Drove by Overholser lake today and it looks fine. Doesn't look low at all. Maybe there's hope afterall. Maybe OKC will not run dry as some would like you to believe. I would imagine Canton got a good fill after this latest round of rain. More rain coming in a few days also. My bet is Canton and the OKC lakes will be full again after spring rains. Time to relax.

We would need record breaking rain just to end the drought according to the NWS. Its possible that Hefner could be filled up(because of water from Canton and higher annual rainfall in this part of the state), but its highly unlikely that Canton will be anywhere close to normal levels this year. It would take a tropical storm going over us like Erin.

There was some good rain last year too that gave us some drought relief for a time then the drought came back in full force.

Drove by Overholser lake today and it looks fine. Doesn't look low at all. Maybe there's hope afterall. Maybe OKC will not run dry as some would like you to believe. I would imagine Canton got a good fill after this latest round of rain. More rain coming in a few days also. My bet is Canton and the OKC lakes will be full again after spring rains. Time to relax.

I sincerely doubt a couple of rains are going to fill Canton up. What are you, a 7th grader?

I sincerely doubt a couple of rains are going to fill Canton up. What are you, a 7th grader?

Who said anything about a couple of rains? I said Canton and OKC lakes will be full again after spring rains. And they very well could be. We will see come June. lets see what the next 4 months bring. We have a good start and more on the way so we will see.

Well, I just hope its enough to balance out the summer dry period.

Who cares...move on from it.

Obviously you care or you wouldn't have made the original comment, responded to my post, and wouldn't keep posting here. LOL

When someone doesn't understand a point I make there is absolutely nothing wrong with correcting that situation.

The water level at Canton has now started rising.

CNLO2: Canton Lake (tabular) (http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/webdata/gagedata/CNLO2.current.html)

Who said anything about a couple of rains? I said Canton and OKC lakes will be full again after spring rains. And they very well could be. We will see come June. lets see what the next 4 months bring. We have a good start and more on the way so we will see.

I get ya...but our track record of rains the last few springs have not been drought ending, just drought busting. Trust me, I hope it rains 25" this spring!

DO reporting this morning that the gate was closed at Canton yesterday after slightly more than 30,000 acre-feet were released, lowering Canton to within three feet of its "inactive pool" level, and raising Hefner by around nine feet. It should rise another "couple of feet over the next few days" according to Debbie Ragan, OKC utilities spokeswoman.

I've lived through drought in other parts of the country, and you'd see everyone - everyone - get behind water conservation. Not many grumbles about anything except the weather, everyone on the same team, everybody doing their part. When facing troubles, I see Oklahomans doing a much better job of "bucking up" than anyone else. So pull it together everybody. A little short-term self sacrifice will go a long way towards refilling the reservoirs.

Something I noticed in Austin on a recent visit. Several city buildings and others actually had fake grass around their buildings. The good looking stuff too - not the indoor/outdoor carpet grass. I'd so do that if they could get the price down.
The makers of athletic field products like FieldTurf (and other similar products) have started marketing their products for that type of use.

Tonight's news has the Canton area and watershed getting 3.3 inches of precipitation. Snowfall is expected from 18 - 20 inches from Canton clear to the panhandle. The ground is still pretty saturated so hopefully there will be
an exceptional amount of runoff.

Tonight's news has the Canton area and watershed getting 3.3 inches of precipitation. Snowfall is expected from 18 - 20 inches from Canton clear to the panhandle. The ground is still pretty saturated so hopefully there will be
an exceptional amount of runoff.

I mean, the runoff should be super helpful, but the 1.5 to 2 feet BEFORE the runoff is insanely awesome.

I mean, the runoff should be super helpful, but the 1.5 to 2 feet BEFORE the runoff is insanely awesome.

That 1.5 to 2 feet of snow only amounts to about 3-4 inches of water but it is still helpful nonetheless, NOAA is measuring parts of NW OK up to 6 inches from this storm alone so far.

That 1.5 to 2 feet of snow only amounts to about 3-4 inches of water but it is still helpful nonetheless, NOAA is measuring parts of NW OK up to 6 inches from this storm alone so far.

Right, I wasn't think straight when I posted that.

Right, I wasn't think straight when I posted that.

After all the runoff Canton lake will be doing fine. The panic button pushers can relax a little now.

Hasn't really melted and found its way into the lake yet. It will be interesting where the lake will stand a few days from now.

http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/webdata/gagedata/CNLO2.current.html

After all the runoff Canton lake will be doing fine. The panic button pushers can relax a little now.

Now if you can just get record snowfall every year the problem is solved for awhile.

Now if you can just get record snowfall every year the problem is solved for awhile.

or average precipitation, or maybe 80% of average precip. That outta do it.

It matters little now, what's done being done and all that, but out of curiosity, my understanding is OKC elected to go ahead and take its permitted draw down when it did, rather than having an urgent need to do so at that particular time. If there wasn't an urgent need, given the couple of moisture events since the draw date began, is there a way to estimate how much more of the water would have reached Hefner had the draw been delayed to this week? Or would it be a no real measurable difference situation?

It matters little now, what's done being done and all that, but out of curiosity, my understanding is OKC elected to go ahead and take its permitted draw down when it did, rather than having an urgent need to do so at that particular time. If there wasn't an urgent need, given the couple of moisture events since the draw date began, is there a way to estimate how much more of the water would have reached Hefner had the draw been delayed to this week? Or would it be a no real measurable difference situation?


Since no one else has answered. Yes, the savings would have been measurable. Some were estimating 30-50% loss to the river bed. That would have been reduced considerably. More important with this snow and more spring rains between now and then, the draw may have been avoided, saving almost all Canton water for later.

Since no one else has answered. Yes, the savings would have been measurable. Some were estimating 30-50% loss to the river bed. That would have been reduced considerably. More important with this snow and more spring rains between now and then, the draw may have been avoided, saving almost all Canton water for later.

Too bad the city leader's crystal ball wasn't working.

Too bad the city leader's crystal ball wasn't working.

If they had used some logic, they would not have needed to depend on their faulty crystal ball.

If they had used some logic, they would not have needed to depend on their faulty crystal ball.

I have no issue with their logic. They used the reservoir for what it was for. Did/could it negatively impact some folks? Yep. But so do a lot of very legal decisions by govt's. People are free to protest and make their side known, but personally, I have no problem with the draw. I do wish however people would be better stewards of our natural resources so these decisions would not have to be made.

Well, this is the same state where people throw a fit when meterologists get a forecast wrong. So you can't expect the city to follow climatological data and release water accordingly. lol

Won't Canton lake be refilled with this latest cycle of rains and snows? If so, this was much ado about nothing.

Won't Canton lake be refilled with this latest cycle of rains and snows? If so, this was much ado about nothing.

Well, it seems to me that a great foundation has been laid for that, anyway.

Now, I'm seeing that Hefner is at the amazing level, relatively, of 1,193.18 and rising, which is to say that the projected level is bettered; now it's in the fives, at least. Is this all runoff in addition, or is Overholser catching some Canadian River water and sending it on over?

Well, it seems to me that a great foundation has been laid for that, anyway.

Now, I'm seeing that Hefner is at the amazing level, relatively, of 1,193.18 and rising, which is to say that the projected level is bettered; now it's in the fives, at least. Is this all runoff in addition, or is Overholser catching some Canadian River water and sending it on over?

City lakes look good and Canton Lake will get much more runoff than the city lakes do. I would imagine that Canton lake will have plenty of water and the fish will survive and the lake dependent economy will do just fine. OKC is depending on Canton lake to refill so we can get our water as needed and I see nothing wrong with that.

These are the facts. Do not read anything judgmental into my post.

It took about 3 weeks, and around 9.7 billion gallons of water from Canton Lake to put Hefner and Overholster at this level.

One snow or rain doesn't break a drought, nor will it fill Canton Lake. Canton is still 15 ft low. Only 12% of the conservation pool.

Current stream inflows from the Beaver/N Canadian are not enough to replace the water OKC uses. So as long as we are in a drought, overall lake levels will not increase enough to cover future OKC needs.

OKC continues to add customers and dependent districts to their water needs.

Oklahoma will have more droughts, and as OKC and it's suburbs grow, the demand on Canton Lake will lead to this situation again. Every crisis will be more extreme, because of the increase in OKC needs.

It takes a long time to solve water problems.

Now, I'm seeing that Hefner is at the amazing level, relatively, of 1,193.18 and rising, which is to say that the projected level is bettered; now it's in the fives, at least. Is this all runoff in addition, or is Overholser catching some Canadian River water and sending it on over?

Probably most of it being above projections is from as near ideal conditions to minimize loss in transit as you will get, with some extra from runoff. Given drought conditions they are highly unlikely to send any on they do not have to.

One snow or rain doesn't break a drought, nor will it fill Canton Lake. Canton is still 15 ft low. Only 12% of the conservation pool.

Exactly correct, which negates your earlier statement that Lake Hefner would have been fine without the draw from Canton.

If the USGS numbers are accurate Canton started at about 52,000 acre feet and dropped to about 25,000 acre feet. A loss of 27,000 acre feet. Hefner started at about 40,000 acre feet and is now at about 62,000 acre feet and still rising. So it has taken in 22,000 acre feet. That's a 19% loss. Not 30 to 50%. If I remember correctly we had a decent couple of days of rain right before the release and that's why is was decided to do it then. Apparently the rain was enough to somewhat soak the riverbed. So at least as far as loss vs. timing is concerned it looks like it wasn't horrible timing. I also looked at Overholser and was a bit surprised to see that none of the release is going there.

Since its the only lake on the North Canadian between OKC and Canton, Lake Overholster will probably fill up pretty soon once all of the snow in Blaine and Canadian Counties starts melting, assuming we stay in our active weather pattern.

Lake Hefner's catchment basin is surprisingly small given its size; pretty much all water that falls south of roughly 39th Street flows into the Deep Fork River Basin on its way to Lake Eufaula. Even the creeks directly east and west of the lake flow north towards the Cimmarron River in Logan County. So literally all of the increase in the lake level is from the Canton release.

Even the creeks directly east and west of the lake flow north towards the Cimmarron River in Logan County. So literally all of the increase in the lake level is from the Canton release.

That's exactly what I've explained to others that don't frequent this site...that virtually the only way Hefner receives water is from the connection to Overholser or actual liquid precip that lands in the lake. The average OKC citizen that drives on NW Expressway and sees that body of water by Joe's Crabshack probably thinks that it empties into Lake Hefner but actually goes into the Ski Island Lakes, through Martin Nature Park and up into Guthrie as the Cottonwood Creek, just as you say.

If the USGS numbers are accurate Canton started at about 52,000 acre feet and dropped to about 25,000 acre feet. A loss of 27,000 acre feet. Hefner started at about 40,000 acre feet and is now at about 62,000 acre feet and still rising. So it has taken in 22,000 acre feet. That's a 19% loss. Not 30 to 50%. If I remember correctly we had a decent couple of days of rain right before the release and that's why is was decided to do it then. Apparently the rain was enough to somewhat soak the riverbed. So at least as far as loss vs. timing is concerned it looks like it wasn't horrible timing. I also looked at Overholser and was a bit surprised to see that none of the release is going there.

Probably less than that if you adjust for water we pulled out of Hefner for use during the same time period and accounted for evaporation that occurred at Hefner and would have occurred at Canton if the water had been left there.

So how is canton Lake doing now after the big snow? Is it where it was before OKC took the water?

So how is canton Lake doing now after the big snow? Is it where it was before OKC took the water?

Of course not. It's up about half of a foot. That big snow wouldn't fill it back up just as it wouldn't have filled Lake Hefner.

I think some people are just oblivious to water content when it comes to snow.

And now we seem to be drying out again after tonight's rain which is really pathetic compared to what we thought we may be getting a week ago.

And now we seem to be drying out again after tonight's rain which is really pathetic compared to what we thought we may be getting a week ago.

OMG, are you expecting an inch per week? I see no reason to panic because we might only get 1/4 inch this weekend. We are still above average for the year.

Since the draw down, Canton Lake has increased almost 6 inches, which is about 2,000 acre feet of water. Woodward, which is in the catch basin for Canton, Has gotten 1.2 inches of rain since last night. There will be a considerable runoff by the time this current storm system passes.

derp... I don't know what it's gonna take for people to realize that two storm systems aren't going to top off Canton...

ITT, we witness a discussion of how every rain/non-rain is going to make any sort of major difference whatsoever.

This is an activity which is literally more boring than watching paint dry.

I drove around the lake this afternoon and was pleasantly surprised how much better Hefner is looking. I'm not sure what percentage of 'full' it is but its much improved. Also notice a good flow of water was coming through the canal. I assume the water from the canal today much be from recent rain runoff and not so much from Canton?

pics? also, any CURRENT pics of Canton and Olverholser (sp?)

About the only Q I tend to ask about Hefner:

Are the boats (a) floating in water, or (b) sitting in mud?
Answer (a) means need a lot more rain.
Answer (b) means a little ore probably wouldn't hurt

Now, if the answer is (c) last seen going over dam, that suggests we have ore than enough and Canton is probably too full as well.

About the only Q I tend to ask about Hefner:

Are the boats (a) floating in water, or (b) sitting in mud?
Answer (a) means need a lot more rain.
Answer (b) means a little ore probably wouldn't hurt

Now, if the answer is (c) last seen going over dam, that suggests we have ore than enough and Canton is probably too full as well.

Since their is pretty much no natural flow into or out of Hefner, (c) means someone is stupid for pumping far too much water up into Hefner.

Some nice shots of Lake Hefner taken a couple of days ago:

Lighthouse
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8105/8556336577_4453181752_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/katsrcool/8556336577/in/photostream)


Lighthouse gussied up for St. Pattie's day
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8506/8555517327_e7d7fffc43_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/katsrcool/8555517327/in/photostream/)


RedRock
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8511/8556627504_f063b23010_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/katsrcool/8556627504/in/photostream/)


Photos by katsrcool (http://www.flickr.com/photos/katsrcool/)

All about drinking water?


http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u641/CantonLake/CL_zps9cfd0392.jpg

All about drinking water?


http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u641/CantonLake/CL_zps9cfd0392.jpg

And who ever claimed it was all about drinking water?

Had lunch with the family at Hefner Grill yesterday. Easy to understand why folks in canton are so sore with OKC. Drougt? What drought. Filled to the brim. Be perfect for those location shots during Thunder games. We're big league! Enjoy a lush green yard in historic drought! (sorry about that massive fish kill Canton, how's rec tourism going?) During lunch the waitress kept trying to fill my brother in laws's water glass. He was ok, thirst long quinched. eventually another service staff filled his glass before he could protest, which of course remained full. Apparentlypeople in OKC live in an alternate big league momentum universe where the drought doesn't exist. Suppose there's hope this was done so people can retrive their sailboats if so desired, and not a long term water plan.

No it's not a long term water plan because there's no more water upstream from Hefner. Will take a few good years of rain to fill it back up to any meaningful level.

So how do we refill Hefner this fall/early next year?

Had lunch with the family at Hefner Grill yesterday. Easy to understand why folks in canton are so sore with OKC. Drougt? What drought. Filled to the brim. Be perfect for those location shots during Thunder games. We're big league! Enjoy a lush green yard in historic drought! (sorry about that massive fish kill Canton, how's rec tourism going?) During lunch the waitress kept trying to fill my brother in laws's water glass. He was ok, thirst long quinched. eventually another service staff filled his glass before he could protest, which of course remained full. Apparentlypeople in OKC live in an alternate big league momentum universe where the drought doesn't exist. Suppose there's hope this was done so people can retrive their sailboats if so desired, and not a long term water plan.

There was no fish kill. For that matter, Canton is up about a foot since the draw down. Tourism at Canton ? Nobody is skiing this time of year. All of your negative wishes were not realized with the draw down. Canton is up over 3000 acre feet in the last couple of weeks, and hopefully the rain later this week will keep it rising.

Hopefully there will be enough rain to exonerate OKC officials and there won't be a massive fish kill, but this unnecessary draw down makes it a real possibility this summer.

OKC does have a long term water plan. I honestly don't think any of you have a freaking clue what you are talking about. Between the Cantonites (Cantonians?) incessant whining and the constant speculation about how many acre feet the next rainfall is going to bring either lake's level up or lack thereof will bring it down or others' crazy alarmist statements prognosticating doom and gloom and strife because of a lack of a plan for the city's future needs, this discussion is just silly. Hefner is only one tiny piece of OKC's long-term water plan, and yes, that may very well involve a lot of draw downs of Lake Canton, which now exists only to provide Oklahoma City water and to provide for flood control in NW Oklahoma. No one has the right to ski and fish at Lake Canton, we allow you to use it for that simply because we have nowhere else to put the water.

As to the city's long-term plan, some of it can be found here:

Oklahoma City - Oklahoma Water Rights (http://www.okc.gov/waterrights/environmental.html)

Canton just really doesn't have room to gritch here. You have a free lake. If you have a business which depends on that lake, boy you sure look dumb for having your business depend on something not happening which was inevitably going to happen--a draw down during a drought. Who could ever have seen that coming in a state which just under 100 years ago had the freakin' dust bowl?

Had lunch with the family at Hefner Grill yesterday. Easy to understand why folks in canton are so sore with OKC. Drougt? What drought. Filled to the brim. Be perfect for those location shots during Thunder games. We're big league! Enjoy a lush green yard in historic drought! (sorry about that massive fish kill Canton, how's rec tourism going?) During lunch the waitress kept trying to fill my brother in laws's water glass. He was ok, thirst long quinched. eventually another service staff filled his glass before he could protest, which of course remained full. Apparentlypeople in OKC live in an alternate big league momentum universe where the drought doesn't exist. Suppose there's hope this was done so people can retrive their sailboats if so desired, and not a long term water plan.

Refills on ice water at a restaurant? Outrageous...I will not be dining there

Had lunch with the family at Hefner Grill yesterday. Easy to understand why folks in canton are so sore with OKC. Drougt? What drought. Filled to the brim. Be perfect for those location shots during Thunder games. We're big league! Enjoy a lush green yard in historic drought! (sorry about that massive fish kill Canton, how's rec tourism going?) During lunch the waitress kept trying to fill my brother in laws's water glass. He was ok, thirst long quinched. eventually another service staff filled his glass before he could protest, which of course remained full. Apparentlypeople in OKC live in an alternate big league momentum universe where the drought doesn't exist. Suppose there's hope this was done so people can retrive their sailboats if so desired, and not a long term water plan.

Please tell me this is satire.

That explains it. OKC does indeed exist in an alternate universe where there is no historic drought. The rest of us have noticed that Mother Earth along with climate change is answering that age old question of whether Ok is in the Midwest of Southwest. I long ago went to cacti and succulents and my lawn is au natural and green if mother nature makes it that way. OKC's water plan is waste what you like we'll find somewhere to siphon more. Not exactually forwartd thinking.

... may very well involve a lot of draw downs of Lake Canton, which now exists only to provide Oklahoma City water and to provide for flood control in NW Oklahoma. No one has the right to ski and fish at Lake Canton, we allow you to use it for that simply because we have nowhere else to put the water.

You sound like Lily Tomlin's phone company. We don't care. We don't have to.

OKC does have a long term water plan. I honestly don't think any of you have a freaking clue what you are talking about. Between the Cantonites (Cantonians?) incessant whining and the constant speculation about how many acre feet the next rainfall is going to bring either lake's level up or lack thereof will bring it down or others' crazy alarmist statements prognosticating doom and gloom and strife because of a lack of a plan for the city's future needs, this discussion is just silly. Hefner is only one tiny piece of OKC's long-term water plan, and yes, that may very well involve a lot of draw downs of Lake Canton, which now exists only to provide Oklahoma City water and to provide for flood control in NW Oklahoma. No one has the right to ski and fish at Lake Canton, we allow you to use it for that simply because we have nowhere else to put the water.

As to the city's long-term plan, some of it can be found here:

Oklahoma City - Oklahoma Water Rights (http://www.okc.gov/waterrights/environmental.html)

Canton just really doesn't have room to gritch here. You have a free lake. If you have a business which depends on that lake, boy you sure look dumb for having your business depend on something not happening which was inevitably going to happen--a draw down during a drought. Who could ever have seen that coming in a state which just under 100 years ago had the freakin' dust bowl?

So, when logic prevails and OKC wins full legal rights to Sardis, will Sardis be just like Canton? existing
only to provide Oklahoma City water and to provide for flood control in NW Oklahoma.
... or SE Oklahoma, in this case. From the city's long-term plan that you provided the link to:

Oklahoma City’s plan for water storage would not take massive amounts of water out of Sardis Reservoir. It doesn’t make environmental sense to do so. The City understands the value of maintaining a body of water that provides storage capacity, as well as recreational, economic and wildlife benefits to the state. Further, the Utility will only take what Oklahoma City needs.
I wonder if that was ever said to the people around Canton. I'll bet the tribes and people around Sardis are totally confident that the government won't default on that statement or twist it to mean something else later on. I mean really, those people around Sardis don't really
... have room to gritch here. You have a free lake. If you have a business which depends on that lake, boy you sure look dumb for having your business depend on something not happening which was inevitably going to happen--a draw down during a drought. Who could ever have seen that coming in a state which just under 100 years ago had the freakin' dust bowl?

So, when logic prevails and OKC wins full legal rights to Sardis, will Sardis be just like Canton? existing

It will be much more like Atoka than Canton

Hey, I learned a new word..."gritch"! Love it. Thanks Kevin ;)