If the government doesn't enter the retail space market, then we simply have a parking garage. I tend to like garages that serve more than one purpose, but the location of this one does make me question whether retail is really an effective use of space. However, regardless, this design doesn't bother me. I have yet to see a parking garage that impresses me. Perhaps there are some out there, but I've not seen them. So, acceptable is fine, as far as I'm concerned.

I had an interesting conversation today. I'd like to read the downtown housing and retail studies. It could be very possible that we could shoot ourselves in the foot by adding retail and housing on this project before Deep Deuce and MidTown have had a chance to grow large enough to sustain any retail within the CBD. An interesting perspective that made me stop and think.

A good placeholder for the retail space in this project could be city officers, specifically permitting office space. So citizens wouldn't have to go up 8 floors for everything next door.

I don't think that too much development is going to hurt downtown.

I had an interesting conversation today. I'd like to read the downtown housing and retail studies. It could be very possible that we could shoot ourselves in the foot by adding retail and housing on this project before Deep Deuce and MidTown have had a chance to grow large enough to sustain any retail within the CBD. An interesting perspective that made me stop and think.

A good placeholder for the retail space in this project could be city officers, specifically permitting office space. So citizens wouldn't have to go up 8 floors for everything next door.

Honestly, we have this problem already and I don't think this project will affect those areas much. I think the big problem is this "grand boulevard" fantasy the mayor has worked so hard on. I think that more than anything that is going to suck potential retail density out of the emerging districts. This is actually close enough to serve midtown in some ways.

I think at the end of the day, the city feels they are addressing a logistical need with a parking garage and if that is going to happen no matter what, then I welcome any attempt to include interaction with people on the street as opposed to permanently creating a void of half a block on Main.

This parking garage was designed in 2010 by AHMM, its called Stratford Car Park and its located in London, is it just me, does this project look like TAP's design? Too much like it if you ask me, hmmmmmmmm.

Stratford Car Park AHMM - ALLFORD HALL MONAGHAN MORRIS (http://www.ahmm.co.uk/projectDetails/94/Stratford-Car-Park)

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This parking garage was designed in 2010 by AHMM, its called Stratford Car Park and its located in London, is it just me, does this project look like TAP's design? Too much like it if you ask me, hmmmmmmmm.

No, except for the colored level markings and size, it's totally different: see, the cars are driving on the wrong side of the street in picture 2.

This parking garage was designed in 2010 by AHMM, its called Stratford Car Park and its located in London, is it just me, does this project look like TAP's design? Too much like it if you ask me, hmmmmmmmm.

Stratford Car Park AHMM - ALLFORD HALL MONAGHAN MORRIS (http://www.ahmm.co.uk/projectDetails/94/Stratford-Car-Park)

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Wow, that does look oddly similar. Nevertheless, this design is growing on me little by little.

That's the same architectural firm that did Level.

Wade Scaramucci (son of Avis of Nonna's and Bricktown fame) works for them.

nm

This parking garage was designed in 2010 by AHMM, its called Stratford Car Park and its located in London, is it just me, does this project look like TAP's design? Too much like it if you ask me, hmmmmmmmm.

Stratford Car Park AHMM - ALLFORD HALL MONAGHAN MORRIS (http://www.ahmm.co.uk/projectDetails/94/Stratford-Car-Park)

Oh well, of all things a similar one being in London is the least of our concerns.

I like it a lot, when will this start?

I like it a lot, when will this start?

I agree. I hope it will start soon

Honestly I feel the Devon garage is as nice to look at as any of those, so why can't we just replicate that, plus it will fit with structures to the east and (eventually maybe) south.

Kc!

I would agree with most of those. But, I don't dislike the design for the OKC garage. It reminds me a bit of #14, although not quite as artistic.

Honestly I feel the Devon garage is as nice to look at as any of those, so why can't we just replicate that, plus it will fit with structures to the east and (eventually maybe) south.

Not a bad idea - but I think the design will turn out ok. There are several ideas in Sid's photos I would like to see considered in the future especially the Chicago one with the vertical wind turbines.

I may be in the minority here, but I'm quite excited about this project. Because

a) unlike other speculative stuff, this is "for certain" going to happen
b) it should be going up fairly soon
c) it will have a big (and positive, imo) impact on that section of downtown

I'm ready to see some cranes in action!

Me too. Just tossing out some fodder for discussion. I do wish that ground floor retail was going to at least be available for future use. Other than that, I'm ready.

Isn't the ground floor planned to be retail? Unless I am misunderstanding something.

I think Larry Nichols has a good point about the inability of leasing some of these ground floor parking garage retail spaces. They were considering possibly using the spaces instead for some of the city's service desks, like the permit office.

Of course this wouldn't be a problem if the ground floor spaces were part of an attractive development.


I may be in the minority here, but I'm quite excited about this project. Because

a) unlike other speculative stuff, this is "for certain" going to happen
b) it should be going up fairly soon
c) it will have a big (and positive, imo) impact on that section of downtown

I'm ready to see some cranes in action!

You're definitely right about your reasoning. It is for certain going to be a blight fairly soon, and it will have a big impact on that section of downtown...sadly

It is for certain going to be a blight fairly soon, and it will have a big impact on that section of downtown...sadly

Why do you feel this way?

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/easel/images/galleries/025329_Screen_Shot_2012-10-12_at_2.55.14_PM.png
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/garage3.jpg

The big difference is that we will have these ugly elevator towers on the corners facing City Hall. They wouldn't even be so hideous if they didn't project out, which I can't stand. What will end up getting built on this block will look a LOT more like the Sheridan/Walker garage than the first garage. I am even shocked that TAP wants the defining element to be projecting elevator towers...how could an architect allow function to bastardize form.

And it's a huge shame because this is the really cool site we're talking about:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kdvmEJjw1AQ/T-a-rgmBZYI/AAAAAAAABoM/yIUnWnbGv5Y/s1600/2012-06-23+17.24.13

Here is a parking garage in a very historic section of downtown Cleveland that I walk past several times a day. THIS (http://www.studiorfa.com/commercial/515euclid/index.htm) is a very well-done garage, and the structural supports were actually designed to allow a future addition of residential floors.

http://www.studiorfa.com/commercial/515euclid/slides/p_0003.jpg

I guess you and I just have distinctly different tastes, which is cool. My thoughts are I would definitely love to see something "cooler" than a parking garage go up on this site, but if a garage is going up, I don't see the problem with this one. In fact, the more I look at the proposed design, the more it grows on me. I like TAP's proposal better than anything I saw in the Atlantic link you posted, except for the one in Cincinnati. I thought that was quite cool.

I guess you and I just have distinctly different tastes, which is cool. My thoughts are I would definitely love to see something "cooler" than a parking garage go up on this site, but if a garage is going up, I don't see the problem with this one. In fact, the more I look at the proposed design, the more it grows on me. I like TAP's proposal better than anything I saw in the Atlantic link you posted, except for the one in Cincinnati. I thought that was quite cool.

I would be okay if the elevator towers didn't project... like the 1970s urban renewal parking garage that this appears to be. I'm even okay with diversifying building materials in the facade for the elevator tower, I just don't think it should look like a separate part. That is fugly to the nth degree

I think the design is fine, especially for a smaller structure and one that has no direct corner exposure.

It will be closely book-ended by two other buildings and thus not that noticeable.

As long as there is retail on the ground level -- or some sort of shorter-term placeholder -- I think this will be just fine. There really is only so much you can expect from a parking garage.

I think the way the elevators are positioned it will make for a nice view going up and down. I have never disliked the design but I like it more and more every time I see it. Besides, the most important part is the first 20 feet anyhow. If it is retail or office space, it doesn't matter, just so long as it isn't 300 feet of blank walls. And Pete is correct about this being a mid-block garage - which is the way it is supposed to be done anyhow. A parking garage should never be built at a corner. Corner space is far to valuable to be wasted on parking.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kdvmEJjw1AQ/T-a-rgmBZYI/AAAAAAAABoM/yIUnWnbGv5Y/s1600/2012-06-23+17.24.13

I wonder what the folks in the Hightower with these window views are going to think of concrete going in feet from their windows.

I wonder what the folks in the Hightower with these window views are going to think of concrete going in feet from their windows.

Hey, I can see my car?

They probably won't be thrilled. Not much can be done.

Most of the garages posted in this thread look ugly as balls to me. I don't really like any of them. The one they're proposing here doesn't excite me, but I guess it's okay. It's better than some of the "good" ones that people posted above. The thing is we're just looking at a rendering and so it's tough to tell whether it will look cool or not.

I wonder what the folks in the Hightower with these window views are going to think of concrete going in feet from their windows.

Not to get too far off topic, but I was wondering the same thing about the rooms with windows on the east side of the Hampton with the HGI going in directly next door...

It's interesting, in that although the design is definitely contemporary, I get an art deco vibe when I look at it. The symmetry is part of it, I think. If that was intentional, then I like the blend of contemporary with our traditional art deco downtown design.

I think the design is fine, especially for a smaller structure and one that has no direct corner exposure.

It will be closely book-ended by two other buildings and thus not that noticeable.

As long as there is retail on the ground level -- or some sort of shorter-term placeholder -- I think this will be just fine. There really is only so much you can expect from a parking garage.

The problem with low expectations for a parking garage is that the Alliance and McDermid set this project up for high standards to justify using THIS site for parking.

True but it seems time is of the essence here and I hope that means Devon is working on something for across the street.

Remember, many of the city employees that work at 500 Main (Preftakes block) park in the City-owned lot just behind it. If the City is working with Devon to redevelop that block, it probably means moving those parkers to this new garage, at least until Devon has finished the new project.

The urgency of all this tells me something much bigger is brewing.

True but it seems time is of the essence here and I hope that means Devon is working on something for across the street.

Remember, many of the city employees that work at 500 Main (Preftakes block) park in the City-owned lot just behind it. If the City is working with Devon to redevelop that block, it probably means moving those parkers to this new garage, at least until Devon has finished the new project.

The urgency of all this tells me something much bigger is brewing.

Very interesting. I like your line of reasoning there.

This may all just be wishful thinking on our part. But you may be onto something. That certainly sounds very logical.

Ask yourself: What is the rush for this garage?

Yes, downtown needs more parking in general but the primary areas of need are in the middle & eastern sections of the CBD, not on the western edge. Why are they rushing on expanding the Century Center over this site?

And of all the proposed parking garage locations, many were in the western area which indicates they anticipate substantial need there in the near future.

True but it seems time is of the essence here and I hope that means Devon is working on something for across the street.

Remember, many of the city employees that work at 500 Main (Preftakes block) park in the City-owned lot just behind it. If the City is working with Devon to redevelop that block, it probably means moving those parkers to this new garage, at least until Devon has finished the new project.

The urgency of all this tells me something much bigger is brewing.

I think this is a wishful canard, no offense Pete as you know how much I respect your insider knowledge. This new garage is urgent due to the strain we already know is on the parking system due to unloading so many garages with so much corporate expansion simultaneously.

I anticipate the new arts district development boom will have additional parking demands.This district is going to be BIG if you consider the boundary of central park, boulevard, elementary school, Stage Center site, Preftakes block, Devon, Bicentennial Park/OKCMOA, and HOPEFULLY some arts-related development for the Arts District..ha

Perhaps... We shall soon see.

I will say the suspense is really beginning to drive me crazy.

item 5a on the OCURA agenda is a request for proposals for the redevelopment on top of the new yet to be build parking garage for housing

item 5a on the OCURA agenda is a request for proposals for the redevelopment on top of the new yet to be build parking garage for housing

Yes, will be interesting to see if they get many/any responses.

I hope so. That may be the only thing to rescue this project. I think even the current design would be suddenly phenomenal with housing added on top.

I'm really impressed with the new version of OCURA, the Economic Development Trust and Kathy O'Connor in particular.

Looking forward to great things to come... Especially if they can get their hands on First National.

I'm really impressed with the new version of OCURA, the Economic Development Trust and Kathy O'Connor in particular.

Looking forward to great things to come... Especially if they can get their hands on First National.

Agree. OCURA has moved in the right direction. This is a game changer for OKC.

Very good. What's the deadline for proposals?

I'm really impressed with the new version of OCURA, the Economic Development Trust and Kathy O'Connor in particular.

Looking forward to great things to come... Especially if they can get their hands on First National.

I'll third or fourth this as well, since I wasn't fast enough to second it. However, the new competent OCURA still needs to demand better of their architects. It was TAP and McDermid that totally turned in embarrassing work on this one.

Also, why is this thread still in Other Urban Development?

I'll third or fourth this as well, since I wasn't fast enough to second it. However, the new competent OCURA still needs to demand better of their architects. It was TAP and McDermid that totally turned in embarrassing work on this one.

You have quite the flair for the dramatic. Embarrassing work? Hardly. I've seen much, much worse. Randy Hogan does embarrassing work.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kdvmEJjw1AQ/T-a-rgmBZYI/AAAAAAAABoM/yIUnWnbGv5Y/s1600/2012-06-23+17.24.13

I wonder what the folks in the Hightower with these window views are going to think of concrete going in feet from their windows.

That side of the building will have a gap, the four story annex will buffer the Hightower (unless they plan to tear it down, which I don't think they do). Also, the west side windows are for the most part, bathrooms and reception areas. What most Hightower folks are thinking is what a pain in the butt it will be during construction and how nice it will be to have covered parking thereafter. That's my guess anyway.

If the residences get built and someone from Hightower moves in they will say, "I love walking to work and save a small fortune every month in gasoline." Atleast that is what I would say.

I know of one group who relocated to The Hightower about 2 years ago because they were expecting there to be a lot of new development in that part of town. I immagine they're excited to see anything start to move over there.

You have quite the flair for the dramatic. Embarrassing work? Hardly. I've seen much, much worse. Randy Hogan does embarrassing work.

Then I can say you must have low standards

Then I can say you must have low standards

Haha, okay? While the garage may not be your personal favorite, it's hardly embarrassing. Please carry on with your dramatic hyperbole and criticizing my "standards."

Walked through the area last night to see the new sculpture at City Hall. Even though it is a parking garage it will really make that part of Main Street an impressive corridor. It's too bad that the buildings to the south are mostly abandoned, and is a frequent subject of possible demolition (mystery tower speculation thread).

It's looking very likely that we will get housing here, so this may be a good project after all. This project being an attractive addition to an important area is completely contingent on that housing.

Interesting read about a parking garage in SF that will probably garner some of the same reactions seen in this thread:

Mission Bay garage's architectural edge - SFGate (http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Mission-Bay-garage-s-architectural-edge-4031173.php)

http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/16/16/33/3729109/3/628x471.jpg

The illumination makes a significant difference there, I like that, but I can also see where it might not look so cool in a few years.

My tune is remaining optimistic on this project however as a residential component is being pursued that I think will significantly improve the site aesthetics.

Today a $19 million building permit was issued for this structure.

It's listed as "non-residential" so perhaps they rejected the one proposal for apartments that was submitted?


We'll know for sure at next week's OCURA meeting.

The illumination makes a significant difference there, I like that, but I can also see where it might not look so cool in a few years.

I agree. I think it's a better concept, but it seemed to be from the same school as the Main Street one. I'm sure someone more educated in design than myself could make the case that they are entirely different, but to this layman, there is some similarity in aesthetic.

IMO, any attempt to make a garage not look like a garage is a good thing, but if all garages begin to look like this, the defenders' (of which I am one, thought not enthusiastically) best arguments get watered down some.

Today a $19 million building permit was issued for this structure.

It's listed as "non-residential" so perhaps they rejected the one proposal for apartments that was submitted?


We'll know for sure at next week's OCURA meeting.

Are you saying there was only 1 proposal to add residential?

I know there was at least one... Should have worded that differently.

Lackmeyer was alluding to plural developers?


I agree. I think it's a better concept, but it seemed to be from the same school as the Main Street one. I'm sure someone more educated in design than myself could make the case that they are entirely different, but to this layman, there is some similarity in aesthetic.

IMO, any attempt to make a garage not look like a garage is a good thing, but if all garages begin to look like this, the defenders' (of which I am one, thought not enthusiastically) best arguments get watered down some.

This is also in a former warehouse/dock district in SF, not their historic civic center.