Does anyone really need their sprinklers on after all that rain?

Nope. We got 2"+ in the area of the Southside I'm in. It flooded Lightning Creek... and it's concrete. Water flowing over the bridge in my neighborhood. A very sizable hole also opened up in my yard where OG&E had dug lines previously. NOT HAPPY.

Here's another one for you...failscaping. Meaning that ^ will never pass OKC landscaping code.
Xeriscaping in Oklahoma City would look completely different than Xeriscaping in Phoenix, or wherever that photo was taken; as much as the land around Oklahoma City differs from the land surrounding desert cities. The approach is to utilize native plants and those that thrive in the natural environment native to the area in which you are planting. The point is not only to save water but to ensure survival during all seasons with less human intervention. Some desert plants would not make it through Oklahoma's non-summer seasons. Here you would see much more in the way of ornamental and native grasses, wildflowers, hardy trees/shrubbery and the like.

I'm sorry, I've been out of the loop. A couple of pages back, people were mentioning that they thought the reason OKC got water from Canton was so that they would have a fuller lake for a movie being shot. What is all this about? I thought it was odd that they would release water from a place like Canton before all the May rain. I'm completely unfamiliar with filling the lake for a movie though.

It is called a conspiracy theory. You cannot predict rain like we have had. They released Canton when it was a smart move back when the decision was being made.

All the captain hindsights are out in fullforce now that we have been getting soaked here in OKC.

That is the jist of what you missed.

I'm sorry, I've been out of the loop. A couple of pages back, people were mentioning that they thought the reason OKC got water from Canton was so that they would have a fuller lake for a movie being shot. What is all this about? I thought it was odd that they would release water from a place like Canton before all the May rain. I'm completely unfamiliar with filling the lake for a movie though.

No question the water was brought here for OKC's general needs, not the movie. As far as the timing of the release, knowing the city had to be in the loop and in agreement months in advance of both the release and the movie filming, I think it's safe to say that was a consideration. I do not believe the city will admit that, short of someone prying records from them that show it was.

Does anyone really need their sprinklers on after all that rain?

I haven't had to water since sometime last week.

No question the water was brought here for OKC's general needs, not the movie. As far as the timing of the release, knowing the city had to be in the loop and in agreement months in advance of both the release and the movie filming, I think it's safe to say that was a consideration. I do not believe the city will admit that, short of someone prying records from them that show it was.

What movie are we even talking about? I'm way in the dark on all of this. I just clicked this thread to see if there was any news on how the levels are now.

Rudderless. Talked about here too: http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic-issues/33929-closing-lake-hefner-filming.html

Rudderless. Talked about here too: http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic-issues/33929-closing-lake-hefner-filming.html

They should rename that Movie "Okc Lakes Runneth over" Full to the brim.

Xeriscape can be very attractive, and there are many degrees of xeriscaping to match your own climate. Great gardens can be grown with smaller amounts of water than you think. Most people in western OK are farmers, have been farmers or come from farmers. Not many pet lawns here, if you can't eat it or sell it, no reason to water it.

Interesting, I went through NW OK a couple of days ago. A lot of green yards and watering going on.

Under normal conditions, the demand is not higher than the supply and ongoing water conservation efforts will temper that.

In my opinion, when the City has to implement watering restrictions that is a sign demand is exceeding supply. It seems oxymoronic to me that the City mandates large yards and then restricts the ability to water those large yard.

Is Canton Lake full again? Since it seems to be a de facto part of Lake Hefner perhaps watering restrictions should be in effect until it is. With the rain we've been having lately, pet lawn owners don't have to get all stressed out about their grass dying of thirst.

Maybe irrigation cisterns should be required on new construction. This would allow homeowners to capture their own rainwater and then use it at a later date to keep the grass green.

Canton Lake has not filled. We are at 1602.11. Our rainy season is ending. Your lakes are full, even if you wanted the water now, you would have no place to put it. We are going to lose 5 ft or so to evaporation. That would put us at 1597. Your storage ends at 1596.5. Even if the Corps allowed the draw, no water would arrive in OKC. You pay the riverbed first. Without rain, the fish will start dying soon. It will be a race to the bottom. Now that you have killed our lake, we're watching how you handle your own.

but . . . but . . . "our" lake is "your" lake . . . and "we" are watching it too.
(especially the me part of we. =)
Grass and Lawn Tax. (with a credit for cisterns and xeriscaping plus huge fines for watering the pavement).

Canton Lake has not filled. We are at 1602.11. Our rainy season is ending. Your lakes are full, even if you wanted the water now, you would have no place to put it. We are going to lose 5 ft or so to evaporation. That would put us at 1597. Your storage ends at 1596.5. Even if the Corps allowed the draw, no water would arrive in OKC. You pay the riverbed first. Without rain, the fish will start dying soon. It will be a race to the bottom. Now that you have killed our lake, we're watching how you handle your own.

Chances of rain for the next three days in the Northwest. We can all hope for a good 3 incher up there.

Thanks for your understanding RadicalModerate. I don't know what those dependent on Hefner will do. It appears we may be in a drought that will last for several years. I don't see how Canton can catch up, and yet those in power in OKC refuse to explain the possible severity of the situation to those residents.

They have predicted many rains. Few have fell in Canton's basin. I pray you are right.

Overholser is still 4 foot low. I wonder if it will fill up this year?

Overholser is still 4 foot low. I wonder if it will fill up this year?

Are you sure, I drove by there the other day and it looked full to the brim ???

They have predicted many rains. Few have fell in Canton's basin. I pray you are right.

If you don't mind reminding, what is considered 'full' for Canton?

Are you sure, I drove by there the other day and it looked full to the brim ???

Yes, I'm sure. I was out there this weekend too. I live a couple of blocks away and kayak out there all the time. The canal is pretty full. The lake isn't.

The high for the lake in 2007 was 1243.4

Currently it's 1239.28

USGS Current Conditions for USGS 07240500 Lake Overholser near Oklahoma City, OK (http://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?07240500)

If you don't mind reminding, what is considered 'full' for Canton?

1615.40. We are 1602.8.

Yes, I'm sure. I was out there this weekend too. I live a couple of blocks away and kayak out there all the time. The canal is pretty full. The lake isn't.

The high for the lake in 2007 was 1243.4

Currently it's 1239.28

USGS Current Conditions for USGS 07240500 Lake Overholser near Oklahoma City, OK (http://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?07240500)

I kind of wonder what 'full' is for the lake, are they not filling it anymore ? I saw the flow on Hwy 4 North of Yukon and it was running good on Sunday. They are either sending it to Hefner or letting it go on down the river then ???

Yes, I'm sure. I was out there this weekend too. I live a couple of blocks away and kayak out there all the time. The canal is pretty full. The lake isn't.

The high for the lake in 2007 was 1243.4

Currently it's 1239.28

USGS Current Conditions for USGS 07240500 Lake Overholser near Oklahoma City, OK (http://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?07240500)

Overholser is as full as the city wants it. The 2007 level was that of a deadly flood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCi6FyapX8c

Overholser is as full as the city wants it.

That may be. Do you think they will flow any additional water downstream and try to keep it where it is now, at 1238?

It was at 1240.12 in November of 2011, the high of the last official 12 month report period. Still about two feet more than now and two feet less than 2007.
http://wdr.water.usgs.gov/wy2012/pdfs/07240500.2012.pdf

Thank you Buffalo Bill. That was tropical storm Erin, an inland hurricane. News media in choppers could not discern the North Canadian River from other flood waters. I have heard many quote the 2007 level as kind of a "normal" number. OKC must leave space for a toad strangler between Canton and OKC. So, they will be letting water go by. On the other hand, those at Eufaula should be happy.

From the 2012 report linked above:

EXTREMES FOR CURRENT YEAR.--Maximum contents, 13,830 acre-ft, Nov. 10, (2011) elevation 1240.12 ft.; minimum, 2,190 acre-ft, Oct. 07, elevation, 1231.08 ft.

Was that a deadly tropical storm and flood?

From the 2012 report linked above:

EXTREMES FOR CURRENT YEAR.--Maximum contents, 13,830 acre-ft, Nov. 10, (2011) elevation 1240.12 ft.; minimum, 2,190 acre-ft, Oct. 07, elevation, 1231.08 ft.

Was that a deadly tropical storm and flood?

That was just after a draw from Canton Lake. Canton Lake water is being released to replenish lakes in Oklahoma City | News OK (http://newsok.com/canton-lake-water-is-being-released-to-replenish-lakes-in-oklahoma-city/article/3612754)

That was just after a draw from Canton Lake. Canton Lake water is being released to replenish lakes in Oklahoma City | News OK (http://newsok.com/canton-lake-water-is-being-released-to-replenish-lakes-in-oklahoma-city/article/3612754)

So it would seem to me if they took a planned draw in 2011 and raised the level to two more feet than it is now, it's not full now.

I took a break and dropped by the dam a minute ago. They aren't flowing water out of the canal or the lake. (They can do either or both.) The gates on the lake side of the dam are set about 4 feet above the lake level. The canal water level is higher, thus there is only maybe a couple of feet to the top of the gates on that side.

I get they don't want it to be full to the brim so every rain washes over but "full to the brim" is not a correct statement.

So it would seem to me if they took a planned draw in 2011 and raised the level to two more feet than it is now, it's not full now.

I took a break and dropped by the dam a minute ago. They aren't flowing water out of the canal or the lake. (They can do either or both.) The gates on the lake side of the dam are set about 4 feet above the lake level. The canal water level is higher, thus there is only maybe a couple of feet to the top of the gates on that side.

I get they don't want it to be full to the brim so every rain washes over but "full to the brim" is not a correct statement.

Someone else said full to the brim. It doesn't change what is in Canton.

Eufaula is very full. There is basically no beaches left. Everything east of OKC should be spilling over. Above normal rains in a relatively short period of time.

Eufaula is very full. There is basically no beaches left. Everything east of OKC should be spilling over. Above normal rains in a relatively short period of time.

Thank dog!

Thank dog!

No help for Canton or Hefner users. But, you go ahead and thank that dog. See where it gets you.

No help for Canton or Hefner users. But, you go ahead and thank that dog. See where it gets you.

Some of us are happy others across the state besides ourselves have rainfall and an end to the drought where it seems Cantonites only care about themselves. Pity.

Tornado warning on that cell in the pandhandle. Drifting north.


EDIT: Thought I was in weather thread.... lol

Pity? If OKCites had cared about anybody else, we wouldn't have this problem. Canton people are in OKC now working on tornado damage. When the tornado hit Canton, where were you.

Pity? If OKCites had cared about anybody else, we wouldn't have this problem. Canton people are in OKC now working on tornado damage. When the tornado hit Canton, where were you.

I notice you didn't say "I, La W. am in OKC working on Tornado damage." Where are you?


Are you not happy most of the state is getting rain and the drought is ending?

I notice you didn't say "I, La W. am in OKC working on Tornado damage." Where are you?


Are you not happy most of the state is getting rain and the drought is ending?

I have friends and family there working and I have donated money. I'm sure you did the same?

I am happy some of the state is getting rain, but the drought is has not ended here. OKC's water demands have not lessened, but rather have continued to grow. Because some of the drought threat is lessened in the east, many will not see a need to conserve. Unless we get a lot of rain above Canton, those dependent on Hefner will have great difficulties.

Same AND have given my own time to help homeowners in Moore dig through the rubble. It's not the first time I've worked disasters that didn't directly affect me either.

I read everything else you said to be about Canton. You would like us outside of Canton to not have enough water, and thus we would learn to conserve and thereby help Canton. (Faulty reasoning BTW) You don't care about the difficulties those dependent on Hefner have, or anyone else downstream has. That's clear. You care about Canton.

I'll remind myself next time to not take what you say and apply it as if others from Canton said it. While I know you do speak for a lot of Cantonites, you don't speak for all of them. I'm sure many would shudder at the thought.

Same AND have given my own time to help homeowners in Moore dig through the rubble. It's not the first time I've worked disasters either.

You would like us outside of Canton to not have enough water, and thus we would learn to conserve.



You are so completely wrong. I have no desire to personally teach you to conserve. I have been trying for months to tell you, there is no more water here. You need to conserve during a drought so you can get thru it, not us, YOU. I would prefer we all have plenty of water including YOU! Canton's water is gone, we cannot get it back for you. I've explained the situation we all face. There is a drought, you have expanded your demands. We simply do not have enough water to continue this way. You must find other sources to supplement your supply. It doesn't matter what Canton wants, our situation is out of anyone's hands. You have control of your situation, if you don't change, at least until the drought is over in western OK, you will be in the same situation. No water.

Pity? If OKCites had cared about anybody else, we wouldn't have this problem. Canton people are in OKC now working on tornado damage. When the tornado hit Canton, where were you.

just go away, whats done is done. no amount of you complaining will change contracts that have been in place for decades. you have plenty of drinking water and if you want recreation drive somewhere like the rest of us.

can we please ban this guy, this is worse than the train thread.

He's annoying, sure. And we've covered several times, we anticipate lots of growth in the next 50 years. We have rights from Sardis Lake, the Kiamichi River, Hugo Lake, McGee Creek and Canton. We have a massive pipeline project planned and are building an additional storage lake in SE OKC in addition to lots more. I've worked with local town government in a professional capacity. I can tell you that your engineers and such are very competent and know what they're doing. However, when it comes to projects of massive scales such as OKC pipelines, they haven't got a freaking clue.

-uPfw-VYNhU#!

Don't drink the kool aid. We're fine. Lake Canton is one of our emergency supplies. We probably didn't need it in retrospect, but hindsight is 20/20. We are not in some sort of existential crisis or any of that nonsense some of the folks in this thread are suggesting exists.

And don't ban him, but really at this point, /thread. Everything that needs to be said has been said. I don't think we need up to the minute reports on Lake Canton and its fish. For those who do:

Let me google that for you (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Lake+Canton+Water+Level)

He's

Pretty sure it's she...

Pretty sure it's she...

I tend not to focus on labels.

:)

Very bad form mkjeeves. Thank you admin.

Wut? You aren't a woman and you take offense I suggested people calling you a "guy" and "he" might be wrong?

I'm sure the admin will indeed let me know when I am in bad form. They don't seem too bashful.

Yeah. I agree. No need to ban him. There's still some things he might learn if he hangs around.

I have no fear of arguments or harsh words. I'm assuming the choice of pronouns was generic. Maybe you removed it, and I gave the admin credit.

I have no fear of arguments or harsh words. I'm assuming the choice of pronouns was generic. Maybe you removed it, and I gave the admin credit.


I have no idea what you are talking about. Nothing has been removed I wrote by me or by anyone else. Seems like underhanded mudslinging bs on your part to me.

Topic?

To me all of this is simply about good stewardship of a precious, life-sustaining, resource. I abhor the idea of wasting drinkable water especially in a drought period during general global warming (no matter what the cause) and no matter what the weather happens to be doing during a few weeks in May. Oh: And when I say "life-sustaining" I'm not referring to any concern about Fescue or any other pet lawn pedigree.

You are so completely wrong. I have no desire to personally teach you to conserve. I have been trying for months to tell you, there is no more water here. You need to conserve during a drought so you can get thru it, not us, YOU. I would prefer we all have plenty of water including YOU! Canton's water is gone, we cannot get it back for you. I've explained the situation we all face. There is a drought, you have expanded your demands. We simply do not have enough water to continue this way. You must find other sources to supplement your supply. It doesn't matter what Canton wants, our situation is out of anyone's hands. You have control of your situation, if you don't change, at least until the drought is over in western OK, you will be in the same situation. No water.

Well, it seems that you very much are trying to teach us to conserve.... given the second bolded statement... and speaking of THAT statement. Please enlighten us as to why it is OKC that needs to conserve while the people of Canton somehow don't?

And, let's not forget the original purpose of Canton Lake in the first place. The dam and lake were built for the purpose of flood control. Any irrigation and/or recreational benefits created by having the lake are strictly ancillary in nature and are far from something required to be provided to you or any other residents in the area. By all accounts OKC is helping with the flood control by taking some of the lake's water. Don't worry... Because of what we do here in the metro, you and your family are safe from the floods. You're welcome.

Fact: Lake Hefner was painfully low.
Fact: OKC drew water from Canton Lake to bring Lake Hefner back to an acceptable level.
Fact: OKC has every legal right to do so.
Fact: If Canton Lake isn't given a chance to serve as a proper reservoir for OKC, by returning to pre-draw levels, OKC will be like an unflushable toilet.
Fact: If Canton's neighbors in OKC don't change their mindset about wasting water, OKC will be up a dry, stinking, creek without a paddle.

Obvious Tunnel-Visioned Conclusion: Don't worry about it. We can suck every lake in the state dry if we want to. It is our right. (even if wrong).

Fact: We don't take water from Canton lake every year.

Fact: Sometimes they have so much water they have to send it down to us even if we don't want it.

(Or should I say, we send it down to ourselves, since the people in OKC are more in number and pay off the same federal tax schedule as the people in Canton. Thus, the empty parts of the lake are ours as much as they are the residents of Canton. And the water is all ours.)

Agreed. Yet, since we cannot control the amount of rainfall that may or may not fall upon the just and the unjust no matter who or where they may be (especially during a global warming drought period) wouldn't it be wise not to waste water? (like for . . . oh, i dunno . . . maintaining decorative lawns?)

btw: is the "they" referred to in your previous post The Army Corps of Engineers or The Cantonites (regarding flooding USOKC) with excess water?

"They" know who they are, even if we don't!

I know that the folks in the area of Canton are my neighbors. I have no axe to grind one way or the other on that. I have no feeling one way or the other on the fishing/other concessionaires by the artificially created Canton Lake who may be suffering an economic hardship right now because of We OKCityans dragging down their lake level. All I'm saying is that All of US need to be very aware of how valuable water is and act accordingly (in the context of climate change and the vagaries of nature).

(and i'm about as far from being one of those EnvironMentalNut Greensters [<warning: invented word] as one can be. =)

edited to add: driving my wife to a dr. appt. this morning, westbound on hefner rd. below our recently restored water supply, i noticed a tractor-trailer rig, eastbound up there on the two-lane bicycle/jogger/"road" above me. i thought that was "dam" unusual. (my wife suggested that he probably made a wrong turn. i had to agree. common sense dictated it. =)

edited to add: driving my wife to a dr. appt. this morning, westbound on hefner rd. below our recently restored water supply, i noticed a tractor-trailer rig, eastbound up there on the two-lane bicycle/jogger/"road" above me. i thought that was "dam" unusual. (my wife suggested that he probably made a wrong turn. i had to agree. common sense dictated it. =)

Why is that dam truck driving on the dam road? Wrong turn? Eh, sure... that theory holds water.

I know it is hard for some to believe, but we are no longer talking about concessions and businesses in Canton, as you say, only some in OKC care anyway.

I am talking about the coming problems for those totally dependent on Hefner water. The illusion is water is again plentiful for OKC, and it is for most, but for some, the danger is as real today as it was a few weeks ago.

Why is that dam truck driving on the dam road? Wrong turn? Eh, sure... that theory holds water.
and i think i read something about grazing goats on the facade of the damn dam KEEPING DOWN THE GRASS . . .
(undermining the foundation is more like it)
(good observational humor, Wichita, btw. in case you missed my appreciation . . . )

Yet, seriously . . .
I have to say that had I chosen to fight [the] law I would have, but [the] law would still have won/prevailed.
(refer to most recent post, by law, above)

"the illusion of free [and unlimited] water" nails it.
specifically the "illusion" part.

Remember?:
I am talking about the coming problems for those totally dependent on Hefner water. The illusion is water is again plentiful for OKC, and it is for most, but for some, the danger is as real today as it was a few weeks ago.

so . . . "if all of it is OUR water" . . . then why does the original thread title imply that OUR/OKC has to buy it?

Man, if we get anymore rain, the dam might turn into a spillway...lol.