Any updates on the OnCue slated for the far edge of NW OKC at 192nd and HWY 74 (Portland) in Deer Creek?

Any updates on the OnCue slated for the far edge of NW OKC at 192nd and HWY 74 (Portland) in Deer Creek?

There planning docs have been approved but I've yet to see them file for a building permit.

There's a bunch of dirt work going on adjacent to the OnCue at 33rd and Kelly in Edmond. No signs or anything but they're really tearing something up right a long the building's drive-thru.

There's a bunch of dirt work going on adjacent to the OnCue at 33rd and Kelly in Edmond. No signs or anything but they're really tearing something up right a long the building's drive-thru.

It may be a kitchen remodel, as they have recently filed building permits at a bunch of their locations.

Thank you, Pete. That would make sense given how close to the building they are working.

Pete's post in the Half thread about a new OnCue going in just to the south of that development made me curious as to how many new locations are still in the pipeline across the Metro. I came up with the below list, are there any that I'm missing?

Grand/I-35
I-40/Peebly
NE 63rd/Kelley
NW 13th/Western
NW 192nd/SH-74
SE 15th/I-35
SW 15th/I-44
SW 29th/Sara
United Founders/May
Wilshire/US-77

The property at the southeast corner of NW 192nd/Portland was just sold to OnCue.18376

There's already an OnCue just two miles south. Wonder what this is all about.

There's already an OnCue just two miles south. Wonder what this is all about.

It's on the opposite side of an incredibly busy road, which is a big deal to c-stores.

Look no further than the four OnCue's on NW Expressway, starting from the west: northside (Kilpatrick), southside (Wilshire), northside (Portland), southside (Blackwelder).

It's on the opposite side of an incredibly busy road, which is a big deal to c-stores.

Look no further than the four OnCue's on NW Expressway, starting from the west: northside (Kilpatrick), southside (Wilshire), northside (Portland), southside (Blackwelder).

Hadn't thought of it that way. Makes sense.

Even if their gas prices aren't the best, they're one if the few places that still have free air.

Hadn't thought of it that way. Makes sense.

Even if their gas prices aren't the best, they're one if the few places that still have free air.

They have Top Tier gas plus no-ethanol offerings, so the prices are right on par for me.

OnCue is acquiring property on the SW corner of NW 122nd and MacArthur:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oncue101423a.jpg

Interesting that OnCue and others are still rapidly expanding with fuel stations, when it seems that in about a decade the entire infrastructure model will be forced to change.

https://cnb.cx/3skhkqt

Interesting that OnCue and others are still rapidly expanding with fuel stations, when it seems that in about a decade the entire infrastructure model will be forced to change.

https://cnb.cx/3skhkqt

It does make me worry about the long-term impact on OKC.

It's not just OnCue, but Casey's, 7-11, QT, eExpress and some others. We must have added 100 large-scale gas stations in just the last 5 years or so.

I know that these places sell lots more than gas, and I know they can add charging stations, but you need a different type of facility because the wait is so much longer. More lounge- and restuarant-like, not just somewhere you blow through to grab something to drink on your way back to the car.

Do they own the land to the left in the picture? These seems like a unusable shape of land for what they normally build. (Hard to tell actual size of the lot)

Do they own the land to the left in the picture? These seems like a unusable shape of land for what they normally build. (Hard to tell actual size of the lot)

Not yet.

I suspect it's under contract or they are actively working on it.

Interesting that OnCue and others are still rapidly expanding with fuel stations, when it seems that in about a decade the entire infrastructure model will be forced to change.

https://cnb.cx/3skhkqt

i'm also so shocked every time i see these go in, and they are putting in more and more food, and even locations to sit now, but still no charging stations that would guarantee people are going to be there for awhile and use those new facilities.

The area to the left is a tag agency among other things. The area directly south of the red line running through the parking lot is Scissorrtail tattoo, a jewelry store, cbd, etc. Casey’s is caddy corner and a 7/11 is a few blocks further north.

It does make me worry about the long-term impact on OKC.

It's not just OnCue, but Casey's, 7-11, QT, eExpress and some others. We must have added 100 large-scale gas stations in just the last 5 years or so.

I know that these places sell lots more than gas, and I know they can add charging stations, but you need a different type of facility because the wait is so much longer. More lounge- and restuarant-like, not just somewhere you blow through to grab something to drink on your way back to the car.

On the other hand, it seems very possible that electric cars aren't going to truly take off in this part of the country until the current 20-30 minute charging time is reduced by an additional 50%. Can't speak for everyone, but I know this is a dealbreaker for me personally at the moment. And once you get it down to 10-15 minutes, you're really not looking at anything too different than the current length of a gas station stop.

On the other hand, it seems very possible that electric cars aren't going to truly take off in this part of the country until the current 20-30 minute charging time is reduced by an additional 50%. Can't speak for everyone, but I know this is a dealbreaker for me personally at the moment. And once you get it down to 10-15 minutes, you're really not looking at anything too different than the current length of a gas station stop.

As a new EV owner, I think people are vastly overestimating how often public charging stations are going to be needed. Of course it depends on each person's lifestyle, driving needs, and type of residence, but since installing a charger in our garage—something I presume is going to be what the large majority of EV owners who live in detached single-family homes in e.g. NW OKC do—we haven't visited a public charging station once. Road trips, etc. are a different ballgame of course but even then you're probably much more likely to use a supercharging station along a highway. How often are most people driving 200+ miles a day? Also, at least for Tesla superchargers, you can get the large majority of your battery back in ~15 minutes. It is the last ~20% or so of the battery that charges at a markedly slower rate, but if you're using a public station just to get you a short rest of the way, it really isn't necessary to "top off".

All of this it to say that, while the point about needing restaurants/lounges/etc. is definitely valid, even if all of the new gas station infrastructure were gradually converted to cater to EVs, I still think there'd be way too many of them for it to make sense from a land use perspective. Just my $0.02.

^

Right, apart from long trips, most everyone will be charging at home. It won't be long before we see wireless charging mats, similar to mobile phones.

It's hard to imagine much need for charging stations within a city. And when that does happen, it will be travelers from elsewhere so the stations would need to be off an interstate or at a motel or tourist attraction.

There will be people without access to a home charging station (such as apartments) but you think that type of person would be one of the last to buy/lease an EV.


I just worry that OKC is in the midst of a massive gas station building boom and that most of those places will be dinosaurs within the next 20 years.

I guess this is where my perspective is skewed, because I do live in an apartment.

I guess this is where my perspective is skewed, because I do live in an apartment.

Fair enough and there is a strong argument to be made that younger people (a big percentage of apartment dwellers) will be more likely to buy an EV than the older population that largely owns homes with garages.

For sure charging times will continue to decrease and the driving range increase. I bet we'll soon see when you can get up to about 150 miles of charge very quickly (10 minutes or so) and then be able to do a full 500 miles in about 30 minutes. In that way, unless you are planning a long drive the existing gas stations could provide chargers that would function almost as fast as a gas pump.

i'm also so shocked every time i see these go in, and they are putting in more and more food, and even locations to sit now, but still no charging stations that would guarantee people are going to be there for awhile and use those new facilities.

Just from a long term gear head's perspective, as much push as there is for a fully electric swing for daily driven vehicles we just can't phase out gasoline in 5 or 10 years to this alternative. As cool as an all electric vehicle is, we're most likely going to be looking at realistically going towards more hybrid and other alternatives to gas (hydrogen, synthetic gasoline etc) which would still constitute the need for these types of stations. From a civil engineering designer stand point, it's not overly complex for them to add several charging stations at any location the size of current on cue footprints. I'd safely say if On Cue was worried they'd be diversifying their designs.

My 2 cents on it.

Yeah, there are currently about 300 million (!) cars in the U.S. alone and almost all are gas-powered.

Yeah, there are currently about 300 million (!) cars in the U.S. alone and almost all are gas-powered.

And if people really start learning just how bad the mining process for electric powered vehicle batteries truly is, I would be surprised if everyone kept applauding them as much.

With changing consumer trends and tax laws regarding construction, I think most commercial buildings are replaced after 30-40 years. Most of these gas station replacements are replacing buildings from the 1980s, replacing buildings from the 1950s, replacing buildings from the 1930s. The 122nd & MacArthur complex is a perfect example, as the entire complex was built in 1985ish.

And if people really start learning just how bad the mining process for electric powered vehicle batteries truly is, I would be surprised if everyone kept applauding them as much.

Not to get into this yet again, but several studies have proven that EVs are still way better for the environment.

Just from a long term gear head's perspective, as much push as there is for a fully electric swing for daily driven vehicles we just can't phase out gasoline in 5 or 10 years to this alternative. As cool as an all electric vehicle is, we're most likely going to be looking at realistically going towards more hybrid and other alternatives to gas (hydrogen, synthetic gasoline etc) which would still constitute the need for these types of stations. From a civil engineering designer stand point, it's not overly complex for them to add several charging stations at any location the size of current on cue footprints. I'd safely say if On Cue was worried they'd be diversifying their designs.

My 2 cents on it.

True, Oncue caters to a lot of different types of customers. Just go to Oncue in the mornings and you see all the commercial vehicles/customers. I think electric is going to be extremely slow for commercial as the economics are no where near as good. That's where you will see more of a pivot to more CNG and diesel. I honestly don't widespread use of electric Amazon or UPS delivery trucks anytime soon.

The small guys will struggle, but that was true before the rise of electric vehicles.

And if people really start learning just how bad the mining process for electric powered vehicle batteries truly is, I would be surprised if everyone kept applauding them as much.

That's true of all mining processes including mining for oil. Right now the breakeven point for electric vehicles is 5 years if pulling your energy from carbon fueled power plants, less if getting the energy from renewable.

I'm more interested in our ability to meet the mining demand for the rare Earth metals needed for electric vehicles. I do think car any kind of ownership will become more of a thing for the wealthy 25 -50 years from now(already is this way for most of the world). Free market/resource limitations will 'fix' the environmental issues in the long run.

I think the C-store adapts, no matter what comes at them. At different times in society "gas stations" have gone from full service stops for your vehicle to an everything store, i.e. Bucees. There are different C-stores for all types of consumer, but to me what stays the same is the convenience part. At the end of the day these stores have made it a priority to be in highly trafficked areas. Like pointed out above, OnCue will locate several stores in an area just to make it convenient for people traveling any direction.

My kids like OnCue about as much as I do, and they are for completely different reasons.

^

The problem is that when there is a big change such as the small full-service stations going away, that leaves a lot of ugly, empty real estate. You can still see remnants of those old stations all over town.

Same way with the smaller grocery stores that were on every corner up until the 1990s or the smaller Walmart stores. They all sit empty and then eventually become bingo halls, pawn shops and payday loan places.

Gas stations become used car lots, muffler places or tobacco stores.


THAT is my concern: the impact of building several hundred (literally) of these stations all over Central OK when it's likely they will be antiquated in the next 30 years.

^

The problem is that when there is a big change such as the small full-service stations going away, that leaves a lot of ugly, empty real estate. You can still see remnants of those old stations all over town.

Same way with the smaller grocery stores that were on every corner up until the 1990s or the smaller Walmart stores. They all sit empty and then eventually become bingo halls, pawn shops and payday loan places.

Gas stations become used car lots, muffler places or tobacco stores.


THAT is my concern: the impact of building several hundred (literally) of these stations all over Central OK when it's likely they will be antiquated in the next 30 years.

That is not an issue unique to Oklahoma City. Happens all over America.

That is not an issue unique to Oklahoma City. Happens all over America.

Yes, but my point is that OKC is in the process of adding hundreds of gas stations right now, with no apparent end in sight.

I live in an apartment downtown with no charging capabilities in our garage. There is 4 EVs here - I honestly don't know where they're charging them. Maybe over at the Santa Fe station or at the new convention center.

Yes, but my point is that OKC is in the process of adding hundreds of gas stations right now, with no apparent end in sight.

I’ve heard that oncue has an agreement to purchase property at Danforth and Coltrane. Doesn’t show them as current owner but sign does say corner lot sold

I’ve heard that oncue has an agreement to purchase property at Danforth and Coltrane. Doesn’t show them as current owner but sign does say corner lot sold

NE or SE Corner?

I'm guessing SE?

ne or se corner?

I'm guessing se?

se

True, Oncue caters to a lot of different types of customers. Just go to Oncue in the mornings and you see all the commercial vehicles/customers. I think electric is going to be extremely slow for commercial as the economics are no where near as good. That's where you will see more of a pivot to more CNG and diesel. I honestly don't widespread use of electric Amazon or UPS delivery trucks anytime soon.

The small guys will struggle, but that was true before the rise of electric vehicles.

I see a Rivian Amazon delivery truck practically everyday in my neighborhood. Seems like the perfect setup for a vehicle that makes frequent stops.

USPS Intends To Deploy Over 66,000 Electric Vehicles by 2028 (https://about.usps.com/newsroom/national-releases/2022/1220-usps-intends-to-deploy-over-66000-electric-vehicles-by-2028.htm)

I forgot to post this, but I go to the 39th and almost Portland location about once a week. They have self checkout at that location. The first time I used it, they said they were going to be added to all of the stores. So far, I haven't seen them at any other locations.

I forgot to post this, but I go to the 39th and almost Portland location about once a week. They have self checkout at that location. The first time I used it, they said they were going to be added to all of the stores. So far, I haven't seen them at any other locations.

They have it at the location at Hwy 66 & Kilpatrick, which is a much newer location that 39th & Portland.

They have it at some of their oldest locations in the Metro as well - 59th & Western and 15th & Air Depot were both recently renovated to add in the self-checkout lanes.

They sure must make a ton of money on these places.

They've been spending a fortune on just land, keep buying more property and don't build on it for nearly a decade, obviously construct large-scale facilities, and they are constantly upgrading stores with new entrances, kitchen expansions, and now self check-out.

It would be interesting to know revenue and profit for a typical location.

They have it at the location at Hwy 66 & Kilpatrick, which is a much newer location that 39th & Portland.


They have it at some of their oldest locations in the Metro as well - 59th & Western and 15th & Air Depot were both recently renovated to add in the self-checkout lanes.

That explains it. Those are not in my neck of the woods, so I haven't seen them.

I noticed the OnCue I frequent at 150th and May has removed the green "Top Tier" stickers from all the pumps. Hoping this is just a promotional change over?

I'm assuming OnCue is keeping their Top Tier Gas or did something change?

I noticed the OnCue I frequent at 150th and May has removed the green "Top Tier" stickers from all the pumps. Hoping this is just a promotional change over?

I'm assuming OnCue is keeping their Top Tier Gas or did something change?

Well that's not very comforting! I know Phillips66 is a top tier gas so as long as they are partnered wit that brand we should be good. I'll have to take a closer look at the one I frequent.

Well that's not very comforting! I know Phillips66 is a top tier gas so as long as they are partnered wit that brand we should be good. I'll have to take a closer look at the one I frequent.

I think Top Tier is more of a marketing thing than anything else. Just like made in USA, Cerified Organic or zero sugar. I see Top Tier logos on at run down Valero and Alon Stations.

. . .off topic question. . .are the On Cue prices the same across all stations or do they vary from station to station (possibly due to traffic counts?)

. . .off topic question. . .are the On Cue prices the same across all stations or do they vary from station to station (possibly due to traffic counts?)

They vary and I suspect the biggest factor is the prices at stations on the same corner or very nearby.

This is purely speculative based on stuff I have read or heard over the years but pricing is based on what they paid and the cost to replace. ie...they buy 10,000 gallons one week when price is high...they have to sell that at a a certain price to recoup their cost. The station across the street doesn't need gas till a week later and gas price dropped so they get it .10 cheaper per gallon resulting in them being cheaper for a while until the first station can get rid of their higher cost gas.

Anyone in the business that can explain how it really works as I am curious. I was in Tonkawa last week and the station across the street was .50 higher per gallon for gas and there still were a few cars there.

At NE 23rd and Santa Fe, OnCue planning to add 4 additional gas pumps to the north and extend the existing canopy to cover them.

Clearly, they aren't worried about EVs taking over from gas anytime soon.

At NE 23rd and Santa Fe, OnCue planning to add 4 additional gas pumps to the north and extend the existing canopy to cover them.

Clearly, they aren't worried about EVs taking over from gas anytime soon.

I have heard estimates it is around 20 years after an ICE vehicle is sold it would be off the road, even the aggressive political pushes are aiming for new sales to be 100% EV around 2035, so even if that were to happen may be beyond the lifecycle of the pumps anyway. Plus their have been various critiques about 2035 being unlikely due to issues ranging from power distribution to several base materials in EVs only have a small fraction of what would be needed mined per year.

I have heard estimates it is around 20 years after an ICE vehicle is sold it would be off the road, even the aggressive political pushes are aiming for new sales to be 100% EV around 2035, so even if that were to happen may be beyond the lifecycle of the pumps anyway. Plus their have been various critiques about 2035 being unlikely due to issues ranging from power distribution to several base materials in EVs only have a small fraction of what would be needed mined per year.

On a lot of my consulting jobs where I created business plans, I used to say that I can fairly well predict what is likely to happen, but I am less sure about WHEN it will happen. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances regarding changes as radical as going electric from ICEs. Price of oil, for one. A full out war in the ME and crude at $200 would likely catapult the EV business. Breakthroughs in battery technology, power distribution, etc., etc. Most will happen, it is just when. And politics has little to do with it. Economics and demand will rule over time. Other influences will come to bear too.

This is purely speculative based on stuff I have read or heard over the years but pricing is based on what they paid and the cost to replace. ie...they buy 10,000 gallons one week when price is high...they have to sell that at a a certain price to recoup their cost. The station across the street doesn't need gas till a week later and gas price dropped so they get it .10 cheaper per gallon resulting in them being cheaper for a while until the first station can get rid of their higher cost gas.

Anyone in the business that can explain how it really works as I am curious. I was in Tonkawa last week and the station across the street was .50 higher per gallon for gas and there still were a few cars there.

There an old C-store with gas owned by one of the old timer fuel distributors on the corner. Across is a 7-11. C store renter lady would call distributor a couple times a day, tell them the 7-11 price, and then distributor would tell her whether to change the price.

On a lot of my consulting jobs where I created business plans, I used to say that I can fairly well predict what is likely to happen, but I am less sure about WHEN it will happen. There are a lot of extenuating circumstances regarding changes as radical as going electric from ICEs. Price of oil, for one. A full out war in the ME and crude at $200 would likely catapult the EV business. Breakthroughs in battery technology, power distribution, etc., etc. Most will happen, it is just when. And politics has little to do with it. Economics and demand will rule over time. Other influences will come to bear too.

My reference to politics was mainly they are the group with the most aggressive timeline on transition, if industry behind EVs had a more optimistic date I would have gone with that.

At least some estimates place the theoretical limit with current battery tech production around 10% of yearly vehicle sales, based on the worldwide availability of the materials needed, sure that can change over time but it likely will be slower than the 2035 date. So the breakthrough in battery tech we really need is materials that are cheaper / more common but still with similar energy density to lithium batteries, some of the research sounds promising but that is still likely years from impacting if does work. Breakthroughs in power distribution seem less likely to rush things, as even if were game changing probably would be rolled out over decades.

If a full on price spike to $200 happened in next few years probably would get the export ban on crude back in effect, which went into effect in the 70s but only lifted in 2015. The US is around net independent anyway, the main issue right now is a lot of our refineries were designed for lower grades of crude since before improvements in drilling the last couple decades, the expectation was the need was going to be for harder to refine grades of crude not simpler to refine crude. If the refiners could not handle that problem in a timely manor, it still seems unlikely would be able to massively ramp EV production quickly. If anything quickest alternative would be to dust off the concept of converting ICE vehicles to run with CNG, and even that would be a mess.

Finally getting busy on May just north of NW Ex:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oncue111023a.jpg

May & NW Ex:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/oncue112623a.jpg

It's interesting that they are moving on this location before 13th and Classen. I wonder when that one will finally get moving.

^

I believe the City has to first rework that intersection, and before that was the construction on the BRT station on the east side of Classen.