SW Aviator and I thank you Pete for posting this article. This morning, we co-wrote wrote a response to it for the FBB Facebook Page-


Via this article, it sounds as though the public really won't be informed or involved in the final design. If they (ODOT) is literally about to go out to bid, that means that the final design is completed or about to be completed.

This is disappointing.

Friends for a Better Boulevard has worked hard over the past few years to force transparency and public engagement. A process by which redesigns are saving the taxpayers tens of millions by forcing the elimination of the elevated bridges originally proposed. The overall alignment is less negatively impactful to the surrounding neighborhoods than originally proposed by ODOT.

Not everyone agreed that there should even be a boulevard at all. Obviously, others have suggested other options. However, with the overall alignment debate over, what did remain was how the chosen alignment was actually designed.

It is the human scale that is important.

What are the crosswalks like?
What is the lighting like?
Are there any dedicated bike lanes?
What are the materials?
Where are the transit stops?

The tone by which this entire project has been conceived, planned, and seemingly implemented is one soaked in administrative arrogance.

Bob and I do know that the Boulevard plans are "better". We do know that over $25 million or more will be saved due to forced changes. We have seen the needle to better designs slowly and forcibly moved.
However, it is my personal opinion that this FBB movement has probably had even more long term positive impact on overall boulevard designs in other areas by the city. Public involvement and positive pressure for good urban design has given away to much improved EK Gaylord plan and may have helped the traction with "A Better Classen" movement.

Regardless, Bob and I both hope that the long term results of this movement resonate and that the dinosauric engineering philosophies give way to urbanity and the human scale.

If ODOT or Oklahoma City releases more detailed information about this final design, rest assured we will post what we find out.

Many thanks to all of you for your support, your involvement, and your great love for our city.

Jeff and Bob

Interesting detailed cross section of Oklahoma Avenue and OKC Boulevard-

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=964930760213447&set=gm.1130096780337529&type=1&theater

Interesting detailed cross section of Oklahoma Avenue and OKC Boulevard-

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=964930760213447&set=gm.1130096780337529&type=1&theater

Your link doesn't appear to work. Can you try reposting please?

Your link doesn't appear to work. Can you try reposting please?

You can find the full sets of plans on ODOTs website.

Thanks for sharing that UP. It's really nice to see detailed designs like this but it sadly has many negative concepts. Why the barrier curb in the middle, why is SW3rd acting as a useless service road, I see sidewalks but zero bike lanes which I was hoping they would try and tie them in to the south canal trails area as well as to the boathouses. Frankly besides the simplification of the intersection at Oklahoma ave. its hard to see how this design matches up with what the rest of the boulevard with hopefully look like( going by the rough Alt C details)

supposedly once it was completed and turned over to the city, then the city would implement the bike lanes and such... is what I was told at one of the publuc meetings...

You can find the full sets of plans on ODOTs website.

Where?

Interesting detailed cross section of Oklahoma Avenue and OKC Boulevard-

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=964930760213447&set=gm.1130096780337529&type=1&theater
That link is not working. Is it the same thing posted in the plans that came about awhile back?

On a side note, I've been here for about a week and have a day left, but I went and checked it out and they are literally rebuilding the old highway.

They left the steel beams exposed like they used to and didn't encase them in cement or do any artwork. It sucks.

Here is that photo.

Facebook is weird about photos sometimes.

https://i.gyazo.com/4c7627e9adc20b629d730a25e999b497.png

Sorry for the link problems folks. I suspect that you may have to "join" Friends for a Better Boulevard's Facebook Page for it to automatically let you through to see posts and pictures. If you haven't done so, I would encourage you to. Bob or I will approve the request.

We have the group settings at semi-restrictive to avoid spam. We had bots and trolls joining when it was a "open" group promoting shoes and so forth. It was troublesome for us as volunteers thus the security change.

Plus we wanted to monitor whether ODOT was trying to access the group's page. It turns out that they were. Several of the people on the project were using their kid's Facebook accounts to try to see if or how we were organizing before the public meetings. Another chapter...

Where?

Yes Buffalo Bill... please provide a link. We want to see them.

Yes Buffalo Bill... please provide a link. We want to see them.

Plans List (http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/index-list.php?year=15&month=01&day=0)

Look for call order 320.

Wow that is a lot to take in.

Am I reading the plans correctly and seeing up-to-10 foot wide sidewalks along parts of the BLVD and EKG?

It looks that way to me and it would be in line with what has been stated by Public Works Director Eric Wenger to provide a adequate pedestrian connection to the front door of the Peake and Core2Shore.

The Boulevard is a disaster. I am so glad I have no reason to go to downtown now.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U3eiOuLwTrk

ODOT's Folly: and our city staff's as well for letting them build this, standing in the way of FBB.

It looks that way to me and it would be in line with what has been stated by Public Works Director Eric Wenger to provide a adequate pedestrian connection to the front door of the Peake and Core2Shore.

Well why would anyone even need to go anywhere other than the Peake?

It looks as though the city got their wish for P180 lights to be incorporated into the Boulevard.http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11776&stc=1

But that's Shields, right?

Yes. They told ODOT that they wanted the finish materials to be of P180 spec. It looks like the lights have made it through. Now to seek if all of the other P180 materials, bricks, bollards, crossings, etc have also made it through final design.

Silly, but interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxopfjXkArM

Yes. They told ODOT that they wanted the finish materials to be of P180 spec. It looks like the lights have made it through. Now to seek if all of the other P180 materials, bricks, bollards, crossings, etc have also made it through final design.

Including the street striping material? :)

Yes. They told ODOT that they wanted the finish materials to be of P180 spec. It looks like the lights have made it through.

If you read the plans you asked for above that I referenced, you would have already known this.

Plans for Walker to EK Gaylord: http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2016/plans1601/560_2116_ACNHPPI-XTWN%28079%29SS_1742889/A%20FULL%20FILE%20W%20XS.pdf (Beware, 35 MB PDF!)

Post highlight screencaps?

Post highlight screencaps?

I can't right now, maybe someone else has time? Sheets T10-T18 are the best overall (traffic striping plans).

Plans for Walker to EK Gaylord: http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2016/plans1601/560_2116_ACNHPPI-XTWN%28079%29SS_1742889/A%20FULL%20FILE%20W%20XS.pdf (Beware, 35 MB PDF!)

Thanks for being attentive and posting this link. Interesting to see the streetcar route reflected in the plans.

I see the bike lane detail, but I can't seem to find any actual bike lanes. Can somebody point them out to me?

11ft. wide driving lane for a 25MPH speed limit. This is really messed up. Now it's just going to be a huge speed trap.

As a side note, I actually use the existing part of the boulevard quite frequently, as I visit family out west on I-40 so it's super easy to jump on at Klein where it starts and stops.

However, despite dozens and dozens of light standards, absolutely none of the lights are on.

It's actually very dangerous as you exit going east of I-40 and more than once I had to make a quick adjustment because the exit itself is completely dark and weird.

Have no idea how they can operate an open, functional road -- especially with an interstate exit -- with no lighting whatsoever.

However, despite dozens and dozens of light standards, absolutely none of the lights are on.

It's actually very dangerous as you exit going east of I-40 and more than once I had to make a quick adjustment because the exit itself is completely dark and weird.

Have no idea how they can operate an open, functional road -- especially with an interstate exit -- with no lighting whatsoever.

I believe the copper wiring has been cut and pulled from the conduits a number of times by thieves. I think the city has tired of replacing it and won't until the whole boulevard is complete.

I believe the copper wiring has been cut and pulled from the conduits a number of times by thieves. I think the city has tired of replacing it and won't until the whole boulevard is complete.

This is so annoying. I don't think death is a proper punishment for theft, but I really wouldn't mind seeing some kind of device that fry's the sh!t out of copper thieves who target lighting systems for roads. They put people lives at risk when they do that.

11ft. wide driving lane for a 25MPH speed limit. This is really messed up. Now it's just going to be a huge speed trap.

Color me confused by this...

Also during the ice, ODOT didn't touch this road it was very icy long after everything else was good. I tweeted ODOT to ask if it's still their responsibility or the city's and they said theirs and that they'd look into it, but this was two days after my tweet so it was a non-issue at that point...

Color me confused by this...

11ft. driving lanes seems to be pretty wide for a 25MPH speed limit.

So the average car width is about 80 inches or 6.6ft.(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-size_car)

So why would you need nearly twice that in lane width if we're trying to promote low speed limits? Furthermore, I hope the bike lanes are inside of the parking lanes so they function more like a protected bike lane than nothing but some paint to protect the bikers.

Just because this road was reduced from six to four lanes doesn't make it pedestrian friendly.

If you want low speed limits, you should build the road in a way the makes the driver go the speed limit without having to read a sign. Having a nearly 12ft wide driving lane doesn't set a good precedence. For example, the lanes on the new Crosstown are the same width. So these lanes are technically designed to handle a 70MPH speed limit as ODOT specified on their project website the new Crosstown was designed to handle even though the speed limit is 10 below what it should be.

When you come off of the highway, the lanes should be narrowed, there should be a physical barrier like a round-a-bout or speed bump, if they want to make it a pedestrian oriented road there shouldn't be any dedicated turn lanes, etc. All common sense stuff really.

11ft. driving lanes seems to be pretty wide for a 25MPH speed limit.


When you come off of the highway, the lanes should be narrowed, there should be a physical barrier like a round-a-bout or speed bump, if they want to make it a pedestrian oriented road there shouldn't be any dedicated turn lanes, etc. All common sense stuff really.

I'm totally guessing that when the rest of the boulevard is completed and connected they will rework the speed limits to gradually reduce toward the "boulevard" portion passed Klein. I haven't taken that exit from I40 in a long time, however I remember the speed limit being 45MPH on that stretch (or most of it), but again the one time I've taken that stretch was sometime last year. Maybe they reduced it since the exit to Klein is such a hairpin curve they didn't want people driving up on it at 45. Who knows. But yes I agree, the existing roadway was in no way designed for a 25MPH speed limit.

Call Order 560 (OKC Blvd from west of Walker to Shields(?)) has been pulled from this month's ODOT letting, which is Thursday. Anyone know why?

Call Order 560 (OKC Blvd from west of Walker to Shields(?)) has been pulled from this month's ODOT letting, which is Thursday. Anyone know why?
They realized they forgot bike lanes?

They realized they forgot bike lanes?

It was curious that they included a bike lane detail but none of the traffic sheets shown bike lane markings...

I think that we may be seeing a mixing of city intention and P180 design sheets with ODOT base drawings. Politically, its doubtful that ODOT will include these amenities but potentially probable that the City itself will add them after the keys are handed over.

In the last streetcar meeting, it was made clear that ODOT would do absolutely nothing for the city to incorporate the streetcar. It is the City's intention (this was actually stated in the meeting), to tear up the newly poured concrete after the keys are handed over to retrofit the Boulevard with our equipment.

ODOT has no internal cultural desire to design or paint this roadway for anything other than cars.

It is a depressing waste of American taxpayer money... This cultural resistance to accommodating known local multi-modprojects and ambitions.

It is a depressing waste of American taxpayer money... This cultural resistance to accommodating known local multi-modprojects and ambitions.

Very disappointing, especially as the state economy cannot afford to waste any money right now. We would be better off having them hand over the keys of it as is and not waste any more state money.

ODOT has no internal cultural desire to design or paint this roadway for anything other than cars.

They don't have to. I'd be interested to see, do other state's DOT's dip in local transit affairs outside of state maintained roads? That's a legitimate question, not a statement defending ODOT's position by the way.

Very disappointing, especially as the state economy cannot afford to waste any money right now. We would be better off having them hand over the keys of it as is and not waste any more state money.

Absolutely, I wish they would

They don't have to.

I'd disagree - here's their mission statement, with emphasis added: "The mission of the Oklahoma Department of Transportation is to provide a safe, economical and effective transportation network for the people, commerce and communities of Oklahoma."

If their charge is to provide a network, then they should be working w/ cities to incorporate items that promote the network, especially when they are planned and potentially even already designed, improvements. Additionally, they know that they are handing it over to OKC immediately after finishing. If they are painting the roadway w/ lines already, how they lines are laid out should not matter as long as OKC is happy.

Unfortunately, mission statements and legal requirements are two different things, sadly in this case.

I'd disagree - here's their mission statement, with emphasis added: "The mission of the Oklahoma Department of Transportation is to provide a safe, economical and effective transportation network for the people, commerce and communities of Oklahoma."

If their charge is to provide a network, then they should be working w/ cities to incorporate items that promote the network, especially when they are planned and potentially even already designed, improvements. Additionally, they know that they are handing it over to OKC immediately after finishing. If they are painting the roadway w/ lines already, how they lines are laid out should not matter as long as OKC is happy.

The problem is despite legal requirements, mitigation, mission statements, and anything like that: ODOT is responsible only to Mary Fallin and her regime, and nobody else. The Fallin regime isn't exactly interested in helping OKC. They view OKC's success and resilience, a byproduct of OKC's own investments, as something to hold against it. All Fallin is willing to do for OKC is take our money and give it to oil, give us earthquakes, dirt mound eyesores, crumbling roads, destroy our urban revitalization with road projects, chronically underfund transit, let neighborhoods surrounding the Capitol parking land mass whither away, curtail Brad Henry programs that supported biotech in OKC, and park the family mobile home on the Capitol grounds when she's not going home to Tecumseh or Paoli or whatever cave she crawled out of.

I think a fair amount of blame also falls with the Federal Highway Administration. They are essentially ignoring this Administration's "Livibility Principles". The response to the Gazette by the FHWA spokesperson about this project vividly illustrated that even he did not fully understand the obligation by law that the FHWA is supposed to follow in a Environmental Assessment. They are very confused as to who their responsibility lies... to the taxpayer, not to ODOT.

To fight them to follow their own rules would have cost tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees.

It is cultural and it is systemic all the way down from the Director to the PR guy.

Someone call John Stossel - he will be all over this.

Also, remember when City officials were begged to reject the ODOT plans and instead folded like a cheap law chair?

Also, remember when Public Works wouldn't coordinate P180 with the Streetcar group?

Wait what? I nominate you. Not many of us have Fox News Channel on speed dial.

Wait what? I nominate you. Not many of us have Fox News Channel on speed dial.

I can think of at least 2 dozen OKCTalkers who have the number memorized.

Oklahoma City Boulevard falls behind schedule

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record March 1, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – Development of the new Oklahoma City Boulevard through downtown has fallen behind by a few months due to unexpected problems with utility lines, officials said.

However, the project that is otherwise within budget and still expected to open for traffic before the end of 2017.

The westernmost section of the boulevard, from N. Pennsylvania Avenue to Klein Avenue, is complete. And the eastern section involving the railroad bridge as the boulevard rejoins Interstate 40 is under construction, said Debbie Miller, the city’s assistant engineer. The center section, running from Klein to E.K. Gaylord Avenue, are still in design.

City Councilman Pete White said he was disappointed that City Hall and the Oklahoma Department of Transportation have fallen out of sync. City officials have tried to schedule downtown projects such as laying a route for a modern streetcar around Transportation Department goals in order to minimize costly business and traffic disruptions. While state officials work on the road itself, the city is responsible for designing the adjacent landscape.

Brian Taylor, an engineer for the Oklahoma Department of Transportation, which is managing the project, said the department would still be on schedule except for OGE Energy Corp. lines that have to be relocated.

“They want to put in a line that will service a lot of future development, and it’s a lot easier to do it before we build the boulevard than after,” Taylor said.

“We’ve got a really good relationship with the city of Oklahoma City, and we’ve been working hard to resolve these issues in a timely manner. We don’t foresee any other issues going forward,” Taylor said.

Taylor said the city will pay for the utility relocation. City Hall spokeswoman Shannon Cox said the city is responsible for 20 percent of the cost, billed by the Transportation Department once work is done.

When complete, the boulevard will pass the 77-acre park planned in the MAPS 3 sales tax issue. That part of the boulevard will also pass the new MAPS 3 convention center. City officials are still trying to get the park and boulevard open at about the same time, with the convention center to follow shortly afterward.

The City Council recently approved a $3 million expansion of the streetcar route to allow for changes in the convention center site. Streetcars will stop along the Oklahoma City Boulevard at the MAPS 3 park.

Photo of the the BNSF underpass just south of Lower Bricktown:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/boulevard050316.jpg

Sorry to bump this old thread, but maybe there are some folks that were left from the original group that would know where to start with this.

I've posted in other threads that while the efforts to make this road better than it will be weren't as successful as hoped, I think a concentrated effort like this one should be focused on turning Reno between Lincoln and EK Gaylord what this should have been. Making Reno in this area like it is along the southern end of Myriad Gardens is IMO a slam dunk.

They have started utility work.

This is south of Reno and west of Shartel:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/blvd080317.jpg