I was intrigued by Lake Meredith on the graph, above, so I looked it up.

No sailboats there . . .
http://ama-cdn.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/superphoto/editorial/images/images/amarillo/mdControlled/cms/2010/12/19/758692638.jpg

I was intrigued by Lake Meredith on the graph, above, so I looked it up.

No sailboats there . . .
http://ama-cdn.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/superphoto/editorial/images/images/amarillo/mdControlled/cms/2010/12/19/758692638.jpg

Kinda reminds me of another lake not so far from Canton...Lake Optima

Optima Lake is a reservoir in Texas County, Oklahoma. The lake is located near the towns of Hardesty and Guymon in the Oklahoma Panhandle.

The earthen Optima Lake Dam (National ID # OK20510) was constructed in 1978 by the United States Army Corps of Engineers, with a height of 120 feet, and a length at its crest of 16,875 feet.[1] Although designed to contain a maximum of 618,500 acre-feet, the lake has never reached more than 5 percent of its design capacity,[2] and now is effectively empty.

Rapid declines in streamflow (related to large-scale pumping from the High Plains Aquifer) coincided with the completion of dam construction[2] to make this lake a dramatic example of unanticipated environmental impacts.

The US Army Corps of Engineers states (emphasis added):

Visitors should be aware that the lake's level can be very low. Depending on rainfall and evaporation rates, the lake may offer no water-based recreation and may not be suitable for swimming, fishing, boating or other activities.[3]

Lake camping facilities and buildings have been dismantled for public safety by the Corps of Engineers as of October 2012.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optima_Lake

I camped there one night a decade ago.

Well . . . looking ("Optimastically") on the bright side, at least the lawns are still green in Amarillo.

Well . . . looking ("Optimastically") on the bright side, at least the lawns are still green in Amarillo.

as they are for many of the western Oklahoma and Texas Canton Lake visitors' lawns and lands, if not City of Canton residents' too.

Yep, lot of boats out. There's nothing on the online OKC Boat Club calender for today. The other docks and ramps are closed for filming the movie "Rudderless". I watched a chopper take off from the production area this afternoon with a camera person hanging out of the side of it. Could be the boats are related to the filming...or not, just a nice windy day on the lake.

I do wonder if an City of OKC commitment to the film schedule had anything to do with not waiting until the end of spring to release water. (Even though it was going to happen either way. Overholser isn't full and Hefner may still be down.)

I was out there walking with my wife Saturday morning and saw a ton of boats and then more on Sunday. My wife's supervisor received an e-mail for an open casting call out on Lake Hefner Friday for the movie. They wouldn't be paid, but would be provided with free food. They were asking for just background people (people walking, talking, running and biking). The part of the movie out on the lake would be shooting today and tomorrow. I assume they would get everything in place today and actually shoot footage tomorrow. We are going to go out walking by the lake tonight and I will let the board know if I see anything.

pics
Let's wait until July and juxtapose with pics of dead fish washing ashore at Lake Canton- it'd be picturesque.

I would hope OKCWT did not risk Canton water just to make a movie. Did you notice the new water plan? I understand OKC has plenty, nothing to worry about, but you might want to take a look.

City of Oklahoma City (http://www.okc.gov/watering/)

Okc decided to be conservative does mean that we don't have plenty of water

I think the folks in Canton might request a clearer definition of the concept of "we".

I think the folks in Canton might request a clearer definition of the concept of "we".

Oklahoma city

I thought that was probably what you meant.
Yet . . . somehow . . . isn't that just a bit . . . provincially elitist?
When I think "We" I think ALL Oklahomans.
Even panhandle dwellers.

One of the local news channels ran a story about properties with high water usage rates in OKC last week. There were two properties in Gallardia that used over 1 million gallons of water last year. I was outraged. After a certain number of gallons OKC should start charging more for water, at least enough to make people like that feel it in their pocketbook and reduce their usage.:mad:

Thank you. I too am outraged. (no. really.)
I think that your idea of a sliding scale for water usage makes too much sense to ever be implemented.
And really, really, "rich" people don't care about the costs anyway. =)

D'ya think deannexing Gaillardia and making it part of Texas instead of "We" would be too extreme?
(probably . . . right now it's raining on the just and the unjust. =)
(wanna bet that someone has their pet lawn sprinklers on to prove a point? =)

I think the folks in Canton might request a clearer definition of the concept of "we".

Who even cares about Canton? It has a population smaller than many of our grade schools.

Who even cares about Canton? It has a population smaller than many of our grade schools.

I care about my neighbors and fellow Oklahomans. That includes Canton -- the lake and the citizenry around it. If we're voting, I care.

I thought that was probably what you meant.
Yet . . . somehow . . . isn't that just a bit . . . provincially elitist?
When I think "We" I think ALL Oklahomans.
Even panhandle dwellers.

OKC WUT has done a great job protecting and acquiring water assets .. not our fault that canton hasn't done the same

OKC WUT has done a great job protecting and acquiring water assets .. not our fault that canton hasn't done the same

And yet, Canton (the city) has done that. The citizenry around Canton Lake have sufficient water to live just fine. On the other hand, there are many there who have pinned their financial livelihood to the level of the lake. That's OK, too, so long as you know the level of the lake could fluctuate through both natural and man-made events. As Midtowner has argued many times, OKC's decision to withdraw water from Canton Lake was completely within the bounds of the agreement. As Law and MarkAFuqua (spelling?) have argued, it's a shame that this decision impacted some businesses poorly.

You are mistaken about the main points of our argument. Yes, businesses were and are impacted, not just some but all. And not just businesses, sales taxes, property taxes, etc, and not just Canton, Blaine county and others. Unless we get major rains upstream, Canton's fate has been determined, so it is no longer about us. You can grinch and complain about us, but it's all about you now.

The important part of our argument was about the water, and the danger to Hefner users. Without rain, you have all the water you can get from Canton. We are at 1602. with a minimum of 5 ft evaporation this summer, we would be at 1597. Your lease is only the conservation pool 1596.5 and above. Less than a foot of water will not get to OKC. The loss to the riverbed is paid first.

You are mistaken about the main points of our argument. Yes, businesses were and are impacted, not just some but all. And not just businesses, sales taxes, property taxes, etc, and not just Canton, Blaine county and others. Unless we get major rains upstream, Canton's fate has been determined, so it is no longer about us. You can grinch and complain about us, but it's all about you now.

The important part of our argument was about the water, and the danger to Hefner users. Without rain, you have all the water you can get from Canton. We are at 1602. with a minimum of 5 ft evaporation this summer, we would be at 1597. Your lease is only the conservation pool 1596.5 and above. Less than a foot of water will not get to OKC. The loss to the riverbed is paid first.

I don't believe I am mistaken in my statement that the people around Canton are not reliant upon the lake for their water for personal uses (drinking, bathing, etc.).
I don't believe I am mistaken in my statement that businesses (and other entities reliant upon those business, per your post here) have tied their fortunes to a lake whose water quantity is beyond their control.
I believe you are mistaken to say that Canton's fate has been determined. Precipitation and seepage can and very likely will allow Canton to refill, although not as fast as you would like. I'm not grinching or complaining about you. In fact, if you were to review every post I've made on this thread, you would see that this condensation of my viewpoint is accurate: Water is very precious in Oklahoma and should not be wasted. I don't think I've ever come out on one side or the other of whether or not the early spring draw should have been made. Further, it's not about me. I get my water from a well and don't use any of the lakes on the NW side of OKC.
I also believe you are mistaken to say that the important part of your argument was about danger to Hefner users. Even with his hyperbole, regional myopia and blind allegiance to OKC WUT, BoulderSooner is accurate to say that OKC water resource system is in good shape for the immediate future and, pending resolution of other conflicts and barring a major catastrophic natural event, for the long term as well.

Currently the town of Canton's water problems are only mechanical. Most small towns have the same problems, and they are unrelated to the Lake except the revenues generated by lake visitors. When I spoke of Canton's fate, I meant the business situation.

I only spoke of dangers to Hefner users. Not all of OKC.

You are mistaken about the main points of our argument . . . Unless we get major rains upstream, Canton's fate has been determined, so it is no longer about us. You can grinch and complain about us, but it's all about you now.

I guess the "main" point of "my" argument (as compared to "our" or "their" argument) is that as "Canton" goes, so goes "Oklahoma City" (a.k.a. US, or WE).
Serious and reasonable water usage and conservation measures need to begin right now.
Or else it ALL becomes a "moot"/"academic" point.

I guess the "main" point of "my" argument (as compared to "our" or "their" argument) is that as "Canton" goes, so goes "Oklahoma City" (a.k.a. US, or WE).
Serious and reasonable water usage and conservation measures need to begin right now.
Or else it ALL becomes a "moot"/"academic" point.

Most of us "here" have farming friends, so the drought is not new to us. We have also learned more about water in OK and TX, NM and how the entire water system works than we ever wanted to know.

Thanks on behalf of all Them who thirst (for knowledge . . . adventure . . . anything not involving actual water).

On the other hand, there are many there who have pinned their financial livelihood to the level of the lake.

And just how smart is it to build your business around a resources which could literally dry up because someone else wants it to?

And just how smart is it to build your business around a resources which could literally dry up because someone else wants it to?

Lol. Are you talking about the people dependent on Hefner?

An older post from the Canton Lake Association web page:


Much of the watershed area for the North Canadian River is over the Ogallala Aquifer. Since the time of completion of Canton Lake, the Ogallala Aquifer has dropped some 10 feet in areas proximal to Canton, to as much as 40 feet in area of far western Oklahoma and the Oklahoma Panhandle. In northeast New Mexico, the originating point of the North Canadian River, there is no longer a measurable saturated thickness of the Ogallala Aquifer. The cause and effect comes down to this. Dry springs, dry creeks, and a dry Beaver River result in drastically reduced water flow into Canton Lake.


Canton Lake Association: A good read and some strong points by John Sprunger (http://cantonlakeassn.blogspot.com/2013/02/a-good-read-and-some-strong-points-by.html)

I wonder when our friends in NW Oklahoma will admit to failing at conserving water, pumping the ground dry, contributing to low lake levels and the resulting damage to their economy? Will they do that when there's no more inflow, Canton is like Lake Optima, there's no water for OKC and we're no longer in the picture or will all their problems still be OKC's fault?

Lol. Are you talking about the people dependent on Hefner?

Whozat?

If I was a business owner in Canton that depended on the Lake to survive I think I would be looking for a way out. I don't see Canton Lake surviving long term. The farmers in the NW have pretty much drained the water supply. NW OKC needs to find a better source to fill Hefner because Canton Lake appears to be dying a slow death.

If I was a business owner in Canton that depended on the Lake to survive I think I would be looking for a way out. I don't see Canton Lake surviving long term. The farmers in the NW have pretty much drained the water supply. NW OKC needs to find a better source to fill Hefner because Canton Lake appears to be dying a slow death.

This. The simple reality is that OKC has outgrown its water supply in most years. Some people say 'no problem' just build another lake. Of course, we know that won't work because we can't keep two lakes full, how would we ever keep 3 lakes full.

An older post from the Canton Lake Association web page:

Much of the watershed area for the North Canadian River is over the Ogallala Aquifer. Since the time of completion of Canton Lake, the Ogallala Aquifer has dropped some 10 feet in areas proximal to Canton, to as much as 40 feet in area of far western Oklahoma and the Oklahoma Panhandle. In northeast New Mexico, the originating point of the North Canadian River, there is no longer a measurable saturated thickness of the Ogallala Aquifer. The cause and effect comes down to this. Dry springs, dry creeks, and a dry Beaver River result in drastically reduced water flow into Canton Lake.


Canton Lake Association: A good read and some strong points by John Sprunger (http://cantonlakeassn.blogspot.com/2013/02/a-good-read-and-some-strong-points-by.html)

I wonder when our friends in NW Oklahoma will admit to failing at conserving water, pumping the ground dry, contributing to low lake levels and the resulting damage to their economy? Will they do that when there's no more inflow, Canton is like Lake Optima, there's no water for OKC and we're no longer in the picture or will all their problems still be OKC's fault?
Per Wikipedia

[The Ogallala Aquifer] covers an area of approximately 174,000 mi² (450,000 km²) in portions of the eight states of South Dakota, Nebraska, Wyoming, Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Texas
I strongly doubt it's accurate or equitable to say our friends in NW Oklahoma have failed at water conservation based on the level of the Ogallala Aquifer.

Right. Just like everyone in all those other states who live on well water will say it wasn't them who did it.


You suffered from reading comprehension failure too. Key word missed, I said "contributing".

Right. Just like everyone in all those other states who live on well water will say it wasn't them who did it.

You suffered from reading comprehension failure too. Key word missed, I said "contributing".

You suffered from the failure of making a bad assumption, unless you've done a study to say that our friends in NW Oklahoma DON'T conserve water.

You suffered from the failure of making a bad assumption, unless you've done a study to say that our friends in NW Oklahoma DON'T conserve water.

Sure thing. When the shoe fits in regard to wasting it. (One has to be an OKC resident for it to be given that you are a water waster.)

But just using it at all in the NW part of the state seems to be contributing to their own demise. Will even the conservative users own up to that?

I wonder why they don't ration water in Canton like some residents of Canton have suggested we do in OKC? I guess that's a do as we say, not as we do kind of thing.

Sure thing. When the shoe fits. (One has to be an OKC resident for it to be given that you are a water waster.) I wonder why they don't ration water in Canton like some residents of Canton have suggested we do in OKC? I guess that's a do as we say, not as we do kind of thing.

Friend, it's not a case of us versus them (or shouldn't be). Maybe they are rationing there. Maybe they charge more and therefore induce self-rationing. Maybe they all use well-water. I don't know. All I know is that your statement:

I wonder when our friends in NW Oklahoma will admit to failing at conserving water, pumping the ground dry, contributing to low lake levels and the resulting damage to their economy?
(which I did not have any problem comprehending) was somewhat incendiary in saying that they have failed at water conservation. I would say that they may have failed at water conservation, but so have most if not all users that draw water from the Ogallala Aquifer. I seriously doubt that very many people realize the dire situation we could face in the future regarding fresh water availability. You're right to hope that they conserve water, but we should be hoping that all of us are using water intelligently.
It's a little bit pie-in-the-sky (OK, a LOT), but I think we should consider working with the seafront areas of the U.S. to deal with rising ocean levels to build desalinization plants and pipe fresh water somehow to the Ogallala Aquifer (and others). Horribly expensive in monetary cost and other resources, but might be worth it, some day.

A good start would be to remove all of the red cedars along the banks of the rivers......they are sucking the ground dry.

This. The simple reality is that OKC has outgrown its water supply in most years. Some people say 'no problem' just build another lake. Of course, we know that won't work because we can't keep two lakes full, how would we ever keep 3 lakes full.

Pump more from SE Oklahoma and this is fairly easily accomplished. Also, this drought won't last forever. Stanley Draper is set for a major expansion some time in the not so distant future according to some of the long-term planning I've seen.

Truth be told, we'er just fine and better unless we have a major monkey wrench thrown into the plan like the SE tribes being awarded ALL of the water (which is really unlikely).

Thank God for the sake of SE Oklahoma the Tribes had the $ this time to fight the resource grab. Sorry for Canton- but hey the important thing is Hefner looked good for the movie shoot. Big league city on the rise, Hollywood East, don't mess with the momentum.

Thank God for the sake of SE Oklahoma the Tribes had the $ this time to fight the resource grab. Sorry for Canton- but hey the important thing is Hefner looked good for the movie shoot. Big league city on the rise, Hollywood East, don't mess with the momentum.

You got that right!

I think I will start wearing sunglasses and sandals.Gotta keep up with our Hollywooders.

Pump more from SE Oklahoma and this is fairly easily accomplished. Also, this drought won't last forever. Stanley Draper is set for a major expansion some time in the not so distant future according to some of the long-term planning I've seen.

Truth be told, we'er just fine and better unless we have a major monkey wrench thrown into the plan like the SE tribes being awarded ALL of the water (which is really unlikely).

Just to double check the difference between an aquifer and a lake, I went here.
Aquifer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer)
I think the definition of "aquitard" should be expanded to include those who bemoan global warming/climate change and continue to water their pet lawns.

Just to double check the difference between an aquifer and a lake, I went here.
Aquifer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer)
I think the definition of "aquitard" should be expanded to include those who bemoan global warming/climate change and continue to water their pet lawns.So because I water my "pet lawn", I would qualify as a "aquitard"? Made up words that don't exist, huh? Interesting.

From the above article on aquifers. The current--limited--definition of aquitard):
"[Related terms include] aquitard, which is a bed of low permeability along an aquifer."

All words were "made up words" at some point, yet "pet" and "lawn" have existed for a long time.
An unlimited, drinkable (potable) water supply on the other hand . . .

Another made up word that didn't always exist: Xeriscaping.

http://urbangardencasual.com/wp-content/uploads/xeriscape_landscape.jpg

Xeriscape can be very attractive, and there are many degrees of xeriscaping to match your own climate. Great gardens can be grown with smaller amounts of water than you think. Most people in western OK are farmers, have been farmers or come from farmers. Not many pet lawns here, if you can't eat it or sell it, no reason to water it.

A good start would be to remove all of the red cedars along the banks of the rivers......they are sucking the ground dry.

An excellent suggestion! (please do not allow the following words to imply that I was j/king in regard to its veracity).
I recently watched a show about some guy--maybe in Ada?/probably on PBS--who makes works of art from these pesky trees. Many of them functional as well as aesthetic (another "made up word" =).

Here's a suggestion that just occurred to me: All cast iron kitchen and dinnerware.
Why? No need to "waste" (under-utilize) water washing skillets or dishes!
They can all be cleaned and sterilized using fire/heat!
(perhaps even fire/heat provided by burning those water-vampyre [another m.u.w.] red cedars? =)

Here's a suggestion that occurred to me at least a couple of years ago, long after I invented the phrase "pet lawns":
A Grass Tax. (this will also help offset other things involving fossil fuels/carbon footprints etc.)

Xeriscape can be very attractive, and there are many degrees of xeriscaping to match your own climate. Great gardens can be grown with smaller amounts of water than you think. Most people in western OK are farmers, have been farmers or come from farmers. Not many pet lawns here, if you can't eat it or sell it, no reason to water it.

Dang. "i" wasn't sure if "we" agreed on "any"thing . . . "neighbor" . . . =)

Potable (water) is an interesting ("made up") word:
(Here's why =):
If you pronounce it "pot (as in a clay 'pot'/)"-able" (with a "short" o) . . .
it implies that it is worth being put in a pot and consumed later, hopefully by people.

If you pronounce it "pot (as in 'pot'ential/)-able" (with a "long" o) . . .
it implies the capability of being moved place to place,
(e.g. the water that used to be "stored" in Canton Lake.)

Dang. "i" wasn't sure if "we" agreed on "any"thing . . . "neighbor" . . . =)

Potable (water) is an interesting ("made up") word:
(Here's why =):
If you pronounce it "pot (as in a clay 'pot'/)"-able" (with a "short" o) . . .
it implies that it is worth being put in a pot and consumed later, hopefully by people.

If you pronounce it "pot (as in 'pot'ential/)-able" (with a "long" o) . . .
it implies the capability of being moved place to place,
(e.g. the water that used to be "stored" in Canton Lake.)

So what words do you use that were not made up at some point? it predates modern english and was an alteration from a latin word meaning 'to drink'

From the above article on aquifers. The current--limited--definition of aquitard):
"[Related terms include] aquitard, which is a bed of low permeability along an aquifer."

All words were "made up words" at some point, yet "pet" and "lawn" have existed for a long time.
An unlimited, drinkable (potable) water supply on the other hand . . .

Another made up word that didn't always exist: Xeriscaping.

http://urbangardencasual.com/wp-content/uploads/xeriscape_landscape.jpgTake two words that have existed for a long time and put them together to form a word(s) in relation with each other doesn't form an entirely new word in general. Forgive me and pet lawn, if you will. . .

So what words do you use that were not made up at some point? it predates modern english and was an alteration from a latin word meaning 'to drink'

That's sort of what I was saying in the middle of Post 884.

btw: the lawn sprinklers around the Love's compound on Penn were going full blast right before the storms last night.

Well it looks like all city lakes are full now.

Well it looks like all city lakes are full now.

Overholser's most recent highest point was 1243.4 in 2007. The USGS gauge says 1137.75 now. 4+ feet to go... USGS Current Conditions for USGS 07240500 Lake Overholser near Oklahoma City, OK (http://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?07240500)

(I didn't check any of the others.)

So the lakes are full but with demand higher than supply how long will it be until they are empty again?

From the above article on aquifers. The current--limited--definition of aquitard):
"[Related terms include] aquitard, which is a bed of low permeability along an aquifer."

All words were "made up words" at some point, yet "pet" and "lawn" have existed for a long time.
An unlimited, drinkable (potable) water supply on the other hand . . .

Another made up word that didn't always exist: Xeriscaping.

http://urbangardencasual.com/wp-content/uploads/xeriscape_landscape.jpg

Here's another one for you...failscaping. Meaning that ^ will never pass OKC landscaping code.

Here's another one for you...failscaping. Meaning that ^ will never pass OKC landscaping code.

Obviously OKC "landscaping code[s]" need to be re-invented to conform to changing realities.
We could start with a Grass Tax. (or a Lawn Levy)

And for all the "lush green (not in the environmental sense)" addicts there is this:
Go Green Synthetic Grass, 5' x 10': Gardening & Lawn Care : Walmart.com (http://www.walmart.com/ip/20934625?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227000000000&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=21486607510&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem)

Besides all of the other benefits associated with this product, note that the specifications say that it doesn't require a battery!

If you don't like Walmart, there are probably other suppliers.

A good start would be to remove all of the red cedars along the banks of the rivers......they are sucking the ground dry.

That would be a good place to start…!
The prairie use to burn every few years….
More controlled burns would help restore natures balance.

Red Cedars do dry out the pasture, but they have little to nothing to do with the rivers. Salt cedar (Tamarisk) are a non-native (unlike red-cedars - which are native and were controled by fire until we started controling fires) invasive species that have been rapidly spreading on Oklahoma rivers in the last 30 years. They are a major drain on the native streams in the western part of the State. Because they inhabit the stream edges, they are hard to burn (Texas A&M Extension - Brushbuster: How to Put a Halt to Salt Cedar ).

Seems that did not create a link, lets try this one about the Salt Cedar Invasive Species: Plants - Saltcedar (Tamarix spp.) (http://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/plants/saltcedar.shtml)

Seems that did not create a link, lets try this one about the Salt Cedar Invasive Species: Plants - Saltcedar (Tamarix spp.) (http://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/plants/saltcedar.shtml)

We would be happy to be rid of both. Cedars and Tamarix. We spend alots of $$$ to be rid of them.

That would be a good place to start…!
The prairie use to burn every few years….
More controlled burns would help restore natures balance.

Good thought about the fact that the prairie used to burn every few years.
Yet, how does one align the concept of a "controlled" burn with restoring "natures'" balance?
Unless, of course, one is referring to "human nature" in which case it might be more efficatious to stop watering pet lawns.
(in order to maintain a suitable level of water in the lake for movie shoots, kayaking on the Oklahoma River, and drinking.)

So the lakes are full but with demand higher than supply how long will it be until they are empty again?

Under normal conditions, the demand is not higher than the supply and ongoing water conservation efforts will temper that.

We should probably come up with a plan to discourage people from out of state (like Floridians) from moving here, or at least set the bar pretty high for entry. But then most of us aren't indigenous people so there's that...

In other water conservation news...

Power lost at Draper Water Treatment Plant

Monday's storms knocked out the power at the Draper Water Treatment Plant. It is important that residents and businesses IN SOUTHEAST OKLAHOMA CITY STOP USING WATER. Emergency generators will begin operating the plant soon. OG&E is working to reinstate the power. Please be sure to be sure sprinkler systems are turned off and postpone washing dishes and clothes and operating other water using appliances. The Water Quality Division has a generator supplier on contract, and work to restore power is underway.

okc.gov

The OKC Facebook page says at 7:30am: ALERT: We need ALL customers to turn off outdoor water use to help deliver water to affected areas.

Does anyone really need their sprinklers on after all that rain?