We wouldn't have to go the same landscaping extremes as Phoenix or Albuquerque to save significant water. In fact, going to rock yards could actually be detrimental in this case, by causing a more pronounced urban heat island (http://www.epa.gov/hiri/impacts/index.htm).

Instead, it would be great if we could shift the culture to xeriscaping (http://www.keepoklahomabeautiful.com/native-landscaping-xeriscaping). Using plant materials native to the region that naturally thrive without much human intervention (read: watering) with smaller, more USABLE lawns tucked in with the landscaping, would diminish water usage significantly and also lead to generally more attractive lawns at the same time. A byproduct for homeowners would be less time spent mowing or less money spent on landscape maintenance (and mowing). Also fewer grass clippings in sewers and landfills, less carbon from decomposing clippings...benefits for everyone regardless of motivation. It can be financially-driven OR ecologically-driven.

But the move would definitely need to take root in the new home building industry to survive, thrive and trickle throughout the city. Maybe some sort of financial incentive to builders who xeriscape? Fee waivers, tax breaks, etc.?

We wouldn't have to go the same landscaping extremes as Phoenix or Albuquerque to save significant water. In fact, going to rock yards could actually be detrimental in this case, by causing a more pronounced urban heat island (http://www.epa.gov/hiri/impacts/index.htm).

Instead, it would be great if we could shift the culture to xeriscaping (http://www.keepoklahomabeautiful.com/native-landscaping-xeriscaping). Using plant materials native to the region that naturally thrive without much human intervention (read: watering) with smaller, more USABLE lawns tucked in with the landscaping, would diminish water usage significantly and also lead to generally more attractive lawns at the same time. A byproduct for homeowners would be less time spent mowing or less money spent on landscape maintenance (and mowing). Also fewer grass clippings in sewers and landfills, less carbon from decomposing clippings...benefits for everyone regardless of motivation. It can be financially-driven OR ecologically-driven.

But the move would definitely need to take root in the new home building industry to survive, thrive and trickle throughout the city. Maybe some sort of financial incentive to builders who xeriscape? Fee waivers, tax breaks, etc.?

Urbanized - you hit a grand slam with this post.

We wouldn't have to go the same landscaping extremes as Phoenix or Albuquerque to save significant water. In fact, going to rock yards could actually be detrimental in this case, by causing a more pronounced urban heat island (http://www.epa.gov/hiri/impacts/index.htm).

Instead, it would be great if we could shift the culture to xeriscaping (http://www.keepoklahomabeautiful.com/native-landscaping-xeriscaping). Using plant materials native to the region that naturally thrive without much human intervention (read: watering) with smaller, more USABLE lawns tucked in with the landscaping, would diminish water usage significantly and also lead to generally more attractive lawns at the same time. A byproduct for homeowners would be less time spent mowing or less money spent on landscape maintenance (and mowing). Also fewer grass clippings in sewers and landfills, less carbon from decomposing clippings...benefits for everyone regardless of motivation. It can be financially-driven OR ecologically-driven.

But the move would definitely need to take root in the new home building industry to survive, thrive and trickle throughout the city. Maybe some sort of financial incentive to builders who xeriscape? Fee waivers, tax breaks, etc.?

Very sensible and very well written.

We wouldn't have to go the same landscaping extremes as Phoenix or Albuquerque to save significant water. In fact, going to rock yards could actually be detrimental in this case, by causing a more pronounced urban heat island (http://www.epa.gov/hiri/impacts/index.htm).

Instead, it would be great if we could shift the culture to xeriscaping (http://www.keepoklahomabeautiful.com/native-landscaping-xeriscaping). Using plant materials native to the region that naturally thrive without much human intervention (read: watering) with smaller, more USABLE lawns tucked in with the landscaping, would diminish water usage significantly and also lead to generally more attractive lawns at the same time. A byproduct for homeowners would be less time spent mowing or less money spent on landscape maintenance (and mowing). Also fewer grass clippings in sewers and landfills, less carbon from decomposing clippings...benefits for everyone regardless of motivation. It can be financially-driven OR ecologically-driven.

But the move would definitely need to take root in the new home building industry to survive, thrive and trickle throughout the city. Maybe some sort of financial incentive to builders who xeriscape? Fee waivers, tax breaks, etc.?

Very sensible and very well written.

We wouldn't have to go the same landscaping extremes as Phoenix or Albuquerque to save significant water. In fact, going to rock yards could actually be detrimental in this case, by causing a more pronounced urban heat island (http://www.epa.gov/hiri/impacts/index.htm).

Instead, it would be great if we could shift the culture to xeriscaping (http://www.keepoklahomabeautiful.com/native-landscaping-xeriscaping). Using plant materials native to the region that naturally thrive without much human intervention (read: watering) with smaller, more USABLE lawns tucked in with the landscaping, would diminish water usage significantly and also lead to generally more attractive lawns at the same time. A byproduct for homeowners would be less time spent mowing or less money spent on landscape maintenance (and mowing). Also fewer grass clippings in sewers and landfills, less carbon from decomposing clippings...benefits for everyone regardless of motivation. It can be financially-driven OR ecologically-driven.

But the move would definitely need to take root in the new home building industry to survive, thrive and trickle throughout the city. Maybe some sort of financial incentive to builders who xeriscape? Fee waivers, tax breaks, etc.?

I'm pretty sure the starting point would be to rewrite the city landscaping ordinance that spells out a point system bases on quantities and square feet of turf, shrubs, trees and that requires an irrigation method. I have doubts xeriscaping methods were considered when it was written nor would fit well within the ordinance. Maybe someone who has designed xeriscaping in compliance with the ordinance can comment on that.

OKC is fine for water as long as the Texans don't start tapping our water resources. Screw Texas.

Sorry to take such a simplistic approach.
I agree, let them figure out their own mess instead of stealing from across borders. They aren't being very "Texas" if they aren't "self-sufficient" like they try to claim they are.


But the move would definitely need to take root in the new home building industry to survive, thrive and trickle throughout the city. Maybe some sort of financial incentive to builders who xeriscape? Fee waivers, tax breaks, etc.?
Getting the cities to adopt better landscaping codes as mkjeeves posted is critical along with getting HOA rules changed to allow it. Anything different than an English estate lawn seems to irritate both of those groups.

We wouldn't have to go the same landscaping extremes as Phoenix or Albuquerque to save significant water. In fact, going to rock yards could actually be detrimental in this case, by causing a more pronounced urban heat island (http://www.epa.gov/hiri/impacts/index.htm).

Instead, it would be great if we could shift the culture to xeriscaping (http://www.keepoklahomabeautiful.com/native-landscaping-xeriscaping). Using plant materials native to the region that naturally thrive without much human intervention (read: watering) with smaller, more USABLE lawns tucked in with the landscaping, would diminish water usage significantly and also lead to generally more attractive lawns at the same time. A byproduct for homeowners would be less time spent mowing or less money spent on landscape maintenance (and mowing). Also fewer grass clippings in sewers and landfills, less carbon from decomposing clippings...benefits for everyone regardless of motivation. It can be financially-driven OR ecologically-driven.

But the move would definitely need to take root in the new home building industry to survive, thrive and trickle throughout the city. Maybe some sort of financial incentive to builders who xeriscape? Fee waivers, tax breaks, etc.?Absolutely correct.

Another 12 feet could still be added (or a bit more than 32,000 acre-feet of water, over 1/4 it's total volume)


Just curious if that was before or after the torrential rain/hail that came through fri.night/sat.morn.? It rained like crazy right over hefner and hail covered the ground all around the area. Some of the heaviest rain I have seen in a while. That was one strong storm.

So how much rain did the Canton lake area get with this last round? Could OKC go ahead and get another 32k acres and just fill Hefner up? It needs to be completely full for summer fun.

Just curious if that was before or after the torrential rain/hail that came through fri.night/sat.morn.? It rained like crazy right over hefner and hail covered the ground all around the area. Some of the heaviest rain I have seen in a while. That was one strong storm.

After, it was from earlier today off the realtime-ish graph on the US geological survey site


So how much rain did the Canton lake area get with this last round? Could OKC go ahead and get another 32k acres and just fill Hefner up? It needs to be completely full for summer fun.

Some has finally been hitting it's catchment area better than it had with previous storms but even then, most of the heavy rain west of us the last week has been in the Canadian river's catchment area, not the North Canadian river's which goes to Canton. I would hope if we get 32K it is from rain rather than a release, Canton could use all the rain it gets, we have a better chance of filling it through rain than I would have expected a few months ago.

Would not any water over, say, 1200 flood the intake tower, never mind another 12 feet? And what about the south shore?

Another 12 feet could still be added (or a bit more than 32,000 acre-feet of water, over 1/4 it's total volume)Where did you get this? I was at my boat a few days ago. The water is 5 to 6 feet below the boat dock walkways. 12 more feet of water would have the boat docks under water. Also, capacity is 75,000 acre-feet and the current USGS reading is 72,000 acre-feet. That's only 3000 below capacity.

Would be a shame to have to let water out if the current rain trends continue. Would make the draw from Canton seem a little less smart.

I haven't looked at gauge readings but the north end of Overholser is still dry, meaning, I think it's still down and if or when Hefner is full, there's still some storage available for collecting future rainfall before we flow water downstream.

~

I did look and it appears there's room for about 9000 acre feet of water. 1243.4 is max and it's at 1237.85 now.

Where did you get this? I was at my boat a few days ago. The water is 5 to 6 feet below the boat dock walkways. 12 more feet of water would have the boat docks under water. Also, capacity is 75,000 acre-feet and the current USGS reading is 72,000 acre-feet. That's only 3000 below capacity.

This list the volume it is capable of holding up to an elevation of 1209 ft, http://wdr.water.usgs.gov/wy2012/pdfs/07159550.2012.pdf, and mentions it was storing 79,570 acre-feet in 2007. Though from what you mention that max may be theoretical and you probably want a few feet extra to hold any waves created by the wind anyway.

I haven't looked at gauge readings but the north end of Overholser is still dry, meaning, I think it's still down and if or when Hefner is full, there's still some storage available for collecting future rainfall before we flow water downstream.

~

I did look and it appears there's room for about 9000 acre feet of water. 1243.4 is max and it's at 1237.85 now.

The south end of the lake doesn't look like it could hold much more. Absolutely not 12 feet..I would say at most 3 or so.

The south end of the lake doesn't look like it could hold much more. Absolutely not 12 feet..I would say at most 3 or so.

The 12 foot figure was quoted about Hefner. My post was about Overholser, which is 5.50 feet down according to USGS records.

Water report showing max of 1243.4 http://wdr.water.usgs.gov/wy2012/pdfs/07240500.2012.pdf

Current level: http://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?07240500

This list the capacity of the lake up to 1209 ft, http://wdr.water.usgs.gov/wy2012/pdfs/07159550.2012.pdfThat's an odd document. It does call 1209 ft full capacity. Right now the lake is at 1197. At about 1203 the level would be at the bottom of the walkway around the docks. 1209 would flood the docks. A lot of Stars & Stripes, the OKC Boat Club and parts of the golf course would be flooded. Even the East Wharf would be close to flooding.

That's an odd document. It does call 1209 ft full capacity. Right now the lake is at 1197. At about 1203 the level would be at the bottom of the walkway around the docks. 1209 would flood the docks. A lot of Stars & Stripes, the OKC Boat Club and parts of the golf course would be flooded. Even the East Wharf would be close to flooding.

Hefner was designed to hold around 75,000 acre-feet of water. Its historical max is only slightly above that. The "capacity" shown is the elevation that the rip-rap is placed to, though it would flood large areas if the lake elevation were allowed to reach that height. Its drainage basin is only slightly larger than the surface area of the lake, therefore, the only way it could reach that height is if someone forgot to regulate the water in the Hefner canal. Currently it's only a foot and a half below its normal elevation, 1199.

Hefner is almost full, Overholser is also close to normal, and it is almost the 1st of May, normally our wettest month. Maybe, OKC should have waited to draw water.

Hefner is almost full, Overholser is also close to normal, and it is almost the 1st of May, normally our wettest month. Maybe, OKC should have waited to draw water.

I tend to agree with this.

Hefner is almost full, Overholser is also close to normal, and it is almost the 1st of May, normally our wettest month. Maybe, OKC should have waited to draw water.

You can't predict the future. Lake Canton's viability is not OKC's concern. Maybe storage for future draws is, but at the time, we were looking at continuing drought conditions. We still might be. It's our water.

http://137.227.241.67/nwisweb/data/img/USGS.07159550.02.00054..20130122.20130429..0..gif

And looking at that graph and when the release happened, you can't conclude that Hefner would be close to where it is now with or without the release. It still looks like it was a good decision, even in hindsight.

I think one of the decisions on the release came because we had just gotten a good general rain over the area, which allows a larger percentage to flow to Hefner, and not be absorbed by the N. Canadian.

You can't predict the future. Lake Canton's viability is not OKC's concern. Maybe storage for future draws is, but at the time, we were looking at continuing drought conditions. We still might be. It's our water.

http://137.227.241.67/nwisweb/data/img/USGS.07159550.02.00054..20130122.20130429..0..gif

And looking at that graph and when the release happened, you can't conclude that Hefner would be close to where it is now with or without the release. It still looks like it was a good decision, even in hindsight.

What do we do next summer? It will take a lot of rain to fill Canton up for any meaningful release. Meanwhile we are entering our wettest month with a full reservoir. There's a chance we could end up sending water downstream.

Give it up Mid. It was a selfish short-sighted act. OKC bought Enid's storage rights. The town doesn't own the lake. But hey the important thing is the location shorts during the NBA finals are pretty. The spirit of Lake Canton tore Westbrook's meniscus.

No doubt OKC taking the water was the right choice. The only problem is that the release probably should have started in April, and instead of taking 30k, it looks like 20k to 25k would have sufficed, which we would have known with the recent rains. I understand they took it when they did because they weren't sure when the next rain would be...but it's pretty obvious that rain was going to occur in the spring as well.

Let's have the same argument, with the same points, with the same everything, that has happened over last 33 pages. Sounds like a great plan.

Let's have the same argument, with the same points, with the same everything, that has happened over last 33 pages. Sounds like a great plan.

I'm just waiting until September. The problem isn't how much water the lake can hold or how fast it can be filled - the issue is how fast it can be drained. The new water treatment plant can drain the lake dry in 200 days, and they had to build it with that much sucking capacity for a reason.

Give it up Mid. It was a selfish short-sighted act. OKC bought Enid's storage rights. The town doesn't own the lake. But hey the important thing is the location shorts during the NBA finals are pretty. The spirit of Lake Canton tore Westbrook's meniscus.

Location shots during the NBA finals matter. In fact, those shots probably do more for the state's economy than the entire town of Canton. Would it have been best to maybe have taken 10,000 fewer acre-feet? Sure, but no one can predict the future.

No doubt OKC taking the water was the right choice. The only problem is that the release probably should have started in April, and instead of taking 30k, it looks like 20k to 25k would have sufficed, which we would have known with the recent rains. I understand they took it when they did because they weren't sure when the next rain would be...but it's pretty obvious that rain was going to occur in the spring as well.

They couldn't be 100% sure. 2012's Spring was pretty dry. My understanding was that they needed several days of strong, saturating rain in order to be able to release from Canton. We couldn't do that in the middle of one of the summer's "heat dome" periods.

awww, just for giggles and grins, c'mon and admit they could be a little sure of getting more rain this spring. The Arts Festival was still on the schedule after all.

awww, just for giggles and grins, c'mon and admit they could be a little sure of getting more rain this spring. The Arts Festival was still on the schedule after all.

Don't know where they will put anymore water because I drove around Hefner & Overholser today and both lakes look full to the brim to me. In fact,Overholster looks overfull. I don't really care what the data says because these lakes are full.Have no idea about draper but I would imagine it's full also. I haven't seen these city lakes this full in a while.

Here is a good run down of all the area lakes...and Canton since that is of topic here...

http://137.227.252.10/nwisweb/data/img/USGS.07240500.04.00065..20130423.20130430..0..gif

http://137.227.232.139/nwisweb/data/img/USGS.07229445.01.00065..20130423.20130430..0..gif

http://137.227.232.139/nwisweb/data/img/USGS.07159550.01.00065..20130423.20130430..0..gif

Arcadia Lake -- Lake Thunderbird -- Canton Lake

http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/images/lakes/ARCA.lakepage.gif http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/images/lakes/THUN.lakepage.gifhttp://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/images/lakes/CANT.lakepage.gif
http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/images/basinpies/canadian.cp.gif

I went by Overholser this morning and shot a couple of photos to show how low it still is. This is just west of the boat ramp by the dam. I've put arrows on a high water mark that's about 5 to 6 feet above the current water level, which squares with the USGS figures indicating that the lake is 5.5 feet lower than the 2007 high, or about 9000 acre feet of capacity remaining, 1/3 of what we drew from Canton + or -.

That mark is also a few feet lower than being out of the bank.

http://imageshack.us/a/img854/6986/damx.jpg

This is looking east across the northeast part of the lake bed. It's about a 7 foot drop off that riprap in front of me to the lake bed. When this lake is full, that area is under water. The next shot will be looking at the large area to the north of this, that is still bone dry and will be under water also when the lake is full.

http://imageshack.us/a/img809/7191/eastz.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img803/5355/northeast.jpg

If you drive down the road on the east side of Overholser and you don't know what you are looking at, the lake looks full. However, you are looking at the canal, not the lake. The lake is much lower. Here is a shot from the Overholser dam looking north long the wall with the canal on the right and the lake on the left.

http://imageshack.us/a/img812/7673/canalk.jpg

Thanks for the pics. Finally something other than water numbers in this thread.

Canton Lake today.

3689

You could probably build a sweet sandcastle.

You could probably build a sweet sandcastle.

Actually, you need WET sand to build a sand castle.

Canton's catch basin should get some decent rain tonight.

http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/qpf/fill_94qwbg.gif

Actually, you need WET sand to build a sand castle.

Well there's water off in the distance there...

I hope so, but Canton's basin is in the dark blue and green, so .25 to .75, sadly, not enough to create a lot of runoff. We're thankful for every drop, but it's going to take a lot more to get Canton back to normal. May is usually the wettest, so we're still hoping there will be more rain.

I have to imagine that this one lone storm tonight that's been tracking slowly SSE is putting some rainwater in the watershed for Canton!!!

Just a small shower. Mostly .1 to .25. No enough rain to add anything to Canton.

Just a small shower. Mostly .1 to .25. No enough rain to add anything to Canton.

It's just a shame it seems that every lake in Ok. is filling up but canton just gets a trickle here and there. Maybe Canton Lake is just in a bad spot and is destined to dry up and die?

Then let me respectfully say, those 200,000 plus people in NW OKC and it's dependent water districts are also in a bad spot and are destined to dry up and die.

how is that law?

Then let me respectfully say, those 200,000 plus people in NW OKC and it's dependent water districts are also in a bad spot and are destined to dry up and die.

Maybe Stillwater could sell some of its water to NW OKC. But would extending its 3 ft. wide water pipe down there be big enough to meet demand?

Then let me respectfully say, those 200,000 plus people in NW OKC and it's dependent water districts are also in a bad spot and are destined to dry up and die.

BAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Too funny...

It's just a shame it seems that every lake in Ok. is filling up but canton just gets a trickle here and there. Maybe Canton Lake is just in a bad spot and is destined to dry up and die?

Except Canton is where we got the water from (when we were running low) so they must have been getting more than a trickle here and there??? Maybe now that we are getting back to normal, start trucking some of the water back to Canton (yes I realize that probably isn't feasible)?

Sorry, not much coming into Canton Lake. You can check the upstream gauges for actual inflows. You can also watch the gauges on Hefner and Overholser. The Corps of Engineers has some info on their website, as well as USGS.gov.

Lake Hefner is looking fabulous, as it should, since it's now only inches below level. Certainly some fifty sailboats agreed this morning and mid-afternoon; does anyone know the occasion?

pics

Lake Hefner is looking fabulous, as it should, since it's now only inches below level. Certainly some fifty sailboats agreed this morning and mid-afternoon; does anyone know the occasion?

I don't know, but they looked great out on the water!

I don't know, but they looked great out on the water!

Must warm the hearts of others that OKC got to drain Canton Lake so people could take their sailboats out. LOL

Luckily, we can drink water that has sailboats on it.

Interesting that Hefner is full just in time for the marina and ramps to be closed for 6 days for the filming of a movie. It wouldn't look good for a lil big league city to have a half full lake appear in a movie for all to see that it is on the eastern edge of near desert. Guess this priority was more important than being a good neighbor in the real Oklahoma tradition!

Yep, lot of boats out. There's nothing on the online OKC Boat Club calender for today. The other docks and ramps are closed for filming the movie "Rudderless". I watched a chopper take off from the production area this afternoon with a camera person hanging out of the side of it. Could be the boats are related to the filming...or not, just a nice windy day on the lake.

I do wonder if an City of OKC commitment to the film schedule had anything to do with not waiting until the end of spring to release water. (Even though it was going to happen either way. Overholser isn't full and Hefner may still be down.)

Current Lake Info:


http://137.227.252.11/nwisweb/data/img/USGS.07159550.01.00065..20130301.20130512..0..gif http://137.227.252.11/nwisweb/data/img/USGS.07159550.02.00054..20130301.20130512..0..gif


http://137.227.232.139/nwisweb/data/img/USGS.07240500.04.00065..20130301.20130512..0..gif

http://137.227.232.139/nwisweb/data/img/USGS.07240500.05.00054..20130301.20130512..0..gif

Arcadia Lake -- Lake Thunderbird -- Canton Lake

http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/images/lakes/ARCA.lakepage.gif http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/images/lakes/THUN.lakepage.gifhttp://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/images/lakes/CANT.lakepage.gif
http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/images/basinpies/canadian.cp.gif