The last 10 posts....classic. Law with the run around and ljbab with the 'shut yo mouth' routine!

I'm on lj's side. Law...just buck up to the facts. You and the other guy from Major County need to chill the f out. Yeah, we know that Canton has only filled 13% of what OKC took on the draw. We know that it killed your tourism (which doesn't really matter because you've based that tourism on a market that shouldn't have been applicable to what the lake was built for in the first place AND whether that was for Enid or OKC, you locals should have never expected the lake to be at capacity 247-0365 whether it was a 580 or a 405 code, lololol)!

I do not know much about fish in general. In my limited understanding, fish either need water to live in, or to be steamed in, or at a minimum to somewhat help hold the egg mixture so they can be breaded and fried.

So, if the live in part is in question due to evaporation, draw down, etc., what prospects exist to harvest the fish for eating (I'm assuming they aren't really pet material, but hey, if that's wrong, let's add pet pools to the mix.)

Seems a shame for the fish to go to waste instead of waist if it can be avoided, or to lil billy and susie Q's tanks if they are the cute variety in some manner.

I do not know much about fish in general. In my limited understanding, fish either need water to live in, or to be steamed in, or at a minimum to somewhat help hold the egg mixture so they can be breaded and fried.

So, if the live in part is in question due to evaporation, draw down, etc., what prospects exist to harvest the fish for eating (I'm assuming they aren't really pet material, but hey, if that's wrong, let's add pet pools to the mix.)

Seems a shame for the fish to go to waste instead of waist if it can be avoided, or to lil billy and susie Q's tanks if they are the cute variety in some manner.


I still say that everyone in OKC should go to Draper lake and fill a jug for Canton. We can all be repaid in fish.

I was by Draper on Wednesday, simply because I hadn't slipped by there in a while. Like many bodies of water in Oklahoma, Draper it looked like it still could use a few donated jugs rather than send some on to others.

Also Spracht Midtowner (apparently, one of the so-called "Liberal Elites"):


I disagree. I will water multiple times a day, law permitting this Summer to ensure a velvety carpet of thick, dark green fescue in my shaded back yard, with a solid stand of bermuda in the front yard receiving a similar amount. As a side bonus, the ground around my home will remain wet and my foundation will be more likely to remain in tact. We will pay our water bill dutifully. Do you know how great fescue feels on the feet in the summer months? Silky and cool. Love the stuff.

If Canton is drawn down so my yard can stay green, so be it. Just so long as my yard doesn't revert to the nasty red clay it was when I moved in.

I swear.. those folks never watered.


OKC does have a long term water plan. I honestly don't think any of you have a freaking clue what you are talking about. Between the Cantonites (Cantonians?) incessant whining and the constant speculation about how many acre feet the next rainfall is going to bring either lake's level up or lack thereof will bring it down or others' crazy alarmist statements prognosticating doom and gloom and strife because of a lack of a plan for the city's future needs, this discussion is just silly. Hefner is only one tiny piece of OKC's long-term water plan, and yes, that may very well involve a lot of draw downs of Lake Canton, which now exists only to provide Oklahoma City water and to provide for flood control in NW Oklahoma. No one has the right to ski and fish at Lake Canton, we allow you to use it for that simply because we have nowhere else to put the water.

Canton just really doesn't have room to gritch here. You have a free lake. If you have a business which depends on that lake, boy you sure look dumb for having your business depend on something not happening which was inevitably going to happen--a draw down during a drought. Who could ever have seen that coming in a state which just under 100 years ago had the freakin' dust bowl


God's blessing? It's a man made lake. Are you suggesting now that the Army Corps of Engineers is composed of choirs of angels? That hasn't been my experience. And for what it's worth, I'm a great neighbor. I don't leave my dog out at night barking, I keep my yard cut and my flower beds nice and we don't have cacti or succulents or any of that hippy stuff growing in our neighborhood. Just good old fashion suburbia.

I suspect he is storing up wampum to make sure that neither he nor his precious lawn get scalped.
BTW: It's xeriscaping, not zero scaping. Perhaps if you would share the address of your pet lawn a "piss-in" could be organized to help keep it green. =)

The last 10 posts....classic. Law with the run around and ljbab with the 'shut yo mouth' routine!

I have never asked Law to shut up. I just requested that accurate comments be used to support points of view.

I was by Draper on Wednesday, simply because I hadn't slipped by there in a while. Like many bodies of water in Oklahoma, Draper it looked like it still could use a few donated jugs rather than send some on to others.

the pipe from the southeast is "full-on" bringing water to draper" but it will still take a while for it to refill

I suspect he is storing up wampum to make sure that neither he nor his precious lawn get scalped.
BTW: It's xeriscaping, not zero scaping. Perhaps if you would share the address of your pet lawn a "piss-in" could be organized to help keep it green. =)

I merely do what everyone (well the good neighbors) in my neighborhood do. Water frequently, take good care of our lawns, etc. I'm not into "xeriscaping" or manscaping or any of that hippy bullcrap. I have a nice green yard and it isn't even near being threatened. Elsewhere in the U.S., there are serious concerns over water use and water allocation. OKC isn't one of those places.

I do not know much about fish in general. In my limited understanding, fish either need water to live in, or to be steamed in, or at a minimum to somewhat help hold the egg mixture so they can be breaded and fried.

So, if the live in part is in question due to evaporation, draw down, etc., what prospects exist to harvest the fish for eating (I'm assuming they aren't really pet material, but hey, if that's wrong, let's add pet pools to the mix.)

Seems a shame for the fish to go to waste instead of waist if it can be avoided, or to lil billy and susie Q's tanks if they are the cute variety in some manner.

ha ha, stupid dead fish. The important thing is the location shots during the NBA finals will look pretty. Big League city, don't mess with the momentum. Exceptional drought, several years running, e`eh, we've got water to spray on the streets in August.

Ok, I was sillier than necessary, but I am curious. The water drawn can't be sent back upstream. For fish purposes, it's gone. A regular refrain here is not nearly enough water will be likely to fall to avoid a fish massacre this year. So, what other options, if any, exist to harvest the fish rather than accept a die off. Lake can be restocked at at a later date. Harvesting would seem to be the next step, unless there is no viable way to harvest.

The best fishing was always with a boat. The Corps will not allow boats of any kind on the lake, it's too shallow. Fishing is OK from the banks as long as you comply with OK Dept of Wildlife regulations.

I get that, though that seems to address recreational aspects more than a significant harvesting option to remove the majority of the fish prior to any massive die-off. Perhaps there isn't a viable method. Again, I know little of fishing and I am only speculating, but I would think recreational limits and approaches couldn't begin to resolve the situation, and would actually work against a major harvesting process.

Boat fishing is usually the most successful fishing. There's no way to do harvesting style fishing here, physically or legally. The fishermen are fishing as fas as they can, and we're still hoping the drought will break, and there will be enough water to save the fish.

Boat fishing is usually the most successful fishing. There's no way to do harvesting style fishing here, physically or legally. The fishermen are fishing as fas as they can, and we're still hoping the drought will break, and there will be enough water to save the fish.


So I assume Canton got another good drenching last night/today with the storms. I haven't checked how much we have received in OKC yet but it's a good drenching and still raining.

I get that, though that seems to address recreational aspects more than a significant harvesting option to remove the majority of the fish prior to any massive die-off.

Perhaps fishing with dynamite would be in order?

52105 on 12/25
24793 on 2/21
30931 on 04/10

+6000 Acrefeet since the lowest point of the draw down. ~20% restored.

52105 on 12/25
24793 on 2/21
30931 on 04/10

+6000 Acrefeet since the lowest point of the draw down. ~20% restored.

Well that doesn't look so bad. I hope it fills up so next time we need a draw there will be plenty for everyone.

So I assume Canton got another good drenching last night/today with the storms. I haven't checked how much we have received in OKC yet but it's a good drenching and still raining.

While it would have gotten a little, unfortunately where the rain started really coming down was just past the catchment area of Canton

Not alot in Canton, less west/north. More farmer water. Comes down slow or remains in one place, melts slow. Not much run off.

Residents rethink landscaping for predicted drought | KFOR.com (http://kfor.com/2013/04/12/residents-rethink-landscaping-for-predicted-drought/)

I wish Ashley Edwards could spell xeriscaping correctly.

Residents rethink landscaping for predicted drought | KFOR.com (http://kfor.com/2013/04/12/residents-rethink-landscaping-for-predicted-drought/)


Plenty of alternatives are available like drought-resistant plants or even a man-made option, synthetic grass, like that from a company based right here in Oklahoma, Always Greener (http://alwaysgreenerokc.com/) Dr Seuss' The Lorax - Thneedville Song - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EQt_xFOGN8)

I read on facebook where someone saw water being released from Lake Overholser this last week and from the gauge levels it looks like that might be true. Why is that? Filling up the Oklahoma River for boating activities like they said they wouldn't do? Is Hefner full? The drought is over? Are we still on watering restrictions?

USGS Current Conditions for USGS 07241000 North Canadian River blw Lk Overholser nr OKC, OK (http://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?07241000)

I read on facebook where someone saw water being released from Lake Overholser this last week and from the gauge levels it looks like that might be true. Why is that? Filling up the Oklahoma River for boating activities like they said they wouldn't do? Is Hefner full? The drought is over? Are we still on watering restrictions?

USGS Current Conditions for USGS 07241000 North Canadian River blw Lk Overholser nr OKC, OK (http://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?07241000)

LOL, the Oklahoma River doesn't need any release from Lake Overholser to be full. It stayed bascially full all during last summer's worst drought period. It's been mentioned here before that it really only takes a relatively small amount of water for the river.

LOL, the Oklahoma River doesn't need any release from Lake Overholser to be full. It stayed bascially full all during last summer's worst drought period. It's been mentioned here before that it really only takes a relatively small amount of water for the river.

The last time I looked at it, the south end was completely dry. I think they were working on the lock. And a couple of boats where laying on their sides further upstream on the south docks. That was before the rain. So my question again, and especially if the Oklahoma River was full and not impounding water, did we release water and why? Are all of Hefner, Overholser and the Oklahoma River chock full? Did we flow water from Overholser, through the Oklahoma River and on downstream?

I read on facebook where someone saw water being released from Lake Overholser this last week and from the gauge levels it looks like that might be true. Why is that? Filling up the Oklahoma River for boating activities like they said they wouldn't do? Is Hefner full? The drought is over? Are we still on watering restrictions?

USGS Current Conditions for USGS 07241000 North Canadian River blw Lk Overholser nr OKC, OK (http://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?07241000)

It might have been letting some of the junk that accumulates in the dry parts of the river that gets washed downstream when a lot of water comes along pass through river channel next to the lake, rather that let it either settle in the lake or pile up at the dam, they do that when they do they do a release from canton. Alternatively it might be getting time that they were legally required to let some flow downstream, there are some limits on how long after you capture water before you need to release some to meet contractual agreements.

I doubt Hefner is full or the drought is over. Last I heard we are still doing rationing but have not seen anything new on that in the last couple weeks.

The last time I looked at it, the south end was completely dry. I think they were working on the lock.

They drained it on purpose while they were working on the inlet area near the boathouses to make a quasi connection to the canal. They don't need a release from the lake to fill it back up. The amount of water it takes can easily be attained with normal drainage. I don't know if water was released and, if so, why. I'm not, however, going to make unfounded assumptions. I also would want more evidence than someone's facebook post.

I doubt Hefner is full or the drought is over. Last I heard we are still doing rationing but have not seen anything new on that in the last couple weeks.

The last I heard was that the drought was officially over in parts of SE Oklahoma and the OKC area was classified as "exceptionally dry" as opposed to being in a drought.

The last time I looked at it, the south end was completely dry. I think they were working on the lock. And a couple of boats where laying on their sides further upstream on the south docks. That was before the rain. So my question again, and especially if the Oklahoma River was full and not impounding water, did we release water and why? Are all of Hefner, Overholser and the Oklahoma River chock full? Did we flow water from Overholser, through the Oklahoma River and on downstream?

The work on the lock was just being done since the basin was drained for work connecting the river to bricktown and I think putting in a new major sewer line; a couple other projects took advantage of it being down as well. Both the city and the Army Corp of Engineers were adamant no water would be released just for the river. The city already planned a way to use some water from the west basin of the river if these last storms did not materialize, the amount of rain we got in the catchment area that only flows to the river makes it unlikely we would have had much room to keep any other in the river.

The last I heard was that the drought was officially over in parts of SE Oklahoma and the OKC area was classified as "exceptionally dry" as opposed to being in a drought.

In the span of what has generally been referred to as one drought that has lasted over the last couple years we have been in and out of several levels from normal to extreme drought. Plus though the ground may now not be as dry, the vegetation and animal population will not recover so quickly, which would help against relapsing.

Canton @ 31504. Up 6711 from 24793, or ~25% of the draw down.

With the recent rains and storms, are the lakes doing well in the OKC metro? In the OKC watersheds? Any pics :) ?

With the recent rains and storms, are the lakes doing well in the OKC metro? In the OKC watersheds? Any pics :) ?

I think the news last night said that Arcadia is +2 and hefner is just -4 now.

Hefner looks to be at normal levels to me this morning.

With the recent rains and storms, are the lakes doing well in the OKC metro? In the OKC watersheds? Any pics :) ?

Let me google that for you (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Lake+Hefner+Water+Levels)

Let me google that for you (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Lake+Hefner+Water+Levels)
That's awesome!

I wonder how long it can stay at the current level. I suspect 'less than full' will be the new norm. I watched a documentary last week on the Grand Canyon and they talked about how Lake Powell and Lake Mead will never be full again because water demand has exceeded water supply.

That was CREEPY!

Yeah. Again, this thread is just silly. The information folks want is available via a simple Google Search. So much adieu about nothing... Hefner's normal storage is 75,000 acre feet. If you looked at the first thing on the first page of the Google link I posted, it'd tell you that as of today, we're at about 71,000 acre/feet--as in maybe a couple of good rains from being above normal storage capacity and about 2-3 feet under maximum capacity. It would appear:

1) The Canton release was well advised as it ensured that we'd be at a good capacity heading into the Summer.

2) There is no crisis in OKC as to water. Everything is fine.

3) There is no longer any sort of need for daily speculation as to what the hourly storage count is at the Lake.

4) I'll be able to water my fescue....lots...with no worries.

I wonder how long it can stay at the current level. I suspect 'less than full' will be the new norm. I watched a documentary last week on the Grand Canyon and they talked about how Lake Powell and Lake Mead will never be full again because water demand has exceeded water supply.

OKC has plenty of water rights ... this lake will be full more than not

Yeah. Again, this thread is just silly. The information folks want is available via a simple Google Search. So much adieu about nothing... Hefner's normal storage is 75,000 acre feet. If you looked at the first thing on the first page of the Google link I posted, it'd tell you that as of today, we're at about 71,000 acre/feet--as in maybe a couple of good rains from being above normal storage capacity and about 2-3 feet under maximum capacity. It would appear:

1) The Canton release was well advised as it ensured that we'd be at a good capacity heading into the Summer.

2) There is no crisis in OKC as to water. Everything is fine.

3) There is no longer any sort of need for daily speculation as to what the hourly storage count is at the Lake.

4) I'll be able to water my fescue....lots...with no worries.

Bookmark this post and check back on August 15.

OKC has plenty of water rights ... this lake will be full more than not

When was the last time Hefner was consistently full, 2010?

4) I'll be able to water my fescue....lots...with no worries.

You do realize we have been under an ODD/EVEN watering restriction since January that has not yet been lifted?

You do realize we have been under an ODD/EVEN watering restriction since January that has not yet been lifted?

I haven't had to water much lately because of the rain, but yes, I'm aware. My irrigation system has an odd/even timer.

When was the last time Hefner was consistently full, 2010?

Im guessing around there.....It was June/2010 when we got the 9 or 10 inches of rain in one day.

Im guessing around there.....It was June/2010 when we got the 9 or 10 inches of rain in one day.

I looked up the chart - the last time Hefner was at 'normal' was Feb 2010. Since then a water treatment plant has been expanded which can drain the lake twice as fast. The bottom line is that only so much rain falls on the state of Oklahoma, and only a percentage of that water can be captured and stored. Once demand exceeds that level on a regular basis there is nothing left to do but curb demand. That can be done by restricting water usage or by requiring new homes and businesses to have less landscaping that needs to be watered. Oklahoma is on the 20 inch rainfall line - it should act accordingly.

Oh good Lord, chicken little...

read it and weep.

http://www.owrb.ok.gov/supply/ocwp/pdf_ocwp/6acentral.pdf

Oh good Lord, chicken little...

read it and weep.

http://www.owrb.ok.gov/supply/ocwp/pdf_ocwp/6acentral.pdf

From what I've read in that, the figures are almost 20 years old now. Everything seems to point to 1994. The area has definitely had some significant growth since then, so those figures probably aren't as accurate as they could be. However, I know Norman is just now working on the 2060 water plan and it looks like that's the 2050 plan that is linked.

Things have improved some though with the recent rain. Thunderbird I believe is now up to 74% of the conservation pool. However, Norman is still under mandatory odd/even water restrictions. They are plans in the works to tighten the water restrictions. I believe it is when the lake gets to 35-50% of the conservation pool then all outdoor watering is banned.

The mention of Hefner being nice and full now. That is great, except Canton Lake is only 19% full and they've received little rain up there to fill it back up. So if Hefner gets drained this summer, OKC is SOL. They are going to need to pipe in a ton from Southeast Oklahoma which isn't going to be cheap.

Reality of everything, like Kerry said, water in this part of the country is limited unfortunately. We don't have one of the Great Lakes to tap into or constant stream of snowmelt from the mountains. We just need to properly plan in order to not tax the system too much during peak times. That means drought hardy grass and plants and less wasteful use of water.

From what I've read in that, the figures are almost 20 years old now. Everything seems to point to 1994. The area has definitely had some significant growth since then, so those figures probably aren't as accurate as they could be. However, I know Norman is just now working on the 2060 water plan and it looks like that's the 2050 plan that is linked.

Things have improved some though with the recent rain. Thunderbird I believe is now up to 74% of the conservation pool. However, Norman is still under mandatory odd/even water restrictions. They are plans in the works to tighten the water restrictions. I believe it is when the lake gets to 35-50% of the conservation pool then all outdoor watering is banned.

The mention of Hefner being nice and full now. That is great, except Canton Lake is only 19% full and they've received little rain up there to fill it back up. So if Hefner gets drained this summer, OKC is SOL. They are going to need to pipe in a ton from Southeast Oklahoma which isn't going to be cheap.

Reality of everything, like Kerry said, water in this part of the country is limited unfortunately. We don't have one of the Great Lakes to tap into or constant stream of snowmelt from the mountains. We just need to properly plan in order to not tax the system too much during peak times. That means drought hardy grass and plants and less wasteful use of water.

We have to build the pipeline first.
I think a bigger threat is when all the Midtowners down in Texas invade eastern Oklahoma 100 years from now in the great water wars. Lol

We have to build the pipeline first.

??? ... How do you think they are filling Draper?

We have to build the pipeline first.
I think a bigger threat is when all the Midtowners down in Texas invade eastern Oklahoma 100 years from now in the great water wars. Lol

You mean this one that's been around since 1959? :-P

Map of the Atoka Pipeline :: Red River Compact Documents (http://digitalprairie.ok.gov/cdm/compoundobject/collection/redriver/id/648/rec/18)

This is some scary stuff, but I think OKC could conserve water AND beautify itself by more landscaping similar to what is done out west. Things like rock yards instead of grass and drought-resistant ornamental plants. OKC isn't guaranteed 40+ inches of rain per year and doesn't have the luxury of landscaping like they do in Little Rock or Memphis.

This is some scary stuff, but I think OKC could conserve water AND beautify itself by more landscaping similar to what is done out west. Things like rock yards instead of grass and drought-resistant ornamental plants. OKC isn't guaranteed 40+ inches of rain per year and doesn't have the luxury of landscaping like they do in Little Rock or Memphis.

...and you wouldn't have to deal with mowing. Little round up and call it good. :)

You mean this one that's been around since 1959? :-P

Map of the Atoka Pipeline :: Red River Compact Documents (http://digitalprairie.ok.gov/cdm/compoundobject/collection/redriver/id/648/rec/18)

Like its been said other times in this thread that pipeline does nothing to help the north side of town(who are the ones ultimately using Hefner and Canton water). Do we have a way to pump raw lake water to the north side of town? And even if we do how long would it be before the Atoka pipeline has no more capacity with two treatment plants using it?

This is what I was referring to.

We'll be fine for awhile once the actual pipeline expansion is started and completed.

Like its been said other times in this thread that pipeline does nothing to help the north side of town(who are the ones ultimately using Hefner and Canton water). Do we have a way to pump raw lake water to the north side of town? And even if we do how long would it be before the Atoka pipeline has no more capacity with two treatment plants using it?

This is what I was referring to.

We'll be fine for awhile once the actual pipeline expansion is started and completed.

We do not have a way to pump it at the moment, they have been working in recent years to expand where treated water can reach from Draper's station. There is only a hair difference between what the Draper plant can process and the maximum the Pipeline can bring in. Which is why it has been why after construction was finished last summer, it hardly had any headway in filling the lake during the peak summer months last year, it was not till demand reduced in the winter if finally would have started filling back up. Realistically the only way they would have piping raw water to Hefner/Canton as an option would be after the new pipeline to Lake Sardis is finished, which would be at least three years, which assumes none of the people against the project can delay or stop it in court.

Thought you might find this article interesting.......

OKLAHOMA CITY – Residential and commercial water users in Oklahoma City will face stiffer penalties for water use outside prescribed days during the drought, following City Council action this week.
The first offense will cost $119, with subsequent fines of $369, $500 and $1,200 if an offender continues to ignore City Hall’s mandatory water restrictions. City Utilities Director Marsha Slaughter said the ordinance amendment is merely one step toward larger changes planned to shift the city’s paradigm of water consumption.

The higher penalties will be backed up with greater enforcement efforts, she said. In addition to city employees following up on observations and residents reporting their neighbors, Slaughter’s office will also take note of unusually high flow data. City officials said that fines for water use abuse in past years have been rare.

“We’re using our enforcement a little more efficient by using utility data to plan routes to drive for confirmation,” she said. “Where we see areas of greater demand, we’ll be visiting those areas first.”

In December, the Oklahoma City Water Utilities Trust partnered with Oklahoma State University Extension Services to develop public outreach programs to educate and train residents in outdoor water conservation. As the public outreach begins, the remaining elements of establishing a water conservation program, drafting ordinance amendments and developing an enforcement strategy are moving forward. City Hall spokeswoman Kristy Yager said the next regularly scheduled City Council meeting Tuesday is expected to involve more of those issues.

Slaughter said that some corporate clients in the city might appear to flout restrictions, but they might be tapping into alternate sources. The Chesapeake Energy Corp. office complex in northwest Oklahoma City, for example, has access to well water for lawn maintenance, she said.

Slaughter also said her department is investigating the possibility of fine-tuning customers’ irrigation schedules.

Lake Hefner looks full now:3683

Lake Hefner looks full now:3683

Another 12 feet could still be added (or a bit more than 32,000 acre-feet of water, over 1/4 it's total volume)

Reality of everything, like Kerry said, water in this part of the country is limited unfortunately. We don't have one of the Great Lakes to tap into or constant stream of snowmelt from the mountains. We just need to properly plan in order to not tax the system too much during peak times. That means drought hardy grass and plants and less wasteful use of water.
We have been in a two year drought up here in Colorado, the weekly snow dumps this month have helped push snow pack in some areas over 100% but the eastern plains is still in the 80% range last I saw the statewide number was around 92% snow pack. We are in a much better situation than last year but still not great. Our new house has a sprinkler system (first time that I have had one), still waiting until sometime in May to turn it on because we still might have a freeze. We are on twice a week watering with time of day restrictions.

My parents have a well (NW 16th & Meridian area) so watering there has never been an issue. It is a shallow well in that area, only had to dig about 20 feet deep to hit the water table.

OKC is fine for water as long as the Texans don't start tapping our water resources. Screw Texas.

Sorry to take such a simplistic approach.