Venture, great input. I did say that this would include a couple of restaurants / deli. One thing that is already happeing in south Norman in the apartment living segment, they live further out and w/o a dinner location in close proximity. They are full because of the demand in the area, and the access to hwy 9.

If a mixed use residential tower was in that location, if would provide that type of amenities that lack that area. ie. starbucks / deli / book store / high end feel.

They are already making that walk, now. One key that makes this idea so appealing is the commuters. The urbanist / young marrieds that don't want a yard, would purchase the condos just for this & the great access to hwy 9 and then to I-35.

Another key, is safety. The Tower provides locked gates w/ all units secured by limiting access to others. This is a huge key for 50% of the demographics, ...women. Their safety is a priority.

While the idea has merit, you are thinking too short term for such a large investment. Initial investments are going to need existing traffic and demand to make it work. More urban developments on 12th and Lindsey, pretty close to campus on the east side, have been filling up on the residential size but retail/food has been very slow to fill in. So you can't expect businesses to just flock in there because of a single concentrated housing development. You also need to have existing foot traffic and demand to make it work.

This is why you see the development proposed on Boyd. You have a lot of existing foot traffic with campus and campus corner. People are actually right on the core of campus and aren't having to walk a mile north to get to it.

You mention commuters. Eventually we will see commuter rail from Norman to Downtown connecting to a larger network. As Kerry has pointed out many times, we really want to avoid Park'n'Rides as much as we can, but it isn't avoidable here in my opinion. However, the Norman station for such a development is likely going to be either in Downtown Norman or near campus. The Boyd Street area probably isn't a bad location for it. If you combine it with the high density development plan, you are setting that area up for an explosion of demand. Combine it with the Legacy Trail bike path starting just north on Duffy...you start to bring in other features that can be combined to enrich an area.

As soon as the first large development is done, you start creating a neighborhood/district that begins to rapidly transform into a true walkable/urban development. You also start to link Downtown and Campus. Implement a highly reliable transit system with buses throughout that area down to the research park and you start creating a district that become attractive to more businesses. This means more money works in to where redevelopment of the area can take place. We can look at streets getting modernized with dedicated bike lanes, small single lane roundabouts, and wide sidewalks. OU has said they would put in a roundabout at Lindsey and Jenkins if needed. I would think you look at Jenkins and do roundabouts the entire way to Highway 9 and you create a continuous traffic flow all the way for auto commuters.

The key to all of this is building density. Focusing up in Campus Corner and eventually grown north to Downtown is the best way to tap into it.

While the idea has merit, you are thinking too short term for such a large investment. Initial investments are going to need existing traffic and demand to make it work. More urban developments on 12th and Lindsey, pretty close to campus on the east side, have been filling up on the residential size but retail/food has been very slow to fill in. So you can't expect businesses to just flock in there because of a single concentrated housing development. You also need to have existing foot traffic and demand to make it work.

This is why you see the development proposed on Boyd. You have a lot of existing foot traffic with campus and campus corner. People are actually right on the core of campus and aren't having to walk a mile north to get to it.

You mention commuters. Eventually we will see commuter rail from Norman to Downtown connecting to a larger network. As Kerry has pointed out many times, we really want to avoid Park'n'Rides as much as we can, but it isn't avoidable here in my opinion. However, the Norman station for such a development is likely going to be either in Downtown Norman or near campus. The Boyd Street area probably isn't a bad location for it. If you combine it with the high density development plan, you are setting that area up for an explosion of demand. Combine it with the Legacy Trail bike path starting just north on Duffy...you start to bring in other features that can be combined to enrich an area.

As soon as the first large development is done, you start creating a neighborhood/district that begins to rapidly transform into a true walkable/urban development. You also start to link Downtown and Campus. Implement a highly reliable transit system with buses throughout that area down to the research park and you start creating a district that become attractive to more businesses. This means more money works in to where redevelopment of the area can take place. We can look at streets getting modernized with dedicated bike lanes, small single lane roundabouts, and wide sidewalks. OU has said they would put in a roundabout at Lindsey and Jenkins if needed. I would think you look at Jenkins and do roundabouts the entire way to Highway 9 and you create a continuous traffic flow all the way for auto commuters.

The key to all of this is building density. Focusing up in Campus Corner and eventually grown north to Downtown is the best way to tap into it.

Great post. For some reason (reading comprehension?) OKVision has confused me with someone who doesn't want great, ambitious things for Norman. Perhaps because he's new he doesn't have a sense of my posting history.

I would love to see high-rise residential for Norman (at least 12-20 stories). But it needs to be in the right area of town to maximize urban density, as you have explained so well.

While the idea has merit, you are thinking too short term for such a large investment. Initial investments are going to need existing traffic and demand to make it work. More urban developments on 12th and Lindsey, pretty close to campus on the east side, have been filling up on the residential size but retail/food has been very slow to fill in. So you can't expect businesses to just flock in there because of a single concentrated housing development. You also need to have existing foot traffic and demand to make it work.

This is why you see the development proposed on Boyd. You have a lot of existing foot traffic with campus and campus corner. People are actually right on the core of campus and aren't having to walk a mile north to get to it.

You mention commuters. Eventually we will see commuter rail from Norman to Downtown connecting to a larger network. As Kerry has pointed out many times, we really want to avoid Park'n'Rides as much as we can, but it isn't avoidable here in my opinion. However, the Norman station for such a development is likely going to be either in Downtown Norman or near campus. The Boyd Street area probably isn't a bad location for it. If you combine it with the high density development plan, you are setting that area up for an explosion of demand. Combine it with the Legacy Trail bike path starting just north on Duffy...you start to bring in other features that can be combined to enrich an area.

As soon as the first large development is done, you start creating a neighborhood/district that begins to rapidly transform into a true walkable/urban development. You also start to link Downtown and Campus. Implement a highly reliable transit system with buses throughout that area down to the research park and you start creating a district that become attractive to more businesses. This means more money works in to where redevelopment of the area can take place. We can look at streets getting modernized with dedicated bike lanes, small single lane roundabouts, and wide sidewalks. OU has said they would put in a roundabout at Lindsey and Jenkins if needed. I would think you look at Jenkins and do roundabouts the entire way to Highway 9 and you create a continuous traffic flow all the way for auto commuters.

The key to all of this is building density. Focusing up in Campus Corner and eventually grown north to Downtown is the best way to tap into it.

I can see several points that you stated are keys to helping insure the success of a large / substantial investment.

If the development that I was recommending was the 3rd or 4th tower to be constructed, then I certainly would want more "volume of foot-traffic" and more infrastructure in place. I can see that campus corner area could support a large residential tower now. I still believe that the demand on the south end of Norman would pull from all the other existing apartment customer-base and would be The Hot Spot.

I do see that the condo "buyer" vs. campus apartment lease would be more inclined to be where they have quick access to Hwy 9 - I-35. From Campus Corner it puts another 10-15 min on your commute, thus the 20 - 30 singles / Young Marrieds would be less likely to purchase on Campus Corner. If I were to build this High End Residential Condo / Apt , mixed retail, it would be Pre-Sold before the yellow ribbon was cut. IMO.

I can see several points that you stated are keys to helping insure the success of a large / substantial investment.

If the development that I was recommending was the 3rd or 4th tower to be constructed, then I certainly would want more "volume of foot-traffic" and more infrastructure in place. I can see that campus corner area could support a large residential tower now. I still believe that the demand on the south end of Norman would pull from all the other existing apartment customer-base and would be The Hot Spot.

I do see that the condo "buyer" vs. campus apartment lease would be more inclined to be where they have quick access to Hwy 9 - I-35. From Campus Corner it puts another 10-15 min on your commute, thus the 20 - 30 singles / Young Marrieds would be less likely to purchase on Campus Corner. If I were to build this High End Residential Condo / Apt , mixed retail, it would be Pre-Sold before the yellow ribbon was cut. IMO.

Your reasoning doesn't make sense. High density development would be more prosperous where there is existing density or at least the foundation for more density. You are referring to the existing apartments on the south end to help with your development, but that doesn't make sense. For your project to go forward, you are going to have to remove at least one of those complexes to have room for yours. Whereas that won't be an issue near CC. Let's not forget, CC is already a hot spot - why try to make another right now?

10-15 minutes to get down Jenkins or whatever to extend a commute? Hardly. Sure estimates can fluctuate but if you map it out, the commute time would be essentially the same - no more than a 4 minute difference, which is nothing. Young marrieds with kids are likely going to pick a more traditional neighborhood over any high density development - so they don't need to get in this discussion. The 20-30 singles/couples are going to probably follow the typical trend of sticking to an urban setting if possible. Heck if people are buying houses worth $400-500K right next to Campus Corner, that must not be a huge turn off.

I really don't see any logic how a solitary high density development will work south away from various amenities, but it won't work where there is some level of density and demand already.

One is really just vertical sprawl and the other is fitting into a cohesive neighborhood.

The former is simply for storing people, commuters namely. The later is for giving the 1st place in a holistic lifestyle, where their 2nd Place and 3rd Place(s) are nearby. Third place - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place)

If Norman wants to just be a bedroom community of commuters, then they should build high density outside the core and nearest to the interstates.

If Norman wants to attract professionals of all ages to live, work, eat, and recreate all within Norman, then they need to develop the core as much as possible. As many projects as possible to raise rates will drive capital into the city and encourage business growth. Growth that will rely on a labor force that the school is currently offering and new residents will provide.

That's my $.02.

Completely agree. Building these 6-storyish developments in the Campus Corner to Downtown section of the city you really nail the live, eat, and recreate portion of the equation. Work is something that needs some help. Though with efficient bus service (perhaps maybe street cars one day) you start to connect in the research park and those businesses on south campus and also downtown. Eventually the system can be expected to the UNP business developments and the others built along the "technology corridor" on Highway 9. Add in a commuter rail line to downtown OKC (that connects to a larger network) and you have a very favorable and attractive district to live in.

Additional retail/food space on the first level of any developments also get to cash in on the large student population and not to mention the huge boost on game days (football and basketball to some extent). We already have documented cases of people getting an apartment/condo in or near downtown OKC to get the experience of an urban lifestyle - even while still owning their home in the burbs. Could definitely see some doing the same in Norman.

That's my $.02.

Factor in currency exchange rates and your 2 cents is worth $1.75 in some other people's ideas.

Completely agree. Building these 6-storyish developments in the Campus Corner to Downtown section of the city you really nail the live, eat, and recreate portion of the equation. Work is something that needs some help. Though with efficient bus service (perhaps maybe street cars one day) you start to connect in the research park and those businesses on south campus and also downtown. Eventually the system can be expected to the UNP business developments and the others built along the "technology corridor" on Highway 9. Add in a commuter rail line to downtown OKC (that connects to a larger network) and you have a very favorable and attractive district to live in.

Additional retail/food space on the first level of any developments also get to cash in on the large student population and not to mention the huge boost on game days (football and basketball to some extent). We already have documented cases of people getting an apartment/condo in or near downtown OKC to get the experience of an urban lifestyle - even while still owning their home in the burbs. Could definitely see some doing the same in Norman.

Things are certainly changing for the better in central okla for sure. When the regional light rail comes to Norman, you will see even more reason for my proximity to Hwy 9 for my 10-12 story High End Condo / Apt Tower. I'm ok with not having as much "foot traffic" w/ my development. All things equal, my location becomes the better choice. High Visibility will continue to feed the demand for this location. People want what they see. If the core of Norman was prominent, then the core would be a great first choice. But Norman's core is moderate at best. It will take a great deal of time & money to get the core of Norman to equal the demand of the university. ( People would rather be closer to campus, than downtown Norman ).

Most 20-30 Singles / Urban Marrieds, would want this location over campus corner. Once graduation happens, the campus is not where you want to live. This is why this location provides the "best of both" worlds. Close to campus, but not on campus. I will give them Bikes w/ each condo purchase. ( lol.). Covered parking w/ safe rooms.

Trendy Condo Tower in Norman... Would anyone want to live here? ...Would this be fun? :cool:

100 DAVENPORT | YORKVILLE CONDOS | THE FLORIAN CONDOS | 100 DAVENPORT CONDOMINIUMS (http://www.jarrodarmstrong.com/Yorkville-Condos-at-100-Davenport)

Trendy Condo Tower in Norman... Would anyone want to live here? ...Would this be fun? :cool:

100 DAVENPORT | YORKVILLE CONDOS | THE FLORIAN CONDOS | 100 DAVENPORT CONDOMINIUMS (http://www.jarrodarmstrong.com/Yorkville-Condos-at-100-Davenport)

...just giving an example of what type of Trendy I am speaking of.

Things are certainly changing for the better in central okla for sure. When the regional light rail comes to Norman, you will see even more reason for my proximity to Hwy 9 for my 10-12 story High End Condo / Apt Tower. I'm ok with not having as much "foot traffic" w/ my development. All things equal, my location becomes the better choice. High Visibility will continue to feed the demand for this location. People want what they see. If the core of Norman was prominent, then the core would be a great first choice. But Norman's core is moderate at best. It will take a great deal of time & money to get the core of Norman to equal the demand of the university. ( People would rather be closer to campus, than downtown Norman ).

Most 20-30 Singles / Urban Marrieds, would want this location over campus corner. Once graduation happens, the campus is not where you want to live. This is why this location provides the "best of both" worlds. Close to campus, but not on campus. I will give them Bikes w/ each condo purchase. ( lol.). Covered parking w/ safe rooms.

Okay seriously, you aren't making any sense. With commuter rail (not light rail) how is a location 2-4 miles from the station going to be even better than one that could very well be right next door or less a mile bike ride/walk? Do you even have any experience being in a high density area or experiencing any large scale mass transit? Hell...even SimCity would teach you better with planning. LOL

Your location is even less desirable and has less features around it than the one that is ACTUALLY planned. Sure it might be good for some cities to throw towers every where, but at some point you destroy any chance of getting to critical mass and really extracting the benefits of high density living. Why would you even claim people would choose your location over Campus Corner when you have people wanting to get into Downtown OKC because things are developing that are in walking distances. If you just want a tower for commuters...go pick a field out in the middle of Tuttle or something.


Trendy Condo Tower in Norman... Would anyone want to live here? ...Would this be fun? :cool:

100 DAVENPORT | YORKVILLE CONDOS | THE FLORIAN CONDOS | 100 DAVENPORT CONDOMINIUMS (http://www.jarrodarmstrong.com/Yorkville-Condos-at-100-Davenport)

So that's your example. NOW...did you even bother looking at the neighborhood it is in? It is located in an area with other high density developments and towers. Not off away from a high traffic area next to some apartment complexes. What you are suggesting is the equivalent of putting the Devon Tower at I-240/I-40 out in far east OKC. You aren't even talking about this rationally.

Is there demand for a high density multi-use tower in Norman right now? I don't think so. Not yet anyway. We need more of these 4-6 story developments to go in and start building up the density and help reach the point where some larger makes sense. For now the only high rise residential complexes in Norman will remain the dorm towers.

Trendy Condo Tower in Norman... Would anyone want to live here? ...Would this be fun? :cool:

100 DAVENPORT | YORKVILLE CONDOS | THE FLORIAN CONDOS | 100 DAVENPORT CONDOMINIUMS (http://www.jarrodarmstrong.com/Yorkville-Condos-at-100-Davenport)

Put that on campus corner and I'm in. Put that on the corner (any corner) of Chautauqua and Imhoff and I'm out.

Okay seriously, you aren't making any sense. With commuter rail (not light rail) how is a location 2-4 miles from the station going to be even better than one that could very well be right next door or less a mile bike ride/walk? Do you even have any experience being in a high density area or experiencing any large scale mass transit? Hell...even SimCity would teach you better with planning. LOL

Your location is even less desirable and has less features around it than the one that is ACTUALLY planned. Sure it might be good for some cities to throw towers every where, but at some point you destroy any chance of getting to critical mass and really extracting the benefits of high density living. Why would you even claim people would choose your location over Campus Corner when you have people wanting to get into Downtown OKC because things are developing that are in walking distances. If you just want a tower for commuters...go pick a field out in the middle of Tuttle or something.



So that's your example. NOW...did you even bother looking at the neighborhood it is in? It is located in an area with other high density developments and towers. Not off away from a high traffic area next to some apartment complexes. What you are suggesting is the equivalent of putting the Devon Tower at I-240/I-40 out in far east OKC. You aren't even talking about this rationally.

Is there demand for a high density multi-use tower in Norman right now? I don't think so. Not yet anyway. We need more of these 4-6 story developments to go in and start building up the density and help reach the point where some larger makes sense. For now the only high rise residential complexes in Norman will remain the dorm towers.

Venture, you know most all of the new Large Buildings are South of the oval? ...NWS / Tech Row. / LNC / ...this is not just "thrown" out there. This Trendy Tower I am speaking of has ALL the amenities you want. I'm not Planning for a City, I'm developing a property for Sell. A world of difference. I'm not saying that the 4-6 story units won't be successful in the campus area or the core of Norman, but this Trendy High End Tower would sell. $285 K p/ unit. With a view of all the ball fields / River / Stadium.... It willl be in high demand.

Let's take the idea of retail, restaurant, etc out of the equation. Vision, where in Norman would be the best place to put a 15 story residential tower with the only amenities being on site parking?

I would say in close proximity to Canpus Corner on the north and east side of OU. That is where densities are already higher and where existing housing could demolished to increase density (unlike neighborhoods to the northwest/west). This also goes along with the vision that higher density should be near the tracks due to the eventual rail line to OKC, and synergies between downtown, Campus Corner and OU.

Venture, you know most all of the new Large Buildings are South of the oval? ...NWS / Tech Row. / LNC / ...this is not just "thrown" out there. This Trendy Tower I am speaking of has ALL the amenities you want. I'm not Planning for a City, I'm developing a property for Sell. A world of difference. I'm not saying that the 4-6 story units won't be successful in the campus area or the core of Norman, but this Trendy High End Tower would sell. $285 K p/ unit. With a view of all the ball fields / River / Stadium.... It willl be in high demand.

How can you possibly have ALL the amenities someone shopping for an urban/high density environment in one development? You can't. Are you actually considering LNC a "new" large building? Wow. Campus Corner you have a developer who has interest in build a 6-story urban high density project. Right across the street from the TALLEST building in Norman (since size of buildings seems to matter to you for some reason) and a short walk from Memorial Stadium. Not to mention you have all the existing restaurants and shops in CC that someone would be able to walk to. On top of that, you have the potential to be right next to a commuter rail station. You can essentially live in the development WITHOUT a car. Your project would still require that and have NOTHING close to the CC offerings.

Here is an image of what the same developer proposed in Stillwater:

http://www.multihousingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/213-W-300x157.jpg

These urban developments are what is in demand right now. This is why you see Deep Deuce filling so fast. Downtown OKC has significantly higher density than Norman, but you don't see people tripping over each other to build towers - do you? Use common sense.

How can you possibly have ALL the amenities someone shopping for an urban/high density environment in one development? You can't. Are you actually considering LNC a "new" large building? Wow. Campus Corner you have a developer who has interest in build a 6-story urban high density project. Right across the street from the TALLEST building in Norman (since size of buildings seems to matter to you for some reason) and a short walk from Memorial Stadium. Not to mention you have all the existing restaurants and shops in CC that someone would be able to walk to. On top of that, you have the potential to be right next to a commuter rail station. You can essentially live in the development WITHOUT a car. Your project would still require that and have NOTHING close to the CC offerings.

Here is an image of what the same developer proposed in Stillwater:

http://www.multihousingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/213-W-300x157.jpg

These urban developments are what is in demand right now. This is why you see Deep Deuce filling so fast. Downtown OKC has significantly higher density than Norman, but you don't see people tripping over each other to build towers - do you? Use common sense.

...the comment about large buildings was a response to your "throw a tower out in the middle of nowwhere". ...Your are correct, LNC is not that new, so i will mention that my Tower will be 2 blocks from the Largest Museum in Norman, The Sam Noble Museum of Natural History. I did overlook that one. lol.

Yes, the 4-6 developments are hot in Deep Duece. A big need. What makes my offer of a large tower is the 30,000 customers ( each year ) that attend the Univ. of Oklahoma. This is the Dynamic that would "feed" my Trendy Condo / Apt. Tower.

Put that on campus corner and I'm in. Put that on the corner (any corner) of Chautauqua and Imhoff and I'm out.

Hey look, my first customer. Warreng likes it too..

Let's take the idea of retail, restaurant, etc out of the equation. Vision, where in Norman would be the best place to put a 15 story residential tower with the only amenities being on site parking?

Warreng, in all reality I would not spend less money, just to save the cost. The amenties are what helps "Seal the Deal" for my Tower. It's like taking your own environment w/ you. If my mixed use tower has 3 floors dedicated to retail / rest / book store / Starbucks, then my develompent becomes the anchor.

Hey look, my first customer. Warreng likes it too..

But did you notice that I said I would NOT live in that if you were to put it where you originally proposed? You know why? There is nothing else down there. Then I am just some d-bag living in condo next to Lloyd Noble and the water treatment plant. I bet you could put just about any building, whether it be a six story in-fill (like venture is talking about) or a 15 story condo/apartment near Campus Corner and it would sell because of the already existing activities available.

Warreng, in all reality I would not spend less money, just to save the cost. The amenties are what helps "Seal the Deal" for my Tower. It's like taking your own environment w/ you. If my mixed use tower has 3 floors dedicated to retail / rest / book store / Starbucks, then my develompent becomes the anchor.

I understand what you would do, but let's just say for sh!ts and giggles that someone wants to build a condo tower but does not want to do any sort of other amenitites. Where then would you advise them to put it? And no, you cannot tell them to add retail/bookstore/pet shop/braum's/christie's toy box to the development. Just the tower and parking.

Let's take the idea of retail, restaurant, etc out of the equation. Vision, where in Norman would be the best place to put a 15 story residential tower with the only amenities being on site parking?

Warreng, for the sake of discussion, if I were to place a Trendy Condo Tower in Norman ( w/o amenities ) w/ parking only, then I would say Lindsey & I-35 on the NW corner ( car lot there? ).

...the comment about large buildings was a response to your "throw a tower out in the middle of nowwhere". ...Your are correct, LNC is not that new, so i will mention that my Tower will be 2 blocks from the Largest Museum in Norman, The Sam Noble Museum of Natural History. I did overlook that one. lol.

Yes, the 4-6 developments are hot in Deep Duece. A big need. What makes my offer of a large tower is the 30,000 customers ( each year ) that attend the Univ. of Oklahoma. This is the Dynamic that would "feed" my Trendy Condo / Apt. Tower.

I've lived in Norman for 15 years. I've never been to the museum. Chances are it is not going to be a selling point at all to live in some tower south of campus. I much rather would be more interested in retail and restaurant choices. Something your facility wouldn't be able to compete with.


Warreng, in all reality I would not spend less money, just to save the cost. The amenties are what helps "Seal the Deal" for my Tower. It's like taking your own environment w/ you. If my mixed use tower has 3 floors dedicated to retail / rest / book store / Starbucks, then my develompent becomes the anchor.

So you are going to fill it with chains to compete against more local/unique options near campus. You are going to suggest a book store? Yes...cause those are doing SO well these days.


But did you notice that I said I would NOT live in that if you were to put it where you originally proposed? You know why? There is nothing else down there. Then I am just some d-bag living in condo next to Lloyd Noble and the water treatment plant. I bet you could put just about any building, whether it be a six story in-fill (like venture is talking about) or a 15 story condo/apartment near Campus Corner and it would sell because of the already existing activities available.

Especially with houses going for north of $300K-400K in the campus corner area already...developers could get a pretty penny for urban developments in the same area.

Warreng, for the sake of discussion, if I were to place a Trendy Condo Tower in Norman ( w/o amenities ) w/ parking only, then I would say Lindsey & I-35 on the NW corner ( car lot there? ).

Wow really...over UNP?

You realize a tower was proposed for that area and went no where right? Are you using any common sense in your decision making or just pulling it from down under?

Warreng, for the sake of discussion, if I were to place a Trendy Condo Tower in Norman ( w/o amenities ) w/ parking only, then I would say Lindsey & I-35 on the NW corner ( car lot there? ).

What that spot specifically? Why wouldn't you put it north of Boyd and University Blvd?

Warreng, for the sake of discussion, if I were to place a Trendy Condo Tower in Norman ( w/o amenities ) w/ parking only, then I would say Lindsey & I-35 on the NW corner ( car lot there? ).

NOW, I would not do ONLY that. The Tower must have the amenities too. That is what makes the desire for the consumer, a Closed Loop. ...so the best place again is Chaut & Imhoff.

Wow really...over UNP?

You realize a tower was proposed for that area and went no where right? Are you using any common sense in your decision making or just pulling it from down under?

He asked "if i placed a tower in norman w/o amenities, where would I put it? ...the most visible location in norman. BUT, I would not spend 8-10 Million w/o amenities. Guys, you don't have a condo w/o the beach? ... I would spend $18 Mil w/ all the amenities and insure the success ot the development long term.

One more thing, from my High End Trendy Condo Tower, you can watch the OU Sooners practices from your balcony or the Work-out Faclity on the 12th Floor. Or, you can just sit back in the Lounge area on the 11th floor. ...take a look again at the type of trendy Warreng likes: ...lol.

100 DAVENPORT | YORKVILLE CONDOS | THE FLORIAN CONDOS | 100 DAVENPORT CONDOMINIUMS (http://www.jarrodarmstrong.com/Yorkville-Condos-at-100-Davenport)

There is a lot of unintended comedy in this thread.

NOW, I would not do ONLY that. The Tower must have the amenities too. That is what makes the desire for the consumer, a Closed Loop. ...so the best place again is Chaut & Imhoff.

So, you are going to place a tower with a restaurant, bookstore, retail, coffee shop in an area surrounded only by other apartments, Lloyd Noble, Sam Noble and other homes that is a nine minute drive to the I-35 Main Street interchange (using googlemaps) over a tower on University and Boyd that is a 10 minute drive (again, googlemaps) surrounded by Blackbird, Cafe Plaid, 405 imports, Tulips, Take Five, Hideaway, Brothers, Blush, Buchanan Bicycles, Victoria's, the Deli, Toto's pizza, Beloved Bridal Boutique, Logan's, Fuzzy's, Crooked Crust, Pickleman's, O'Connell's, Balfour, Louie's, Starbucks, Which Wich, Pita Pit, Midfirst Bank, Lucca and a two block walk from campus?

Do you see my point? One would not have to spend the extra money on amenities directly in the tower development because already established places are a two block walk away.

There is a lot of unintended comedy in this thread.

I hope this was not directed at me, but it might be...

There is a lot of unintended comedy in this thread.

and you can have on too. Since your the SoonerGuru, just be sure to order early, the good ones go first.

One more thing, from my High End Trendy Condo Tower, you can watch the OU Sooners practices from your balcony or the Work-out Faclity on the 12th Floor. Or, you can just sit back in the Lounge area on the 11th floor. ...take a look again at the type of trendy Warreng likes: ...lol.

100 DAVENPORT | YORKVILLE CONDOS | THE FLORIAN CONDOS | 100 DAVENPORT CONDOMINIUMS (http://www.jarrodarmstrong.com/Yorkville-Condos-at-100-Davenport)

Don't keep referencing me in these post, please. I don't want you to get the idea that I agree with you on, really, anything in general. In regards to the condos themselves, I would not pay $400,000-$3,750,000 to own a small condo in Norman. If I am going to pay that kind of money, it is going to DT OKC where I don't have to worry about owning a car and am around plenty of amenities not just a starbucks, restaurant and a book store.

I hope this was not directed at me, but it might be...

Nope.

So, you are going to place a tower with a restaurant, bookstore, retail, coffee shop in an area surrounded only by other apartments, Lloyd Noble, Sam Noble and other homes that is a nine minute drive to the I-35 Main Street interchange (using googlemaps) over a tower on University and Boyd that is a 10 minute drive (again, googlemaps) surrounded by Blackbird, Cafe Plaid, 405 imports, Tulips, Take Five, Hideaway, Brothers, Blush, Buchanan Bicycles, Victoria's, the Deli, Toto's pizza, Beloved Bridal Boutique, Logan's, Fuzzy's, Crooked Crust, Pickleman's, O'Connell's, Balfour, Louie's, Starbucks, Which Wich, Pita Pit, Midfirst Bank, Lucca and a two block walk from campus?

Do you see my point? One would not have to spend the extra money on amenities directly in the tower development because already established places are a two block walk away.

YES, I would have first 3 floors w/ Retail , Eateries, etc. I would not build all the stores you mentioned, but a few "Very Select" choices. This Tower will pull its own customer base. You can still have yours. One would not canniblize the other.

YES, I would have first 3 floors w/ Retail , Eateries, etc. I would not build all the stores you mentioned, but a few "Very Select" choices. This Tower will pull its own customer base. You can still have yours. One would not canniblize the other.

Which stores that I mentioned? The long list of stores which already exist on campus corner or the basic stores that exist in pretty much every hotel that you mentioned?

I would think you could charge about $100,000 more for the exact same condo near the campus corner area over your location and your building costs would be significantly lower since you wouldn't have to build "Very Select choice" stores as you put it.

Don't keep referencing me in these post, please. I don't want you to get the idea that I agree with you on, really, anything in general. In regards to the condos themselves, I would not pay $400,000-$3,750,000 to own a small condo in Norman. If I am going to pay that kind of money, it is going to DT OKC where I don't have to worry about owning a car and am around plenty of amenities not just a starbucks, restaurant and a book store.

$285 K - $475K. ...we will book them all day long.

Nope.

Hey Guru, do you want one on the upper floors?

One more thing, from my High End Trendy Condo Tower, you can watch the OU Sooners practices from your balcony or the Work-out Faclity on the 12th Floor. Or, you can just sit back in the Lounge area on the 11th floor. ...take a look again at the type of trendy Warreng likes: ...lol.

100 DAVENPORT | YORKVILLE CONDOS | THE FLORIAN CONDOS | 100 DAVENPORT CONDOMINIUMS (http://www.jarrodarmstrong.com/Yorkville-Condos-at-100-Davenport)

Go back and look what I said earlier about this...that you seem to have ignored. The development you keep highlighting is one in a high density area of Toronto. Apples and Oranges.

And wait...watch OU practice? From the 12th floor? Are you an idiot or do you have x-ray vision? I would assume you mean the football team and if that's the case, good luck looking through the dorm towers and trees to the practice field that is - as the crow flies - 1.25 miles from where you are proposing. If I had someone trying to sell me on that I would laugh in their face and call them a moron...and recommend they go back to the used car lot from where they came.

YES, I would have first 3 floors w/ Retail , Eateries, etc. I would not build all the stores you mentioned, but a few "Very Select" choices. This Tower will pull its own customer base. You can still have yours. One would not canniblize the other.

How are you going to get retail in there when Campus Corner is a much strong prospect (more density and foot traffic) and the vast majority are being sucked into UNP.

Look I commend people that have exciting ideas to share, but you need to fully vet them before you get behind it. Hey I've had crazy ideas for an airline based in OKC...is it logical? Not without asking a billionaire if they want to become a millionaire.

However I look at existing urban developments around right now. The newer urban development at 12th and Lindsey, which is almost at full build out now, has struggled to get retail into the first floor. That is being on a corner with some of the highest traffic numbers in the city. That too is also next to numerous apartment complexes, has more food options in the area, and about equal distance to the heart of campus.

As entertaining as this has been, you aren't doing yourself any favors.

Go back and look what I said earlier about this...that you seem to have ignored. The development you keep highlighting is one in a high density area of Toronto. Apples and Oranges.

And wait...watch OU practice? From the 12th floor? Are you an idiot or do you have x-ray vision? I would assume you mean the football team and if that's the case, good luck looking through the dorm towers and trees to the practice field that is - as the crow flies - 1.25 miles from where you are proposing. If I had someone trying to sell me on that I would laugh in their face and call them a moron...and recommend they go back to the used car lot from where they came.

Are you even aware of the OU Football program at all? ...do you even know where they practice? Pre-season is across the street from my new Trendy Condo Tower. Ok, since you used the word idiot to describe me, then I will be forced to apply that word to all the people that don't understand how development works. A developer may use the same "building design / footprint" for other locations. It keeps cost down. The Civil is the only changes and a few misc. for adaptations on local. The Davenport Model can be placed in other locations Venture.

Venture, how does that crow taste?

How are you going to get retail in there when Campus Corner is a much strong prospect (more density and foot traffic) and the vast majority are being sucked into UNP.

Look I commend people that have exciting ideas to share, but you need to fully vet them before you get behind it. Hey I've had crazy ideas for an airline based in OKC...is it logical? Not without asking a billionaire if they want to become a millionaire.

However I look at existing urban developments around right now. The newer urban development at 12th and Lindsey, which is almost at full build out now, has struggled to get retail into the first floor. That is being on a corner with some of the highest traffic numbers in the city. That too is also next to numerous apartment complexes, has more food options in the area, and about equal distance to the heart of campus.

As entertaining as this has been, you aren't doing yourself any favors.

As a stick-built structure, your area would be competing against all the other apartment locations. My Tower would stand alone, in competition. The bottom line is this, Norman in the campus corner area is "coming alive", but I'm not banking on the Campus Corner... I will talke all the other Top 10 % customers. I'm fine w/ that.

Are you even aware of the OU Football program at all? ...do you even know where they practice? Pre-season is across the street from my new Trendy Condo Tower. Ok, since you used the word idiot to describe me, then I will be forced to apply that word to all the people that don't understand how development works. A developer may use the same "building design / footprint" for other locations. It keeps cost down. The Civil is the only changes and a few misc. for adaptations on local. The Davenport Model can be placed in other locations Venture.

Venture, how does that crow taste?

Wow, you really showed him. May I suggest to you a book called "How to win friends and influence people"? I think it would be a good read for you.

Are you even aware of the OU Football program at all? ...do you even know where they practice? Pre-season is across the street from my new Trendy Condo Tower. Ok, since you used the word idiot to describe me, then I will be forced to apply that word to all the people that don't understand how development works. A developer may use the same "building design / footprint" for other locations. It keeps cost down. The Civil is the only changes and a few misc. for adaptations on local. The Davenport Model can be placed in other locations Venture.

Venture, how does that crow taste?

Okay so that's pre-season...what about the rest of the season? Anyway. So you are saying you understand development - how much have you actually participated in?


As a stick-built structure, your area would be competing against all the other apartment locations. My Tower would stand alone, in competition. The bottom line is this, Norman in the campus corner area is "coming alive", but I'm not banking on the Campus Corner... I will talke all the other Top 10 % customers. I'm fine w/ that.

So you are saying it is better to have individual developments spread out all over the place? You are one of the problems with the sprawl issue. You want to develop a high density structure but then don't want to put it in the area the high density is best supported? Let's not forget that actual developers have been applying to build there. No one has proposed a residential tower out on your "island". Granted...City of Norman won't permit it either as the high density district will be from Campus Corner to Downtown. So you are DOA regardless.

Wow, you really showed him. May I suggest to you a book called "How to win friends and influence people"? I think it would be a good read for you.

Reading comprehension. Warrreng, read again what I said... Since he used the word "idiot"...???? and he was wrong both times. So Warreng, go someplace else w/ that babble. I did read "It's Tough to Soar w/ Eagles when you Blog w/ Turkeys".

Reading comprehension. Warrreng, read again what I said... Since he used the word "idiot"...???? and he was wrong both times. So Warreng, go someplace else w/ that babble. I did read "It's Tough to Soar w/ Eagles when you Blog w/ Turkeys".

Coming from the person who didn't realize Warren didn't like his idea.

Reading comprehension. Warrreng, read again what I said... Since he used the word "idiot"...???? and he was wrong both times. So Warreng, go someplace else w/ that babble. I did read "It's Tough to Soar w/ Eagles when you Blog w/ Turkeys".

I did read what you said and it's not what you said, it's how you said it. That is the point of the book. It's a good read. Might be of some use to you. I know it was to me when I was in college.

Okay so that's pre-season...what about the rest of the season? Anyway. So you are saying you understand development - how much have you actually participated in?



So you are saying it is better to have individual developments spread out all over the place? You are one of the problems with the sprawl issue. You want to develop a high density structure but then don't want to put it in the area the high density is best supported? Let's not forget that actual developers have been applying to build there. No one has proposed a residential tower out on your "island". Granted...City of Norman won't permit it either as the high density district will be from Campus Corner to Downtown. So you are DOA regardless.

Not spawling at all. This Tower will be tucked in-between the San Noble Musuem of Natural History & Across the Street From all the New Women's Sports Fields. I feel good about my location.

I have a great deal of development experience in the lower 48.

I did read what you said and it's not what you said, it's how you said it. That is the point of the book. It's a good read. Might be of some use to you. I know it was to me when I was in college.

Warreng, you should know by now that I'm not that guy. Move on.

Warreng, you should know by now that I'm not that guy. Move on.

You're not that guy who looks to improve himself? Fair enough.

Not spawling at all. This Tower will be tucked in-between the San Noble Musuem of Natural History & Across the Street From all the New Women's Sports Fields. I feel good about my location.

I have a great deal of development experience in the lower 48.

Link to your developments please.

One more thing, from my High End Trendy Condo Tower, you can watch the OU Sooners practices from your balcony or the Work-out Faclity on the 12th Floor. Or, you can just sit back in the Lounge area on the 11th floor. ...take a look again at the type of trendy Warreng likes: ...lol.

100 DAVENPORT | YORKVILLE CONDOS | THE FLORIAN CONDOS | 100 DAVENPORT CONDOMINIUMS (http://www.jarrodarmstrong.com/Yorkville-Condos-at-100-Davenport)


$285 K - $475K. ...we will book them all day long.

They're selling theirs for $1;549,000 to $3,150,000 but you're gonna sell yours for $285k to $475k? You are quite the astute business man, aren't you buddy...haha

The Florian by Diamante Development Corporation in Toronto, New Condos - Project Details (http://condonow.com/toronto--new-condos--diamante-development-corporation--the-florian/projectdetail)

I'm glad to know that all the big power players in Norman are frequenting this thread and all have enough free time in between all those important development meetings to spend an entire Wednesday afternoon chatting away on a message board and are willing to let anyone who is reading know all about the inner workings of their proprietary business deals with companies they are trying to negotiate into their development. Because that makes sense.

Honestly guys? Come on.

I'm glad to know that all the big power players in Norman are frequenting this thread and all have enough free time in between all those important development meetings to spend an entire Wednesday afternoon chatting away on a message board and are willing to let anyone who is reading know all about the inner workings of their proprietary business deals with companies they are trying to negotiate into their development. Because that makes sense.

Honestly guys? Come on.

LOL ***the truth hits a grand slam*** LOL

I'm glad to know that all the big power players in Norman are frequenting this thread and all have enough free time in between all those important development meetings to spend an entire Wednesday afternoon chatting away on a message board and are willing to let anyone who is reading know all about the inner workings of their proprietary business deals with companies they are trying to negotiate into their development. Because that makes sense.

Honestly guys? Come on.

It is amazing how some people just can't come to grasp with reality, but then go out and want to propose a massive tower out of no where. At least the projects the rest of are are talking about are actually proposed. :) It is pretty sad though.

There is a lot of unintended comedy in this thread.Wherever a particular individual(yes, that one guy with that one genetic makeup that assigns himself a very specific username) lurks, laughs and giggles are sure to fill the air.

disclaimer- I am not aiming this comment at Warreng88

Warreng, you should know by now that I'm not that guy. Move on.Who are you? Seriously, have the balls to identify yourself one way or another. . .

I think he's either a sock puppet or plant. He's certainly trolling.

I've done my fair share of trolling, believe you me, but this guy takes it to a new level.

I've done my fair share of trolling, believe you me, but this guy takes it to a new level.

Oh you are still a puppy when it comes to trolling compared to this guy. LOL