Can't say that I had any problems with the internal signs, but glad to see the external ones changing. The old ones always reminded me of the 80s or something. I mean it's not O'Hare, the layout doesn't take 5 minutes to figure out.

I get asked all the time for help getting around. People from out of town don't automatically know where to go and the signage is pretty vague. It doesn't help that the secured area exits out to the departures level and not the arrivals level. I see people waiting all the time on the upper deck thinking that is where they are to be picked up. Only to see them frustratedly talking on the phone and realize they are on the upper deck.

This actually brings it in line with what I've seen at other airports around the country, namely ATL, IAH and HOU to name a few.

Much better than the white on blue reflective film road signs that they use in Louisville (SDF), we tried to get those changed but they won't be until some other projects are completed.

Now perhaps I missed it, but any idea when they will install these signs? I noticed they were just listed as conceptual so I didn't know how close this was to actually happening.

Slightly off-topic, but how does everyone think the fact that airports will no longer accept Oklahoma drivers licenses as of 2016 will affect WRWA? Is it possible more people may fly in and out of DFW and simply drive into OKC rather than use the local airport?

Slightly off-topic, but how does everyone think the fact that airports will no longer accept Oklahoma drivers licenses as of 2016 will affect WRWA? Is it possible more people may fly in and out of DFW and simply drive into OKC rather than use the local airport?

Unless I misread the article, it's the actual licenses that are the problem. Driving to DFW won't help if you have an Oklahoma DL. I'll be able to use WRWA just fine with my Texas DL.

Who is the signage vendor?

Unless I misread the article, it's the actual licenses that are the problem. Driving to DFW won't help if you have an Oklahoma DL. I'll be able to use WRWA just fine with my Texas DL.

That is absolutely correct. Driving to DFW won't change a thing.

My passport is going to expire in April, I think I am going to go ahead and purchase the book and card and use the card for domestic flights or anything Federal. Then again I also have my FAA PIV card I could use as well. There was an extensive vetting process that I had to go through to get that thing.

My passport is going to expire in April, I think I am going to go ahead and purchase the book and card and use the card for domestic flights or anything Federal. Then again I also have my FAA PIV card I could use as well. There was an extensive vetting process that I had to go through to get that thing.

Why would you want to pay for both when the passport will work for any destination?

Why would you want to pay for both when the passport will work for any destination?
The card will not work for international flights, only land border crossings but will fit in my wallet to show as ID for domestic flights.

The card will not work for international flights, only land border crossings but will fit in my wallet to show as ID for domestic flights.

I understand what the card works for but paying for both doesn't seem logical to me if you're concerned that your driver's license won't work. You can certainly do that but a passport takes up no more room than a phone and mine fits easily in my shirt pocket when I travel and I don't have to get my wallet out of my pocket.

I understand what the card works for but paying for both doesn't seem logical to me if you're concerned that your driver's license won't work. You can certainly do that but a passport takes up no more room than a phone and mine fits easily in my shirt pocket when I travel and I don't have to get my wallet out of my pocket.
I could put it in my pants or coat pocket, when I travel I am usually wearing a shirt with no pockets out of comfort. I guess when I am already spending $110 for a passport another $30 doesn't make that much difference to have the card as well. In the grand scheme of things it is one of the least of the expenses to travel internationally.

I could put it in my pants or coat pocket, when I travel I am usually wearing a shirt with no pockets out of comfort. I guess when I am already spending $110 for a passport another $30 doesn't make that much difference to have the card as well. In the grand scheme of things it is one of the least of the expenses to travel internationally.

If $30 isn't important to you, I understand. I've been in the travel business for over 25 years though and I would never recommend that to my customers. I almost always encourage them to get a passport and not a card. Just as a point of interest though, how is wearing a shirt with no pocket more comfortable? I always want a shirt with a pocket when I travel and have never noticed it being uncomfortable. I know that is just a little off topic to Will Rogers World Airport. LOL

Slightly off-topic, but how does everyone think the fact that airports will no longer accept Oklahoma drivers licenses as of 2016 will affect WRWA? Is it possible more people may fly in and out of DFW and simply drive into OKC rather than use the local airport?

Can you explain this a little?

Can you explain this a little?
OK Driver's Licenses Not Secure; Will No Longer Be Accepted In C - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/26549199/ok-drivers-licenses-not-secure-will-no-longer-be-accepted-in-certain-areas)


OKLAHOMA CITY - If you rely on your Oklahoma Driver's license to get into a secure area like a federal building or an airplane, things will be changing. Oklahoma is one of a handful of states that hasn't complied with a federal mandate to make our driver's licenses more secure.
Beginning in 2015, you won't be able to use your Oklahoma Driver's license as an ID to get through security at federal buildings. And in 2016 you won't be able to use it at the airport either.

“You would be required to have a driver's license and a passport or some other federal ID to actually go through the TSA checkpoint or fly on a commercial aircraft,” explained Karen Carney, spokeswoman with the Will Rogers World Airport.

That's because back in 2005, Congress passed the REAL ID Act that would make it harder for terrorists to get fake ID's. But in 2007, Oklahoma passed a law forbidding compliance with the act.

If $30 isn't important to you, I understand. I've been in the travel business for over 25 years though and I would never recommend that to my customers. I almost always encourage them to get a passport and not a card. Just as a point of interest though, how is wearing a shirt with no pocket more comfortable? I always want a shirt with a pocket when I travel and have never noticed it being uncomfortable. I know that is just a little off topic to Will Rogers World Airport. LOL

I am a t-shirt kind of guy, don't usually wear button up shirts or polos except polos at work on the days requiring it. I also don't feel comfortable putting anything in a shirt pocket because I am afraid it would fall out. On air flights I am the one wearing sweats or something close to it. I haven't fully decided on getting the card yet, but I just figured it would be more convenient because I could keep it in my wallet and it would be on my person at all times vs a passport book which is something I would be storing in my safe except for those rare international travels.

I am a t-shirt kind of guy, don't usually wear button up shirts or polos except polos at work on the days requiring it. I also don't feel comfortable putting anything in a shirt pocket because I am afraid it would fall out. On air flights I am the one wearing sweats or something close to it. I haven't fully decided on getting the card yet, but I just figured it would be more convenient because I could keep it in my wallet and it would be on my person at all times vs a passport book which is something I would be storing in my safe except for those rare international travels.

As I said, if you're comfortable with that and aren't worried about the extra cost, I understand. It's just not something I would recommend to most people. I've never put anything in my shirt pocket when I'm traveling that fell out so I can't relate to that fear. I don't worry about anything falling out of a shirt pocket more than falling out of a pant's pocket. In fact, I feel more comfortable with being in control of something in my shirt pocket than a pant's pocket.

I absolutely hate the idea of traveling domestically with my passport.

I absolutely hate the idea of traveling domestically with my passport.

I normally don't do that but I don't see any problem with it. I would rather do that than spend extra money for a passport card.

But isn't the state already working on getting the new ID layout completed? It basically looks the same as what we have now, they just shuffled things around a bit and did some other little things to it. Once that's done, you would be able to go get a new ID at any time, even if it's not expired. And within a few years, everyone would have the new one anyway because they will have all expired.

As long as OK is doing something, I'll happily go get a new state ID, something that won't cost me $100+ to replace should it be lost, but still not as useless as a passport card.

But isn't the state already working on getting the new ID layout completed? It basically looks the same as what we have now, they just shuffled things around a bit and did some other little things to it. Once that's done, you would be able to go get a new ID at any time, even if it's not expired. And within a few years, everyone would have the new one anyway because they will have all expired.

If the current DL isn't expired, will it cost to get the new one? Mine's good until 2017 (I do have a passport, though, so it's not really a problem, just curious).

what a giant pain in the ass, have been under a rock or has this just not been reported very well?

But isn't the state already working on getting the new ID layout completed? It basically looks the same as what we have now, they just shuffled things around a bit and did some other little things to it. Once that's done, you would be able to go get a new ID at any time, even if it's not expired. And within a few years, everyone would have the new one anyway because they will have all expired.

From the article

On Tuesday the Department of Public Safety says because of that law it "is not taking steps to ensure compliance with the federal REAL ID Act, and has not implemented any policy or practice for the purpose of meeting any of the act's requirements."

So it appears they are not working to correct the problem.

Stupid, stupid, stupid. Okielahoma!

Hey, at least we really got to make our ideological point and thumb our noses at the federal government! That'll teach 'em!

Hey, at least we really got to make our ideological point and thumb our noses at the federal government! That'll teach 'em!

If you are going to use this tactic, at least make sure it doesn't hurt you more than it hurts the person you are trying to be rebellious against.

The feds probably shrugged, and said "Okkayyy whatever you want."

Can't believe how short sighted we are.

The term is "cutting off your nose to spite your face."

So what are the odds we finally back down but the transition cost at least two or three times as much as was necessary since it has to be rushed.

Some legislation will get passed once more of the public gets informed but you are right the costs will be astronomically higher

From the article

On Tuesday the Department of Public Safety says because of that law it "is not taking steps to ensure compliance with the federal REAL ID Act, and has not implemented any policy or practice for the purpose of meeting any of the act's requirements."

So it appears they are not working to correct the problem.

So were the images posted here of a new layout of the "new" design farcical? I guess we're just getting two different stories and I'm not sure which to believe. I would find it incredibly difficult to believe that the state would not be making any changes if the TSA was going to start denying travel because of this. Maybe a lawyer here can fill us in on whether a state even has the option to not comply with a federal ID law. The way I understood that piece was that if the federal government decided it, the changes trickle down whether the states want them or not...just like with any federal law.

TheTravellers - yes it would cost you to get a new one, just as it costs to renew it (which is basically what you're doing since it starts the expiration clock back over to zero). It's the same as if you lost it and needed to get a new one.

I should also point out that MORE than 1/2 the country is NOT in compliance with this law....far from being just Oklahoma.

Maybe a lawyer here can fill us in on whether a state even has the option to not comply with a federal ID law. The way I understood that piece was that if the federal government decided it, the changes trickle down whether the states want them or not...just like with any federal law.

States have the right not to comply with Federal guidelines and laws, but there are always consequences. For instance, the drinking age in each state is now 21 because Federal appropriations laws state that, if you want Federal highways moneys, you have to have a drinking age of 21 (if I recall correctly). Same goes with the 0.08 blood alcohol limits now, I believe.

If Oklahoma and other states are willing to deal with the consequences, the Feds will allow it.

Also, according to Newsok's article (REAL ID law may complicate travel for Oklahoma driver's license holders | News OK (http://newsok.com/real-id-law-may-complicate-travel-for-oklahoma-drivers-license-holders/article/5341632)), only NINE states are out of compliance... not half, and only 6 of those are out of compliance with the Driver's License for air travel portion.

So is there any indication when these signs will go up? I'm excited about this. Isn't a huge change, but glad to see the airport start doing these kinds of things. Should help the airport have a "bigger" feel to it.

I'd be interested to know what the source of information was for the newsok article though. My information may be dated now (i'll concede that for sure), but as of not long ago, it was over 50%. And the list of states that had passed state resolutions to prevent the ID from going into affect was more than 9 as well.

The more i read about the ID, the more I can understand why Oklahoma is so opposed to it. It's FAAAAR more than just shuffle junk around on the ID. It's sort of a combined Bush-era immigration net and also puts a lot of responsibility on the state to provide information to the federal govt (that they dont today) as well as with Canada and Mexico. It's been ruled on a few times and extended a few times as well (i think it was originally supposed to go into effect in 06, then 11). I betcha this one ends up at the supreme court with an injunction before that.

My passport is going to expire in April, I think I am going to go ahead and purchase the book and card and use the card for domestic flights or anything Federal. Then again I also have my FAA PIV card I could use as well. There was an extensive vetting process that I had to go through to get that thing.
I had an FAA contractor badge before I moved to Austin in 2003, definitely a process to get one. I have been through some others as well, I currently have GSA and DIA contractor badges and getting ready to add AOB and driving privileges to my DIA since I am one of the primary contacts on our DIA on-call contract. All of them had the FBI background checks to get them.


If $30 isn't important to you, I understand. I've been in the travel business for over 25 years though and I would never recommend that to my customers. I almost always encourage them to get a passport and not a card. Just as a point of interest though, how is wearing a shirt with no pocket more comfortable? I always want a shirt with a pocket when I travel and have never noticed it being uncomfortable. I know that is just a little off topic to Will Rogers World Airport. LOL
I'm not a fan of pockets on shirts either, just something I don't like about them.

Atlantic filed today for $1.5 Million 110,000 square foot building permit for extension of their ramp area.

While I don't know for sure where the expansion will be; it will most likely be this area to the south, highlighted, as those dimensions match 110,000 square feet and fits well on their leased property.

http://i.gyazo.com/66690cb96ee866d34d832fa3db210d98.png

Do you know why they would need that?

Just more ramp space. They have been bidding for charter work lately, have seen the occasional A319 and 737 over there. Plus they tend to do a lot of business anyway with Corporate aviation and general aviation. This is ramp space not a hangar.

Just more ramp space. They have been bidding for charter work lately, have seen the occasional A319 and 737 over there. Plus they tend to do a lot of business anyway with Corporate aviation and general aviation. This is ramp space not a hangar.
I understand that it is ramp space. I just don't understand why it is worth that much money to them because I don't know how their operation works.

Well they are a national company, they can afford to buy that much concrete. Going off memory, I believe their initial cost for their KOKC operation was $28 million. So this is a 5% investment on top of that.

Well they are a national company, they can afford to buy that much concrete. Going off memory, I believe their initial cost for their KOKC operation was $28 million. So this is a 5% investment on top of that.

I'm not questioning that they can afford it. I'm just wondering why more ramp space is needed.

I'm not questioning that they can afford it. I'm just wondering why more ramp space is needed.

I agree with you man. That's concrete that could go to my 20 lane highway I want I35 to be transformed into ;)

I agree with you man. That's concrete that could go to my 20 lane highway I want I35 to be transformed into ;)

Or not. :Smiley122

I'm not questioning that they can afford it. I'm just wondering why more ramp space is needed.

Like I've said they have been bidding on larger charter work. 737's and Airbuses aren't an unusual sight over there. With a growing local economy there is also bound to be more corporate jets flying in. Their ramp can be pretty crowded at times.

Speaking of crowded the other day I saw two KC-10s and two KC-135s on the ARINC ramp. Looks like it's a busy place too!

You airport guys....this past March airport admin presented plans for the terminal/3 gate expansion and cargo relocation. Any news on this? I wasn't sure if it was officially approved or still needs some official action. Is there a known time frame for beginning work on the project? Thanks.

You airport guys....this past March airport admin presented plans for the terminal/3 gate expansion and cargo relocation. Any news on this? I wasn't sure if it was officially approved or still needs some official action. Is there a known time frame for beginning work on the project? Thanks.

Oklahoma City unveils plans for $70 million expansion at Will Rogers World Airport | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-unveils-plans-for-70-million-expansion-at-will-rogers-world-airport/article/3939884)


Administrators are planning a $70 million project at Will Rogers World Airport to expand the terminal, improve security check-in procedures and add a concourse with three new gates.
Six more gates eventually could be added to the new east concourse, bringing the airport’s total to 26, the city’s airports director, Mark Kranenburg, told the city council on Tuesday.
“We need to move,” Kranenburg said. By starting now, he said, a larger terminal and three new gates could open by 2017.


This is the current procedure.

WRWA > CURRENT PROJECTS (http://flyokc.com/CurrentProjectDetails.aspx?ID=7640c7e9-09af-4fd4-9fa1-d21f7904a254)

looks like the expansion will get us to 20 gates. Im shocked that they're only partially building out the east concourse, particularly the fact that the Customs arrival area is not included this go around. Why not build it all now, wouldn't it be cheaper and more efficient?

it is a shame they're not changing the escalator to go down. It looks like they will eliminate the east escalator yet have all arrivals go down the existing west one. BOTTLE NECK!!!

my bad, it WILL have customs arrival hall on the lowest level of the new concourse and processing looks like as you head toward the new baggage claim. Nearly 9,000 square feet in total, not bad.

I assumed customs wouldn't be built until later as the rendering shows a very large jet in the final expansion area (not the current expansion) but the current expansion does show full customs as pax arrive then immediately go downstairs. cool.

It does seem odd that they would only had a few gates instead of just finish it out. The biggest thing is to get the cargo section demo'd, so it makes the future expansion easier to handle. So I can think of two things as reasons...and these aren't anything other than thoughts:
1 - phase 1 costs quite a big because of the added demo and utility moves, so you can more evenly split up the expansion costs between different fiscal years or whatever. adding the larger portion of gates then is relatively easy because it's just addition of building without all the other stuff.
2 - they don't want to expand too fast and leave it feeling empty with gates that are unused. We might have them all leased, but that's different from having them in use as far as the passenger's opinions go. While they might be generating revenue, if you've ever been to an airport with a lot of empty gates, you know how that impacts your view of the place. The more empty, the more you feel like people don't want to come to that city.

When does this project kick off?

Also, according to Newsok's article (REAL ID law may complicate travel for Oklahoma driver's license holders | News OK (http://newsok.com/real-id-law-may-complicate-travel-for-oklahoma-drivers-license-holders/article/5341632)), only NINE states are out of compliance... not half, and only 6 of those are out of compliance with the Driver's License for air travel portion.

It's a matter of semantics. DHS says nine states are not compliant, but in that figure they're excluding states that aren't compliant but have filed for extensions. According to this slightly sketchy-looking website (http://www.idsecuritynow.org/2014-real-id-state-map.html), only 21 states are REAL ID compliant. So it's true that over half (29) of the states are out of compliance.

Of the states that have filed for an extension, I believe six have passed laws that prohibit pursuing compliance with REAL ID. Fifteen states in total have prohibited REAL ID compliance. Twenty-five states have said they will not comply with REAL ID requirements (ACLU (https://www.aclu.org/blog/technology-and-liberty/yes-states-really-reject-real-id)). REAL ID is opposed by a multitude of privacy-focused organizations, including ACLU. Rejection of REAL ID doesn't seem to be a fringe idea. And Oklahoma isn't stupid or short-sighted for it (looking at you, catch22). We're in good company.

Unless something changes in the states, chances are 1/1/2016 will come around and DHS will have delayed implementation of the TSA/air travel requirement again for the umpteenth time.

When does this project kick off?

Please see the second part of my post number 232. It's about starting the solicitation process.

The demand is not there right now to build all 8 or 9 new gates that the fully-built east concourse will have. They will be built as and when demand picks up. Many airports take this phase-wise approach, which is more prudent especially these days to account for unforseen events.

but isn't it more costly and impact to the operation to delay?

but isn't it more costly and impact to the operation to delay?

The terminal design should keep impacts to a minimum when speaking about airline operations. That's better than having to have an area that needs to be climate controlled, powered, and more for no reason.

It's a matter of semantics. DHS says nine states are not compliant, but in that figure they're excluding states that aren't compliant but have filed for extensions. According to this slightly sketchy-looking website (http://www.idsecuritynow.org/2014-real-id-state-map.html), only 21 states are REAL ID compliant. So it's true that over half (29) of the states are out of compliance.

Of the states that have filed for an extension, I believe six have passed laws that prohibit pursuing compliance with REAL ID. Fifteen states in total have prohibited REAL ID compliance. Twenty-five states have said they will not comply with REAL ID requirements (ACLU (https://www.aclu.org/blog/technology-and-liberty/yes-states-really-reject-real-id)). REAL ID is opposed by a multitude of privacy-focused organizations, including ACLU. Rejection of REAL ID doesn't seem to be a fringe idea. And Oklahoma isn't stupid or short-sighted for it (looking at you, catch22). We're in good company.

Unless something changes in the states, chances are 1/1/2016 will come around and DHS will have delayed implementation of the TSA/air travel requirement again for the umpteenth time.

Careful, the last time I pointed out these facts, I was told I was wrong and bashed. Although I still agree with you.

The terminal design should keep impacts to a minimum when speaking about airline operations. That's better than having to have an area that needs to be climate controlled, powered, and more for no reason.

Venture, I was reading an article yesterday about renovations coming to LGA. In the article, a consultant was quoted as saying to the effect of the new LGA should not offer anything for regional jets because regional jets are dying and will be gone within 20 years. When people talk about regional jets dying, does that include jets like the Embraer 170s and 190s? Or is it more focused on things like the CRJs? Where is the line drawn on what qualifies as a regional jet?