I have always been a Southern Baptist, but had quit going mainly because I'm not an early riser. Lifechurch offers me Saturday night services, I can wear casual clothes, and it's a relaxed atmosphere, plus the people are very nice there. I just started going on Easter week-end and haven't missed a week since. For me they are offering me "no excuses" church. I love listening to Pastor Craig. He's an amazing Pastor. Just my opinion, but if a church has a lot of people attending services every week, that has to mean they are doing something right. I don't want to debate with you all, but personally I am happy there. Before you criticize something, go check it out first.

There you have it boys and girls. Typical of most church goers. Going because it's convenient. I'm sure it says it in the bible somewhere. Go to church only if it's convenient for you. WWJD??

I have always been a Southern Baptist, but had quit going mainly because I'm not an early riser. Lifechurch offers me Saturday night services, I can wear casual clothes, and it's a relaxed atmosphere, plus the people are very nice there. I just started going on Easter week-end and haven't missed a week since. For me they are offering me "no excuses" church. I love listening to Pastor Craig. He's an amazing Pastor. Just my opinion, but if a church has a lot of people attending services every week, that has to mean they are doing something right. I don't want to debate with you all, but personally I am happy there. Before you criticize something, go check it out first.

I'm not criticizing you or churches, I'm criticizing churches that bring in millions of dollars and use that money to put on productions, build big new fancy churches, and promote themselves like a business instead of doing what Jesus preached. Would Jesus be prouder of Lifechurch with all it's fancy stuff and TV productions and millions of dollars or of a church that spent it's time and money helping the poor, sick and hungry?

Speaking of the Holier-Than-Thou...... The tax records for former DA Wes Lane (aka, The Minister of Justice) and his mommy's foundation, The Burbridge Foundation are pretty telling.

Wow you can carry a grudge. It's not like he charged you and your wife with a bunch of bogus felonies...

--oh wait.

There you have it boys and girls. Typical of most church goers. Going because it's convenient. I'm sure it says it in the bible somewhere. Go to church only if it's convenient for you. WWJD??

translation:

http://www.malakhgabriel.net/images/stopliking.jpg

Wow you can carry a grudge. It's not like he charged you and your wife with a bunch of bogus felonies...

--oh wait.

Ha! Yeah, I considered doing a 'fair disclosure' - but felt it would be overstating the obvious!

translation:

http://www.malakhgabriel.net/images/stopliking.jpg

What a strange response....especially from a mod. It's not like you can't post your funny, little pic on every single thread on this forum. Afterall, it is a forum. But I guess you feel the need to post it since I questioned a conservative friend of yours.

Anyway, back to topic. Do you feel I'm wrong in my observation? If so, why do you feel I'm wrong? Or do you just want to post a hit and run pic?

What a strange response....especially from a mod. It's not like you can't post your funny, little pic on every single thread on this forum. Afterall, it is a forum. But I guess you feel the need to post it since I questioned a conservative friend of yours.

Anyway, back to topic. Do you feel I'm wrong in my observation? If so, why do you feel I'm wrong? Or do you just want to post a hit and run pic?

just letting you know what you sound like... i don't care if you like lifechurch or not. i personally don't care for their version of faith. however, i don't feel the need to continually attack a lady just because she felt like inviting people to her church. tone it down. -M

just letting you know what you sound like... i don't care if you like lifechurch or not. i personally don't care for their version of faith. however, i don't feel the need to continually attack a lady just because she felt like inviting people to her church. tone it down. -M

She has come on a public forum to invite people to a megachurch event. Questioning her and commenting about her statements is not attaking. Roadhawg has asked the same question numerous times without a response from anyone. Looks like the lady who started this thread by inviting us to this church event would/should be able to answer the question.

She has come on a public forum to invite people to a megachurch event. Questioning her and commenting about her statements is not attaking. Roadhawg has asked the same question numerous times without a response from anyone. Looks like the lady who started this thread by inviting us to this church event would/should be able to answer the question.

...and if you noticed, i didn't say anything to roadhawg. that should probably tell you something. tone it down or move along. pm me if you still don't understand. back to topic. -M

Just my opinion, but if a church has a lot of people attending services every week, that has to mean they are doing something right.

The members are just being told what they want to hear, which is generally some watered-down version of Christianity. Meanwhile, the pastor is raking in massive amounts of money. Groeschel's housing compound is ridiculous, by the way. I'm not going to post a picture or anything, but come on, these guys should really practice what they preach. Does he really need his own private tennis court and swimming pool?

He must think he does.....

The members are just being told what they want to hear, which is generally some watered-down version of Christianity. Meanwhile, the pastor is raking in massive amounts of money. Groeschel's housing compound is ridiculous, by the way. I'm not going to post a picture or anything, but come on, these guys should really practice what they preach. Does he really need his own private tennis court and swimming pool?

Paging metro to thread #30855

The members are just being told what they want to hear, which is generally some watered-down version of Christianity. Meanwhile, the pastor is raking in massive amounts of money. Groeschel's housing compound is ridiculous, by the way. I'm not going to post a picture or anything, but come on, these guys should really practice what they preach. Does he really need his own private tennis court and swimming pool?

Its interesting that his residence isn't listed under his name on the OK County Assessor site. I'm guessing he has everything covered under his non-profit LLC to keep from paying any property taxes.

To touch on the comments by the OP, I would say you can't use that as a good measure. Westboro Baptist Church has people attending every week, but are they really doing anything the way Jesus would intend? I would think not.

The members are just being told what they want to hear, which is generally some watered-down version of Christianity. Meanwhile, the pastor is raking in massive amounts of money. Groeschel's housing compound is ridiculous, by the way. I'm not going to post a picture or anything, but come on, these guys should really practice what they preach. Does he really need his own private tennis court and swimming pool?

The only way he could justify this is if he had opened his home as a refuge to say abused mothers and their kids that need to escape a bad situation, or foster kids, or if he holds daily camps at this house where he lets those less fortunate in his community use his grounds. I would be all for that, even though it is still ridiculous and there are plenty of other foundations that do that (YWCA and YMCA's) that the church could sponsor.

I doubt this is the case though.

And for it not being in his name, maybe the church owns it. Ive never seen one of these "churches" do it but I know smaller and rural churches will own a house and maintain it for the pastor/preist/minister to stay in while he is with that church. Usually it is very modest and the pastor would host bible sessions, or church cookouts or one on one counseling there.

Groeschel's housing compound is ridiculous, by the way. I'm not going to post a picture or anything, but come on, these guys should really practice what they preach. Does he really need his own private tennis court and swimming pool?

Don't be too quick to judge . . . I'm not sure about the need for a tennis court,
But maybe he uses the swimming pool at the parsonage to practice walking on water.

And for it not being in his name, maybe the church owns it. Ive never seen one of these "churches" do it but I know smaller and rural churches will own a house and maintain it for the pastor/preist/minister to stay in while he is with that church. Usually it is very modest and the pastor would host bible sessions, or church cookouts or one on one counseling there.

The Catholic parish I belonged to until relocating owned a house/rectory for the priests to live in. It was definitely modest and always open to parishioners to visit and such.

Personally I would be interested in seeing the financials for any residence that is being covered by a non-profit entity or leader of a non-profit. Especially for a religious organization.

Do you suppose that [G-d], working in ["H-s or H-r"] mysterious ways has figured out a way to pay for the mandated health insurance of those who cannot afford health insurance? Has The Pope put in his two cents on this issue? How about the ghost of Joseph Smith or Moroni? Perhaps President Obama's former pastor in Chicago? Or his Imam overseas?

Frankly, Venture, I think you are onto something here.
Even if you admit to being a former Papist.
Of course this would all involve tearing down that "Impeneterable (sic) Wall between "Church and State" . . . Which would probably cause most "True Believers" on both "the Right" and "the Left" to have spazz attacks.

Roadhawg has asked the same question numerous times without a response from anyone.
Why "answer" any of them, it isn't going to change his or anyone's mind no matter what is posted since your minds are pretty much made up and seem to know the answers to everything. I just forgot how futile it is to have any religion type discussion on this site since it is pretty much worthless because the "anti-religion" people (some are like evangelical atheists) will always come out in force with the same old crap they know nothing about but that never gets in the way of a good rant.....

Carry on...

I really don't understand this post and most of the responses. Why the hate for LifeChurch? They are serving a purpose. They may not be as deep as some want, but they are getting people through the door that maybe wouldn't have otherwise. I am not a megachurch fan; I don't enjoy attending them, so I'm not a LifeChurch member coming to their defense. I think discussions on salary and money can be valid, but it should be done in a much more respectful way than they are here. If you don't like LifeChurch, don't go. If you don't like church, don't go. If you don't like religion, don't believe. At least see that LifeChurch is doing something to get people to hear the gospel of Christ and some Biblical teaching, which is at least one point of a church.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

I really don't understand this post and most of the responses. Why the hate for LifeChurch? They are serving a purpose. They may not be as deep as some want, but they are getting people through the door that maybe wouldn't have otherwise. I am not a megachurch fan; I don't enjoy attending them, so I'm not a LifeChurch member coming to their defense. I think discussions on salary and money can be valid, but it should be done in a much more respectful way than they are here. If you don't like LifeChurch, don't go. If you don't like church, don't go. If you don't like religion, don't believe. At least see that LifeChurch is doing something to get people to hear the gospel of Christ and some Biblical teaching, which is at least one point of a church.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Excellent points, Brett.

Sounds like you and Roadhawg were attending the wrong church.


Sounds like rcjunkie has never read Christ's Sermon on the Mount. Or maybe he forgot the part in the bible where Christ threw the money changers out of the Temple. Or just about anything else Christ said.

Why "answer" any of them, it isn't going to change his or anyone's mind no matter what is posted since your minds are pretty much made up and seem to know the answers to everything. I just forgot how futile it is to have any religion type discussion on this site since it is pretty much worthless because the "anti-religion" people (some are like evangelical atheists) will always come out in force with the same old crap they know nothing about but that never gets in the way of a good rant.....

Carry on...

Why? Because they are valid questions. She came on a public forum inviting people she does not know to a church event. If she or anyone else really wanted people to attend, she would answer a few questions. Next time maybe she should just pm a few OKCTALK members who she knows on a more personal level if she does not want to answer questions about the place in which she is inviting us to attend.

Why? Because they are valid questions. She came on a public forum inviting people she does not know to a church event. If she or anyone else really wanted people to attend, she would answer a few questions. Next time maybe she should just pm a few OKCTALK members who she knows on a more personal level if she does not want to answer questions about the place in which she is inviting us to attend.

"Valid questions?" Give me a break. I'm as skeptical of organized religion as anyone else but this woman simply invited people to consider attending a movie series at a well known church.

To that very valid and polite invite she was bombarded with B.S.

Last time I checked, a church's funds come directly from their congregation and supporters. Its not like mega churches hide the fact they have a lot of money. If their followers want to continue to give and have no issue with how the money is spent, then why does it matter to you or anyone else? Simply don't go or don't write a check if you don't agree.

If I was her, like so many before, the only thing she probably got from her effort to be nice was a harsh reminder that OKCtalk is not a friendly place in many instances.

There is a reason so many people lurk and do not post.

If her question spurred the thought about church finances, then go start a thread on church finances instead of hijacking this thread and then trying to justify it.

Anyone in the future that clicks on this thread with its inviting title, "At The Movies at Lifechurch.tv" is in for an all too familiar rude awakening.

*Yeah, i fully realize I was sucked in too

Why "answer" any of them, it isn't going to change his or anyone's mind no matter what is posted since your minds are pretty much made up and seem to know the answers to everything. I just forgot how futile it is to have any religion type discussion on this site since it is pretty much worthless because the "anti-religion" people (some are like evangelical atheists) will always come out in force with the same old crap they know nothing about but that never gets in the way of a good rant.....

Carry on...


When did I say I was 'anti-religion'? I didn't attack religion, I said I was against churches that had millions of dollars and pretended to follow the teachings of Jesus.

Just about every decent sized church has millions of dollars. Sure, LC.TV's methods are a bit different--they are very entertainment focused and put on a good show, but to each his own. There are very compelling arguments that this is just a show, that the Pastor gives the same sermon at various campuses, cries the same fake tears at each of them, is an actor, that he's paid an awful lot of money for what he does, which is probably inconsistent with biblical teachings, etc. I don't think LC tries to hide any of that. I don't think they really respond to or acknowledge those criticisms. Members would have to live under a rock not to know of those issues. There's no real defense to be made because those problems should be readily apparent.

If someone knows about those issues and continues to give LC money, I'll no more condemn giving money to those folks than giving money to those folks who pace up and down the median offering to work for food. You're absolutely free to spend your money however you see fit (within the law).

I do think churches should be taxed, but that has nothing to do with SQ's announcement.

Just about every decent sized church has millions of dollars. Sure, LC.TV's methods are a bit different--they are very entertainment focused and put on a good show, but to each his own. There are very compelling arguments that this is just a show, that the Pastor gives the same sermon at various campuses, cries the same fake tears at each of them, is an actor, that he's paid an awful lot of money for what he does, which is probably inconsistent with biblical teachings, etc. I don't think LC tries to hide any of that. I don't think they really respond to or acknowledge those criticisms. Members would have to live under a rock not to know of those issues. There's no real defense to be made because those problems should be readily apparent.

If someone knows about those issues and continues to give LC money, I'll no more condemn giving money to those folks than giving money to those folks who pace up and down the median offering to work for food. You're absolutely free to spend your money however you see fit (within the law).

I do think churches should be taxed, but that has nothing to do with SQ's announcement.


I have decided that I am going to think twice about inviting you all to anything else. I forget you aren't my friends, and some of you always have to bring out the bad in things and can't appreciate the good that is done. It doesn't matter what I post, Bostonfan is right there being very antagonistic and rude to me. I was just wanting to invite you to something I thought you might enjoy. Instead you turn it in to a money thing and have to criticize the church. I was just trying to be nice, but some of you aren't. I won't make this mistake again.

I have decided that I am going to think twice about inviting you all to anything else. I forget you aren't my friends, and some of you always have to bring out the bad in things and can't appreciate the good that is done. It doesn't matter what I post, Bostonfan is right there being very antagonistic and rude to me. I was just wanting to invite you to something I thought you might enjoy. Instead you turn it in to a money thing and have to criticize the church. I was just trying to be nice, but some of you aren't. I won't make this mistake again.

I appreciated the reminder.

I wonder if the people so harshly criticizing Pastor Craig's teaching have actually ever listened to him more than once. I have known Pastor Craig (as an acquaintance) since before he was pastor of Life Covenant Church. I know he has a heart for sharing Christ with people. I understand his style is not for everyone, but if you haven't listened, please spare the personal attacks.

How many of you have been a part of one of the countless local mission efforts they do? How many have attended their online services that reach people all over the world?

That is all. Feel free to bash this post also with your insults and mockery.

Made the mistake of driving by there once right when they were letting out....couldn't believe they had someone out there holding up traffic so they could empty their parking lot. I was in a hurry and I bet I had to sit there for at least ten minutes, WTF are they so special that they take precedence over the general public?

Lifechurch in Stillwater just has a waver:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6d0PqJpmOc

Made the mistake of driving by there once right when they were letting out....couldn't believe they had someone out there holding up traffic so they could empty their parking lot. I was in a hurry and I bet I had to sit there for at least ten minutes, WTF are they so special that they take precedence over the general public?

I meant to add,

I made the mistake of driving through downtown one night right after a basketball game and the WHOLE STREET was blocked off! Who do these basketball fans think they are?

I have decided that I am going to think twice about inviting you all to anything else. I forget you aren't my friends, and some of you always have to bring out the bad in things and can't appreciate the good that is done. It doesn't matter what I post, Bostonfan is right there being very antagonistic and rude to me. I was just wanting to invite you to something I thought you might enjoy. Instead you turn it in to a money thing and have to criticize the church. I was just trying to be nice, but some of you aren't. I won't make this mistake again.

I guess I would approach it this way for your SQ. I'm not being rude as I have said the same to my employees in the past.

If you aren't around extremely close friends that you are open with the two things you should keep to yourself are Politics and Religion. They are both (in my eyes) personal choices and there is zero need to share with others unless you are prepared to deal with opposing beliefs.

I'm sorry you feel you have been the lightning rod for opening this can of worms but Religion will always be an emotional topic with strong feelings all the way around. It doesn't help matters that it is also with a controversial figure and topic (big box/mega church). Wars have been fought over this for thousands and thousands of years. Expecting a topic on religion to be posted on a very diverse and energetic forum without these stronger reactions is a bit unrealistic.

Just something to keep in mind going forward when you make posts on religious and politics topics. They are going to get emotional/strong responses. You should be prepared to back up, support, respond to any contrasting view points that are going to come.

I guess I would approach it this way for your SQ. I'm not being rude as I have said the same to my employees in the past.

If you aren't around extremely close friends that you are open with the two things you should keep to yourself are Politics and Religion. They are both (in my eyes) personal choices and there is zero need to share with others unless you are prepared to deal with opposing beliefs.

I'm sorry you feel you have been the lightning rod for opening this can of worms but Religion will always be an emotional topic with strong feelings all the way around. It doesn't help matters that it is also with a controversial figure and topic (big box/mega church). Wars have been fought over this for thousands and thousands of years. Expecting a topic on religion to be posted on a very diverse and energetic forum without these stronger reactions is a bit unrealistic.

Just something to keep in mind going forward when you make posts on religious and politics topics. They are going to get emotional/strong responses. You should be prepared to back up, support, respond to any contrasting view points that are going to come.

Soonerqueen nor anyone else backing these mega churches have yet to answer the question. Instead they want to play the victim role. It's very typical of the religious right.

I have decided that I am going to think twice about inviting you all to anything else. I forget you aren't my friends, and some of you always have to bring out the bad in things and can't appreciate the good that is done. It doesn't matter what I post, Bostonfan is right there being very antagonistic and rude to me. I was just wanting to invite you to something I thought you might enjoy. Instead you turn it in to a money thing and have to criticize the church. I was just trying to be nice, but some of you aren't. I won't make this mistake again.

No one criticized you or attacked you aside from Bostonfan, which was dealt with by mmm. Just LifeChurch.TV.

That said, your response was less-than-adequate and really, there are no defenses to these criticisms of LifeChurch.TV because they're pretty much indisputable. It works for some folks, it makes 'em feel good and inspired and such. If the Jeebus Christ laser light show is what floats your boat, I guess that's fine 'n dandy and you're free to promote it (though I question whether an annual sermon series can really be considered a current event).

Never been to Lifechurch.TV so for those that do go, is it pretty legit? Or is it a place for "Snobby" people.

Does anyone know what the "At The Movies" will be for this summer??

Incidentally, I know Lifechurch.TV is not very popular with the Southern Baptist convention mostly because studies show that most young adults are leaving the SBC for the younger, faster, laid back TBN-PTL Club style of Lifechurch.