SD, what are you doing on this thread, this is not about a burger.I don't get it.

I don't get it.

Probably referencing the Braums thread that went wonky.

But downtown begins at Western, not Walker. That is what this fight is over now. The approach toward Western is already Highway 9 enough.

It is pretty apparent that this battle has already been decided and continuing to fight it only reduces the credibility of those fighting to keep it alive. Sometimes the smart play is to accept your losses and move on.

I feel like when we first saw the renderings of the boulevard, the west end was supposed to look like that, it was the area east of Western to BT that would be more pedestrian friendly. Am I wrong on this?

Is this where were's putting Boulevard development news/info? So hard to tell anymore.

Anyway, found out the hard way tonight trying to escape Bricktown traffic that Compress by the lumber yard is now closed. There was a lot of construction equipment and a huge mound of dirt, right about where the boulevard would go. It was dark and I couldn't see over the mount of dirt, but I suspect they're starting to go under the viaduct...

It is pretty apparent that this battle has already been decided and continuing to fight it only reduces the credibility of those fighting to keep it alive. Sometimes the smart play is to accept your losses and move on.

I'm sorry but what would you know about credibility? I don't think you and pro-urban individuals are ever going to agree on that so it's best not to act like an expert on "credibility" ... Thus you lose your credibility

This kind of how I would like to see the BLVD.

Streetmix (http://streetmix.net/-/124516)

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t31.0-8/1907757_10202688249879922_3787046032763517041_o.jp g

I like it but I think it's wider than the old I-40 was so I'm not sure it would work ROW wise (not sure how much "slack" there is), but I don't know how that works for sure. Can someone enlighten me?

Also, I LOVE the name. Though personally I think they should rename the river again. Ackerman River has a lot more meaning than Oklahoma River.

This kind of how I would like to see the BLVD.

Streetmix (http://streetmix.net/-/124516)



Who are you and what did you do with PluPan?

Also, I LOVE the name. Though personally I think they should rename the river again. Ackerman River has a lot more meaning than Oklahoma River.

What is this Oklahoma River you speak of? I only know of the North Canadian. ;)

Who are you and what did you do with PluPan?He's at the secret underground convention in Dallas that's plotting to widen I-35 to 37 lanes ;)

I like it but I think it's wider than the old I-40 was so I'm not sure it would work ROW wise (not sure how much "slack" there is), but I don't know how that works for sure. Can someone enlighten me?

Also, I LOVE the name. Though personally I think they should rename the river again. Ackerman River has a lot more meaning than Oklahoma River.Yeah, I was wondering if there would be 120ft. to work with... seems like it might a bit too wide.

On edit: according to Snowmans post it isn't too wide which is good.

I like it but I think it's wider than the old I-40 was so I'm not sure it would work ROW wise (not sure how much "slack" there is), but I don't know how that works for sure. Can someone enlighten me?

Also, I LOVE the name. Though personally I think they should rename the river again. Ackerman River has a lot more meaning than Oklahoma River.

The old i40 had over 200 feet of right of way the entire way, closer to 250 feet in parts, this is using 120 feet of that. It is easy to forget that i40's lanes were all much wider than these lanes, it had between a couple to several feet of concrete on both sides of the road per direction, the merge zones and ramp flare out flanking the through lanes used a lot of space too.

Ah, thanks for the details, wasn't sure the total width of the ROW.

This kind of how I would like to see the BLVD.

Streetmix (http://streetmix.net/-/124516)



like

You could easily cut ten feet or so out of that by narrowing the bike lanes to four or five feet at the most. Since it appears they are going to be one way on each side, I don't think that is too out of the question.

This kind of how I would like to see the BLVD.

Streetmix (http://streetmix.net/-/124516)

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t31.0-8/1907757_10202688249879922_3787046032763517041_o.jp g

I think we could all not just live with this, but live on this boulevard.

It looks like spartan and plupan have kissed and made up. :)

I think it's important to support this urbanization process that plupan is going through. I was a huge sprawl advocate, worse than Joel Kotner, when I was a kid. The outlook we all have is changing and we're all learning more all the time.

It looks like spartan and plupan have kissed and made up. :)

Wait. If Plu Pan had been hoping to be hunted by a cougar, and Plu Pan and Spartan have kissed and made up, ... never mind. wrong thread.

http://www.pediatricsnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/borg1.gif

Wait. If Plu Pan had been hoping to be hunted by a cougar, and Plu Pan and Spartan have kissed and made up, ... never mind. wrong thread.

Creepy post is creepy

From today's chat with Steve:

Gary T 10:10 a.m. When will we have final renderings of the Classen/Western/Reno/Blvd interchange?

Steve Lackmeyer 10:11 a.m. I'm surprised we've not seen anything new on this topic yet - I was told earlier this year we would see some meetings announced in April. I'll check into this next week.

I think the delay is caused by a request from the Feds for ODOT to do something they have never done before - design a road for something other than cars that will increase adjacent property values. They simply don't know how to do that.

You know, you make a good point. It is standard for state DOTs to employ environmental specialists and to do environmental impact studies before/during projects, and especially those involving federal funding. It should be a requirement that the same approach be applied to highway projects that traverse urban environments. Meaning, a state DOT should employ urban planners on-staff and hire urban planning consultants on any job going through a city or town to make sure it enhances or at the very least does not adversely affect a community.

It would actually be most important when a project goes throughout a smaller community that doesn't have a planning department, city attorneys, etc., and that lives and dies with the successes or failures of its main street. But even having all of those things, a city like OKC is in obvious danger of being run over, for lack of a better term, by a state/federal highway project. We have no further to look than this project to understand this.

Different mode of transportation have an oddity about them. Freeways lowers adjacent property values and no one wants to live near one. Rail raises adjacent property values and people want to live as close to the station as possible. It makes you wonder how much wealth we left on the table when we spent a trillion dollars on highways and hardly anything on rail. You can clearly see this in OKC where the area along the old I-40 represented the lowest value and land-use in the city and the further away you got from I-40 the higher the land value went. Now with the streetcar we see increased development along lines that haven't even been finalized yet and the new I-40 has been done 2 years (route announced 8 years ago) and narry a related development.

Freeways lowers adjacent property values and no one wants to live near one. That is not true. Weird how all the property values I've seen are higher along freeways than similar properties a mile away from the freeway.

That is not true. Weird how all the property values I've seen are higher along freeways than similar properties a mile away from the freeway.

Not sure about your research methods but there are countless studies showing decreased residential property values adjacent to freeways (or any high-traffic road for that matter). Of course, it is the opposite for auto-based commercial property because it is dependent of drive-by traffic. However, if you compare auto-based commercial to walkable-based commercial the walkable wins in value every time.

My comment was just referring to declining property values. Most large developments are located along or very close to freeways. I also checked Zillow and while it is not always the case, it seems more than not, values are highest along or near freeways.

Looks like this is finally moving forward:

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/newsmedia/press/2014/ADV_042914_public_urged_to_attend_next_meeting_on_ okc_boulevard.pdf

Providing the public one week's notice...

They are learning that ample notice equals (for them) ample headaches. Perhaps they are hoping to hold it to a mere brain wracking migraine this time.

Thanks for the heads up.

Not sure about your research methods but there are countless studies showing decreased residential property values adjacent to freeways (or any high-traffic road for that matter). Of course, it is the opposite for auto-based commercial property because it is dependent of drive-by traffic. However, if you compare auto-based commercial to walkable-based commercial the walkable wins in value every time.

Yes, if you add enough filters, the argument is true. Of course people don't want to live on a high traffic road. But businesses tend to. And it would stand to be true they favor car access to allow lots of out of area shoppers access to them.

They are learning that ample notice equals (for them) ample headaches. Perhaps they are hoping to hold it to a mere brain wracking migraine this time.

Which could ironically lead to a more organized opposition for either this or future projects

I shouldn't be surprised. What I would honestly have hoped for is more notice and for those who attended previous meetings to be contacted directly by mail or email inviting them back for final input into this project. I mean, they took names, addresses, emails, and numbers down at all of these meetings.

To not contact these folks who have given up time to participate just continues to reek of the shell game that is already public perception. ODOT has the opportunity to change and become a better agency. A weeks public notice to those who are on their media/PR list is simply not sufficient outreach on a project of this scale.

I shouldn't be surprised. What I would honestly have hoped for is more notice and for those who attended previous meetings to be contacted directly by mail or email inviting them back for final input into this project. I mean, they took names, addresses, emails, and numbers down at all of these meetings.

To not contact these folks who have given up time to participate just continues to reek of the shell game that is already public perception. ODOT has the opportunity to change and become a better agency. A weeks public notice to those who are on their media/PR list is simply not sufficient outreach on a project of this scale.

Not unlike Donald Sterling, we are going to just have to wait for a whole generation to die off/retire before we can right this ship.

I shouldn't be surprised. What I would honestly have hoped for is more notice and for those who attended previous meetings to be contacted directly by mail or email inviting them back for final input into this project. I mean, they took names, addresses, emails, and numbers down at all of these meetings.

To not contact these folks who have given up time to participate just continues to reek of the shell game that is already public perception. ODOT has the opportunity to change and become a better agency. A weeks public notice to those who are on their media/PR list is simply not sufficient outreach on a project of this scale.

If I had more notice I would be able to attend, but getting off work that night will be difficult without enough time to recruit someone to cover my shift.

Hope others will be able to make it.

Not unlike Donald Sterling, we are going to just have to wait for a whole generation to die off/retire before we can right this ship.

And just like Donald Sterling you want to lump everyone together. This is a problem of some individuals, not a generation. Attack the people responsible and don't just cheap shot whole groups you don't happen to like. There are plenty of that generation who are providing all kinds of leadership and capital to make great and progressive things happen in this city. The fact there are some individuals in leadership in the city who don't think like you doesn't make it a truism for the whole generation.

And just like Donald Sterling you want to lump everyone together. This is a problem of some individuals, not a generation. Attack the people responsible and don't just cheap shot whole groups you don't happen to like. There are plenty of that generation who are providing all kinds of leadership and capital to make great and progressive things happen in this city. The fact there are some individuals in leadership in the city who don't think like you doesn't make it a truism for the whole generation.

I read his reply as "We're going to have to wait for all the folks that are in power at the local/state governments/agencies here in Oklahoma, which most likely are a generation above us, to die off/retire before we can right this ship". I don't think he tarred/feathered every single person of that generation. Correct me if I'm wrong, JTF...

You got it right Travellers. It just so happens those in power right now happen to be baby-boomers. Alas, Rover just sits around and waits to be offended. It is probably a generational thing. The good news is he is cyber-stalking me so he doesn't have to wait long.

8a2lcFMqHxw

that ad is hilarious

Steve's opinion piece from today: Decision nears on downtown Oklahoma City boulevard's design | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/4746468)

One telling quote: "The boulevard options, meanwhile, also still have freeway-style ramps instead of intersections planned at Shartel and Dewey avenues, even as development continues to creep closer to the future road. Taylor said those ramps could be changed in the future to crossings if later needed."

I drove on the west end this past Saturday. I was driving with my 6 yr old son and he asked "Is this a new highway?", I said "no it's not supposed to be", My son replied "It looks like a highway, it has ramps like the highway too".

Steve's opinion piece from today: Decision nears on downtown Oklahoma City boulevard's design | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/4746468)

One telling quote: "The boulevard options, meanwhile, also still have freeway-style ramps instead of intersections planned at Shartel and Dewey avenues, even as development continues to creep closer to the future road. Taylor said those ramps could be changed in the future to crossings if later needed."

What is the benefit of a ramp now that justifies building them? These engineers blithely throw out the idea of tearing them out later, without acknowledging that taxpayer money will build them and it would take taxpayer money to tear them out. If he is suggesting they could nr torn out, he is scknowledging that they may not be mecessary. They are so used to spending billions of dollars that they have lost sight of where that money comes from and that they should be good stewards of our money.

Planning is NOT what engineers do best. They just need to stay in the "back room of design" and let us know if the design can handle the weight load. Money is certainly not their thing.

Taylor, this has got to be one of the "Dumbest" Okie moves I have seen in a while. Build it twice, tear it out again? We move I-40 a couple of blocks to the south to open it up and bring in a boulevard, and then Taylor says to add ramps now & do-it-again and then tear it out again, and then build AGAIN? .... Wow.

Who gave this guy Taylor the ability to make decisions? Engineers need to make recommendations, not decisions. This is what we call YEARS lost of Economic Gain!!!!!!!!!!!

Texas can figure it out, how come we can't Ms. Fallin ?

Bad timing for this, or perhaps good?

People will be down there for Thunder game @ 8:30. PLEASE stop by and voice support for the grid. We have one legitimate shot at this, and we are going to go with designs that were mocked up 15 years ago? Anyone with the smallest pint of common sense knows how much this city and this AREA specifically has changed in even 5 years, to continue with a one-track mind from over a decade ago is a slap in the face to tax payers in OKC.

I will try my best to go by here on the way to the game. Man, how I wished more people in OKC cared/realized the importance of this decision.

Steve's opinion piece from today: Decision nears on downtown Oklahoma City boulevard's design | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/4746468)

One telling quote: "The boulevard options, meanwhile, also still have freeway-style ramps instead of intersections planned at Shartel and Dewey avenues, even as development continues to creep closer to the future road. Taylor said those ramps could be changed in the future to crossings if later needed."

The future called - it said ODOT wasn't invited.

But if city residents and leaders were to press for a restoration of the street grid instead of a boulevard in the area, that funding is not assured.

Thats stupid government for you either you build the more expensive highway or they won't fund the far cheaper grid option. I say the city should just give ODOT and the Federal Highway Administration the finger and just gradually improve the grid throughout years. It's not like there isn't a grid already there.

The no-build option (with finger extended) seems like the best possible solution right now. Maybe we need to contact Congressmen and Senators in other states to see if they want the funding we are willing to give up. There were no shortage of states willing to take funds Florida turned down for HSR.

It sounds like they have not heard any of the public input.

It sounds like they have not heard any of the public input.

They heard it, they just don't care.

And who in the hell decided to have the open house the same night of the Thunder playoff game? I mean there may be lots of people down there, but something tells me not for the boulevard open house.

So, can OKCTalk actually mobilize to address the issue? Go to the OKDOT downtown boulevard open house at the Cox Convention Center from 6-8pm tonight with free parkin at Santa Fe garage for attendees. It's right before the game too.

And who in the hell decided to have the open house the same night of the Thunder playoff game? I mean there may be lots of people down there, but something tells me not for the boulevard open house.

You really think they want to be embarrassed again like their first meeting?

It seems a few signs informing citizens of the issue might bring in some people...

Just put up some signs that read "Pre-game Thunder Player Meet and Greet" and direct them to the ODOT room.

The Vancouver city planner speaking in the Mayor's Devrlopment Roundtable today said it is absolutely critical that it not be a highway. He said it needs to be a means of connection, not division, and it should be more like the 19th century concept of a boulevard.

^^

Well gersh darnit -- we aint gun have none of that Canadian style cities here. This is Merica. Them commies up north can keep their derned bike lanes.

The Vancouver city planner speaking in the Mayor's Devrlopment Roundtable today said it is absolutely critical that it not be a highway. He said it needs to be a means of connection, not division, and it should be more like the 19th century concept of a boulevard.

Did you know that Vancouver is the largest city in NA that doesn't have a downtown freeway. Of course, ODOT would say, "See, he has no idea what he is talking about.", and therein lies our problem. We are trying to build a high-density walkable city and ODOT is still trying to build a low-density automobile city. We have, not just different, but opposite goals and objectives.