluPan, do you not read the paper? It was a major headline on the front page of the Oklahoman today.No, I usually just watch News9 and read news stories online. I have seen it a few times here and there.

The Wildlife Dept has spent millions of tax payer $$ over the last 20 plus years building the fish population in Canton lake.

I agree with all you are saying about but I want to correct this point. The Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation receives no tax appropriations.

About the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation (http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/aboutodwc/who_pays.htm)

When rain comes to the state, I wish for it to pour down upstream from Canton!

I wrote to my local Councilman concerning OKC water and if there was a contingency plan for getting water if the drought continues. Of course, he didn't respond. Of course, I would guess that the Oklahoma River will have enough of that lovely brown water to thrive.



Isn't there a proposed reservoir for east okc on the books for a decade or better sounds to me that this needs to be moved from proposal to action soon as we run out of water resources in this 2 year drought it should become clear that we need this built. It may be a decade or better before we can draw from it but it should be plainly obvious that it needs to happen sooner or later.

I wonder how much rain we would need to get canton back to normal

Oklahoma city is NOT in a water crisis

I wrote to my local Councilman concerning OKC water and if there was a contingency plan for getting water if the drought continues. Of course, he didn't respond. Of course, I would guess that the Oklahoma River will have enough of that lovely brown water to thrive.

Isnt the Oklahoma river just a fancy name for the north canadian river............

Isnt the Oklahoma river just a fancy name for the north canadian river............

Yea, it was mostly branding for events, since their was some hopes to create statewide or regional draws.

Oklahoma city is NOT in a water crisis

Tell that to the person who I saw walking out on Lake Hefner today. My guess is he got at least 500 feet in off the "old" shore line, lol.

Tell that to the person who I saw walking out on Lake Hefner today. My guess is he got at least 500 feet in off the "old" shore line, lol.

While we are at a concerning point, should be trying to conserve water and are being negatively affected. It probably is too early to say it is a crisis for the metro.

Oklahoma city is NOT in a water crisis

This post finally convinces me you must be bursting at the seams with nonsense.

No, I usually just watch News9 and read news stories online. I have seen it a few times here and there.

I might not be a good idea, then, to complain about something not being in the headlines when you don't read the headlines. LOL

I might not be a good idea, then, to complain about something not being in the headlines when you don't read the headlines. LOLWell, you're probably right. What I meant was, that it just seems like no one is really concerned about it and I would think looking at pictures of lakes around parts of the state and being at Hefner and witnessing first hand how low the lake is, I would just think it would be discussed. I haven't really heard much of it on any local news station and certainly haven't heard from anybody I know(except like 2 people). That's all.

Well, you're probably right. What I meant was, that it just seems like no one is really concerned about it and I would think looking at pictures of lakes around parts of the state and being at Hefner and witnessing first hand how low the lake is, I would just think it would be discussed. I haven't really heard much of it on any local news station and certainly haven't heard from anybody I know(except like 2 people). That's all.

I agree that it isn't much of a topic of conversation among people I talk to on a daily basis, but that hardly means that no one is really concerned about it. I have heard a lot about it on local news stations.

Nothing like a little dirt in your mouth while biking around the lake due to all the dirt being blown.
What a blight and an eyesore......

I'm gonna end up going to the great lakes for my fishing this.

I can't speak to the whole of OKC being in a water crisis, but I can promise you that if this drought continues the 200,000 plus people who rely on water from Canton Lake will be in a water crisis very very soon.

Low lake levels leave plenty of ground for metal detectors to cover | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/low-lake-levels-leave-plenty-of-ground-for-metal-detectors-to-cover/article/3747384)

I can't speak to the whole of OKC being in a water crisis, but I can promise you that if this drought continues the 200,000 plus people who rely on water from Canton Lake will be in a water crisis very very soon.

http://i.imgur.com/w2gn57V.png

Some of you still aren't seeing the big picture. While this is a basic supply and demand problem, far too many are focusing on supply as the problem when the real problem is on the demand side. The bottom line is most of us are living a lifestyle (me included) that is beyond the means of mother nature to supply the resources for. Across the annual rainfall spectrum we are increasingly only having enough rain in years at the top end of the scale. Normal rainfall is no longer enough and when below annual rainfall years occur the dust hits the fan quickly. We have the same problem here in Florida - almost every year. At least we have one advantage in Florida - desalination.

Over the next 20 years hundreds of thousands of people will move to OKC. Where is the water to supply these people going to come from? Conservation alone isn't going to get us there. You can put all the low-flow shower heads on, flush on every 3rd trip to the bathroom, turn the water off while you brush your teeth, etc..., but none of that means crap vs. pouring 15,000 gallons of water on your yard every month. The next 250,000 people moving to OKC have to live on the same water supply we are struggling with today, in fact, to solve this problem we have to be using LESS water in 20 years than we are today.

And of course, having enough water to drink is only a small part of the problem. There are serious downstream environmental problems that occur when too much water is siphoned off upstream. Just to give you an example, the mighty Colorado River that created the Grand Canyon and fills huge lakes - goes dry 20 miles from the ocean. Billions of gallons of water that used to drain into the Gulf of California no longer make it there. The same thing is occurring with many rivers west of the Appalachian Mountains.

Over the next 20 years hundreds of thousands of people will move to OKC. Where is the water to supply these people going to come from?

The current plan is building a parallel pipeline to the Atoka pipeline, that will go on to Lake Sardis after that. I think the construction timeframe was around 2015-2016. Another lake similar to Draper's size will be created near it.

The current plan is building a parallel pipeline to the Atoka pipeline, that will go on to Lake Sardis after that. I think the construction timeframe was around 2015-2016. Another lake similar to Draper's size will be created near it.

And where is the water going to come from to fill this new lake? All the water is already accounted for. We can't make it rain more than it is already raining. Is the long-term plan to not allow a single river leaving Oklahoma to have water in it when it crosses the state line?

What river is leaving Oklahoma with too much water in it?

And where is the water going to come from to fill this new lake? All the water is already accounted for. We can't make it rain more than it is already raining. Is the long-term plan to not allow a single river leaving Oklahoma to have water in it when it crosses the state line?

The lake is not new it was completed in the eighties, with intentions to sell water to municipalities and industry to cover the construction cost, we would still be the first to get water from it. OKC purchased 90% of the water rights from the either the state or feds a few years ago.

The problem with Canton/Hefner water supply is here now. Not years in the future. Some experts say Hefner has about 20,000 a/ft available for use, and they suggest that will last until April. The Canton draw will be 30,000 a/ft. At least 30% (some say as high as 50%) will be lost to riverbed etc. It's a basic math problem, 20,000 a/ft will last a little over 2 months in the winter. 30,000 less 30% leaves 21,000 a/ft, about the same amount you have now to begin the summer. If it lasts about the same amount of time, Hefner water users may have a serious water problem mid to late summer. If we have a really wet spring, there may be no problems, but if we have more drought above Canton there will be no fill, and therefore, NO water. The earlier OKC takes water from Canton, the more dangerous the situation becomes. It is possible, by waiting, there will be rainfall, and fill Hefner enough to save the water in Canton. Hard to believe, but what's good for Canton Lake may be good for OKC too.

Some of you still aren't seeing the big picture. While this is a basic supply and demand problem, far too many are focusing on supply as the problem when the real problem is on the demand side. The bottom line is most of us are living a lifestyle (me included) that is beyond the means of mother nature to supply the resources for. Across the annual rainfall spectrum we are increasingly only having enough rain in years at the top end of the scale. Normal rainfall is no longer enough and when below annual rainfall years occur the dust hits the fan quickly. We have the same problem here in Florida - almost every year. At least we have one advantage in Florida - desalination.

Over the next 20 years hundreds of thousands of people will move to OKC. Where is the water to supply these people going to come from? Conservation alone isn't going to get us there. You can put all the low-flow shower heads on, flush on every 3rd trip to the bathroom, turn the water off while you brush your teeth, etc..., but none of that means crap vs. pouring 15,000 gallons of water on your yard every month. The next 250,000 people moving to OKC have to live on the same water supply we are struggling with today, in fact, to solve this problem we have to be using LESS water in 20 years than we are today.

And of course, having enough water to drink is only a small part of the problem. There are serious downstream environmental problems that occur when too much water is siphoned off upstream. Just to give you an example, the mighty Colorado River that created the Grand Canyon and fills huge lakes - goes dry 20 miles from the ocean. Billions of gallons of water that used to drain into the Gulf of California no longer make it there. The same thing is occurring with many rivers west of the Appalachian Mountains.Just curious. I understand how expensive this is, But what are the chances that a pipeline could be built from the ocean to Dallas, OKC, and other cities Semi-close to the ocean with water problems?

Just curious. I understand how expensive this is, But what are the chances that a pipeline could be built from the ocean to Dallas, OKC, and other cities Semi-close to the ocean with water problems?

That really is an option of last resort, desalination itself is pretty expensive compared to conventional techniques due to the power requirements even if you are next to the ocean. The section of the Keystone pipeline between Cushing and the ocean will cost around two billion and it is only 30 inches, we will need a bigger one even if the OKC was the only customer. The existing Atoka pipeline is 72 inches.

There are other possibilities. Kaw has some water available, and is closer than the ocean. OKC must work on the problem now. As they continue to grow, one little lake in the most arid part of the state cannot keep up with OKC's water demands, especially in these extreme conditions NW OK has had for the last few years.