we need serious tree planting and maintenance. Let's benchmark what Tulsa has done.

Let's also make and enforce CODE and force developers to build aesthetically.

That storm last fall didn't help the tree situation at all. So many need to be replanted.

we need serious tree planting and maintenance. Let's benchmark what Tulsa has done.

Let's also make and enforce CODE and force developers to build aesthetically.
Code enforcement is one thing. Dictating aesthetic choice is another. Whose idea of aesthetics reigns?

Code enforcement is one thing. Dictating aesthetic choice is another. Whose idea of aesthetics reigns?

+1

And the market tends to sort out aesthetics. Much higher valuations placed on sharp looking units, like at Wheeler, for example

Yeah, I don't like the idea of forcing developers to build one way or another. Personally, when I move to my next house, it won't have any trees, or I'll have them all cut down. Big ones at least. Big trees are a hassle

Chris, buy one without trees and save the house with the big trees for someone who really wants them. Problem solved. Actually if you look in a newer subdivision then you are less likely to find a place with huge trees. I love my large trees on my acreage.

Actually, trees and landscaping add additional "value" to your home. In addition, it provides shade, oxygen and filters out harmful rays from the sun. Another important thing it does is add beauty to the landscape. OKC needs a more dense urban canopy to provide aesthetics and beautification!

House price appreciation is good for mortgage companies.

Who is helping renters transition to ownership?

The OKC housing market is insane. My son is looking for a house and the price of a place he wanted a year ago has jumped 20% in under a year. Builders are only being given quotes for materials that valid for *two weeks* because of price volatility. My son has put bids in on four houses, even offering some $ to cover an appraisal gap (apparently pretty common right now) but has lost on all of them. A neighbor put his house up at what I thought was too high a price even in this market but sold it in 12 hours for 10% over his asking for cash. No appraisal. It's insane.

The OKC housing market is insane. My son is looking for a house and the price of a place he wanted a year ago has jumped 20% in under a year. Builders are only being given quotes for materials that valid for *two weeks* because of price volatility. My son has put bids in on four houses, even offering some $ to cover an appraisal gap (apparently pretty common right now) but has lost on all of them. A neighbor put his house up at what I thought was too high a price even in this market but sold it in 12 hours for 10% over his asking for cash. No appraisal. It's insane.

One of my friends just sold her house, and out of 10 offers, half were investor buyers with cash. I don't know why, but having that many "investors" trying to buy houses around here kinda bugs me. Luckily, she sold to a small local family.

One of my friends just sold her house, and out of 10 offers, half were investor buyers with cash. I don't know why, but having that many "investors" trying to buy houses around here kinda bugs me. Luckily, she sold to a small local family.

So people renting homes is going to be more popular than buying them?

So people renting homes is going to be more popular than buying them?

Or buying, updating and flipping.

I see it all over my neighborhood... There is a big premium on homes in established neighborhoods that have modern kitchens and bathrooms.

So, what am I missing? Investors are buying high? Also, people are paying over appraisal, not getting an appraisal or paying the difference in cash? To me, it seems like a bad time to buy, unless you have to. What happens when the market equalizes or the bubble bursts?

What goes up...............must come down.

I don't really understand why people just don't sit back and wait it out. Well I do kind of with DYers bored at home with a stimulus check to spend. But building a new house in this environment, why?

I think some investors convinced themselves that this "new normal" of staying at home 24/7 is here to stay. I will take the other end of that bet.

There are a couple of "nimble" families in my neighborhood who are selling or sold their houses for a price $100k or more than they could have last year, then looking to buy at a significantly lower price in a year or 2.

Houses go up and go down in the short-term, but always, always up in the mid to longer term.

Jumping in and out or waiting for a hoped-for better time only makes sense if you have a very short-term view, which is a bad way to approach buying any house.

I would usually agree but Im not sure after some areas here have seen 20 -30% increases in the past year. There has to be some pullback once the supply chain gets upright and certainly if we see a few points of rate increase.

^

I"m not so sure.

I think appreciation might stay a bit flat for a year or two but I seriously doubt prices will drop.

I would usually agree but Im not sure after some areas here have seen 20 -30% increases in the past year. There has to be some pullback once the supply chain gets upright and certainly if we see a few points of rate increase.

The only mitigating factor might be interest rates, but I don't see us ever going back to the days of 15% interest rates on a 30-year mortgage.

The only other scenario that would lead to price deflation in OKC would be a total economic bust situation that lasts for several years, leading to depopulation.

Do you think OKC is going to stop growing, or worse, lose population? I don't.

That being said, people who are paying above ask and above appraisal could be making a major financial mistake.

If rates go up to 6-7%, l bet home buying slows significantly and only slowly picks up - especially if the rate rises quickly. I've seen it happen more than once. If a severe slowdown happens due to rising interest rates, home prices will back off. As it is today, it's all supply and demand.

I would usually agree but Im not sure after some areas here have seen 20 -30% increases in the past year. There has to be some pullback once the supply chain gets upright and certainly if we see a few points of rate increase.

These seem to be isolated incidences, not the trend of the overall housing market.

I"ve had several appraisals and my house didn't go up that much after strong gains over the last 5 years. The house next to me just sold quickly, but not at some crazy price.

You could make a strong argument that OKC-area housing has simply been undervalued which means there is not a bubble, just a correction.

The real test is when new homes start being produced in mass quantities again.

According to some real estate economist I listened to a few weeks ago, most believe it will flat line after the appreciation for a few years, then go back to normal increases.

Apart from the financial crash of 2008, houses usually don't go down in price.

And even then, housing came back stronger than ever not long afterward.

The real test is when new homes start being produced in mass quantities again.

We should see a lot of supple come online. I've heard some residential developers are paying more that they typically would for land just to get sticks out of the ground.

16891

Single-family permits have continued to increase since 2017 and 2020 experienced a 23.2% increase from 5,474 in 2019 to 6,742 in 2020. Q1 2021 has a year-over-year increase of 37% and 2020 had the highest number of single family permits since 2006.

We should see a lot of supple come online. I've heard some residential developers are paying more that they typically would for land just to get sticks out of the ground.

16891

Single-family permits have continued to increase since 2017 and 2020 experienced a 23.2% increase from 5,474 in 2019 to 6,742 in 2020. Q1 2021 has a year-over-year increase of 37% and 2020 had the highest number of single family permits since 2006.

Thanks for posting that graph. I've wondered how many houses were built in the metro since I moved here in 2013. By contrast, the county I moved here from had 78 residential building permits filed in March, which is the highest monthly total since at least 2015.

Can someone help me find [the address] of a house that was recently built in Nichols Hills? It was ultra modern and for sale for the last yearish. I think it finally sold, but I am curious what it sold for and for the life of me I cannot find it on realtor sites or even just cruising streetviews (likely outdated).

It was white with modern metal structure elements. it had two gas-lit torch column things at the entrance, it was extremely unique for the area.

Can someone help me find [the address] of a house that was recently built in Nichols Hills? It was ultra modern and for sale for the last yearish. I think it finally sold, but I am curious what it sold for and for the life of me I cannot find it on realtor sites or even just cruising streetviews (likely outdated).

It was white with modern metal structure elements. it had two gas-lit torch column things at the entrance, it was extremely unique for the area.

1303 Bedford Drive, Nichols Hills, OK 73116 ?

1303 Bedford Drive, Nichols Hills, OK 73116 ?

Here is a photo; it last sold in 2015 for $1.1 million; was listed at $3.95M last July but doesn't look like it sold.

https://photos.zillowstatic.com/fp/c0e17cce632ec1b74ddfaaad42c2968a-uncropped_scaled_within_1344_1008.webp

^^ Same family that built it lives there. They put it on the market for I want to say around $4.50mm, but it never sold.

Yes that is the one! No wonder I couldn't find it under the recently solds.

What an amazing home. Thank you for finding that so quickly!

EDIT: nevermind! i was too slow on the draw... would've never found that as it doesn't register as "ultra modern" to me. : )

perhaps one of these? is this at least the style you're describing?

2737 Guilford Ln, Oklahoma City, OK 73120 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2737-Guilford-Ln-Oklahoma-City-OK-73120/21879242_zpid/?)

7609 Dorset Dr, Nichols Hills, OK 73116 | Zillow (https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7609-Dorset-Dr-Nichols-Hills-OK-73116/22009109_zpid/?)

Homes like that show that if you get greedy in the market, you still won't make the sale. And even Nichols Hills in this market, nope. Too much.

I was originally looking to buy right now, but the market is too high for me to want to purchase pre-owned, so I got in before the lumber went up and went with building instead.

Our home sold in 3 days at above asking. It's nuts. I never would have thought about a home selling in that short of a time. I have seen homes in my neighborhood go like that over the last few years, but it doesn't sink in until it's you.

Contrast that with some other places. Take this one for example: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/204-S-Riverside-Dr-Moore-OK-73160/69084726_zpid/
It was on radar at least when we first started looking to buy. But the owner posted this thing for something like 600k. Yes it has land, yes its in good condition. But NOTHING anywhere near it is going for anything close to that. They gave up after a few months (which if you haven't sold in a few months in this market, it tells you that it's overpriced by a LOT). Then they decided to flip to renting. 3800 a month....nope. No one is going to take that either.....and haven't. This is the type of greedy that happens when you're trying to re-coupe a bad investment and you can't suck it up that you overpaid and now are going to lose your shirt on it. Yes the market is crazy right now. But people wont do just anything when there are other options around. You still have to be fair on your posting price.

Homes like that show that if you get greedy in the market, you still won't make the sale. And even Nichols Hills in this market, nope. Too much.

I was originally looking to buy right now, but the market is too high for me to want to purchase pre-owned, so I got in before the lumber went up and went with building instead.

Our home sold in 3 days at above asking. It's nuts. I never would have thought about a home selling in that short of a time. I have seen homes in my neighborhood go like that over the last few years, but it doesn't sink in until it's you.

Contrast that with some other places. Take this one for example: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/204-S-Riverside-Dr-Moore-OK-73160/69084726_zpid/
It was on radar at least when we first started looking to buy. But the owner posted this thing for something like 600k. Yes it has land, yes its in good condition. But NOTHING anywhere near it is going for anything close to that. They gave up after a few months (which if you haven't sold in a few months in this market, it tells you that it's overpriced by a LOT). Then they decided to flip to renting. 3800 a month....nope. No one is going to take that either.....and haven't. This is the type of greedy that happens when you're trying to re-coupe a bad investment and you can't suck it up that you overpaid and now are going to lose your shirt on it. Yes the market is crazy right now. But people wont do just anything when there are other options around. You still have to be fair on your posting price.

MLS says it sold March 29th, 2021 for $455K. 4 days later it was posted for lease at $3800/month.

Well looks like they had to bring it down over 100k to sell it then. 455 seems a reasonable offer for that property, at least to me.

Here’s a recent list (https://www.builderonline.com/land/local-leaders-list/2021/) of the top 50 housing markets.


Dallas was number 1.

My home of San Antonio was number 6.

Oklahoma City was 33.

^
To be fair, that is for the hottest markets for home building, and the top builders in each, not for the housing market in general.

^
To be fair, that is for the hottest markets for home building, and the top builders in each, not for the housing market in general.

That is correct. I should have elaborated and put that in the post.

There are increasing signs the market is slowing down. I've seen several homes pop up on my various realtor sites reflecting $5k drops in price and several days on market. Also, an NYTimes article reported some strong leading indicators that material prices, especially wood, are starting to fall fairly quickly. My son's realtor told him his own home inspector is no longer needing a 14-day notice to book inspections and is fairly readily available now. Expectation from what I'm reading now is that greater OKC home prices in general will be easing in the fall.

The FED just spoked the market a little bit.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/17/mortgage-rates-shoot-higher-after-fed-chairman-powells-comments.html

405 Mag article talking about real estate in OKC: https://www.405magazine.com/comparing-okcs-affordable-housing/

In the square mile that is my neighborhood (bounded by NW Expressway, I-44, May and Penn) houses continue to get snapped up within days of hitting the market. Currently, there are zero houses for sale, other than a handful with pending contracts. This is the first time that has been the case in my 5 years here. At the same time, I see about 5-6 homes that look like they are in the process of getting flipped; fully remodeled homes go extra fast. There has also been a handful of new construction (the dreaded 'snout homes') scattered around.

I suspect due to the threat of higher interest rates and the choke on materials that has limited new housing starts, this spring and summer will be a very aggressive seller's market.

Beyond that is anyone's guess but for anyone worried about a bubble, real estate always, always goes up in the longer term regardless of short-term fluctuations. As long as you are not looking to jump in and out, you really can't go wrong. The same is true with the stock market.

This may be a bit off topic as it is not specifically about OKC but the general concept applies, and I thought was a pretty interesting watch.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rising-rent-prices-60-minutes-2022-03-20

This may be a bit off topic as it is not specifically about OKC but the general concept applies, and I thought was a pretty interesting watch.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rising-rent-prices-60-minutes-2022-03-20

The generation that is not long out of college will be the first to not live significantly better than the previous generation in a very long time -- probably ever in the U.S.

I did a study of my high school graduating class (1978) and since I had kept the address for everyone when we were in school and also know where they now live (I keep our class database of almost 1,000 people) and determined that in one generation, the increase in square footage per person in the household was more than a multiple of 4.

This group was from Putnam City HS at a time when that area of town was very much like the nicer parts of Edmond; generally upper-middle class. Then, families were bigger and houses were considerably smaller. And when I say smaller, even among big families with professional parents (which was most of my class) it was extremely rare to see a house over 2,000 SF. In my case, we had 7 living under one roof of about 1,500 SF. And our house was a little larger than most. Then I compared to where my parents grew up (also 7 but in a much smaller space) and on and on as you go back through generations.

Obviously, this trend (4X the SF per person in one generation) could not continue and has now started to reverse. And there are lots of bigger cities where buying any sort of home is out of reach for the majority of the population, especially young adults.

^ My daughter lives in Austin. She is a few years out of college and has a very good job in the tech industry. She has virtually zero chance of buying a home there for the foreseeable future.

^ My daughter lives in Austin. She is a few years out of college and has a very good job in the tech industry. She has virtually zero chance of buying a home there for the foreseeable future.

This is why every 5-10 years there is a new boom city with pull for those who get tired of the traffic, expense and hassle of the previous boom cities.

L.A. was the place in the '50s, '60s and '70s, then it was Phoenix, Seattle, Portland, Denver, Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Austin and Las Vegas.

The interesting question is "where next"? Cold-weather cities have largely missed out on this trend. I've said for a long time that OKC is very well positioned. Also, I think it's just a matter of time before Albuquerque becomes red-hot.

This is why every 5-10 years there is a new boom city with pull for those who get tired of the traffic, expense and hassle of the previous boom cities.

L.A. was the place in the '50s, '60s and '70s, then it was Phoenix, Seattle, Portland, Denver, Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Austin and Las Vegas.

The interesting question is "where next"? Cold-weather cities have largely missed out on this trend. I've said for a long time that OKC is very well positioned. Also, I think it's just a matter of time before Albuquerque becomes red-hot.

Tampa has to be the hottest market in the US at this point, if not very close.

With the amenities that have been added or are in process in OKC (let alone the pipeline of future growth) coupled with our cost of living, it seems like a matter of time that the growth from Texas bleeds over to us... and that is already happening to an extent. I'm not sure if we could ever get this passed, but eliminating the State income tax would go a long ways to attracting newcomers to the State and City.

Tampa has to be the hottest market in the US at this point, if not very close.

I should have included almost all of Florida, especially Tampa and the Orlando area.

North Carolina is only going to keep growing as well. The tech companies creating their tech triangles will draw jobs.

In the square mile that is my neighborhood (bounded by NW Expressway, I-44, May and Penn) houses continue to get snapped up within days of hitting the market. Currently, there are zero houses for sale, other than a handful with pending contracts. This is the first time that has been the case in my 5 years here. At the same time, I see about 5-6 homes that look like they are in the process of getting flipped; fully remodeled homes go extra fast. There has also been a handful of new construction (the dreaded 'snout homes') scattered around.

I suspect due to the threat of higher interest rates and the choke on materials that has limited new housing starts, this spring and summer will be a very aggressive seller's market.

Beyond that is anyone's guess but for anyone worried about a bubble, real estate always, always goes up in the longer term regardless of short-term fluctuations. As long as you are not looking to jump in and out, you really can't go wrong. The same is true with the stock market.Interesting. Our area, Council to Rockwell, Britton to Hefner was "sign up, sold sign, people moving, sign gone" for months. Now there are a handful of houses that have been for sale for a few weeks.

^^^

I think we at start of eventual slowdown. Slow doesn’t mean bad so its really a matter of how inflation starts to eat away at spending. Houses is a big spend and if other cost erode income that might be on buyers radar eventually. Job market is great but inflation is a killer.

17390

Inflation tax

17391

This is why every 5-10 years there is a new boom city with pull for those who get tired of the traffic, expense and hassle of the previous boom cities.

L.A. was the place in the '50s, '60s and '70s, then it was Phoenix, Seattle, Portland, Denver, Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Austin and Las Vegas.

The interesting question is "where next"? Cold-weather cities have largely missed out on this trend. I've said for a long time that OKC is very well positioned. Also, I think it's just a matter of time before Albuquerque becomes red-hot.

Phoenix, Seattle, Charlotte, Dallas, Houston, Austin and Denver are still booming as they are in the list of only 14 cities to gain 100k+ people in the last census as well as Fort Worth, Columbus, OKC, Jacksonville, NYC, LA, and San Antonio....Texas is a boom state and I'm guessing that is helping OKC plus everything OKC is doing to better this great city.

^

Yes, still booming but their success also means a decent amount of the population is tired of the traffic and expense.

I lived in L.A. for 25 years while it was booming, yet lots of people left in search of a better quality of life. Just a small percentage of a big city is a lot of people.

I understand that and never thought of it that way.

I think you are saying that places like LA and NYC are so big in population that people are now moving away from those cities to other cities like OKC etc, am I close?

^

The bigger a city gets, the more people there will be looking for a place with a slower, less expensive lifestyle. But they also continue to attract people who love high energy and density, especially those younger.

OKC has a long way to go before it starts attracting a good chunk of people from other cities. I know we have improved, but nowhere close to most cities in Texas or any of the others I listed.

Most of the people I know here either grew up in OKC or moved in from smaller towns in the state. The latter isn't discussed much, but I'd say that accounts for at least half the people I've met since moving back.

Maybe Oklahoma can leech off the Texas people who get priced out of Texas and want something cheaper?

I'm sure there are plenty of people already wanting out of Austin, Dallas and Houston due to congestion alone. And Austin in particular has become crazy expensive.

Housing affordability is a major problem everywhere. Rents are going up 11% every year in OKC. Yet, OKC ranks better than 88 cities on cost of living. Still, try being a teacher or state worker and finding something affordable; it’s getting harder and harder.

We have a scarcity problem, which is worsened by international investors scooping up properties they don’t even live in.

I don’t know the answer but it is becoming unsustainable.

Housing affordability is a major problem everywhere. Rents are going up 11% every year in OKC. Yet, OKC ranks better than 88 cities on cost of living. Still, try being a teacher or state worker and finding something affordable; it’s getting harder and harder.

We have a scarcity problem, which is worsened by international investors scooping up properties they don’t even live in.

I don’t know the answer but it is becoming unsustainable.

I think some places are looking to put a tax on investors buying houses. Toronto was looking at one, I know.

I'm sure there are plenty of people already wanting out of Austin, Dallas and Houston due to congestion alone. And Austin in particular has become crazy expensive.

Yes. They are all moving to San Antonio.

Not a joke.

But also California, Colorado and Florida are big transplant states for San Antonio. The amount of license plates from those three states you see in SA is insane. Also, you see a lot of New York State license plates in the far northwest side. I can spot the yellow and black plate from a hood distance now because I see them so often now.

But San Antonio is in a good position to absorb these transplants because we have a pretty large and comprehensive highway system that is constantly being added to and expanded. Right now multiple miles of freeway are being added to four separate freeways in four different areas of the city and 3 four stack interchanges are under construction. Soon construction will start on 35 from just outside downtown to Schertz to add stacked lanes.

This map shows freeways currently under construction (orange) and planned or soon to be under construction projects (blue).

https://texashighwayman.com/h_imgs/const-map.png

Also the new BRT system is set to start soon and that’ll improve mass transit drastically here. But the urban core is rapidly changing as well so more people are moving there and enjoying a nearly car free lifestyle.

Found this as well:

TXDOT will spend nearly 3 billion dollars to add 16 miles of elevated non-tolled lanes and HOV lanes from near downtown to Schertz as well as add lanes to the current 35 freeway

https://www.texashighwayman.com/h_imgs/i35nex-hov-2el.png

https://www.texashighwayman.com/h_imgs/i35nex-cutaway.png

https://www.texashighwayman.com/h_imgs/i35nex-crossover.png

https://www.texashighwayman.com/h_imgs/i35nex-typical1.png

San Antonio is pretty killer.