So, no doubt this attitude quite strongly suggests how many people and their family members have been in splendidly good health and so can't possibly relate to the need for medical marijuana. Ever had a migraine headache? You can't imagine what they're like, until you had one. Some people have noticed their migraine headaches cease after smoking marijuana for a while.

I get that, but Oklahoma is going to pretty apathetic toward medical MJ

I'm not surprised this is struggling. Not because there aren't enough potential voters / signers, but because of the people organizing the effort. This is not a professional campaign organization. This could easily meet the threshold for the ballot with the right leadership.

I get that, but Oklahoma is going to pretty apathetic toward medical MJ

I agree. They should just promote legalization and / or decriminalization.

I don't really care if weed is legal or not, and I'm not going to take time out of my day to go one way or the other on it.

That right there is why they are struggling.

Oh, so you are the keystone of the vox populi? I get it. What you believe is what the voters believe. We should just consult you for your opinion on future issues / candidates, because what you believe represents reality.

Oh, so you are the keystone of the vox populi? I get it. What you believe is what the voters believe. We should just consult you for your opinion on future issues / candidates, because what you believe represents reality.

Based on the success of the petitions so far... yeah.

I'm not surprised this is struggling. Not because there aren't enough potential voters / signers, but because of the people organizing the effort. This is not a professional campaign organization. This could easily meet the threshold for the ballot with the right leadership.

In other words, a pro organization would be able to attract money to pay signature takers? Maybe a non-pro organization could get $250,000 but wouldn't know how to find enough signature takers to employ as well.

The current group with the petition probably should have not split off from and agreed with Oklahomans For Health decision to delay relaunching their petition around March. OFH had not yet felt prepared.

If the petition can get up to 100,000 signatures by mid December, maybe that will inspire more volunteers, hoping they can make the difference. In other words, the snowball effect. As of Nov. 10 signature count is 32,117.

I'm not surprised this is struggling. Not because there aren't enough potential voters / signers, but because of the people organizing the effort. This is not a professional campaign organization. This could easily meet the threshold for the ballot with the right leadership.

Very true. I encountered petitioners outside of CHK arena last week and they were not professional acting or looking. I dont see them getting it done. Better luck to the other group that will give it a go next year. With the extremely low turnout for the last general election (meaning that they need fewer signatures), getting it done before next years presidential election is critical

Correct. It can be addictive. Paper on it: Probability and predictors of transition from first use to dependence on nicotine, alcohol, cannabis, and cocaine: Results of the National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions (NESARC) (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3069146/)

I think it is 17% in teens and 9% in adults. That is not low. People got to realize everything can be addictive and MJ is not some cure all drug.

I think legalization is fine. I don't really care if people use drugs.This cannot be repeated often enough!!! Not enough folk understand that addiction exists in two related but independent varieties. One is psychological in nature and the other is physical.

If one has a tendency toward the psychological variety, anything at all can be addictive. I was quite fortunate that my own addiction to nicotine was of this sort rather than the other -- despite 40 years of smoking, I was finally able to quit, cold turkey, with none of the physical withdrawal symptoms. My wife, on the other hand, had become physically addicted to it and was unable to quit for another 15 years, then suffered physically for quite some time afterward.

It's important to understand -- and accept -- this distinction when dealing with those substances generally thought to be addictive by their nature. Insofar as legalization goes, if one is going to outlaw everything that can be addictive, one must outlaw such things as food! Perhaps those items that are most likely to induce physical addiction could be regulated, but then the question arises of "to what degree" and will always interfere with the individual exercise of free choice. The only points in this debate of which I'm certain are that there's no "one size fits all" answer, and that the current cultural rules fit the canonical definition of insanity: repeatedly following a path that consistently fails to achieve the desired result!

The natural cannabis growing on the river is not the same as the one you grow today either.

Right; the engineered breeds available nowadays are far more effective with much less exposure. A designer strain can produce effects in half a bowl that would have taken a whole joint in a less effective strain. If you ask me, less inhaled smoke producing the same level of high is a good thing.

Very true. I encountered petitioners outside of CHK arena last week and they were not professional acting or looking. I dont see them getting it done. Better luck to the other group that will give it a go next year. With the extremely low turnout for the last general election (meaning that they need fewer signatures), getting it done before next years presidential election is critical

I know they have had a lot of frustration in getting volunteers in Stillwater and OSU. With enough volunteers, pre-game for the tailgating at OSU might be good for a 1000 signatures with a bunch more on the strip after the game. But hardly anyone is out there getting them then. At least, the group seems more extensively organized than the failed petition drive to get storm shelters in schools.

For a week or so I seen some folks at NW Expressway and Meridian taking signatures but they vanished and have not been seen in a while. I know of several people that were going to stop sign the petition (me included) and POOF-they were gone.

If they expect to gain enough sigs they need to be there on a regular basis. People will drive by and think about it for a few days then go to sign and find no one there. I assume they are prob. doing this at other stops also. They have to be there for people to sign or they won't have a chance.

It needs to be professionally run. One of the states that legalized it had an organization that had enough money behind it to be consistent with their locations, hire professional signature-takers, etc. And they won. I doubt any petition here will be successful until something like that happens, sadly.

For a week or so I seen some folks at NW Expressway and Meridian taking signatures but they vanished and have not been seen in a while. I know of several people that were going to stop sign the petition (me included) and POOF-they were gone.

If they expect to gain enough sigs they need to be there on a regular basis. People will drive by and think about it for a few days then go to sign and find no one there. I assume they are prob. doing this at other stops also. They have to be there for people to sign or they won't have a chance.

There's more than a few business locations in OKC that have the petition: Green The Vote Oklahoma in Tulsa, Ok (http://www.greenthevoteok.com/)

This does need better organization.
Around where I'm at, the people sitting on the street corners are waving big black flags with a marijuana leaf and a red caduceus that's kind of hard to see. I have yet to see signs that say anything about it being for medical marijuana purposes, so people just waving a flag around with a big marijuana leaf around probably isn't very enticing.

They'll need over 100,000 signatures minimum to be just barely over the required threshold by the end of December.
I'm not sure why this can't get at least half of the student populations at OU, OSU, TU, and the other universities in the state. Is there a rule against petitioning for this on college campuses? Those should be hot beds. And I can't imagine there are that many out of state residents taking up residence at our universities.

Isaac Caviness, head of the Oklahoma medical marijuana petition drive, to get humanitarian award at state capitol on Dec. 10th. Shown pictured while registering voters in June: Oklahoma medical marijuana advocate to receive humanitarian award | www.krmg.com (http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/oklahoma-medical-marijuana-advocate-receive-humani/npPyc/#cmComments). The publicity will be good for signatures, but enough of them? As with Caviness, too often the situation has to hit close to home and the heart before anybody wants to do something about it.

http://okmedicalmarijuana.org/images/caviness.jpg

Face it, people. There is a severe lack of compassion in Oklahoma, which explains why the current medical marijuana petition is so miserably failing in getting enough signatures. As I see it, it arises from the lack of people who have children with epilepsy. It comes from the lack of people who have lupus. It comes from the lack of people who discovered their migraine headaches stopped after for the first time smoking marijuana regularly. It comes from the lack of people who have MS. It comes from a lack of veterans with PTHD. It comes from the lack of people who have constant pain, due to fibromyalgia. It comes from the lack of people with inoperable brain tumors. And on and on it goes.

If enough Oklahoma state legislators could relate to the above, then medical marijuana would have been legal by now. But my state senator several years ago admitted before a town hall meeting that he had been living under a rock when it comes to knowing about marijuana. At least, I haven't been in perfect health all my life and can relate to what medical marijuana can be about and so can have some compassion for others, who think it can do them a lot of good.

Face it, people. There is a severe lack of compassion in Oklahoma.I disagree with this. I think we demonstrate, daily, that as a state we have more compassion than the average bear.

The problem, I think, is that we have been brainwashed since childhood with terror tales about That Old Debbil Pot.

Never mind that some of the greatest musicians of our time depended on it to hone their reflexes (think Krupa, Satchmo, who knows who else). Never mind its documented medical properties.

When the evils have been drummed into us from the cradle, we know what we know and never mind the facts.

Take a leaf from the religious right and bring up the children. Not until then will you succeed!

I disagree with this. I think we demonstrate, daily, that as a state we have more compassion than the average bear.

The problem, I think, is that we have been brainwashed since childhood with terror tales about That Old Debbil Pot.

Never mind that some of the greatest musicians of our time depended on it to hone their reflexes (think Krupa, Satchmo, who knows who else). Never mind its documented medical properties.

When the evils have been drummed into us from the cradle, we know what we know and never mind the facts.

Take a leaf from the religious right and bring up the children. Not until then will you succeed!

I agree 100%. IMO OK will be one of the last states to get on board. And law enforcement officials will fight this all the way. They don't care if it can help people. Their goal is to lock up as many people as possible.

I disagree with this. I think we demonstrate, daily, that as a state we have more compassion than the average bear.

The problem, I think, is that we have been brainwashed since childhood with terror tales about That Old Debbil Pot.

Never mind that some of the greatest musicians of our time depended on it to hone their reflexes (think Krupa, Satchmo, who knows who else). Never mind its documented medical properties.

When the evils have been drummed into us from the cradle, we know what we know and never mind the facts.

Take a leaf from the religious right and bring up the children. Not until then will you succeed!

Bunty makes several great points that are certainly true. However, I have to agree with you Jim, that I don't believe Oklahoma lacks compassion, per se.
I can see how until certain issues personally affect legislators or more people (which, honestly we don't want that scenario), there will be little movement on health progress. But, I don't necessarily think we can grade the entire state's overall level of compassion just on this issue. Perhaps we can, but I just don't think so.

We have too many people who have been brainwashed via the Drug War, it's that simple. It's beyond health, it's the fact that it's vile in the eyes of many.
Even if we were to get the signatures, it'd be another battle when it comes to the vote.


I agree 100%. IMO OK will be one of the last states to get on board. And law enforcement officials will fight this all the way. They don't care if it can help people. Their goal is to lock up as many people as possible.

This is still something I agree with (actually, both your points), despite national trends.
Think about it, just 10 years ago we were the last state to have legalized tattooing...
Let that sink in.

I see hundreds of cars that pass these petition stands and people are always looking, but they don't get out and sign. I'm telling you, people are afraid to get out and sign for fear of who might see them, because, you know, it's a super evil and bad thing (as they drink their beer every night and smoke their cigarettes).

The problem, I think, is that we have been brainwashed since childhood with terror tales about That Old Debbil Pot.


I think this is key right here. Most people are not critical thinkers and will stick to what they've been told their entire life, and that is that marijuana is dangerous, a gateway drug, and only used by lowlifes and thus should remain illegal. This is especially true among the older generation which is why the polls show a more lax attitude towards marijuana than the laws reflect.

It's the same thing with the temperance movement of the late 19th and early 20th century that resulted in alcohol prohibition. An entire generation was raised to view alcohol as evil and that belief persisted long after prohibition ended. In Oklahoma, many of those things are still being dealt with today.

(as they drink their beer every night and smoke their cigarettes).

Tu 'cane,
Wow, what a broad brush you paint with! I agree with a lot you say, but that was uncalled for. Besides, beer and cigarettes are legal, whether we like it or not. I know a lot of folks (and not all of them old) that don't drink or smoke but aren't for legalized marijuana. Not strongly against it, but not willing to support legalization. I have a problem with it because it's against federal law. I wanted to try it when I was in Amsterdam because I thought it was legal. Turns out it isn't legal, but it is "tolerated" and I'm just not the type to break the laws of any country, so I have still never used marijuana. By the way, I'm strongly for decriminalization.
C. T.

Tu 'cane,
Wow, what a broad brush you paint with! I agree with a lot you say, but that was uncalled for. Besides, beer and cigarettes are legal, whether we like it or not. I know a lot of folks (and not all of them old) that don't drink or smoke but aren't for legalized marijuana. Not strongly against it, but not willing to support legalization. I have a problem with it because it's against federal law. I wanted to try it when I was in Amsterdam because I thought it was legal. Turns out it isn't legal, but it is "tolerated" and I'm just not the type to break the laws of any country, so I have still never used marijuana. By the way, I'm strongly for decriminalization.
C. T.

With respect, there is nothing in my post that was uncalled for.
I was calling out everyone who drinks alcohol and smokes cigarettes but wants to judge those who smoke marijuana or who won't get out and sign a petition for legalization. I bring that up because more people than we think do either or both, despite the fact that there have been a multitude of studies to suggest and prove how dangerous both are. And, I'm sure most of us on here have seen the numbers, but both alcohol and tobacco kill hundreds of thousands every year, how many for marijuana?
It's hypocritical, and that was my point, which played into what Bunty was talking about regarding people being oblivious to the health benefits.

And I'm certainly not standing on a pedestal, as I consume both of the aforementioned.

With respect, there is nothing in my post that was uncalled for.


TU 'cane,
Sorry, the problem with selecting a portion of your comment was that I left some out that would show what I was talking about. "I see hundreds of cars that pass these petition stands and people are always looking, but they don't get out and sign. I'm telling you, people are afraid to get out and sign for fear of who might see them, because, you know, it's a super evil and bad thing (as they drink their beer every night and smoke their cigarettes)". It appeared that you were saying everybody that was afraid to sign the petition were going home to drink and smoke. You say that was not your intent. Sorry about the misunderstanding. I still remind you that two are legal, one is not. And I too partake in one, I quit the other December, 1999.
C. T.

No worries, I figured we were just misunderstanding one another. It happens.

... I have a problem with it because it's against federal law. ...
C. T.

You do realize that the reason(s) it's against federal law are pretty much based on lies, racism, protecting the profits of newspapers, etc., and not for any real, actual dangerous-to-people facts, right?

Why is Marijuana Illegal? « Drug WarRant (http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal/)

"Many people assume that marijuana was made illegal through some kind of process involving scientific, medical, and government hearings; that it was to protect the citizens from what was determined to be a dangerous drug.

The actual story shows a much different picture. Those who voted on the legal fate of this plant never had the facts, but were dependent on information supplied by those who had a specific agenda to deceive lawmakers. You’ll see below that the very first federal vote to prohibit marijuana was based entirely on a documented lie on the floor of the Senate.

You’ll also see that the history of marijuana’s criminalization is filled with:

Racism
Fear
Protection of Corporate Profits
Yellow Journalism
Ignorant, Incompetent, and/or Corrupt Legislators
Personal Career Advancement and Greed

These are the actual reasons marijuana is illegal."

You do realize that the reason(s) it's against federal law are pretty much based on lies, racism, protecting the profits of newspapers, etc., and not for any real, actual dangerous-to-people facts, right?

Why is Marijuana Illegal? « Drug WarRant (http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal/)

"Many people assume that marijuana was made illegal through some kind of process involving scientific, medical, and government hearings; that it was to protect the citizens from what was determined to be a dangerous drug.

The actual story shows a much different picture. Those who voted on the legal fate of this plant never had the facts, but were dependent on information supplied by those who had a specific agenda to deceive lawmakers. You’ll see below that the very first federal vote to prohibit marijuana was based entirely on a documented lie on the floor of the Senate.

You’ll also see that the history of marijuana’s criminalization is filled with:

Racism
Fear
Protection of Corporate Profits
Yellow Journalism
Ignorant, Incompetent, and/or Corrupt Legislators
Personal Career Advancement and Greed

These are the actual reasons marijuana is illegal."


The American people were scammed once again.

Oh, Traveller, you're making the rest of us blush :o

You do realize that the reason(s) it's against federal law are pretty much based on lies, racism, protecting the profits of newspapers, etc., and not for any real, actual dangerous-to-people facts, right?

Why is Marijuana Illegal? « Drug WarRant (http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal/)

"Many people assume that marijuana was made illegal through some kind of process involving scientific, medical, and government hearings; that it was to protect the citizens from what was determined to be a dangerous drug.

The actual story shows a much different picture. Those who voted on the legal fate of this plant never had the facts, but were dependent on information supplied by those who had a specific agenda to deceive lawmakers. You’ll see below that the very first federal vote to prohibit marijuana was based entirely on a documented lie on the floor of the Senate.

You’ll also see that the history of marijuana’s criminalization is filled with:

Racism
Fear
Protection of Corporate Profits
Yellow Journalism
Ignorant, Incompetent, and/or Corrupt Legislators
Personal Career Advancement and Greed

These are the actual reasons marijuana is illegal."

TheTravellers,
Nothing you say can change the fact that if I were to use marijuana, I would be breaking the law. We are a country of laws, and if I, one single individual can break the laws that don't please me, and 300+ million people picked and chose which laws they would abide by and the ones they would ignore, what would our country be? Chaotic and doomed! If you don't like the law, change it, otherwise, abide by it.
C. T.

"protecting the profits of newspapers"

Gotta ask out of curiosity.... how?

Nevermind.... found it.

TheTravellers,
Nothing you say can change the fact that if I were to use marijuana, I would be breaking the law. We are a country of laws, and if I, one single individual can break the laws that don't please me, and 300+ million people picked and chose which laws they would abide by and the ones they would ignore, what would our country be? Chaotic and doomed! If you don't like the law, change it, otherwise, abide by it.
C. T.

Wow, we will never see eye-to-eye on things like this with your unwavering allegiance to "the law". Yes, you would be breaking a law, but you would be breaking a law that was born out of lies and other unethical things, is unreasonable, is outdated, is responsible for waaaaaaaaaaay too many people being in prison, as well as enriching law enforcement with asset seizure.

Y'know that whole civil disobedience thing a few decades ago? I'm pretty glad a bunch of people decided to ignore/break some laws instead of just obeying them....

There are reasons to disobey unjust/wrong laws instead of just always following them, and yes, I'm working on changing the marijuana laws.

My 80'ish year old uncle a right wing law and order type was always dead set against pot until he tried an edible not too long ago. Now he'll tell ya how wrong his opposition was and how much it has improved his quality of life. And what a shame he's now a daily law breaker for only trying to feel better.

This pot legalization thing is a no brainier.

My 80'ish year old uncle a right wing law and order type was always dead set against pot until he tried an edible not too long ago. Now he'll tell ya how wrong his opposition was and how much it has improved his quality of life. And what a shame he's now a daily law breaker for only trying to feel better.

This pot legalization thing is a no brainier.

I would say that most people with chronic daily pain would benefit from breaking this law. The influential Publishing Co's and others,timber,textiles ect ect. paid to have Pot deemed a bad drug years ago. I seriously doubt that law would be passed today but people back then had limited info. and limited access to news so the big city newspapers could pretty much control the masses with their propaganda.

But we are in Oklahoma and are way behind times compared to other parts of the country and I would be shocked if OK. wasn't one of the last states to get on board. So as of today you smoke Pot you are breaking the law and go directly to jail. So we build a new jail to get all these bad law breakers off the streets..

Wow, we will never see eye-to-eye on things like this with your unwavering allegiance to "the law". Yes, you would be breaking a law, but you would be breaking a law that was born out of lies and other unethical things, is unreasonable, is outdated, is responsible for waaaaaaaaaaay too many people being in prison, as well as enriching law enforcement with asset seizure.

Y'know that whole civil disobedience thing a few decades ago? I'm pretty glad a bunch of people decided to ignore/break some laws instead of just obeying them....

There are reasons to disobey unjust/wrong laws instead of just always following them, and yes, I'm working on changing the marijuana laws.

I was raised to follow the rules and obey the laws, there is nothing wrong with civil discourse, but the bottom line is, as I said, we are a country of laws.
"If it be asked, What is the most sacred duty and the greatest source of our security in a Republic? The answer would be, An inviolable respect for the Constitution and Laws — the first growing out of the last." —Alexander Hamilton, 1794".
Breaking them is not the way our system is supposed to work, changing them is. I mentioned earlier that I am strongly in favor of decriminalizing the use of marijuana. How many countries have legalized it? Not being argumentative, I'm actually curious. And of course, what other countries do has no bearing on what we do here, so don't jump on me for my curiosity. Also, I'm curious about what you are referring to when you say "Y'know that whole civil disobedience thing a few decades ago? I'm pretty glad a bunch of people decided to ignore/break some laws instead of just obeying them....".
C. T.

With adult use polling at 58% nationally, up from 51% just last year, it's only a matter of time.

I have little faith that the 2016 initiatives will make the ballot in Oklahoma, but 2020 could be a different story.

I'm curious about what you are referring to when you say "Y'know that whole civil disobedience thing a few decades ago? I'm pretty glad a bunch of people decided to ignore/break some laws instead of just obeying them....".
C. T.
He's referring to such things as the Katz Drug sit-in here in OKC, as Rosa Parks's refusal to go to the back of the bus, as the entire philosophy of Dr. Martin Luther King. Need I continue? When I was in school, The Law prohibited black children from attending the same school as whites, or even using the same drinking fountains. Civil disobedience is what exposed those laws for what they were, and led to their abolition.

For that matter, all of our Founding Fathers blatantly broke the law of the land when they rebelled against English rule and declared our independence. So did Abe Lincoln when he chose to suspend the (constitutionally guaranteed) right of habeas corpus during the War Between The States.

Slavish obedience to bad law is NOT good citizenship. It simply perpetuates injustice.

I was raised to follow the rules and obey the laws, there is nothing wrong with civil discourse, but the bottom line is, as I said, we are a country of laws.

The "a country of laws" thing is a soundbite, and that's it. What established nation isn't "a country of laws?" What country announces itself as a lawless nation?

Some laws are good and necessary, and some are examples of overreach and excessive control over the populace. The latter need to be broken by many, many people until opponents of said laws are able to get a word in edgewise in the legislative process. If people weren't exercising their natural right to civil disobedience, what chance would there be of lawmakers being convinced something has to change? If nobody smoked grass...if everybody respected the prohibition, then there would be zero compelling reason for the laws to be changed. Why lift the prohibition on something nobody seems to be using anyway?

Civil Disobedience, to me, would imply lighting up a joint in front of the police headquarters and demanding to be arrested (with 30 of your friends).

Smoking at home, in private, is just breaking the law. I don't judge. But don't claim some social warrior status for breaking the law in secret and bragging about it.

He's referring to such things as the Katz Drug sit-in here in OKC, as Rosa Parks's refusal to go to the back of the bus, as the entire philosophy of Dr. Martin Luther King. Need I continue? When I was in school, The Law prohibited black children from attending the same school as whites, or even using the same drinking fountains. Civil disobedience is what exposed those laws for what they were, and led to their abolition.

For that matter, all of our Founding Fathers blatantly broke the law of the land when they rebelled against English rule and declared our independence. So did Abe Lincoln when he chose to suspend the (constitutionally guaranteed) right of habeas corpus during the War Between The States.

Slavish obedience to bad law is NOT good citizenship. It simply perpetuates injustice.

Jim,
I didn't consider any of that as "a few decades ago", Katz Drug was in 1958 I believe, I was here when that was going on, close to 60 years ago and Selma was in the very early 60's, so that was why I asked the question. During these difficult times, there were mostly legal protests and marches (and of course, the mostly illegal activities by the segregationists), and then the civil rights act during the Johnston administration. So, it's not all about breaking laws, it's about changing them. By the way comparing marijuana issues with the declaration of independence (over human rights issues), the civil rights movement, and president Lincoln is truly apples and oranges. I'm a little younger than you and I don't remember the "separate" drinking fountains but we did have separate schools (separate, but equal).
C. T.

Civil Disobedience, to me, would imply lighting up a joint in front of the police headquarters and demanding to be arrested (with 30 of your friends).

Smoking at home, in private, is just breaking the law. I don't judge. But don't claim some social warrior status for breaking the law in secret and bragging about it.

Great, thanks for your perspective.

Great, thanks for your perspective.

Helpful and productive comment.

Thoreau, who is credited with the concept of civil disobedience, went to jail over his refusal to a poll tax, because it supported the system of slavery. He said he felt more free in jail practicing civil disobedience than he did cooperating with a system that continued an injustice.

Merely breaking the law in private does nothing to change the law. Protests, sit ins, smoke outs, those are examples of civil disobedience. Sitting in your front room lighting a doobie isn't really "sticking it to the man". It's like speeding on a country road when no one is around.

Helpful and productive comment.

Thoreau, who is credited with the concept of civil disobedience, went to jail over his refusal to a poll tax, because it supported the system of slavery. He said he felt more free in jail practicing civil disobedience than he did cooperating with a system that continued an injustice.

Merely breaking the law in private does nothing to change the law. Protests, sit ins, smoke outs, those are examples of civil disobedience. Sitting in your front room lighting a doobie isn't really "sticking it to the man". It's like speeding on a country road when no one is around.

People do it, and people get caught. If people are doing it in increasing numbers, and thus taxing the system of repercussions, this brings awareness to the fact that this is something that people want to do.

It's not as though if you're not blowing smoke in a cop's face, the government won't know that marijuana is being consumed. But to reiterate my point, if nobody is using, there's no incentive to lift prohibition.

People do it, and people get caught. If people are doing it in increasing numbers, and thus taxing the system of repercussions, this brings awareness to the fact that this is something that people want to do.

It's not as though if you're not blowing smoke in a cop's face, the government won't know that marijuana is being consumed. But to reiterate my point, if nobody is using, there's no incentive to lift prohibition.

That's kind of what I thinking as well. You both a have a point.

Civil Disobedience, to me, would imply lighting up a joint in front of the police headquarters and demanding to be arrested (with 30 of your friends)....

Y'know, in almost any other state than OK, I might consider trying this. In OK, you'd probably get beaten horribly, sexually assaulted by the cops, thrown in the depths of the county jail, and every single one of yours and your family's assets seized.

Y'know, in almost any other state than OK, I might consider trying this. In OK, you'd probably get beaten horribly, sexually assaulted by the cops, thrown in the depths of the county jail, and every single one of yours and your family's assets seized.
It would probably need people coming in from out of state as was the case with the Freedom Riders attempting, without success, to complete a bus ride through the deep south of the early 1960s. They weren't afraid of getting beat up and certainly did, while eventually accomplishing a more important goal.

To get real for now, it would be nice if people from out of state would come in and help with the medical marijuana petition as there is a shortage of dedicated volunteers in Oklahoma City, Tulsa and elsewhere. Around 50 of the nearly 700 registered volunteers are doing most of the work.

As Brian Bates pointed out before, child molesters sometimes get a better deal from the Oklahoma justice system. If I wasn't such a homebody with little desire to explore the world, I would have left Oklahoma well before now: Cleveland County; Craigslist child molester serves only 75-weeks in prison for abusing autistic 6yr old | JohnTV (http://johntv.com/teddy-davis-released-2014/)

Someone is trying to help from out of state, a medical marijuana activist from Las Vegas. So far, I will have 6 raffle tickets.

http://okieworld.com/images/lvgtv.jpg

The medical marijuana petition is still running well behind with little over 42,000 signatures processed at the office. Surely, many of the volunteers have become discouraged. I don't see how it can be saved without quite a startling miracle.

Boren, if he is allowed to get his petition launched to raise state sales tax to increase funding for education, had best be greatly concerned about that low signature number, unless he knows how he can raise at least $500,000, but probably more like $1 million, to raise up an army of PAID signature takers. Maybe a good number of people would come in from out of state, if the pay was great enough.

Back to medical marijuana, I don't see how the situation for it can be improved in Oklahoma, unless the state legislature in next session votes to decriminalize small amounts of marijuana. That way, anyone, including those using it for medical purposes, don't have to face being in big trouble over a few joints. In some places, law enforcement is liable to take it that one might be a kingpin drug dealer of the county and get a search warrant to raid suspect's house to get more evidence to establish their case. Few Oklahoma law enforcement people have sympathy for sick people, who feel they need to use medical marijuana. Having compassion isn't a job requirement for LE.

So for those who follow these trends, what state bordering Oklahoma do you think will be the first to legalize marijuana. In my own prediction, marijuana prohibition will be like tattoos and 3.2 beer in Oklahoma and will remain on the books long after most of the rest of the nation has done away with it. However, I would be shocked if one of the border states did not legalize it within the next 15 years. My bet is on Missouri. New Mexico might beat them to the punch, but the border they share with Oklahoma is about as minuscule as the border between Oklahoma and Colorado.

Arkansas is very similar to Oklahoma politically so I can't see it happening there. They voted down medical marijuana back in 2012 by a pretty hefty margin. Texas might do it but there would be a lot of resistance from the rural areas and smaller cities there. The influx of latinos and millennials might make it happen as the state becomes more purple, much like in Colorado.

Another question is what will happen with Oklahoma's marijuana possession laws as more states legalize it? My guess is penalties, which currently are among the strictest in the nation, will start being reduced long before legalization ever happens here.

Thoughts?

I would peg New Mexico as the next OK-bordering state to fully legalize. Missouri or Texas would follow; remember Texas is turning rather purple, so they may surprise us with reasonable legislation in the not-too-distant future. But as of now, New Mexico strikes me as our most reasonable neighbor.

If it wasn't illegal federally I might agree with you. It's not going to be like tattoos, whatever folks delude themselves into thinking.

It's like assuming there's gonna be a mass wave a LSD and ACID legalization.

I'm going to email my legislators tonight endorsing medical marijuana legalization (for starters). It's time to start pressing the people we elect to make these, in my mind, necessary changes.
The folks who've been handling the booths around Tulsa have vanished over the past week, I haven't seen them anywhere. They've either moved to entirely different areas or have given up now that it's December and we're lacking 80,000~ signatures.

Shameful. But, I strongly encourage everyone here who supports this effort to email/call your state representative and senator and request that discussions be had and bills introduced.

Naturally, it'll help if we tack in increased sales taxes, medical benefits, and tourism if something like this is passed. Also, it won't hurt to throw in the fact that Oklahoma has been last or towards last in legalizing other things, so it would be nice to see our state buck the trend.

If all of us here start emails now, and then ask at least one other person to do the same (contact their legislators), then the pressure may be felt and we may just end up seeing a bill introduced this next session. Unlikely, but it's possible.

Don't forget the lowering of costs in law enforcement and punishments/incarceration and courts.

Although this may all be pointless. We have no idea on the next president's position on enforcement.

Although this may all be pointless. We have no idea on the next president's position on enforcement.

Fair point; if we get some windbag like Chris Christie in the White House, all progress could be undone overnight.

Fair point; if we get some windbag like Chris Christie in the White House, all progress could be undone overnight.

I don't think we need to get that specific. Besides Sanders, has any candidate been specific on their view on enforcing federal laws regarding pot?

Don't forget the lowering of costs in law enforcement and punishments/incarceration and courts.


Although this may all be pointless. We have no idea on the next president's position on enforcement.

Yes, yes, good points.
One point on the federal aspect, depending on which direction of the spectrum you come from (although this isn't really a partisan issue, or shouldn't be in my mind), state nullification has been effective. And before anyone argues against or says it's never been done, keep in mind that for all general arguments sake that Colorado and Washington basically overrode federal law with their marijuana policies.
I know that's going to strike a few chords, but more or less they legalized it and told the federal government that they were going to step back and let things run.


I don't think we need to get that specific. Besides Sanders, has any candidate been specific on their view on enforcing federal laws regarding pot?

I just did a brief scan so someone can correct me, but I saw Rand Paul was one of the few taking a stand in favor of decriminalization and thinks that throwing pot offenders in prison as "ridiculous."

Not sure who else besides the two mentioned here.

I don't think we need to get that specific. Besides Sanders, has any candidate been specific on their view on enforcing federal laws regarding pot?

From memory, Rand Paul and Sanders are strongly in the same camp when it comes to this topic. If I remember correctly, Trump said he'd honor the states' wishes and legislation (correct me if I'm wrong). But some candidates have boldly said if they're in charge, marijuana legalization at the state level will be brought to a halt. Christie is the most obvious source of this sentiment, which is why I named him.

From memory, Rand Paul and Sanders are strongly in the same camp when it comes to this topic. If I remember correctly, Trump said he'd honor the states' wishes and legislation (correct me if I'm wrong). But some candidates have boldly said if they're in charge, marijuana legalization at the state level will be brought to a halt. Christie is the most obvious source of this sentiment, which is why I named him.

Putting someone in jail for having a small amount of pot is insane. Seems like law enforcement should have better things to do than chasing pot heads around. In fact they are wasting too much time and way too many dollars taking pot offenders to court. Then if convicted they could possibly have a felony on their record and be ruined for life, over smoking some pot. I mean think about that. It is seriously insane. I assume if someone gets caught with a joint several times it turns into a felony,correct?

Putting someone in jail for having a small amount of pot is insane. Seems like law enforcement should have better things to do than chasing pot heads around. In fact they are wasting too much time and way too many dollars taking pot offenders to court. Then if convicted they could possibly have a felony on their record and be ruined for life, over smoking some pot. I mean think about that. It is seriously insane. I assume if someone gets caught with a joint several times it turns into a felony,correct?

You're preaching to the choir. When I was 19, I was busted with probably no more than a gram of marijuana and slapped with a misdemeanor, resulting in a 6 month revocation of my drivers license. The guy that was driving was arrested as well, but the small town cops helped him out since when searching his car, they found a Bible under his seat, and as they told him, they "know it won't happen again." But my own heavy metal aesthetic and pagan/Satanic themed jewelry damned me to the ill wishes of Barney Fife, and half a year of getting rides to and from work, as well as DUI classes and the cost of reinstatement.

Digressing, it's absolutely absurd to ruin people's lives because they want to burn a plant for its relatively safe and brief intoxicating effects.

And yes, possession is a misdemeanor the first time, but I think subsequent arrests result in felony charges.

Although this may all be pointless. We have no idea on the next president's position on enforcement.

This is why it needs to be rescheduled before Obama leaves office. If a Republican gets in, I won't be surprised if the days of legal weed in Colorado and other states are over. The GOP is all for states rights on their issues (like gay marriage) but they throw a fit if a state wants to do something like legalize marijuana.