I just posted to Facebook-

"OK Boulevarder's!. I spent this afternoon taking a nice visit out to the local Federal Highway Administration Office to bring you an official update!

Basically, we are waiting on ODOT not the FHWA. All four designs including a "no build" and "going back to the street grid" alternatives are still in the running.

ODOT has not completed detailed traffic analysis and design (before final design) for the final environmental review that the FHWA requires.

Because of FBB's and the broader public's efforts, the selection of which alternative will be prefaced by which alternative has the least environmental and socioeconomic impact.

While there is no firm date set, it was suggested to me that the submission and scoring of these various choices may occur this spring. Ideally, one of the options would rise to the top.

There were some suggestions as to how FBB may continue to assist in the process. I will be going over the details with Bob and the team to see how FBB may proceed in the next few months."


Btw- you can join Friends for a Better Boulevard here- https://www.facebook.com/groups/BetterBoulevard

Sounds almost encouraging. Can't wait to see how ODOT will lie like with rail ROW to Tulsa.

Well, it comes down to how badly they can skew traffic modeling to get or "get close" to the option that they want. But they have much more difficulty with the "socioeconomic" angles and so forth.

I would recommend those who care about this issue to renew writing letters directly to the FHWA that pinpoint specific arguments. I am writing one about the impacts to Santa Fe Station and pedestrian connectivity under the Bouelvard into Bricktown for example.

There are many, many angles that one could take in arguing for the street grid or a lessser impact design. Writing about connectivity between the new MAPS 3 Park and Convention Center for example.

Thanks for the update, UP!

Np. Maybe we should have an FBB meeting and letter writing event. Anybody up for participating in such an event?

Yea. Count me in, of course.

LA Times (http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-78974624/)

Sigh. How do we make city staff and ODOT understand the people are more important than cars?

Is a roundabout possible despite conventional "wisdom"? I would like to know the vehicle counts at the LA project.

City says Boyle Heights traffic roundabout is moving in the right direction | The Eastsider LA (http://www.theeastsiderla.com/2014/01/city-says-boyle-heights-traffic-roundabout-is-moving-in-the-right-direction/)

If any of you have seen the movie Small Soldiers and found yourself falling in love with the idyllic small town portrayed in the movie, you would be surprised to know that the town square/traffic circle where the toy store was located is actually the LA basin community of Orange, CA. Check it out on GoogleEarth.

With the upcoming developments at the Lumber Yard, what is the timeline of our fine BLVD ? ...this is not the chicken and the egg scenario, it is critical to get this in ASAP.

It would be nice to have this sooner rather than later. I'd opt for a divided six lane blvd. with a street car and very wide sidewalks with a 35mph speed limit.

It would be nice to have this sooner rather than later. I'd opt for a divided six lane blvd. with a street car and very wide sidewalks with a 35mph speed limit.

No.

No.

No.

Need I go on?

With the upcoming developments at the Lumber Yard, what is the timeline of our fine BLVD ? ...this is not the chicken and the egg scenario, it is critical to get this in ASAP.

No, it's critical to get it (whatever it is) done right, not fast.

With the upcoming developments at the Lumber Yard, what is the timeline of our fine BLVD ? ...this is not the chicken and the egg scenario, it is critical to get this in ASAP.

What upcoming developments? When is this developments you speak of coming up?

If you build the boulevard plutonic suggests, there will be nothing. This is critical because it's one of the last remaining spots we haven't compromised and can still have world class.

No, it's critical to get it (whatever it is) done right, not fast.

I want it done "Right" too, but it doesn't take 1 - 2 years to decide that. It doesn't take 6 months to design our "options". Again, I want the Best in Design / World Class. I want a Blvd we can all be proud of w/ High Design / Walkability / Beautiful. I want a Blvd that is 25 mph.

But, we can't wait 2 years for this...it is holding things up.

( Note: I'm not for anything that has ODOT stamped on it in any way. )

I want it done "Right" too, but it doesn't take 1 - 2 years to decide that. It doesn't take 6 months to design our "options". Again, I want the Best in Design / World Class. I want a Blvd we can all be proud of w/ High Design / Walkability / Beautiful. I want a Blvd that is 25 mph.

But, we can't wait 2 years for this...it is holding things up.

( Note: I'm not for anything that has ODOT stamped on it in any way. )

Get on the phone with FTA and your legislator and ODOT then and ask them what the hold up is. The city has organized and clearly offered the best way to go forward here, the holdup truly is perplexing.

Get on the phone with FTA and your legislator and ODOT then and ask them what the hold up is. The city has organized and clearly offered the best way to go forward here, the holdup truly is perplexing.

Here is my solution, let's hold Ms. Fallin responsible for the results. This is one she needs to "push through / expedite" and make sure this is the Best in Design / World Class. She needs to push this through and hand it off to Mr. Cornett.

This is the dumbest "OKIE" position to have. We can't decide on ( Where we are going to pour concrete? ....where are we going to place the planters? ....what signage is needed? )

Ms. Fallin needs to hand-carry this through w/ Mr. Cornett at the same time. We need to get out of our own way and get it done.If you get it done correctly, then we will name the Blvd ( Fallin Blvd / Cornett Blvd ). This is Billions of dollars you are holding up. This is jobs, jobs, jobs.

Here is my solution, let's hold Ms. Fallin responsible for the results. This is one she needs to "push through / expedite" and make sure this is the Best in Design / World Class. She needs to push this through and hand it off to Mr. Cornett.

This is the dumbest "OKIE" position to have. We can't decide on ( Where we are going to pour concrete? ....where are we going to place the planters? ....what signage is needed? )

Ms. Fallin needs to hand-carry this through w/ Mr. Cornett at the same time. We need to get out of our own way and get it done.If you get it done correctly, then we will name the Blvd ( Fallin Blvd / Cornett Blvd ). This is Billions of dollars you are holding up. This is jobs, jobs, jobs.

Huh?

Don't try to make sense of anything Vision posts, that way lies madness.

Huh?

when both sides blame the other side for the delays. Bottleneck. Politics.

Don't try to make sense of anything Vision posts, that way lies madness.

...David, I will go slower for you. You may need to push your desk up to the front of the class & pay closer attention.

Don't try to make sense of anything Vision posts, that way lies madness.

Or, they are someone / group that chooses to argue against a POV just because they don't like the messenger. Republicans vs. Dems. City vs. State. etc.

If politics is your answer for a solution, then you are part of the problem.

...David, I will go slower for you. You may need to push your desk up to the front of the class & pay closer attention.

Like I said in the Braums thread, I never put anyone on ignore just in case I ever miss anything useful out of them, so I can assure you that I have in fact been paying attention.

Hope springs eternal.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

No.

No.

No.

Need I go on?you didn't even need to say it man.

What upcoming developments? When is this developments you speak of coming up?

If you build the boulevard plutonic suggests, there will be nothing. This is critical because it's one of the last remaining spots we haven't compromised and can still have world class.how do you figure? There are tons of six lane divided corridors around the world that have massive new developments and are thriving with people walking every which way.

Or, they are someone / group that chooses to argue against a POV just because they don't like the messenger. Republicans vs. Dems. City vs. State. etc.

If politics is your answer for a solution, then you are part of the problem.

Well yes, when you have two or more groups debating about what form the boulevard should take or if its even needed at all its called politics. I see you paid attention in social studies class.

In case you haven't noticed, their building the eastern connection to the boulevard as we speak.

Here is my solution, let's hold Ms. Fallin responsible for the results. This is one she needs to "push through / expedite" and make sure this is the Best in Design / World Class. She needs to push this through and hand it off to Mr. Cornett.

This is the dumbest "OKIE" position to have. We can't decide on ( Where we are going to pour concrete? ....where are we going to place the planters? ....what signage is needed? )

Ms. Fallin needs to hand-carry this through w/ Mr. Cornett at the same time. We need to get out of our own way and get it done.If you get it done correctly, then we will name the Blvd ( Fallin Blvd / Cornett Blvd ). This is Billions of dollars you are holding up. This is jobs, jobs, jobs.

Ms. Fallin doesn't have any authority in the progress of the boulevard. The critical path at this juncture is compliance with the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) because federal dollars are involved. NEPA is very likely the only reason we got to revisit the design process and have a chance for a well designed, at-grade boulevard instead of a clone of I-40. It's painfully obvious that you know very little about how public works are actually executed.

Don't feed the troll, ya'll.

Don't feed the troll, ya'll.

He's not a troll because I think his intentions are good, he's just not grounded in reality. Either way, things would go smoother around here if we all just let his blather go in one ear and out the other.

Or, they are someone / group that chooses to argue against a POV just because they don't like the messenger. Republicans vs. Dems. City vs. State. etc.

If politics is your answer for a solution, then you are part of the problem.

Great speech but this isn't Republicans v Democrats. This is Friends for a Better Boulevard.

Don't feed the troll, ya'll.

You are right, my mistake.

Ms. Fallin doesn't have any authority in the progress of the boulevard. The critical path at this juncture is compliance with the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) because federal dollars are involved. NEPA is very likely the only reason we got to revisit the design process and have a chance for a well designed, at-grade boulevard instead of a clone of I-40. It's painfully obvious that you know very little about how public works are actually executed.

I am all to familiar with Local / State / Federal projects, that is what worries me !!!!!!!!!! Public Works projects are the "snails" pace from Concept - To Completion.

...and if the leverage ( NEPA ) used to find a "gap" in the process, then fine. Guys, this is a road. Let's not make it bigger than it is. Dirtwork / Steel / Concrete / Signage / ...and landscaping. And the two parties involved ( ODOT - Ms. Fallin is the responsidble party for that dept & City of Oklahoma City - Mr. Cornett is the responsible party for that entity) should be pulling this through now.

OKVision - do you understand why your posts get an unusual degree of push back?

Don't feed the troll, ya'll.

Those who use the word troll, are usually those that just don't agree with the other person. "...so they must be a troll." It's a small minded / internet / inmature word.

CuatrodeMayo, the word (troll) is not used at the Corporate C-Level, because it stifles creativity. I find that odd coming from you.

Now, back to the point at hand, this project needs a hard completion date.

If there are 15 people that don't agree with someone and they are from all parts of the city, all walks of life, who do you think the problem is? The 15 people or the one all the people have a problem with?

OKVision - do you understand why your posts get an unusual degree of push back?

Spartan, you may have me confused with someone that concerns himself w/ that. I am a bottom line guy. I'm not here to make "friends" or a single dollar from anyone here. I have a (zero) bias on for many of these topics. It's a more liberating position.

...and I don't settle for average. ...or the position of "that's how we've alway's dun it". ..."or we caint". ..."we caint afford it".

If there are 15 people that don't agree with someone and they are from all parts of the city, all walks of life, who do you think the problem is? The 15 people or the one all the people have a problem with?

warreng, there is not a problem here. This is a topic about a ROAD. This is a Forum about OKC. ...move on!

Wrong, there is a problem here. You are telling everyone else they are wrong in their thinking and you choose to believe your way is the only way. There are other ways of thinking, there are other ways of doing things besides your way. Governments do not operate the same way as a sole proprietor. There are lots of channels they have to go through to get projects done and approved, whether you like it or not. And before you say something, it is not about the cost, it is about getting it done right the first time. If we were to just get the BLVD done quickly, the intersection of Western/Classsen/Reno/BLVD would have been very divided, much like the old I-40, only lower. Going through the proper channels to get it done right is getting it done right the first time. Sometimes the fastest way isn't always the best way. Now, if you owned a bunch of acreage and wanted to build a road to your house, you could do it however you wanted because it was your money and your property. We are talking about city money and city property paid for by the taxpayers and multiple people working to get this thing built that would make sense. Some engineers want it high speed, six lanes, etc. They think the purpose of this street is to get people in and out of DT as soon as possible. There are some planners and other people who want this built with pedestrians in mind, wide sidewalks, narrow lanes, slow speed limits, lots of crosswalks and grass medians. Now, if you don't like what is going on, contact your city councilman/woman directly to voice your displeasure on this project and why it is not moving along like you want it to. That is what they are there for. Or... BUY THE ROAD! That way you can have say over what is going to happen. Until then, you are just a guy behind the computer whining that no will do what he wants them to do but in the meantime has nothing but b!t@h and moan that things are not being done the way you want them to be done.

Here is the city council director with links to all the city council's e-mail and phone numbers. Do something about it instead of just talking about it.
City of Oklahoma City | City Council (http://www.okc.gov/council/index.html)

Wrong, there is a problem here. You are telling everyone else they are wrong in their thinking and you choose to believe your way is the only way. There are other ways of thinking, there are other ways of doing things besides your way. Governments do not operate the same way as a sole proprietor. There are lots of channels they have to go through to get projects done and approved, whether you like it or not. And before you say something, it is not about the cost, it is about getting it done right the first time. If we were to just get the BLVD done quickly, the intersection of Western/Classsen/Reno/BLVD would have been very divided, much like the old I-40, only lower. Going through the proper channels to get it done right is getting it done right the first time. Sometimes the fastest way isn't always the best way. Not, if you owned a bunch of acreage and wanted to build a road to your house, you could do it however you wanted because it was your money and your property. We are talking about city money and city property paid for by the taxpayers and multiple people working to get this thing built that would make sense. Some engineers want it high speed, six lanes, etc. They think the purpose of this street is to get people in and out of DT as soon as possible. There are some planners and other people who want this built with pedestrians in mind, wide sidewalks, narrow lanes, slow speed limits, lots of crosswalks and grass medians. Now, if you don't like what is going on, contact your city councilman/woman directly to voice your displeasure on this project and why it is not moving along like you want it to. That is what they are there for. Or... BUY THE ROAD! That way you can have say over what is going to happen. Until then, you are just a guy behind the computer whining that no will do what he wants them to do but in the meantime has nothing but b!t@h and moan that things are not being done the way you want them to be done.

Here is the city council director with links to all the city council's e-mail and phone numbers. Do something about it instead of just talking about it.
City of Oklahoma City | City Council (http://www.okc.gov/council/index.html)

Warreng, I'm going to "look past" 80% of this, but you did hit on a few very good points regarding the BLVD. ...stay on point.

Engineers provide a function. Somehow in Oklahoma, they are put into a decision making role and this is not their strength. This Blvd should be a (reflection of where we are today and a Vision of what we can be tomorrow.) It must be a Pedestrian Friendly First Blvd w/o question, but we do need to get it done ASAP. ...it is holding things up now.

Warren, you nailed it.

Warreng, I'm going to "look past" 80% of this, but you did hit on a few very good points regarding the BLVD. ...stay on point.

Engineers provide a function. Somehow in Oklahoma, they are put into a decision making role and this is not their strength. This Blvd should be a (reflection of where we are today and a Vision of what we can be tomorrow.) It must be a Pedestrian Friendly First Blvd w/o question, but we do need to get it done ASAP. ...it is holding things up now.

I agree with what you say, but I don't understand why you're saying it's holding anything up.

Don't feed the troll, ya'll.

After reading the last page I want to apologize, Cuatro. You were right, I was wrong. Seriously people, don't engage. You're banging your head against a wall. I know, I did it once. Never again.

I agree with what you say, but I don't understand why you're saying it's holding anything up.

With every 6 months we add to the completion date, the further our "outside" investment opportunities will hold-off regarding Core to Shore ( and the surrounding areas ). The Blvd is the artery that they are looking to for access.

Don't let anyone kid you, the big money (outside investment) will not spend until they have 100% access to their properties.

With every 6 months we add to the completion date, the further our "outside" investment opportunities will hold-off regarding Core to Shore ( and the surrounding areas ). The Blvd is the artery that they are looking to for access.

Don't let anyone kid you, the big money (outside investment) will not spend until they have 100% access to their properties.

The only segment that was delayed by discussion was between Western and Walker, given they way it was originally planed we are not loosing any money off that and may well be increasing the level of development worth doing between those streets, if done as a grid we are also raising the square footage of developable downtown property.

He's not a troll because I think his intentions are good, he's just not grounded in reality. Either way, things would go smoother around here if we all just let his blather go in one ear and out the other.He has good ideas and, for the most part, I don't mind him being around here and I appreciate his enthusiasm. I don't always agree with him, but he's certainly not the worst.

If there are 15 people that don't agree with someone and they are from all parts of the city, all walks of life, who do you think the problem is? The 15 people or the one all the people have a problem with?There have been scenarios where the minority ends up being right and majority was wrong. Numbers of people who think similar thoughts mean nothing. If you were caught researching evolution just 500 years ago, you could be hung. Why do you think Leonardo da Vinci hid his work and wrote backwards in Greek?

wide sidewalks, narrow lanes, slow speed limits, lots of crosswalks and grass medians.and if it isn't that, then it a suburban piece of crap, huh?

As for your other points, how do you know he isn't doing anything about it? Just because he puts his point across and doesn't agree with people on here doesn't mean he disregards other people's ideas? Are we not here to share our opinion? Can we not have an opinion of an opinion?

The only trolls I have ever seen on this site were Torea and Edgar.... what exactly do you define as a troll?

and if it isn't that, then it a suburban piece of crap, huh?

As for your other points, how do you know he isn't doing anything about it? Just because he puts his point across and doesn't agree with people on here doesn't mean he disregards other people's ideas? Are we not here to share our opinion? Can we not have an opinion of an opinion?

The only trolls I have ever seen on this site were Torea and Edgar.... what exactly do you define as a troll?

No, if it wasn't, then it wouldn't be what we were led to believe it to be when the idea first came out about the boulevard. It is supposed to be a gateway to DT/BT to slow people down and get them to enjoy that area. If it is going to be six lanes and divided, we might as well call it the NW Expressway part two.

How do I know he hadn't done anything about it? I don't. But he has never said once that he contacted someone and what they said. I have written to Meg several times about the boulevard and several other items and have usually gotten a response back. If he has contacted someone, I would like to hear what he had to say and what they had to say in return.

Contrary to what you might think, I don't mind if people have differing views/opinions than I do. I encourage them because I feel everyone can learn something from someone. He does not respect anyone else's opinion and tries to shove all his beliefs down everyone else's throat. Even when confronted with the facts, he refuses to think that someone else may be right and he may be wrong. He even challenged Steve lackmeyer about the original MAPS being seamless.

No, if it wasn't, then it wouldn't be what we were led to believe it to be when the idea first came out about the boulevard. It is supposed to be a gateway to DT/BT to slow people down and get them to enjoy that area. If it is going to be six lanes and divided, we might as well call it the NW Expressway part two. Fine. I'm not saying it has to be six lanes, all I am saying is it could be six lanes and still have amazing development.


Even when confronted with the facts, he refuses to think that someone else may be right and he may be wrong. He even challenged Steve lackmeyer about the original MAPS being seamless. I honestly don't remember that. That would be very questionable if the case, which I'm not doubting.

Fine. I'm not saying it has to be six lanes, all I am saying is it could be six lanes and still have amazing development.

Agree. Shocked? ;) This is a road in the urban core. It has potential to be iconic for us like Michigan in Chicago. They key is going to come down to ensuring it is walkable but also that development along it is appropriate. That means higher density and no parking in front of the buildings.

Fine. I'm not saying it has to be six lanes, all I am saying is it could be six lanes and still have amazing development.

I honestly don't remember that. That would be very questionable if the case, which I'm not doubting.

Here is the conversation I was talking about:

http://www.okctalk.com/transportation/30513-friends-better-boulevard-75.html

No, if it wasn't, then it wouldn't be what we were led to believe it to be when the idea first came out about the boulevard. It is supposed to be a gateway to DT/BT to slow people down and get them to enjoy that area. If it is going to be six lanes and divided, we might as well call it the NW Expressway part two.

How do I know he hadn't done anything about it? I don't. But he has never said once that he contacted someone and what they said. I have written to Meg several times about the boulevard and several other items and have usually gotten a response back. If he has contacted someone, I would like to hear what he had to say and what they had to say in return.

Contrary to what you might think, I don't mind if people have differing views/opinions than I do. I encourage them because I feel everyone can learn something from someone. He does not respect anyone else's opinion and tries to shove all his beliefs down everyone else's throat. Even when confronted with the facts, he refuses to think that someone else may be right and he may be wrong. He even challenged Steve lackmeyer about the original MAPS being seamless.

warreng, this is Way off Topic, but I will address it. I still hold the position of Seamless from the Voters / Citizens POV. We voted with great expectations and we got what we were promised. Steve's position was in the "making sausage" area. When you / a person / Steve L is that close to a project / issue, it doesn't feel as "seamless". I was saying Steve L was too close to the trees. (done w/ that point ).

Yesterday, Steve L was saying that the Lumber Yard project was ONLY a rumor on a website. Based on his educated guess, it must be a rumor. Based on his sources, it must be a rumor. ..and i'm sure many would take his word at face value, and that would be an ok position for many.

I'm not that guy. I look at my experience & combine that with what Pete was saying and I can "see more merit" into this being more substance / than rumor. Does that make me wrong? ....No. We all have our sources and network of friends / industry insiders.

This is a Forum to discuss these opinions. ....beat up the issue. Kinda like making sausage. Get's a little messy too. LOL.

The only segment that was delayed by discussion was between Western and Walker, given they way it was originally planed we are not loosing any money off that and may well be increasing the level of development worth doing between those streets, if done as a grid we are also raising the square footage of developable downtown property.

Yes, we did not need a "Highway 9 Norman or a Northwest Expressway" going through our new OKC Central Park & Convention Center. That had to be one of the dumbest ( Okie ) moves we have seen in a while. Yes, very glad this was stopped before any further damage could occur.

I want a thriving Central Park w/ 50 mid-rise buildings. ...I want Core to Shore to be ALL under-construction at the same time. I want OKC to be Crane City.

Just like the song says "Oklahoma City is mighty pretty." ...it's jobs, jobs, jobs.

Boulevard would be the PERFECT place to implement the Dutch bike lanes that Sid brought up awhile back.

Boulevard would be the PERFECT place to implement the Dutch bike lanes that Sid brought up awhile back.Yeah, that'd be pretty cool. At this rate, we just have to have to hope it doesn't become another limited access highway. :/

Yes, we did not need a "Highway 9 Norman or a Northwest Expressway" going through our new OKC Central Park & Convention Center. That had to be one of the dumbest ( Okie ) moves we have seen in a while. Yes, very glad this was stopped before any further damage could occur.

I want a thriving Central Park w/ 50 mid-rise buildings. ...I want Core to Shore to be ALL under-construction at the same time. I want OKC to be Crane City.

Just like the song says "Oklahoma City is mighty pretty." ...it's jobs, jobs, jobs.

But downtown begins at Western, not Walker. That is what this fight is over now. The approach toward Western is already Highway 9 enough.

There are so many holes in this, I don't know where to start.


warreng, this is Way off Topic, but I will address it. I still hold the position of Seamless from the Voters / Citizens POV.

So, the people who voted for/against in 1993 is where you hold the position. I am curious as to how old you where when this started and were you living in OKC. I was not so I didn't know what was happening. I was living in Tahlequah in 1993 and was in 8th grade so really the only thing I knew about OKC was that my grandfather lived here and we would come visit about five times a year and head back immediately after. I knew the state capital was here, that was about all I knew/cared about OKC when I was 14. Where were you and what were you doing when the vote happened? Again, this gives me an idea of what your understanding of the process was.


We voted with great expectations and we got what we were promised.

The first part of this statement is true, there were great expectations. The second part is as far from the truth as I can even imagine. The Oklahoma Spirit Trolleys were originally planned to be more of a streetcar type of thing and every single project came in over budget. There was a six month extension to raise all of the money because the estimates for the tax collections and the building estimates were off. So, we did not get what was promised. Was it worth it? Absolutely. If I were able to vote back then, I would have voted for them too, but to say it is seamless is literally the most incorrect use of the word that I can think of. Why don't you say, the juice was worth the squeeze or the proof is in the pudding.


Steve's position was in the "making sausage" area. When you / a person / Steve L is that close to a project / issue, it doesn't feel as "seamless". I was saying Steve L was too close to the trees. (done w/ that
point ).

Steve covered the projects back then. He knew what was going on, where the money was being spent, how it was going over budget, etc. It was being reported in the papers. If you say he was too close to the projects, what about my father in law? He voted against it when it came up because he never thought it would amount to anything. He still admits it (one of the very few). I talked to him about this and he said everything was over budget, not finished as promised, etc. I know if I asked him he would say the projects were anything but seamless. He was just a voter/citizen, so there is your POV from someone who lived through it.

There are so many holes in this, I don't know where to start.



So, the people who voted for/against in 1993 is where you hold the position. I am curious as to how old you where when this started and were you living in OKC. I was not so I didn't know what was happening. I was living in Tahlequah in 1993 and was in 8th grade so really the only thing I knew about OKC was that my grandfather lived here and we would come visit about five times a year and head back immediately after. I knew the state capital was here, that was about all I knew/cared about OKC when I was 14. Where were you and what were you doing when the vote happened? Again, this gives me an idea of what your understanding of the process was.



The first part of this statement is true, there were great expectations. The second part is as far from the truth as I can even imagine. The Oklahoma Spirit Trolleys were originally planned to be more of a streetcar type of thing and every single project came in over budget. There was a six month extension to raise all of the money because the estimates for the tax collections and the building estimates were off. So, we did not get what was promised. Was it worth it? Absolutely. If I were able to vote back then, I would have voted for them too, but to say it is seamless is literally the most incorrect use of the word that I can think of. Why don't you say, the juice was worth the squeeze or the proof is in the pudding.



Steve covered the projects back then. He knew what was going on, where the money was being spent, how it was going over budget, etc. It was being reported in the papers. If you say he was too close to the projects, what about my father in law? He voted against it when it came up because he never thought it would amount to anything. He still admits it (one of the very few). I talked to him about this and he said everything was over budget, not finished as promised, etc. I know if I asked him he would say the projects were anything but seamless. He was just a voter/citizen, so there is your POV from someone who lived through it.

You said you didn't know what was happening in OKC because you were in 8th grade in Tahlequah? ...like I said, Seamless for the 90% that did vote for it. It was SO successful, we even voted yes for kids on MAPSII.... ....and MAPSIII too.

I stand on my position.

So I see OKVis has decided to try hijacking another thread. Goodie.

So I see OKVis has decided to try hijacking another thread. Goodie.

SD, what are you doing on this thread, this is not about a burger.