perhaps... i was just thinking that the time, the noise, the crowds, the lines and all the other craziness that goes along with a new movie premiere isn't a great environment for a 3 month old.

-M

Oh, I agree! I was just thinking the same but a 6 year old shouldn't be up that late and really, that is a dark movie for a little one.

To those saying that someone carrying a concealed handgun could have prevented or at least reduced the number of individuals shot, did you not see or have you forgotten that the gunman had nearly all of his body covered in armor?

I personally don't see any way that this could have been prevented "in the moment".

Wow guys, some of you are sounding like you need to turn off the 24/7 political coverage. Everyone is just saying stuff, stuff they believe in, and no one is really commenting on what happened today. The facts are this kid was on the verge of becoming a neuroscientist... he was probably extremely bright, and it is difficult to imagine that based on this and other things said that there was such bad parenting involved in his life that it would drive the guy to doing what he did. The guy was dressed, head to toe, in body armor and was throwing tear gas and/or smoke bombs into the theater as he was walking in. I doubt any threat of armed resistance would have concerned him... in his mind he was probably well prepared. My generation and all of the generations coming after me have grown up completely saturated in graphic, extreme violence, and yet statistically we are the least violent generations since data has been being kept. Colorado is considered a very pro-gun state and on a scale of 0-100 gun control groups recently rated it a 15. Baby Boomers are still a large enough swath of the population that they include both parents and grandparents. We have no idea about the ages of the gunman's parents. Some people who talk big about defending themselves freeze "in the moment." Others do not.

So then maybe the answer lies in the one reoccurring theme of all these Dark Knight movies... the thing that the last Dark Knight movie was actually all about... that there are some just plain chaotic evil people in this world, who for whatever reason just want to watch the world burn. Maybe they are sick in the head. Who knows. Who cares. Given every opportunity in this world, they're still just plain bad. No amount of parenting, protecting, or lawyering-up will ever change that or will ever protect you from that.

To those saying that someone carrying a concealed handgun could have prevented or at least reduced the number of individuals shot, did you not see or have you forgotten that the gunman had nearly all of his body covered in armor?

I personally don't see any way that this could have been prevented "in the moment".

You're right that it hs been reported that he had on full body armor, of course. I'm not saying someone with a CC would have prevented this and I don't think anyone else did, either. But I do believe it could well have helped to limit it by virtue of being a distraction if nothing else. He had on body armor but that isn't a total armor and a lucky - and I do believe it would have been just luck - head shot could have brought him down. Being hit with a shot, even with the armor, would have hurt and likely have thrown him off.

I, at least, speculated that someone who spent this much time planning might well have avoided targets where he would be more likely to run into armed prey. People like this are clearly cowards, afterall. It seems like there are a lot of people who insist that CC is a horrible idea. They are welcome to their opinion but not everyone shares it. I think the idea is that it is better to go down swinging than to just be slaughtered without a fight.

I noted in an article on the BBC web site regarding Warner's cancellation of the Paris premier of Dark Knight Rises, that a trailer for another movie had included a scene where gunmen invaded a theater and began shooting members of the audience. Wonder if there's any "copycat" influence involved? It gives one to think...

I was discussing why he might - or might not - have chosen the venue. But, yeah, considering the carnage, I think a patron firing back in the midst of a panic would have been the better scenario. The patron might have accidently shot one or two but who knows how many could have been spared - about 78 injured and 12 or so dead at last count. Not ideal but being in a movie theater with someone gunning down men, women and children with no push back doesn't strike me as the better option. At that point, your choices aren't safely sit there vs. run the risk of accidently being shot by a patron. Your choices at that point are probably being deliberately gunned down by someone actively trying to kill you and your family vs. perhaps accidently getting shot by a patron in a panic situation and a killer who would be far more likely to be going into defensive mode than he would have if no one fought back - thus a safer situation for most of the patrons. No guarantee but at that point, you are playing the odds to survive.

Once you have someone actively trying to slaughter everyone in huge numbers - including children - I think it is a little bit of a stretch to be more concerned that someone might get caught in a crossfire than that patrons sitting there might be the shooter's next victim. He didn't stop until he was ready and as I read the reports, the theater was quiet other than the dying once he stopped.

and somebody else who was carrying might think you're in on it and start firing on you and more innocent people caught in another crossfire, and if there were 3 or 4 then more would be dead and wounded than what we already have.

This should not be political. Yet the gun nuts cannot resist the opportunity to tell us the only thing we need more of in the US is more guns. Bull****.

It's ridiculous that posters are focusing on gun control issues when there are real people and real lives involved here.

http://news.yahoo.com/aurora-shooting-possible-victim-unaccounted-27th-birthday-205219708--abc-news-topstories.html

http://abcnews.go.com/US/colo-shooting-victim-jessica-ghawi-jolt-lighting-mother/story?id=16819751

There is plenty of time to have those debates later.

As horrendous as this is, keep in mind there were 12 lives taken over just one weekend's time in Chicago alone two weeks ago. There were over 70 people shot in New York City in a one week period in June.

As horrendous as this is, keep in mind there were 12 lives taken over just one weekend's time in Chicago alone two weeks ago. There were over 70 people shot in New York City in a one week period in June.

Not to mention the number of shooting right here in OKC this year.

and somebody else who was carrying might think you're in on it and start firing on you and more innocent people caught in another crossfire, and if there were 3 or 4 then more would be dead and wounded than what we already have.

And yet, with all the legally carried guns out there does that scenario actually happen? Nope.

I agree with Chris Rock:
“Gun control? We need bullet control! I think every bullet should cost 5,000 dollars. Because if a bullet cost five thousand dollar, we wouldn't have any innocent bystander .”

And yet, with all the legally carried guns out there does that scenario actually happen? Nope.

In a dark theater with tear gas in the room and mass panic you see somebody else shooting you wouldn't think they were part of it? Get real

And yet, with all the legally carried guns out there does that scenario actually happen? Nope.

You used to be one of my fav posters here, but the fact you are trying to politicize this massacre disgusts me.

I agree with Chris Rock:
“Gun control? We need bullet control! I think every bullet should cost 5,000 dollars. Because if a bullet cost five thousand dollar, we wouldn't have any innocent bystander .”

WOW $5000 bullets.
Bullets aren’t very hard to make if you have even minimal skills and equipment.
I could make several a day and get rich making black market bullets.

---
---
---
I could make several a day and get rich making black market bullets.


Hold the phone...you mean, price controls create underground economies?


<grin>

You used to be one of my fav posters here, but the fact you are trying to politicize this massacre disgusts me.

Then by all means, be disgusted. Its not about 'politics' to me. Its about alternative outcomes and not volunteering to be a victim. I never post in the politics area because I'm not usually about politics. If a bunch of people had been killed in a bus accident we'd probably be talking about the pros and cons of seat belts on buses. With many discussing there are the 'what if' angles. Just because you want to label it 'politics' doesn't make it so.

WOW $5000 bullets.
Bullets aren’t very hard to make if you have even minimal skills and equipment.
I could make several a day and get rich making black market bullets.

Chris Rocks statement was hyperbole, accentuating the ridiculous.
The point, I think, is guns may be more regulated than bullets.
Should it be that way? Can bullets be purchased at a gun show?
Do people need to produce a C & C permit to purchase bullets, nationwide?
Is there a waiting period on bullets?
How about armor piercing bullets? Or dum dums? Can anyone just buy these
without some type of special permit?

Warning: Aurora Massacre rant (http://blog.kentforliberty.com/2012/07/warning-aurora-massacre-rant.html)


[T]here is only ONE real world solution for massacres like the one which just happened in the Aurora, Colorado movie theater: Get rid, completely and forever, of every single gun "law" that has ever been enacted. Every. Single. One...


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pqK3wqWFgV4/UAoiazmJn-I/AAAAAAAAAeQ/v6uN6YQzwrQ/s320/firearms%2Bwelcome.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OlNv9d6ThAM/UAoi3RvU9mI/AAAAAAAAAec/-L7MY7DLLI4/s320/handbill-crims-beware-600-6.5x8.25.jpg


Advocating, passing, enforcing, or obeying a gun "law" does nothing to help anyone but the bad guys. It helps the murderers who pull the trigger, and it helps the murderers of the blood-dancing, TV camera lusting, Mass Murder Fan Club: those, who like Bloomberg and the Bradiots, salivate in hopes that another massacre will happen every time a new gun "law" is on the horizon so that they can feign "concern" for the victims. Inside, they are jumping for joy at every death. And don't you ever be fooled.


"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."

-Richard Henry Lee

I'm glad to see that eveyone took my suggestion to focus on the victims for a while instead of having a debate about guns.

I'm glad to see that eveyone took my suggestion to focus on the victims for a while instead of having a debate about guns.

Meanwhile, turn on the tv and you can't escape commentary, analysis, speculation, conjecture, fear mongering. Let's not have a 'discussion' here.

Meanwhile, turn on the tv and you can't escape commentary, analysis, speculation, conjecture, fear mongering. Let's not have a 'discussion' here.

Of course that's correct. Are we not better than that? Nothing is going to change about gun control any time in the near future and having a debate about it when families are suffering is pointless and uncaring. Can't we at least let them bury their loved ones first?

Of course that's correct.


That's your opinion, and I'm happy people are sharing. Goodnight! :)

Chris Rocks statement was hyperbole, accentuating the ridiculous.
The point, I think, is guns may be more regulated than bullets.
Should it be that way? Can bullets be purchased at a gun show?
Do people need to produce a C & C permit to purchase bullets, nationwide?
Is there a waiting period on bullets?
How about armor piercing bullets? Or dum dums? Can anyone just buy these
without some type of special permit?

I know his statement was hyperbole and so was my post to a degree.

But because I have certain skills I know I could manufacture any of the bullets you mentioned. So could many others.

The point is you are never going to solve this problem by making more laws and regulations on arms and bullets.
The bad guys are always going to find a way to procure them.

A well-armed society of citizens who have received training is likely the best defense against ordinary crime and the crazy mad men who commit most of these mass shootings.

I know his statement was hyperbole and so was my post to a degree.

But because I have certain skills I know I could manufacture any of the bullets you mentioned. So could many others.

The point is you are never going to solve this problem by making more laws and regulations on arms and bullets.
The bad guys are always going to find a way to procure them.

A well-armed society of citizens who have received training is likely the best defense against ordinary crime and the crazy mad men who commit most of these mass shootings.

Thanks again for allowing the victims to be buried first before getting into this kind of discussion. It's very civil of you and their families will appreciate it.

Meanwhile, turn on the tv and you can't escape commentary, analysis, speculation, conjecture, fear mongering. Let's not have a 'discussion' here.
I haven't seen much of the political discussion of it here since I am watching local coverage. When the nationals come on I tend to turn the channel to something else.

Living about 4-5 miles south of the theater on the southern edge of Aurora puts me a little too close to these type events for my liking. Much like the connections to the OKC Bombing other such events.

Thanks again for allowing the victims to be buried first before getting into this kind of discussion. It's very civil of you and their families will appreciate it.

oh good grief. there are people shot and killed every day. So I guess by your thinking we should never, ever talk about gun control. And you really think families of this particular shooting are tuning into OKCTALK during this awful time for them?

There is a way to respect the victims and still discuss potential solutions to the problem we see.

My question is: when is the right time to discuss guns? Again, there were 70 people shot in NYC alone over a one week period in June. Was there a national outcry for something to be done from either side of the gun control issue? Was there a national outcry from either side to only talk about the victims, rather than the perpetrator(s)? The answer to both questions is NO. Most Americans don't even recognize the violence that has happened - not just Thursday night. I personally believe each of the 12 souls who died due to being shot in Chicago in just one weekend are as important as the 12 who were murdered in the movie theatre. Yet, there is no outrage in that case.

Guys we can stop all the guesswork. Rick Warren already figured out why it happened.
https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/RickWarren/status/226378218456899584

Typical selective hyper sensitivity if you ask me. I feel as bad for the victims and their families as anyone else. But pointing a finger simply because people are discussing what might or might not have prevented it (or even made it worse) is no more insensitive than ignoring those topics. I'm not reading any disrespectful posts. I'd rather hear about different perspectives on stopping future such incidence than the non-stop coverage of the nut job himself.

If a bunch of people died today in a plane crash wouldn't we all be taking about plane safety, prevention, etc.?

Solution to drug problem - allow drugs
Solution to death by gun - ban guns

weird.

If a bunch of people died today in a plane crash wouldn't we all be taking about plane safety, prevention, etc.?

Based on the thread so far I'd say we'd probably be discussing UFO's.

Solution to drug problem - allow drugs
Solution to death by gun - ban guns

weird.

Not weird.
"Liberal"

T
My question is: when is the right time to discuss guns? Again, there were 70 people shot in NYC alone over a one week period in June.

I thought NYC already had gun control?

I thought NYC already had gun control?

Court ruled against handgun bans. Assault weapons are still legal. I'm about as pro-gun as anyone else (and much moreso than my handle would make you assume), but I don't see the need for assault weapons any case. If you want to allow collectors to have them, sure, go for it... just make the ammunition unavailable.

Regardless, that is against the point. There is all this justifiable concern and depression when it comes to these victims, but we don't think twice when the same statistic occurs.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/07/us/interactive.colorado.victims/?hpt=hp_c2

This is an issue I go back and forth on. I see both sides. Is it okay these days to admit that?

Honestly though, this shooting rampage makes me think maybe the problem that night wasn't too many guns in the theater, it was too few. In this crazy day and age, we may have hit the tipping point on thinking "gun laws" are really going to do anything. Unless those laws allow everyone to be armed who feels the need to be. Then, James Holmes wouldn't have been the only one with guns in that theater and he wouldn't have lasted more than a few seconds before he would have been taken out.

I always think about stricter laws and then remember that criminals don't abide by the laws. Meth is against the law, there's lots of meth. On and on. When the ^%$* hits the fan in this country and the govt. checks quit sustaining a huge portion of the illegal gun toting thugs, I want to be able to defend my family against their rampage.

It's a crazy world.

Those poor families in Colorado. Peace - some way - be with them all.

This is an issue I go back and forth on. I see both sides. Is it okay these days to admit that?

Honestly though, this shooting rampage makes me think maybe the problem that night wasn't too many guns in the theater, it was too few. In this crazy day and age, we may have hit the tipping point on thinking "gun laws" are really going to do anything. Unless those laws allow everyone to be armed who feels the need to be. Then, James Holmes wouldn't have been the only one with guns in that theater and he wouldn't have lasted more than a few seconds before he would have been taken out.

I always think about stricter laws and then remember that criminals don't abide by the laws. Meth is against the law, there's lots of meth. On and on. When the ^%$* hits the fan in this country and the govt. checks quit sustaining a huge portion of the illegal gun toting thugs, I want to be able to defend my family against their rampage.

It's a crazy world.

Those poor families in Colorado. Peace - some way - be with them all.

Hey, at least we would be helping Mexico. Manufacturing assult rifles for the black market would be a nice export for them.

Nobody would have been likely to "take him out". And definitely not in a few seconds...

Nobody would have been likely to "take him out". And definitely not in a few seconds...

We'll never know, will we? He was the only one armed. The "bad guys" always will be; laws, fewer laws or more laws.

Actually amid all the chaos the odds of an average citizen who was even armed taking out the guy would have been quite slim. The best bet would have been for someone to tackle him and put him on the ground then other citizens could have followed suit.

Actually amid all the chaos the odds of an average citizen who was even armed taking out the guy would have been quite slim. The best bet would have been for someone to tackle him and put him on the ground then other citizens could have followed suit.

Accurate post is accurate.

Typical selective hyper sensitivity if you ask me. I feel as bad for the victims and their families as anyone else. But pointing a finger simply because people are discussing what might or might not have prevented it (or even made it worse) is no more insensitive than ignoring those topics. I'm not reading any disrespectful posts. I'd rather hear about different perspectives on stopping future such incidence than the non-stop coverage of the nut job himself.

If a bunch of people died today in a plane crash wouldn't we all be taking about plane safety, prevention, etc.?

Pish posh. I can certainly see how bad you feel. You have had a number of posts in this thread and only one which was posted after you said the above showed any feelings towards the victims and their families. You had post number two in this thread and your immediate concern was gun control issues. Waiting a couple of days until families have buried their dead wouldn't hurt anyone. It would take a while to determine all of the facts in this tragedy to see how gun related issues might come into play anyway. People here are just using this as an excuse to further their own agendas without being too concerned about the facts.

HdA81qqBdK0

Guns Don't Kill People, The Government Does


Michael W. Dean and Neema Vedadi talk about Tucson SWAT murdering a US Marine and why it isn't big news like the 1970 Kent State killings, they discuss a citizen foreclosing on Bank of America, the problems with paying in pennies, Michael's old band Bomb in the Experience Music Project museum in Seattle -- listed as "music that Krist Novoselic finds inspiring", Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip, Second City, Bulletproof Salesman, William Seward's house, a "drinking while white" dream, Cops Attack and Strip Naked innocent woman in Canton, Ohio, reflections on Gil Scott-Heron's death, and obsolete audio technology and how it organically influences the future. Then we hear "The Power of Suggestion", a song by Bomb.


Point of that video post? Discuss anything and everything (with respect to the 'threads', of course) :)

This is an issue I go back and forth on. I see both sides. Is it okay these days to admit that?

Honestly though, this shooting rampage makes me think maybe the problem that night wasn't too many guns in the theater, it was too few. In this crazy day and age, we may have hit the tipping point on thinking "gun laws" are really going to do anything. Unless those laws allow everyone to be armed who feels the need to be. Then, James Holmes wouldn't have been the only one with guns in that theater and he wouldn't have lasted more than a few seconds before he would have been taken out.

I always think about stricter laws and then remember that criminals don't abide by the laws. Meth is against the law, there's lots of meth. On and on. When the ^%$* hits the fan in this country and the govt. checks quit sustaining a huge portion of the illegal gun toting thugs, I want to be able to defend my family against their rampage.

It's a crazy world.

Those poor families in Colorado. Peace - some way - be with them all.
This was in the paper today from the (Democrat) Governor from the Sunday morning political TV shows.
Denver Post - "Hickenlooper" tougher gun laws would not have stopped shooter (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21132699/hickenlooper-tougher-gun-laws-would-not-have-stopped)

I think if someone is determined enough they will find a way. If guns weren't available he could have just gone the bomb route which was evidently fairly easy for him to figure out. Then you have mass casualties without with little hope of survivors.

Pish posh. I can certainly see how bad you feel. You have had a number of posts in this thread and only one which was posted after you said the above showed any feelings towards the victims and their families. You had post number two in this thread and your immediate concern was gun control issues. Waiting a couple of days until families have buried their dead wouldn't hurt anyone. It would take a while to determine all of the facts in this tragedy to see how gun related issues might come into play anyway. People here are just using this as an excuse to further their own agendas without being too concerned about the facts.

So, if I dropped to my knees wailing and then wondered out loud about adding one or more citizens with guns to the discussion - then it would have been acceptable to you? Get over it - You are no more qualified to determine my level of sentiment based on some words in a thread then anyone else and you're quite the simpleton to forward that idea.

Listening to reports of the dad who ran out on his baby and girlfriend, got in his truck and drove away

Can't say exactly how I would react but I'm not sure if anyone could be more cowardly than that

I believe he then proposed to her but can you imagine the hell he will pay for here on out...Geez

If he bailed in that manner, then later he had her attention long enough for her to listen to his proposal, he's probably not in line for very much in the hell to pay department. If I heard this tale correctly, they were rather new to the area. When the shooting began, he left her, and her off-spring, in the theater. He then proceeded to make tracks for himself, and only himself.

If she'd even hear him out after that little display of care and concern, for anything other than show me where you want to kick me and have at it, then it seems more than a tad likely she'd put up with dang near anything from such a fella. One thing for certain, he wouldn't want to cross paths with my lovely anytime soon. She is not a fan.

i think he texted her his proposal.
while eastbound on The Road to Perdition.

Suspect is making his first court appearance now. Hair is dyed red and he appears kinda 'spaced out.'

Kinda? (no shyte?)

The people who want everyone to be armed are just as loony as the people who want to ban all guns. Knee-jerk reaction on both sides.

This was 1 isolated incident in 1 movie theater by a raving lunatic. That doesn't mean that everyone now needs to pack heat each time they see a movie.

Crazy people will still do crazy things. It's part of life. As horrible as this was there really isn't anything we can do to prevent it. Especially with a guy like this with no obvious warning signs.

You nailed it, Brett.
The problem is that there are way more "crazy" people than there used to be.
Percentage-wise.

Why . . . I've noticed that lots of folks wander around talking to themselves (or others) electronically and nobody can really actually be in two places at the same time. I think "They" used to call it Social Anomie(?) even back in the pre-"phonecell" days.

Especially with a guy like this with no obvious warning signs.
Budding "neuro-scientist"/"pending dropout" from Southern California with relatively "successful" "Software Designer" dad?
(just a thought . . .)

The people who want everyone to be armed are just as loony as the people who want to ban all guns. Knee-jerk reaction on both sides.

This was 1 isolated incident in 1 movie theater by a raving lunatic. That doesn't mean that everyone now needs to pack heat each time they see a movie.

Crazy people will still do crazy things. It's part of life. As horrible as this was there really isn't anything we can do to prevent it. Especially with a guy like this with no obvious warning signs.

There were warning signs but nobody was watching... Ordering body armor, that size clip for his AK, the amount of ammo he ordered.... all on the internet.

There were warning signs but nobody was watching... Ordering body armor, that size clip for his AK, the amount of ammo he ordered.... all on the internet.

Yep.... but I don't know how you would even flag that if it was spread out over months, no criminal history, etc...

There were warning signs but nobody was watching... Ordering body armor, that size clip for his AK, the amount of ammo he ordered.... all on the internet.

Those are only 'warning signs' after the fact.

Those are only 'warning signs' after the fact.

I agree but thinking it should have set off an alarm somewhere, it's not like the government isn't watching for people who are wanting to do acts of terror.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Yup. "anomie". Sort of the opposite of the subject of Thomas Paine's famous essay . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomie

Unfortunately.

There were warning signs but nobody was watching... Ordering body armor, that size clip for his AK, the amount of ammo he ordered.... all on the internet.

We can probably assume that pro gun folks and the NRA wont allow any gun bans (even though assault rifles have no business in civilain hands) but one measure that should be taken is banning the sale of extended clips and drum clips. All these things do is allow a shooter to kill more people more quickly. No way should something that holds 50 rounds of ammo be legal. You cant use them legally for hunting and you dont need 50 rounds to protect you family.