IIRC, the original Cocina da Mino off of Shields started this trend back in
the 80's and when they opened a bunch of locations, it seems the rest of
the OKC Mexican places followed their lead.
El Charitto provided free corn tortillas, chips and salsa, we called it hot
sauce, in the 60's. They also served nachos. A chip with a slice of
cheddar and a slice of jalapeno that had been heated under the broiler.
Maybe a dozen chips so decorated for $0.75. In the late 50's Arizona
also provided chips and salsa, also called hot sauce, to the patrons.
This was the first time I'd ever experienced a flour tortilla. I remember
traveling on US 66 and stopping at the local restaurants.

I remember that Cafe Ole had the same type of setup at the 58th & May
location before I had ever heard of Cocina de Mino...
OY! I thought you were older than me. Pedro's, we called it Pete's on
about S.W. 55th and S. Shields provided chips and hot sauce with all
meals. In fact, if you only ordered iced tea you'd get chips and hot
sauce. This was in the 60's and 70's.

El Chico, in Shepherd Mall, served chips and sauce from the inception,
which was in the late 60's.

The repulsive cheese sauce, so prevalent in today's Tex-Mex restaurants,
was a creation of the 80's. I think it was because it was served at
baseball parks and football games. To this day I won't eat it.

I honestly am surprised that anyone believes this started in the 80's.

ACK!

But I'm older than most on OKC Talk

Which reminds me of when I heard Ina Garten (The Barefoot Contessa) say on one of her cooking shows that she thought that cilantro tasted like dish soap.

I can relate...most things with cilantro in it taste very bitter to me so I try to avoid it as an ingredient...but there may be different types as the stuff Taco Bueno uses in their Pico doesnt have that bitterness to me at all???


OY! I thought you were older than me. Pedro's, we called it Pete's on
about S.W. 55th and S. Shields provided chips and hot sauce with all
meals. In fact, if you only ordered iced tea you'd get chips and hot
sauce. This was in the 60's and 70's.

El Chico, in Shepherd Mall, served chips and sauce from the inception,
which was in the late 60's.

The repulsive cheese sauce, so prevalent in today's Tex-Mex restaurants,
was a creation of the 80's. I think it was because it was served at
baseball parks and football games. To this day I won't eat it.

I honestly am surprised that anyone believes this started in the 80's.

ACK!

But I'm older than most on OKC Talk

As far back as I can remember, Casa Bonita (1968) and Panchos have always served complimentary chips/salsa/queso. Most places I have been to here and in Texas do at least the chips & salsa. El Chico a few years back started charging 50 cents for 3 flour tortillias (corn were free). But that didn't last too long. Some places charge for queso some don't. Most is worthless crap that does taste like the kind dispensed from a machine at 7-11. The "good stuff" is the kind Bueno & Casa served (made with Velvetta and Rotel), Sopapillias (sp) free or charge vary from place to place.

Cilantro is a, barf, so-called FRESH Mexican ingredient. It's fine as a
very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very sparse ingredient.
However, if you can taste it, it's too much. Therefore it's best not
to ever use it. In fact, if it's a so-called FRESH Mexican ingredient
it's best to not use it in any way, shape or form.

So-called FRESH Mexican is disgusting. Very, very disgusting.

OY! I thought you were older than me. Pedro's, we called it Pete's on
about S.W. 55th and S. Shields provided chips and hot sauce with all
meals. In fact, if you only ordered iced tea you'd get chips and hot
sauce. This was in the 60's and 70's.

El Chico, in Shepherd Mall, served chips and sauce from the inception,
which was in the late 60's.

The repulsive cheese sauce, so prevalent in today's Tex-Mex restaurants,
was a creation of the 80's. I think it was because it was served at
baseball parks and football games. To this day I won't eat it.

I honestly am surprised that anyone believes this started in the 80's.

ACK!

But I'm older than most on OKC Talk
I seem to remember El Chico at Shepherd Mall having it as well but we didn't eat much Mexican food until I was in my teens, which was in the mid 70's (I'm 48). We went to the El Chico at Shepherd Mall or N May or Monterrey House most of the time. I didn't grow up on Tex-Mex like my wife did where it was homemade for them, she does make the best tortillas. That is one thing about regional differences, the flour tortillas here in Colorado seem to be much thinner than the ones that I have had in Oklahoma or Texas, more like corn tortilla thickness. I'm not much of a cilantro fan as well, it tends to be over used to me.

Cilantro is a, barf, so-called FRESH Mexican ingredient. It's fine as a
very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very sparse ingredient.
However, if you can taste it, it's too much. Therefore it's best not
to ever use it. In fact, if it's a so-called FRESH Mexican ingredient
it's best to not use it in any way, shape or form.

So-called FRESH Mexican is disgusting. Very, very disgusting.

I'm just the opposite. I love cilantro, and kind of like garlic, I don't think you can ever have to much.

I seem to recall that studies have been conducted that indicate certain people have a gene related to their sense of taste that makes them extra sensitive to the taste of cilantro (in a negative way). I have been learning to acquire a bit of appreciation and/or tolerance for the flavor. While I'm thinking about it: Steer clear of any "authentic Mexican/Latin/Tex(etc.)-Mex" food that uses Belgian endive as an ingredient. I bought some (it was real pricey) and cooked it just like Jacques Pepin said to and still its bitterness reminded me of rotten cabbage cooked in rancid Brussels Sprout concentrate (another thing I don't think I'll ever eat again =). (so is the "intellectual property tax" on those statements about two-cents?)

OKBBQEA, as much as I wish it weren't so, I have discovered that is is indeed possible to have too much garlic. Darn it.

I'm just the opposite. I love cilantro, and kind of like garlic, I don't think you can ever have to much.

Well I thinkg there is a limit for me but it takes a lot to get there. I think a little cilantro makes everything better, especially mexican dishes. I even think putting some on your scrambled eggs makes them better.

I like cilantro as long as it's not overdone. Roasted garlic can never be overdone to me, but raw garlic can be.

I always liked the real Mexican food to tex-mex and any of it's variants. In fact, as weird as it is, I don't ever see a big difference between so called good tex-mex and bad tex-mex.

Prunepicker,
You're such a child. I didn't care for the pungent aroma of cilantro but have learned that it like other spices/herbs, when used properly (sparingly), can make a good recipe better without even knowing it's in the preparation. I have experimented with salsas and while holding my nose, finely chopped the cilantro and added it to the food processor. Then I made the same salsa without it and darned if the one with cilantro wasn't better. I'm sure one of our chef's, (RadicalModerate comes to mind) can explain this phenomenon. I do know that some other things I don't care for (not talking Mexican recipes now) are called for in some things I like really well. Now, as for cilantro, if somebody uses a lot or a recipe calls for too much, the taste will overpower my taste buds and that turns me off really quick. It still gets back to what an individual likes and sometimes just knowing something is in a recipe turns me off even if I can't taste it. Worms and grasshoppers are good protein, just don't tell me they are in what I am eating.
C. T.

I was a bit overboard on the cilantro thing. My true opinion is if you can't
taste it why use it. I can put up with a little cilantro, in fact I grow it.

In fact, as weird as it is, I don't ever see a big difference between so
called good tex-mex and bad tex-mex.
That's weird. I see it as night and day. There is very little so-called
real Mexican, include Central American, food I can stand. I don't like
fresca at all.

Prunepicker,
OK, this begs the question, if you don't like it why do you grow it? And to answer your question, have you ever used star anise? Could you taste it? I have and no, I couldn't taste it, but it made a lot of difference in the Chinese spare rib stir fry. It adds to the overall quality/taste without being overpowering. My best example is that I can't stand milk, but if I eliminated every thing with milk in it, I would starve. I also don't like mustard, but the best hickory smoked ribs I ever prepared were coated with mustard, then smoked. Not a hint of mustard aroma or taste, but they were so tender. I was about to give up on smoking ribs because they just didn't come out right. Regardless, I understand your feeling about cilantro, I'm an extremely picky eater, but wanted to point out that certain things can contribute without being a major player in a recipe.
C. T.
I was a bit overboard on the cilantro thing. My true opinion is if you can't
taste it why use it. I can put up with a little cilantro, in fact I grow it.

Yes, I've never seen this setup elsewhere but in OKC it seems to be the standard.

Not only free chips and salsa (typical just about everywhere) but also free queso, tortillas and sopapillas.


IIRC, the original Cocina da Mino off of Shields started this trend back in the 80's and when they opened a bunch of locations, it seems the rest of the OKC Mexican places followed their lead.
Now this was before my day, not born yet, but my parents and older brother who was a youngster at the time, have told about eating real Mexican food at a place in Henderson, Texas. There they were served saltine crackers and hot sauce before the entree came. This was in the mid to late 40's.

Sooner8693,
I meant to mention that I was going to El Charitto's in the mid to late 40's and we had hot sauce and chips then, so, Prunepicker is correct but as I said earlier, he is a child. I think I have about ten years on him but we have a lot of common memories about restaurants in the OKC area. I have never been served crackers with hot sauce, so your brother probably is older than me. I'm 69.
C. T.
Now this was before my day, not born yet, but my parents and older brother who was a youngster at the time, have told about eating real Mexican food at a place in Henderson, Texas. There they were served saltine crackers and hot sauce before the entree came. This was in the mid to late 40's.

Prunepicker,
OK, this begs the question, if you don't like it why do you grow it?
As I said, I went overboard on the Cilantro issue. I like it sparingly.

Very sparingly.

In fact only enough to know it's there and that's all. Anything more is
way too much.

As I said, I went overboard on the Cilantro issue. I like it sparingly.

Very sparingly.

In fact only enough to know it's there and that's all. Anything more is
way too much.

Which would be a good way to think about other things in life as well.

I've never really noticed any odor from cilantro...just the extreme bitter taste 99.9% of the time

Is Cilantro Hating Genetic? (http://gizmodo.com/5911387/is-cilantro-hating-genetic)

-M

Hmmm... Maybe I had my mouth washed out with soap so many times as a child that I developed a taste for cilantro. :D

Hmmm... Maybe I had my mouth washed out with soap so many times as a child that I developed a taste for cilantro. :D

Interesting in the comments of that article, haters described it as tasting like soap... I don't get that at all...just extremely bitter...but I guess it might depend on the soap one is used to consuming...LOL

I've never really noticed any odor from cilantro... just the extreme
bitter taste 99.9% of the time
Rub it between your hands and you'll smell it.

Larry OKC,
Just pick up a bunch at the supermarket and smell it. It's a pungent smell.
C. T.

i would say there is a difference between something smelling like soap and tasting like soap...but the next time in the grocery, I will try to remember to do so (smelling it that is)

I absolutely love cilantro, and one of my daughters hates it. I suppose it could be genetic and she just got a different gene. It doesn't taste like soap at all to me, but again, maybe it tastes different if you're averse to it.

i would say there is a difference between something smelling like soap and tasting like soap...

The difference is sassyness.
When I was a young one, Mama's hands often smelled like soap. Iffin I got too sassy, they tasted that way too.

I absolutely love cilantro, and one of my daughters hates it. I suppose it could be genetic and she just got a different gene. It doesn't taste like soap at all to me, but again, maybe it tastes different if you're averse to it.

I thought I remembered seeing just such a study, and here it is (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/20/cilantro-aversion-gene-study_n_1901124.html). Not a definitive study, but some sense of a link to genetics and a dislike of the taste.

A reasonable substitute for Cilantro (TV chef pronunciation: "cee-lahn-trrro") is Italian Flat Leaf Parsley sprinkled with ground corriander.
(and extra Serranos . . . for "Sassyness"-- Thanx 'n' a Tip o' the Toque to Phil Hartmann =)

Coriander is the seed of cilantro.

Cilantro is the bane of my existance. Every Houston Tex/Mex place has what amounts to tomato juice with huge twigs of cilantro in it. Yuk. I've never noticed cilantro in Okie-Mex.

Cilantro is the bane of my existance. Every Houston Tex/Mex place has
what amounts to tomato juice with huge twigs of cilantro in it. Yuk. I've
never noticed cilantro in Okie-Mex.
Cilantro is in most Okie-Mex salsas but thankfully it's used very
moderately (moderately is fine for everything but politics).

Cilantro is the bane of my existance. Every Houston Tex/Mex place has what amounts to tomato juice with huge twigs of cilantro in it. Yuk. I've never noticed cilantro in Okie-Mex.

Since it became a trend a couple of years ago, it seems hard to avoid it. But we do have a kajillion places here and I have by no means been to all of them, so we may frequent different establishments. Many of the grocery store varieties proudly have it on their labels and those that don't, check the list of ingredients. It has been my experience every item that I have purchased that had a bitter after taste to it, sure enough, cilantro was in it. Those that don't, it isn't. On the Border uses it extensively and is one of the reasons I rarely go there even with coupons, specials and it being located blocks from my apt. Noticed that El Chico started putting it in their salsa but you could usually avoid it and they now have the option of their "classic", non-cilantro style (but you have to ask for it).

That all said, went to a Mexican place that is owned/operated by the folks that used to run Montery-Jacks (one of my moms favorites) over in Del City just off Tinker Diagonal and 15th Street. Victor's Chile Mercado, Some of the food items weren't the typical, they had mexican mashed potatoes (don't bother) but the barracco beans had excellent flavor to them. I had the 3 enchilada platter (1 @ beef, cheese, chicken) and they were all good sized and tasty. The only drawback was service. Seemed to be very short on wait staff and the poor girl who waited on us never brought some items out (the other waiter took care of it). She seemed only able to bring out one item at a time, requiring multiple trips. While we were waiting for items to come, the food did get cold. Have another groupon so he will definitely give them another shot. Prices were reasonable too.

... Since it [cilantro] became a trend a couple of years ago, it seems hard
to avoid it.
I agree. Back in the day, i.e 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's, cilantro was
virtually non existent. I think it's supposed to be considered a "fresh"
ingredient. That's a ruse because cilantro is no more fresh than spoiled
mild.

Good grief.

We would all do better if cilantro wasn't used at all. And even though I can
tolerate it in small, very small, amounts.

I LOVE cilantro! I'll eat it by itself! The more the better IMO!

People who love the stuff REALLY REALLY love it. People who hate it REALLY REALLY vehemently hate it. Some say it's genetic but there is no proof yet. I'm just glad my taste buds love the stuff.

Personally, I like cilantro in my Mexican food and salsa. We grow it in our garden and add it all the time.

There used to be a tiny Mexican restaurant near SW 24 and Harvey and they had the best $1 soft tacos with fresh cilantro and they were my absolute favorite.

These days, if we want heavy 'cheap' Mexican food we go to San Marcos on N. May (to me its what Chelino's used to be). If its dinner time and we want something a little nicer we go to Midtown's 1492.

I really like cilantro with Mexican food but my wife and her entire family HATE it in anything and they are lovers of spicy foods.

Now this was before my day, not born yet, but my parents and older brother who was a youngster at the time, have told about eating real Mexican food at a place in Henderson, Texas. There they were served saltine crackers and hot sauce before the entree came. This was in the mid to late 40's.

There's a place in Fayetteville, AR that does this. Too strange. It's not a Mexican place. It's steaks and ribs. We tried them, but won't ever do it again.

+1 for San Marcos...but I go to their first restaurant on SW 59th & Youngs. They have that family run atmosphere that Cosina de Mino and Chelino's used to have when they first opened.

Taco truck choice has to be Taqueria Sanchez at NW 10th & Tulsa.

Something just occurred to me after reviewing 99 posts on this topic (many of which aver that there are very few "Real Mexican" restaurants in OKC/almost everything is Tex-Mex or Okie-Mex): Don't people who live in Mexico eat "Mexican Food" everyday regardless of what is it or how it is prepared? Except for when they go out to an "American" restaurant? And if they went to an "American" restaurant, would it be more like McDonald's, Red Lobster, Ann's Chicken Fry, or Cattleman's Cafe? Just a thought (having just watched Martha Steward cook a delicious, "Mediterranian" version, of Chicken and Veggies en Papillote). Carry on. =)

P.S.: I know just what you mean about the "family run atmosphere" at both Cocina de Mino* and Chelino's when they first began the climb up the ladder to Local Culinary Notariety. I sort of still feel that way about Casa Perico.

*Cosina de Mino is a new angle on a concept restaurant, down by Classen Curve, that will feature perfectly shaped triangular tortilla chips served on triangular plates in a triangular building. think about it. or not. =)

LOL I've wondered about what people in Mexico eat on a daily basis.

LOL I've wondered about what people in Mexico eat on a daily basis.
A former student of mine was Mexican and he was a fan of Abel's
(pronounced Ahh-bels). However, he mentioned that his Mom made Fresca
cheese and he loved it. I believe that's one thing a typical meal will have.
They also eat Nopal, or prickly pear, cactus in salad. Of course, tortillas
are a staple.

Have you ever been to the place in Bryant Square, on 2nd facing north (Los Alcos or somesuch)? Every time we go (lunch) we swear it's the last time, mainly because of the service. Food is ok-2-good. The lunch crowd consists of all sorts including a heavy presence of laborers of Hispanic descent, every time we've been there.

Ted's (lunch), on the other hand, is filled with WASPS; parking lot devoid of work trucks.

Ted's (lunch), on the other hand, is filled with WASPS; parking lot devoid
of work trucks.
I won't eat at Ted's again unless someone is buying. It's not worth it.

So . . . I guess the true measure of the authenticity of how good a [mexican] restaurant is has finally gone full circle to that trope of the 50's: "You can tell how good a restaraunt is by the number of trucks parked outside." Therefore, it follows, naturally, that if there are a bunch of Taco Trucks in the parking lot it must be EXTRA good . . . Doesn't it? =)

I'm not going to go back through the thread but has anyone posted about Tacos Don Nacho's?

The pictures dont do it justice, i went the other week and it was great. Right over by hobby lobby offices. Get there early because it is packed at lunch.

Tacos don Nacho - Suburban Southside - Oklahoma City | Urbanspoon (http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/46/1436496/restaurant/Suburban-Southside/Tacos-don-Nacho-Oklahoma-City)

I agree with you. It is clean, affordable and the food is great.

We've been talking about Mexican food. Primarily Tex-Mex. I absolutely love
Tex-Mex. However, I can't stand the so-called "Fresh" Mexican food. What's
so fresh about a salad with a smattering of beef or chicken? And not to
mention that incredibly bad cheese they call "fresca"? Is there anything as
nasty? I mean it. Vomit has a fresher taste. Puke.

Gimme good ol' American Tex-Mex any day of the week. That so-called
Fresh Mexican is incredibly putrid. Barf.

LOL I've wondered about what people in Mexico eat on a daily basis.

There are lots of regional dishes in Mexico. Some of it is excellent, and some takes getting used to. I've had many great meals at some really fine restaurants in Mexico City especially.

Here, the one restaurant that tried to serve good authentic Mexican food was Cafe del Sol at Lake Hefner, but OKC didn't support it well. It was good, but not enough cheesy sauce and goo for here.

I think some of the little markets on SW 44th have good food.

Overall, I really like 1492. That opinion might be influenced by their premium Margaritas though.

I don't believe we have a truly great Mexican restaurant yet. We have many solid to very good options. The field is wide open for a Rick Bayless-style gourmet Mexican restaurant. Adobe Cafe was very, very good when it was in Moore; when it made the move to N. Shartel it didn't quite capture the same ambience. But it was very close to being outstanding.

We may need to import a serious Mexican restaurateur to pull this off, but I think OKC is clearly hungry for a five-star Mexican concept.

What I would like to see is the following five restaurants in OKC:

1. One out-of-the-park Tex-Mex restaurant. Mouthwatering, home-cooked Tex-Mex. NOT OKIE-MEX! We need that.
2. One high-concept, well-executed gourmet interior Mexican concept that is a true "destination restaurant."
3. One funky, Mexican-inspired restaurant that is hip and cutting edge with outstanding food quality (need not be "high end").
4. One inexpensive, hip burrito place that expands on the Chipotle offerings. I'm thinking a California-style place.
5. One out-of-this-world New Mexican-style restaurant, in the classic Santa Fe / Taos Northern New Mexican ouvre.

So far, we only have Green Chile Kitchen, which is quite good for the New Mexican style, but the menu is somewhat limited and it's in Yukon! There's a lot of room to expand our options in the Mexican department in OKC.

I should add that I enjoy going to Iguana Grill, but the food, while good, could be better. I also like Big Truck Tacos a great deal.

We've been talking about Mexican food. Primarily Tex-Mex. I absolutely love
Tex-Mex. However, I can't stand the so-called "Fresh" Mexican food. What's
so fresh about a salad with a smattering of beef or chicken? And not to
mention that incredibly bad cheese they call "fresca"? Is there anything as
nasty? I mean it. Vomit has a fresher taste. Puke.

Gimme good ol' American Tex-Mex any day of the week. That so-called
Fresh Mexican is incredibly putrid. Barf.

I don't know what to say to this other than I wish you would accompany me on a food tour. I might be able to change your mind on some things. Sorry you've had some bad experiences.

3. One funky, Mexican-inspired restaurant that is hip and cutting edge with outstanding food quality (need not be "high end").
We miss Torchy's Tacos that we went to in Austin, it started out as a food trailer. They have started expanding in Texas. We still haven't found a similar place here in Denver.
Torchy's Tacos (http://www.torchystacos.com/)


4. One inexpensive, hip burrito place that expands on the Chipotle offerings. I'm thinking a California-style place.
Another Denver based burrito place (Chipotle is based in Denver), Illegal Pete's has expansion plans to other states.
Illegal Pete's (http://www.illegalpetes.com/)

I don't know what to say to this other than I wish you would accompany me on a food tour. I might be able to change your mind on some things. Sorry you've had some bad experiences.

Braver man than I. Last person I'd want on a food tour is someone who manages to repeatedly spew references to vomit and puke into their communications.

I don't know what to say to this other than I wish you would accompany me
on a food tour. I might be able to change your mind on some things. Sorry
you've had some bad experiences.
I'm ready. Just tell me when.

There are lots of regional dishes in Mexico. Some of it is excellent, and some takes getting used to. I've had many great meals at some really fine restaurants in Mexico City especially.

Here, the one restaurant that tried to serve good authentic Mexican food was Cafe del Sol at Lake Hefner, but OKC didn't support it well. It was good, but not enough cheesy sauce and goo for here.

I think some of the little markets on SW 44th have good food.

Overall, I really like 1492. That opinion might be influenced by their premium Margaritas though.

Thank you for that, but I still wonder what they eat in the mornings, at lunch, and dinner. Breakfast tacos, quesadillas and burritos, respectively? Waffles, roast beef sandwiches and fried chicken?

No disrespect intended, I'm just ignorant.

Thank you for that, but I still wonder what they eat in the mornings, at lunch,
and dinner. Breakfast tacos, quesadillas and burritos, respectively? Waffles,
roast beef sandwiches and fried chicken?

No disrespect intended, I'm just ignorant.
For breakfast there's something called Megas (eggs) and it's served with
tortilla chips and salsa. Beans and tortilla are eaten, too.

Many of the restaurants in the Austin area serve a Mexican breakfast and most have migas. We have missed the Mexican breakfast places down there, a breakfast burrito (while some are good) is just not a proper substitute. We make breakfast tacos every so often since there isn't a bunch of places to go by and pick some up.

My wife said when growing up (in West Texas) they had homemade tortillas with every meal just like we had bread with almost every meal. The tortillas here tend to be thinner than those in OKC or Austin.

Thank you for that, but I still wonder what they eat in the mornings, at lunch, and dinner. Breakfast tacos, quesadillas and burritos, respectively? Waffles, roast beef sandwiches and fried chicken?

No disrespect intended, I'm just ignorant.

Traditionally, tortillas and beans with almost every meal, generally. Breakfast will have eggs served one way or another (Huevos Rancheros and Migas are common). Spicy cuisine is normal at all times, with various chiles. Lost of long-cooked soups and stews are common. A lot of our tex-mex did come from Mexico, but it looks differently (corn tortillas rather than flour, for one).

That said, the way the world is today, they have many of the same food options that we do, so it's not rare to see more American style meals in Mexico now.

Many of the restaurants in the Austin area serve a Mexican breakfast and
most have migas.
Migas is was I was meaning! Austin is where I first experienced Mexican
breakfast in the 70's. There was one place that was called the Bakery
and Sir Doug of the Sir Douglas Quintet was there almost daily. Another
place was George's and the Arroyo.

So I'm really curious about Cafe do Brazil and 1492.
Let me know the results of your culinary expedition. Please.
I'm a big believer in balancing both sides of The Culinary Experience Equation.
Like, I would really be P.O.'d (metaphorically speaking, without puking for no good reason) if Ingrid's started serving wraps in an attempt to be "trendy".
No?