I was on a Frontier flight from MCO [to OKC] a couple weeks back. The flight would continue on to San Diego after the stopover in OKC. I'd say about 40 percent of the passengers were going to continue on to SAN. We landed about 30 minutes early, right at 8:20 PM, so the flight attendants let the SAN passengers know they could get off the plane to get food and stretch their legs. About two minutes later, another announcement was made that no restaurants were open but they could still get off the plane to use the restroom. This resulted in a lot of moans and groans and what I would assume a negative view on OKC as to why there is nothing open at 8:00 in the evening.

On another note, It's crazy to me that Coffee Bean can leave out bottles of water and other things for sale out in the open when they're closed. Try doing this in LGA, BOS, LAS, or any other large airport and all that product would be gone the next day!

I was on a Frontier flight from MCO [to OKC] a couple weeks back. The flight would continue on to San Diego after the stopover in OKC. I'd say about 40 percent of the passengers were going to continue on to SAN. We landed about 30 minutes early, right at 8:20 PM, so the flight attendants let the SAN passengers know they could get off the plane to get food and stretch their legs. About two minutes later, another announcement was made that no restaurants were open but they could still get off the plane to use the restroom. This resulted in a lot of moans and groans and what I would assume a negative view on OKC as to why there is nothing open at 8:00 in the evening.

On another note, It's crazy to me that Coffee Bean can leave out bottles of water and other things for sale out in the open when they're closed. Try doing this in LGA, BOS, LAS, or any other large airport and all that product would be gone the next day!

Recall early 2000s many of my relatives (Texas, California) were awed that you could go to a service station like OKC 7-Elevens gas up then pay. Now all that has changed . . .

Agree, WRWA needs to address the food situation at the airport; this doesn't bode well for a market of our size.

Just curious what the passenger count is after 8:00pm and what the estimated customer count would be for a restaurant.

I would think either the airport or the OKC CofC has done a demand study. Maybe Catch22 can let us know and if one has been done, where we can see the results.

just curious what the passenger count is after 8:00pm and what the estimated customer count would be for a restaurant.

I would think either the airport or the okc cofc has done a demand study. Maybe catch22 can let us know and if one has been done, where we can see the results.

get out of here with your numbers and logic on how to run a business i want 5 star restaurants open 24/7

Just curious what the passenger count is after 8:00pm and what the estimated customer count would be for a restaurant.

I would think either the airport or the OKC CofC has done a demand study. Maybe Catch22 can let us know and if one has been done, where we can see the results.

Handful of departures around 8. I think Alaska to SEA at 8, American to DFW 820. (Right now) Frontier to San Diego at 9:20.

That’s about 200-300 people. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the contract with the concessionaire (DNC) is to have at least 1 restaurant open until the final departure. So it strikes me odd that they do not keep at least one place open until 9:00 or so for the frontier flight.

I don’t think anyone needs a five star restaurant to be open 24/7 in the airport. I do think *something* needs to be open until the last flight.

@gopokes you can be “free market” all you want, but since this is 1) a monopoly sponsored by the airport 2) a service provided to a captive traveling public, more care should be given to make sure there are dining options until the last flight leaves.

I just flat don’t understand why some of you get so worked up about overpriced food at a spoke airport. It’s really not that hard to eat before you arrive.

I just flat don’t understand why some of you get so worked up about overpriced food at a spoke airport. It’s really not that hard to eat before you arrive.

I’m not saying the food is good or cheap. I’m saying as long as there is a scheduled departure, there needs to be food options. I flat don’t understand why that is a terrible idea? With your logic there should be no food options in the airport since everyone has the amount of time you do to eat before getting to the airport.

If that is the philosophy for the airport, great. But if it isn’t feasible for a private for profit operator to do it based on weak demand and passenger counts, then the airport should subsidize or operate it themselves. Don’t expect private business to operate at losses.

I can see both sides here because in OKC, you're not captive so it does make sense to eat before you go. But having been on some of those super early flights, it would be a better to eat there. When you get to the airport at 5am, you're not looking to eat breakfast before you leave home. Since you're just gonna sit on your duff for an hour before you board, it's a good time to eat. Oh wait, nothing is open yet. Bummer.

Would i eat there when im coming IN to okc? Probably not though. So there really is only a limited pool of folks to get here. It's those departure fliers stuck after security and not ready to board yet. Since we dont have layovers here, that captive audience just isn't there.

I agree with all of this. One airport that is similar in size as OKC although with fewer passengers per year (~2,000,000) is Manchester, NH (https://www.flymanchester.com/at-the-airport/terminal-map/) (MHT). They have pre-security food options with Dunkin' Donuts and a local pub upstairs near security, and downstairs at baggage claim they have a freestanding kiosk-style Starbucks and a nice lounge/seating area where you can hang out with high top tables, vinyl bench seating and club chairs with ottomans with convenient electrical outlets. They also have an indoor observation area on the top floor that is accessible pre-security with a panoramic view of the apron and the main runway and wooden rocking chairs...pretty great. Overall they do a terrific job with these passenger and guest amenities. If they can do it, we can.

I love flying through MHT. I have family about an hour north of Manchester and so I have used this airport numerous times. I love how quick and easy it is to get in and through the airport. I do feel their selection is better, but I am a DD fan, especially when it comes to air travel. If I must take an early morning flight, I will purposely choose a stop in STL or something closer to OKC just so I can have a better breakfast option.

If that is the philosophy for the airport, great. But if it isn’t feasible for a private for profit operator to do it based on weak demand and passenger counts, then the airport should subsidize or operate it themselves. Don’t expect private business to operate at losses.

Which I don't think we're arguing for... I think people are saying the airport might need to cover a cost to enable one form of sustenance to remain open. The companies have to bid on the service contracts, and opening is part of the contract, and I'm sure the airport could require anything it wants (at a price) in the contract.

I'm a guy that likes to get to the airport relatively early just to get through security. It's nice having food options once you're there to enable a relaxing time before leaving. Especially for the early flights, at least one option open would be great.

If that is the philosophy for the airport, great. But if it isn’t feasible for a private for profit operator to do it based on weak demand and passenger counts, then the airport should subsidize or operate it themselves. Don’t expect private business to operate at losses.

Don’t bid on work if you are going to provide sh-it service. They literally are handed a monopoly by Oklahoma City. The traveling public deserves consistent hours when departures are scheduled.

Don’t bid on work if you are going to provide sh-it service. They literally are handed a monopoly by Oklahoma City. The traveling public deserves consistent hours when departures are scheduled.

You are right, they shouldn’t bid if they knew the data. But to say it is a monopoly suggests there is some great value. I’ve asked if that value has been quantified objectively and professionally? Was real data shared pre-bid?

You are right, they shouldn’t bid if they knew the data. But to say it is a monopoly suggests there is some great value. I’ve asked if that value has been quantified objectively and professionally? Was real data shared pre-bid?

I’m not sure what data is available. But DNC is obviously making enough to justify their existence. I believe they have been the sole food vendor for close to, if not longer than 2 decades.

The entire situation also perpetuates the stereotype of being a second rate city that closes down at (or before) sundown. It seems as a compromise, the requirement could be two restaurants must stay open until 10pm but one way or the other, the coffee shop, at bare minimum, should be open.

The entire situation also perpetuates the stereotype of being a second rate city that closes down at (or before) sundown. It seems as a compromise, the requirement could be two restaurants must stay open until 10pm but one way or the other, the coffee shop, at bare minimum, should be open.And the coffee shop should be open early enough that people on the first flight out at 5:00 AM (I think) have the opportunity to get a cup of coffee. If you go search for it I've had a flight that left after 7:00 AM and the Coffee Bean STILL was not open.

I’m not sure what data is available. But DNC is obviously making enough to justify their existence. I believe they have been the sole food vendor for close to, if not longer than 2 decades.

Do we know the terms of their agreement vs what is offered new vendors? Having been there for that period of time, are they grandfathered into any favorable terms?

Do we know the terms of their agreement vs what is offered new vendors? Having been there for that period of time, are they grandfathered into any favorable terms?

I can’t find the meeting, but it was approved March 2003. Every amendment (new lease, change of concepts, etc.) they extend the contract.

Who or where would be the place to go to officially lodge commentary so the airport folks know the feelings of airport users?

Who or where would be the place to go to officially lodge commentary so the airport folks know the feelings of airport users?

Probably here: https://flyokc.com/airport-contacts

Josh Ryan (who works for the airport, not sure in exactly what capacity, though) is on here, and usually jumps into these discussions, shame he hasn't done that during this recent spate of posts, he'd probably have quite a bit of info about it all.

Who or where would be the place to go to officially lodge commentary so the airport folks know the feelings of airport users?

I monitor the thread for this purpose. Karen and I have used information from it to directly address customer service issues in the airport. We usually have to do a bit of investigating before we contact our vendors.

The best information we get is from users who contact us directly and provide specific information about what they experienced. On this date/time/place, this is what happened. That information can be sent to wrwa@okc.gov and will be addressed by us directly or will be forwarded to the responsible party.

Unfortunately, much of what has been discussed recently has to do with operational matters that cannot be easily addressed here. Your suggestions and complaints are not going unheard though.

Probably here: https://flyokc.com/airport-contacts

Josh Ryan (who works for the airport, not sure in exactly what capacity, though) is on here, and usually jumps into these discussions, shame he hasn't done that during this recent spate of posts, he'd probably have quite a bit of info about it all.

I am the assistant public information & marketing coordinator. I work for Karen Carney.

I can’t find the meeting, but it was approved March 2003. Every amendment (new lease, change of concepts, etc.) they extend the contract.

Amended agreements happen when restaurants are changed, space is renovated, etc. These are not contract extensions. A contract extension is not planned for Delaware North. An RFP will go out before the end of their contract in April 2020. Like any other company, they will have an opportunity to submit a proposal.

Amended agreements happen when restaurants are changed, space is renovated, etc. These are not contract extensions. A contract extension is not planned for Delaware North. An RFP will go out before the end of their contract in April 2020. Like any other company, they will have an opportunity to submit a proposal.

Thanks for the info. I couldn’t find where the contract was renewed between 2003 and now. Surely it wasn’t a 17 year agreement?

Thanks for the info. I couldn’t find where the contract was renewed between 2003 and now. Surely it wasn’t a 17 year agreement?

It wasn't that long ago that airports were doing 30-year agreements with their concessionaires/retail contractors. Things have changed, but the agreements still have to be long enough for the companies to see a return on their investment. More recently, 10-year contracts seem to be the acceptable length. That can give them time to make the money back from restaurant build-outs and other changes they make to the airport's space.

It wasn't that long ago that airports were doing 30-year agreements with their concessionaires/retail contractors. Things have changed, but the agreements still have to be long enough for the companies to see a return on their investment. More recently, 10-year contracts seem to be the acceptable length. That can give them time to make the money back from restaurant build-outs and other changes they make to the airport's space.

Thanks for the info. I meant more that 17 is an odd number.

What is going on with this flight?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA9440/history/20180612/2311Z/KOKC/KOKC

I think we're pretty darn lucky to have both Catch and Josh on here providing information and feedback. I've learned so much from this thread alone.

What is going on with this flight?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA9440/history/20180612/2311Z/KOKC/KOKC

Maybe it got painted here and they're testing or even drying the paint job :tongue:

What is going on with this flight?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA9440/history/20180612/2311Z/KOKC/KOKC

Looks like a maintenance test flight. AAR does heavy maintenance for Alaska. Maintenance/Non revenue flights for most carriers are usually 9000 series flight numbers.

$89 million expansion set to move forward at Will Rogers Airport (http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=528-89-million-expansion-set-to-move-forward-at-Will-Rogers-Airport)

After setting all-time traveler records in 2017 and with summer numbers up more than 10% from the previous year, Will Rogers World Airport is set to move forward with an ambitious and sweeping expansion.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/airport072518a.jpg


OKCTalk was first to report the plans back in 2015 and after a delay, the $89-million project is once again moving forward.

This week, the OKC Airport Trust will vote on a resolution to endorse pursuing $115 million in revenue bonds which will help fund a 5-year capital plan.

Airport spokesperson Karen Carney told OKCTalk that this was in aid of the terminal project which should start construction in early 2019 and last approximately 30 months.

Construction will involve expanding the terminal to the east on three levels and adding 4 new gates. A second expansion phase with an undetermined timeline would ultimately add 7 more gates as the airport continues to explore opportunities to increase the number of carriers and flights.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/airport072518b.jpg


In addition to the new space and gates, a new single security checkpoint is to be constructed and the existing two security areas will be abandoned and the space reallocated in the 2nd level check-in and ticketing area.

The last major airport renovation was well underway when the tragedy of 9/11 struck, causing the airport to hurriedly accommodate new security that has proven to be less than optimum, especially with the continuing rise of passenger traffic.

The new consolidated screening area will be much larger and built to TSA specifications, with the resulting streamlining greatly increasing efficiency, Carney said.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/airport072518f.jpg


The new construction would add also baggage claims on the lower level and a 3rd level observation gallery, which will be a suspended viewing deck in the heart of the terminal providing public access to airfield views and incorporating additional lounge space and exhibits.

OKC-based Frankfurt-Short-Bruza is partnering with Hellmuth Obata & Kassabaum on design, architecture and engineering work.

In a press release, the design calls for “The intergration of public art installations and expansive windows and skylights allowing for more natural light. Interior enhancements of some existing spaces are also plannned included expanded greeter areas and more seating in baggage claim.”



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/airport072518c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/airport072518d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/airport072518h.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/airport072518i.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/airport072518e.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/airport072518g.jpg

I’m extremely excited for this one! Pete do you think OKC could become an international airport in the future or is that absolutely out of the question?

I saw a new airport garage mentioned somewhere. When and where is this thing happening? It is much needed.

I’m extremely excited for this one! Pete do you think OKC could become an international airport in the future or is that absolutely out of the question?

They mention this possibility in their long-term plan and the next phase of the east expansion (the next 7 gates) would be built to accomodate large planes.

Great update to see this keep moving forward.

I'm so glad to see this is finally kicking in to gear. And i'm glad the security point is being looked at again as well. I'm a little disappointed that they are only doing the partial expansion, but i understand the hesitation until there's the solid need. Maybe they can wall those areas off and convert them to some eateries :)

^

When demand dictates, adding the next phase should be pretty straight-forward.

That would not involve the terminal building itself, just extending the east concourse.

London heathrow got its 3rd runway approved, it’s going to take a long time to get built but maybe that’s an international flight we can get. That or Dubai which is basically the international hub for the world.

London heathrow got its 3rd runway approved, it’s going to take a long time to get built but maybe that’s an international flight we can get. That or Dubai which is basically the international hub for the world.

I am thinking more along the lines of Toronto or Mexico City. Europe (aside from Iceland) is probably pie in the sky for a decade, in my opinion.

I am thinking more along the lines of Toronto or Mexico City. Europe (aside from Iceland) is probably pie in the sky for a decade, in my opinion.

Or possibly seasonal resort destinations.

Meant to mention that this new work has a stated goal of "Plan for future international screening".

I am thinking more along the lines of Toronto or Mexico City. Europe (aside from Iceland) is probably pie in the sky for a decade, in my opinion.

Really need a 2 million metro plus to even be in the conversation for long haul. Even then, it’s a very recent development in the international market and it’s a fragmentation that is yet to be proven as sustainable.

Really need a 2 million metro plus to even be in the conversation for long haul. Even then, it’s a very recent development in the international market and it’s a fragmentation that is yet to be proven as sustainable.

well from 2010 census to 2015 estimate shows an increase in metro population of right around 200,000... bringing it up to the 1.4 million range. if that growth has continued, we might be 1.6 to 1.65 million in next census

I think we could handle a once a week minimum to somewhere in Europe, most likely London/Paris. We could draw from Tulsa and Wichita markets too, just like some from here go to Dallas.

I think we could handle a once a week minimum to somewhere in Europe, most likely London/Paris. We could draw from Tulsa and Wichita markets too, just like some from here go to Dallas.

Shoot, I would probably go to London/Paris twice a year if we had non-stop service! The only reason we don't travel to Europe more often is because one basically wastes 2-4 days traveling over there with connections and what not.

IMO what they identify as "phase 2" should actually be phase 3, and the real phase 2 should be $200M for light rail (or dedicated BRT, but preferably light rail) from airport to Santa Fe Station. By the time we need those other 7 gates, we'll need transit, so do that first and get ahead of it.

IMO what they identify as "phase 2" should actually be phase 3, and the real phase 2 should be $200M for light rail (or dedicated BRT, but preferably light rail) from airport to Santa Fe Station. By the time we need those other 7 gates, we'll need transit, so do that first and get ahead of it.

Agree but the city always says “well we had bus service and no one ever used it”. That’s true, but it was also 3 times a day and missed every major time where it would be useful.

Agree. But to the city I say, we have bus service to all sorts of good places in the city that many people don't use, which I can attest to as a frequent bus rider myself. That doesn't mean those routes should go away. Low-utilization of the airport bus is not a good indicator of how a different mode with better connectivity/wayfinding would get used. I mean, the airport bus only serviced the airport 3 times a day I believe (or hourly at best at one point perhaps), and it was neither super clear how to use it once outside, or clearly indicated inside that there was a reliable downtown transit connection.

If an argument can be made that we should build a downtown circulator/TOD streetcar (instead of a proper neighborhood/jobs connecting straight transit line) that will spur growth of the system into a true transit system, then the same argument can be made for airport transit if done right. It's not going to do as much for transit in the beginning, but we NEED it long term. In fact, post new convention center, airport-downtown rapid transit should be a top priority for the chamber IMO. If we can push through a new half-billion dollar CC, we can push through a new half-billion dollar transit connection to that new CC in MAPS 4. Come on chamber, let's see it!

So will there be more food options with this expansion?

I think we could handle a once a week minimum to somewhere in Europe, most likely London/Paris. We could draw from Tulsa and Wichita markets too, just like some from here go to Dallas.

Once a week flights only work in very special circumstances. Frankly, such a service from OKC to anywhere in Europe is a non-starter. OKC has neither the tourist nor business traffic to Europe to support such a service.


Shoot, I would probably go to London/Paris twice a year if we had non-stop service! The only reason we don't travel to Europe more often is because one basically wastes 2-4 days traveling over there with connections and what not.

You're joking right? Those two extra hours you spend connecting via DFW (for example) are the only reason you don't go to Europe more? I'm sorry but that makes literally zero sense. There are umpteen itineraries on multiple airlines that will connect you to Europe with a ~1 hour layover at DFW, ORD, ATL, etc - but somehow that adds up to 2-4 days?

So will there be more food options with this expansion?

Yes but we obviously won't know exactly what until they near completion and announce who they leased space to.

The new construction would add also baggage claims on the lower level and a 3rd level observation gallery, which will be a suspended viewing deck in the heart of the terminal providing public access to airfield views and incorporating additional lounge space and exhibits.

hopefully additional lounge space means more food/drink options vs just more places for chairs.

I am thinking more along the lines of Toronto or Mexico City. Europe (aside from Iceland) is probably pie in the sky for a decade, in my opinion.

YYZ would be a very interesting add. I don't know if we have the ethnic population to support it though. AC does brisk business offering seamless US-YYZ/YVR-intl trips. It wouldn't be that long a flight either, just barely longer than OKC-DTW.

Yes but we obviously won't know exactly what until they near completion and announce who they leased space to.

Would be nice to have at least one restaurant that's open after 6 PM!

Once a week flights only work in very special circumstances. Frankly, such a service from OKC to anywhere in Europe is a non-starter. OKC has neither the tourist nor business traffic to Europe to support such a service.



You're joking right? Those two extra hours you spend connecting via DFW (for example) are the only reason you don't go to Europe more? I'm sorry but that makes literally zero sense. There are umpteen itineraries on multiple airlines that will connect you to Europe with a ~1 hour layover at DFW, ORD, ATL, etc - but somehow that adds up to 2-4 days?

I have never had great experiences connecting in a TX airport, thus I avoid them. That leaves Chicago, Atlanta, and NYC. Chicago is a cluster and the three times I have connected through there were always 3 to 4 hour layovers, not counting the weather delays. I have never flown Delta internationally so I can't comment on what Atlanta is like. As for NYC there is no non-stop to EWR or JFK, thus you spend an entire day flying from OKC to NYC, then the flight to Europe.

Like I said, I would fly more often to Europe if we had our own non-stop service. If i can keep all costs but the flight to Europe itself in OK rather than another state I am all for that. Those flights between NYC and Europe are amazing, since I have family up in the northeast I have often stayed a few days with them before and after my international flight and the trip is more relaxing just driving to one airport and flying non-stop to Europe.

The 2-4 days is accounting the return trip as well, if everything goes smoothly, no weather delays or equipment issues, then you spend 2 days flying (their and back), but should weather or equipment fail it tacks on another day or 2 if you are unlucky.

As for NYC there is no non-stop to EWR or JFK...

But we have UA Ex to EWR.

I frequently connect through MSP to head to Europe, and it’s always gone well for me.

I have never had great experiences connecting in a TX airport, thus I avoid them. That leaves Chicago, Atlanta, and NYC. Chicago is a cluster and the three times I have connected through there were always 3 to 4 hour layovers, not counting the weather delays. I have never flown Delta internationally so I can't comment on what Atlanta is like. As for NYC there is no non-stop to EWR or JFK, thus you spend an entire day flying from OKC to NYC, then the flight to Europe.

Like I said, I would fly more often to Europe if we had our own non-stop service. If i can keep all costs but the flight to Europe itself in OK rather than another state I am all for that. Those flights between NYC and Europe are amazing, since I have family up in the northeast I have often stayed a few days with them before and after my international flight and the trip is more relaxing just driving to one airport and flying non-stop to Europe.

The 2-4 days is accounting the return trip as well, if everything goes smoothly, no weather delays or equipment issues, then you spend 2 days flying (their and back), but should weather or equipment fail it tacks on another day or 2 if you are unlucky.

You've never had a great experience connecting in any TX airport? I find that hard to believe. How many times have you connected through DFW or IAH (just as examples) and what happened? Was there a weather/mechanical delay? Could you not find your connecting gate? I'm sorry but I find such a blanket statement somewhat bizarre, especially given that DFW and IAH are two of the best connected airports in the entire USA.

Chicago is a cluster? Sure, any airport can be a cluster on any given day. Look what happened at DEN last week. Look what happens to the entire NYC area anytime a thunderstorm or blizzard rolls through. I've connected through ORD multiple times and not had more than an hour or two layover, even flying internationally. I've connected through ORD countless times and the vast majority of flights are on time. Is it a cluster when there are IRROPs? Of course, but which hub isn't?

2-4 days - how? An extra flight from OKC to whichever hub you use doesn't add 2 days to your trip. That's not mathematically possible. Flying to Europe and back takes two days of travel regardless of if you have a nonstop or not.

If you said you'd fly to Europe more if Wow Air or Icelandair brought their low fares to OKC, that would be one thing - certainly lower fares incentivize price-conscious flyers to fly when they otherwise wouldn't. But to say that you don't fly to Europe more because it takes an extra 2-4 days to make one connection doesn't make any sense.

But we have UA Ex to EWR.

IAD too - UA serves quite a bit of Europe from IAD. Usually is a long layover given how early the OKC-IAD flight is, but it's still another viable option.

Not to mention OKC-PHL on AA too. Incredible to me that places like Prague and Budapest are now accessible from OKC via one connection.

But we have UA Ex to EWR.

I guess I haven't checked with United enough, mainly because most flights route through IAH.