Maybe a nice cigar too.

..what you don't understand is " There is always differences between proposals ". That is the nature of Large Invitiatives. There is always (some one reviewing), Like I said before, there many things that can be done to PULL it forward.

I'm not "just typing to see it on a board" , but when you get in that large conference room, they need to put excuses aside, and get this moving. This is the "$1 Billion in Economic Development waiting on a small street". NOW, I ask all of you, why are we not PULLING THIS THING THROUGH ? I don't care who gets the credit, let's just make it happen. :)

Actually, were at this point in decision making process because ODOT likes to pull random numbers out of their but too and tried to force us to accept the elevated boulevard option. Waiting on a small street? The grid is there and operational. If anything core to shore development is waiting on the central park to be built, but really its going to take time for this area to develop.

And the boulevard is under construction right now from Penn to Western. It will be mostly an elevated berm that will limit the full potential of core to shore directly north or south of it. If they build the elevated bridge from western to walker the damage will be even worse. So its not hurting my feelings that the central section is taking more time. Eventually the grid streets need to be rebuilt or repaved, but were not at the point where their hurting development of core to shore.

Actually, were at this point in decision making process because ODOT likes to pull random numbers out of their but too and tried to force us to accept the elevated boulevard option. Waiting on a small street? The grid is there and operational. If anything core to shore development is waiting on the central park to be built, but really its going to take time for this area to develop.

And the boulevard is under construction right now from Penn to Western. It will be mostly an elevated berm that will limit the full potential of core to shore directly north or south of it. If they build the elevated bridge from western to walker the damage will be even worse. So its not hurting my feelings that the central section is taking more time. Eventually the grid streets need to be rebuilt or repaved, but were not at the point where their hurting development of core to shore.

First, Thank you to the Friends for a Better Blvd. YOU, GET IT! This is a MUST for OKC. This access point ( Blvd ) is the first taste of what the "vision" of any / all future development South of Reno will reflect. This BLVD MUST have the feel of ( Amazing in Environment ). All developers will < digest > the level of detail / design / vision of what our CORE TO SHORE will become through this Blvd. It is access, it is style, it is vision. This is NOT the time to go "cheap". This the time to SHOW OUR BEST. Project 180 hits the nail on the Head, and the BLVD should be / must be even higher in excellence.

NOW, these developers can not make this acccessment until this "street" is in. This is the LINK ( KEY ) to their decisions. This is the "first domino" in this area of development and that is what will help move the "outside" investment / development community into decision mode. ( this is the build it and they will come senario ).

This decision is (Way above ODOT)...and the entire STATE is looking for our BEST.

Cracks me up.

It's doubtful that developments are ready to happen and be announced the second the boulevard design is in place. There might be developments being planned, but I doubt there is a tidal wave of developments anxiously awaiting the opening. The boulevard will open, and announcements will slowly come in of new developments along it. Not this tsunami wave you are envisioning.

It's doubtful that developments are ready to happen and be announced the second the boulevard design is in place. There might be developments being planned, but I doubt there is a tidal wave of developments anxiously awaiting the opening. The boulevard will open, and announcements will slowly come in of new developments along it. Not this tsunami wave you are envisioning.

...and some people, never see it. ( catche22 - You made my point for me.)

I think it is time we stop feeding the (uninformed? naive? delusional?) poster.

I think it is time we stop feeding the (uninformed? naive? delusional?) poster.

...like I said, "Vision is not always, automatic."

Even when people that are "close" to the subject can't see what is in front of them ( this would be the narrow-minded CANT DO ITs), then how can we expect others that are further away ( this would be the Outside Investment & Development Groups , ie. Dallas High Rise Condos Group ) ever be interested in OKC?

...this is why we need to have it ready , BLVD... ASAP, and help our local economy w/ additional outside investments opportunities.

...like I said, "Vision is not always, automatic."

Even when people that are "close" to the subject can't see what is in front of them ( this would be the narrow-minded CANT DO ITs), then how can we expect others that are further away ( this would be the Outside Investment & Development Groups , ie. Dallas High Rise Condos Group ) ever be interested in OKC?

...this is why we need to have it ready , BLVD... ASAP, and help our local economy w/ additional outside investments opportunities.

Dude, we can all dream up our perfect vision of the city, but unless you got some money to pony up, or some sway with these high-roller investors/developers to make that dream happen, then your exercise is exactly pointless.

The efforts of this forum are best spent trying to find ways to maximize the limited resources that we actually have to sway current or upcoming projects to be the best that they can.

There's a phrase that you would do well to heed: "Rome wasn't built in a day"

"This is why we need to have it ready , BLVD... ASAP, and help our local economy w/ additional outside investments opportunities."

If we rushed through this whole process and got it done as soon as humanly possible, we would have an elevated six lane Boulevard over Classen/Western with no sidewalks, bike lanes or street side parking with a speed limit of 45 mph or higher. It would also split the north and south part and not allow them to develop properly.

With time and groups like Friends for a Better Boulevard and hiring consultants, we have a chance to have a roundabout, return the street to the grid or have something else more pedestrian/bike friendly. Faster is not always better.

Dude, we can all dream up our perfect vision of the city, but unless you got some money to pony up, or some sway with these high-roller investors/developers to make that dream happen, then your exercise is exactly pointless.

The efforts of this forum are best spent trying to find ways to maximize the limited resources that we actually have to sway current or upcoming projects to be the best that they can.

There's a phrase that you would do well to heed: "Rome wasn't built in a day"

Rome ??? Ok, what happened to Rome? I will tell you the "rest" of the story. Since they couldn't build Rome in a day, the outside investment community went down the road and spent their money in Monaco. That's what happens when we keep using that excuse.

You have to look at the BIG picture and see what we can be, not just "status quo".

Rome ??? Ok, what happened to Rome? I will tell you the "rest" of the story. Since they couldn't build Rome in a day, the outside investment community went down the road and spent their money in Monaco. That's what happens when we keep using that excuse.

You have to look at the BIG picture and see what we can be, not just "status quo".

I'm going to violate my own post above, but you do realize you are arguing with yourself? No one is saying they don't want the Boulevard done. No one is saying we want to do nothing. You are the only one here saying that, and then you are arguing with us because you said it.

You did bring up an important point though... we've been overselling Rome for far too long. After all, they've only kept things as the status quo for far too long (they even spoke the language that gave us the phrase "status quo"!) The Monaco Empire, though... those thousands of years of greatness, splendor, building, science, architecture; that's what we should be emulating!

I'm going to violate my own post above, but you do realize you are arguing with yourself? No one is saying they don't want the Boulevard done. No one is saying we want to do nothing. You are the only one here saying that, and then you are arguing with us because you said it.

You did bring up an important point though... we've been overselling Rome for far too long. After all, they've only kept things as the status quo for far too long (they even spoke the language that gave us the phrase "status quo"!) The Monaco Empire, though... those thousands of years of greatness, splendor, building, science, architecture; that's what we should be emulating!

...Rome is know for it's Ruins. ( don't fly-off the handle, i'm just making a point.) In Rome, Complacency "over-took" a sense of urgency at some point in time. Rome is know for it's "history", ....let's help OKC keep moving forward for tomorrow.

...Rome is know for it's Ruins. ( don't fly-off the handle, i'm just making a point.) In Rome, Complacency "over-took" a sense of urgency at some point in time. Rome is know for it's "history", ....let's help OKC keep moving forward for tomorrow.Dude what the hell is wrong with you???? Do realize how long some of the monuments in Rome have lasted??? We buildings and houses in Detroit that are in extreme disrepair and some have collapsed, which aren't even one hundred years old. You want to talk about Rome, the Colosseum is something like 2,000 years old and took ten years to build, and it is still standing and even safe for people to walk under. Our state capitol here in Oklahoma is falling apart, and it isn't even 500 years old, there are actually parts of it that are closed due to falling limestone.

Stop talking out of your ass and get over it man, this is a project that needs to take time so we don't have another highway built in this area. Anyone can say lets build a six lane 55mph road, that's easy. It takes time to plan out and build a 4 lane divided blvd. with bike lanes, wide sidewalks, ped friendly features, and educate people on why this should have a low speed limit.

Also keep in mind how long Rome was neglected and left to rot.

Rome is know for it's "history", ....let's help OKC keep moving forward for tomorrow.Isn't that what we did in the '70s, and have been trying to recover from ever since?

I'm going to violate my own post above, but you do realize you are arguing with yourself? No one is saying they don't want the Boulevard done. No one is saying we want to do nothing. You are the only one here saying that, and then you are arguing with us because you said it.

You did bring up an important point though... we've been overselling Rome for far too long. After all, they've only kept things as the status quo for far too long (they even spoke the language that gave us the phrase "status quo"!) The Monaco Empire, though... those thousands of years of greatness, splendor, building, science, architecture; that's what we should be emulating!

Well that's not exactly true. A lot of us don't want to see a Boulevard that is one continuous road from I-235 to I-40 and Penn. However, the extra money saved from not building the western to walker segment can be used to make the grid streets better.

Well that's not exactly true. A lot of us don't want to see a Boulevard that is one continuous road from I-235 to I-40 and Penn. However, the extra money saved from not building the western to walker segment can be used to make the grid streets better.

I should have said "done the right way."

I really want to know how much money the city could make if they sold all the land that is currently in the ROW?

Isn't that what we did in the '70s, and have been trying to recover from ever since?

....Guys, I definately do not want the "strip & wait" of the 70' - 92' program. I am 100% for the beautiful BLVD you have decribed ( Project 180 is a GREAT success!! ).

, but I do know this... The key factor for success in the MAPS 1 program was the "seamless implimentation of the projects". We need to be very cautious of "pushing things back to much". The more we push back in the front of this Program, the longer it takes for the other benefits of "economic development" to show up. That is my primary point.

....Guys, I definately do not want the "strip & wait" of the 70' - 92' program. I am 100% for the beautiful BLVD you have decribed ( Project 180 is a GREAT success!! ).

, but I do know this... The key factor for success in the MAPS 1 program was the "seamless implimentation of the projects". We need to be very cautious of "pushing things back to much". The more we push back in the front of this Program, the longer it takes for the other benefits of "economic development" to show up. That is my primary point.

Wow

....Guys, I definately do not want the "strip & wait" of the 70' - 92' program. I am 100% for the beautiful BLVD you have decribed ( Project 180 is a GREAT success!! ).

, but I do know this... The key factor for success in the MAPS 1 program was the "seamless implimentation of the projects". We need to be very cautious of "pushing things back to much". The more we push back in the front of this Program, the longer it takes for the other benefits of "economic development" to show up. That is my primary point.

Honest question here: How old are you OKVision?

Honest question here: How old are you OKVision?

Teo... Is that all you have? ....No other position, statement, ideas ? ... just that? Really? Dig deep and try to find an original opinion regarding the BLVD. ...come on, ..(crickets ).

Teo... Is that all you have? ....No other position, statement, ideas ? ... just that? Really? Dig deep and try to find an original opinion regarding the BLVD. ...come on, ..(crickets ).

Can't even answer a simple question. How about this, I'm 35. See how easy that was (crickets--with regard to age)...

Teo... Is that all you have? ....No other position, statement, ideas ? ... just that? Really? Dig deep and try to find an original opinion regarding the BLVD. ...come on, ..(crickets ).

You can find my original opinions back on like Page 23.

Teo... Is that all you have? ....No other position, statement, ideas ? ... just that? Really? Dig deep and try to find an original opinion regarding the BLVD. ...come on, ..(crickets ).

What exactly are your opinions other then we have to build "something great" as fast as possible?

....Guys, I definately do not want the "strip & wait" of the 70' - 92' program. I am 100% for the beautiful BLVD you have decribed ( Project 180 is a GREAT success!! ).

, but I do know this... The key factor for success in the MAPS 1 program was the "seamless implimentation of the projects". We need to be very cautious of "pushing things back to much". The more we push back in the front of this Program, the longer it takes for the other benefits of "economic development" to show up. That is my primary point.

Thunder nice to have you back! Lol

Can't even answer a simple question. How about this, I'm 35. See how easy that was (crickets--with regard to age)...Wow, I thought you were in your mid 20s, what is your secret lol ;P

"seamless implementation"? With MAPS 1? Um, no, it was not seamless. Time to brush up on some history. Actually, the schedule for MAPS 1 was pushed back repeatedly as it was revised again and again - often to its benefit. Let's take this revisionist version of MAPS history and show what would have happened (I was there):
- The ballpark is where Bass Pro sits.
- Parking, and no development in Lower Bricktown
- A canal that flows south of Reno Avenue with no buildings on either side.
OR
- A canal that had three segments so that the water taxis would not have been feasible
- A library where Devon Energy Center now stands
- Dams along the river with no locks for boats to pass through
- A river with far less trails and landscaping because the city would have gone too quickly to have gotten the federal enhancement grants

"seamless implementation"? With MAPS 1? Um, no, it was not seamless. Time to brush up on some history. Actually, the schedule for MAPS 1 was pushed back repeatedly as it was revised again and again - often to its benefit. Let's take this revisionist version of MAPS history and show what would have happened (I was there):
- The ballpark is where Bass Pro sits.
- Parking, and no development in Lower Bricktown
- A canal that flows south of Reno Avenue with no buildings on either side.
OR
- A canal that had three segments so that the water taxis would not have been feasible
- A library where Devon Energy Center now stands
- Dams along the river with no locks for boats to pass through
- A river with far less trails and landscaping because the city would have gone too quickly to have gotten the federal enhancement grants

... Like I said, Seamless. There has not been a large project in the history of Oklahoma, that was "100 % perfect". That is the Nature of projects.

The entire MAPS 1 was : Large projects making it through the design process / contracting process / construction / completion phase(s) and all with a great since of accomplishment & pride for OKC Metro.

....yeah, I like my word better.... Seamless.

What exactly are your opinions other then we have to build "something great" as fast as possible?

OK, ...here is an example ( in short w/o designs) of concepts:

First, Thank you to the Friends for a Better Blvd. YOU, GET IT! This is a MUST for OKC. This access point ( Blvd ) is the first taste of what the "vision" of any / all future development South of Reno will reflect. This BLVD MUST have the feel of ( Amazing in Environment ). All developers will < digest > the level of detail / design / vision of what our CORE TO SHORE will become through this Blvd. It is access, it is style, it is vision. This is NOT the time to go "cheap". This the time to SHOW OUR BEST. Project 180 hits the nail on the Head, and the BLVD should be / must be even higher in excellence.NOW, these developers can not make this acccessment until this "street" is in. This is the LINK ( KEY ) to their decisions. This is the "first domino" in this area of development and that is what will help move the "outside" investment / development community into decision mode. ( this is the build it and they will come senario ).

This decision is (Way above ODOT)...and the entire STATE is looking for our BEST.

Guys, I have always wanted a MUCH better BLVD, as you will find that I never want "CHEAP".

OK. But the phrase used was "seamless implementation."
Webster definition of "seamless": moving from one thing to another easily and without any interruptions or problems.
That's the exact opposite of what happened with implementation of MAPS 1. The implementation of MAPS 1 was not something that went from one item to the next easily. There were delays. There were revisions. There were interruptions. The city did NOT rush forward ... it was very deliberate and slow, sometimes frustratingly so.

Wow

Well, you left Larry speachless. You win...

OK. But the phrase used was "seamless implementation."
Webster definition of "seamless": moving from one thing to another easily and without any interruptions or problems.
That's the exact opposite of what happened with implementation of MAPS 1. The implementation of MAPS 1 was not something that went from one item to the next easily. There were delays. There were revisions. There were interruptions. The city did NOT rush forward ... it was very deliberate and slow, sometimes frustratingly so.

Steve, it's kinda like making sausage. You may not want to look at "How it is really made", but it tastes good in the gumbo. Again, no project is perfect from "concept to final".

I don't think "ageless" Vision knows who Steve is.

Ow.....head hurts.

Today I learned that seamless means the exact opposite of seamless. Oh, the internet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oeu0ntm2WPM

Ow.....head hurts.

Yeah Steve. That's why I put him on ignore. It's hard to reason with someone who says, "Who cares how much it costs? Build it for whatever, doesn't matter where the money (debt) comes from, but build it now and don't do any sort of research."

I don't think "ageless" Vision knows who Steve is.

... Timeless Vision.

...again, do any of you have any ( Ideas ) or just playground banter? Age is not that important, but Maturity is a huge plus in life. So, ...any ideas ( warren / plut /david / okok ) that are a "must have" for the BLVD?

Today I learned that seamless means the exact opposite of seamless. Oh, the internet.Well, the trick is, to seamlessly, make a seamless seam. Do that, and you sir, are in business!

... Timeless Vision.

...again, do any of you have any ( Ideas ) or just playground banter? Age is not that important, but Maturity is a huge plus in life. So, ...any ideas ( warren / plut /david / okok ) that are a "must have" for the BLVD?


Can we please back up? Let's start with your original premise, as I understand it. And if my understanding is wrong, then I apologize in advance. But is your premise that the boulevard needs to be built with no further delays, no further public input, and opened as fast as possible to get development started? Because that's where I am getting very confused on your communication ... as an aside, though, the only reason I am in this thread is I can't stay quiet when people try to rewrite the history of MAPS. The proposal that MAPS 1 implementation was "seamless" is simply not true, and it's a dangerous idea to promote especially when you have a lot of folks in their 20s who were not of age to fully understand what did and did not happen. Learning the wrong lessons from history can create disasters in the future.

Can we please back up? Let's start with your original premise, as I understand it. And if my understanding is wrong, then I apologize in advance. But is your premise that the boulevard needs to be built with no further delays, no further public input, and opened as fast as possible to get development started? Because that's where I am getting very confused on your communication ... as an aside, though, the only reason I am in this thread is I can't stay quiet when people try to rewrite the history of MAPS. The proposal that MAPS 1 implementation was "seamless" is simply not true, and it's a dangerous idea to promote especially when you have a lot of folks in their 20s who were not of age to fully understand what did and did not happen. Learning the wrong lessons from history can create disasters in the future.

MAPS history from most all the OKC residents / state of Oklahoma / and a lot of other US city officials agree that this was a (Tremendous / Great ) success. MAPS 1 was so successful, that other cities use this model to pull their cities into a position of "growth / develoment".

So yes, I will say that 98% of the people in OKC Metro will say it was outstanding / seamless. We voted. We collected. We designed. We implemented. We played a baseball game in Brictown Ballpark, YES, it was a success. ...the other 2% may have a different view because of the location to the situation (behind the closed door where the sausage is made) and they have a jilted or differing opinion. I'm part of the 98% !

Yes, I truly understand the "fog" of projects... That is typical. We can have an expedited project that is of High Design / High Value in a timely manner. This project is a statement of the other portions of the Central Park / Convention / Hotels / High End Retail / Diners etc.... This is the critical path that must be managed & pulled through. Big money waiting.

Yeah Steve. That's why I put him on ignore. It's hard to reason with someone who says, "Who cares how much it costs? Build it for whatever, doesn't matter where the money (debt) comes from, but build it now and don't do any sort of research."

I am part of that group that can look at two vehicle groups ( Yugo / Ford Pinto ) & ( Corvette / Mustang ) and quickly make up my mind. I don't have to wait 90 days / hire a consultant, and then they tell me that the Yugo / Pinto have some issues and that you may want to go w/ the Vette / Mustang. Really ???

Buying something because it is less expensive may be more COSTLY than the price. ...that may have went over a few heads on this board though.

MAPS history from most all the OKC residents / state of Oklahoma / and a lot of other US city officials agree that this was a (Tremendous / Great ) success. MAPS 1 was so successful, that other cities use this model to pull their cities into a position of "growth / develoment".

So yes, I will say that 98% of the people in OKC Metro will say it was outstanding / seamless. We voted. We collected. We designed. We implemented. We played a baseball game in Brictown Ballpark, YES, it was a success. ...the other 2% may have a different view because of the location to the situation (behind the closed door where the sausage is made) and they have a jilted or differing opinion. I'm part of the 98% !

Yes, I truly understand the "fog" of projects... That is typical. We can have an expedited project that is of High Design / High Value in a timely manner. This project is a statement of the other portions of the Central Park / Convention / Hotels / High End Retail / Diners etc.... This is the critical path that must be managed & pulled through. Big money waiting.

Not really sure what your point is, the MAPS I projects turned out great, but the implementation process was by no means seamless and was very similar to the MAPS III process we are experiencing today (Project changes, debate, revisions, budget shortfalls, etc). Steve, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm one of those in my mid-twenties and have a very blurred memory of what transpired during MAPS I, but do remember some of it and have read a decent amount about the process.
On Edit: I should've read the last page of the thread before posting...

Also, you realize that, in arguing with Steve, you are arguing with the guy that covered MAPS I for the Oklahoman during most of it's implementation, right?

I am part of that group that can look at two vehicle groups ( Yugo / Ford Pinto ) & ( Corvette / Mustang ) and quickly make up my mind. I don't have to wait 90 days / hire a consultant, and then they tell me that the Yugo / Pinto have some issues and that you may want to go w/ the Vette / Mustang. Really ???

Buying something because it is less expensive may be more COSTLY than the price. ...that may have went over a few heads on this board though.

I am going to go against my better judgement and respond to you directly since this post was directed at me.

I have no problem with people having vision. I have a problem with people not having a plan to carry out that vision.

There are a bunch of moving parts with the Boulevard that neither you or I have control over (i.e. COPTA, ODOT, Mayoral council, etc) and you are just wanting all them to come together and work to make it happen and it is not that simple. Go back and read the first 75 pages of this thread and you will see that there are sources of funding for this particular boulevard where certain things have to happen before it can be implemented. It is the same thing for all of the other projects you are so blindly saying, "MAKE IT HAPPEN NOW!!!!!!!!!!" There is an amount of due diligence that has to be done before these things can be implemented. Or, you can raise billions of dollars yourself and build a park or a convention center yourself, only having to answer to the design committee and that is about it. I can't remember the timing, but Mick Cornett set up a website asking if another MAPS was wanted by the people and 85% said yes. The MAPS 3 proposal was official about six months later and was voted on several months after that. It was over a year from asking if we want something to the actual vote of it. You want everything to be built today with no regards to how it is going to be funded and just going into debt to get it built big and quickly. Very few people on this forum and in real life agree with you.

MAPS history from most all the OKC residents / state of Oklahoma / and a lot of other US city officials agree that this was a (Tremendous / Great ) success. MAPS 1 was so successful, that other cities use this model to pull their cities into a position of "growth / develoment".

So yes, I will say that 98% of the people in OKC Metro will say it was outstanding / seamless. We voted. We collected. We designed. We implemented. We played a baseball game in Brictown Ballpark, YES, it was a success. ...the other 2% may have a different view because of the location to the situation (behind the closed door where the sausage is made) and they have a jilted or differing opinion. I'm part of the 98% !

Yes, I truly understand the "fog" of projects... That is typical. We can have an expedited project that is of High Design / High Value in a timely manner. This project is a statement of the other portions of the Central Park / Convention / Hotels / High End Retail / Diners etc.... This is the critical path that must be managed & pulled through. Big money waiting.


I am part of that group that can look at two vehicle groups ( Yugo / Ford Pinto ) & ( Corvette / Mustang ) and quickly make up my mind. I don't have to wait 90 days / hire a consultant, and then they tell me that the Yugo / Pinto have some issues and that you may want to go w/ the Vette / Mustang. Really ???

Buying something because it is less expensive may be more COSTLY than the price. ...that may have went over a few heads on this board though.

Please, buddy... stop while you're behind... I really don't think you quite understand who some of the other posters are and in spite of your obvious good intentions, your posts make you look extremely simple minded and immature...

You really seem to think that you're the smartest guy in the room and continually show a complete lack of respect for other posters here who are extremely knowledgeable and that you could learn a lot from...

Just a friendly word of advise but you should be doing a lot more reading and a lot less typing...

... Timeless Vision.

...again, do any of you have any ( Ideas ) or just playground banter? Age is not that important, but Maturity is a huge plus in life. So, ...any ideas ( warren / plut /david / okok ) that are a "must have" for the BLVD?

Sorry Vision, but you do know what playground banter is......lol

People on this board are not as stupid as you think...

Come back, krisb - all is forgiven.

Not really sure what your point is, the MAPS I projects turned out great, but the implementation process was by no means seamless and was very similar to the MAPS III process we are experiencing today (Project changes, debate, revisions, budget shortfalls, etc). Steve, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm one of those in my mid-twenties and have a very blurred memory of what transpired during MAPS I, but do remember some of it and have read a decent amount about the process.
On Edit: I should've read the last page of the thread before posting...

Also, you realize that, in arguing with Steve, you are arguing with the guy that covered MAPS I for the Oklahoman during most of it's implementation, right?

And I also wrote the history book; interviewed more than 100 people, spent seven years going through city/Urban Renewal/chamber archives. Vision, your enthusiasm is to be admired. But I'm not sure you fully understand how all this works.

... Timeless Vision.

...again, do any of you have any ( Ideas ) or just playground banter? Age is not that important, but Maturity is a huge plus in life. So, ...any ideas ( warren / plut /david / okok ) that are a "must have" for the BLVD?

Okay...how on earth is maturity even of importance when even you don't know what maturity stands for...unless of course maturity means the same thing as seamless!

The reason behind MAPS 1 being "seamless"...the "seamlessness" that other cities may use the MAPS model to improve their downtowns is the private and public development dollars that OKC has seen due to the popularity of MAPS. That's the "seamless" success of MAPS!

If you were of a certain age in life you'd have respect for others opinions. You wouldn't second guess our posts about you needing to go back and read 75 pages to understand what is happening. You're young. Probably 18 or 19, think the world is your oyster and can't nobody hold you down. Guess what? You got a lot to learn. Be humble...don't be a donkey.

And I also wrote the history book; interviewed more than 100 people, spent seven years going through city/Urban Renewal/chamber archives. Vision, your enthusiasm is to be admired. But I'm not sure you fully understand how all this works.

OK, STeve thank you for all your hard work & input.

Now, that has zero to do with me having a differenct POV. ...or perspective. ( as I said before, being "SO CLOSE", can make things seam to be more difficult, than they actually are.)

Steve, I have never written a story for any paper, that is not my 'background / or History" of success in that field.

But when it comes to large initiatives ( complex structures ), I can run w/ that (organization) and do it successfully. ...and do it w/ enthusiasm!

OK, STeve thank you for all your hard work & input.

Now, that has zero to do with me having a differenct POV. ...or perspective. ( as I said before, being "SO CLOSE", can make things seam to be more difficult, than they actually are.)

Steve, I have never written a story for any paper, that is not my 'background / or History" of success in that field.

But when it comes to large initiatives ( complex structures ), I can run w/ that (organization) and do it successfully. ...and do it w/ enthusiasm!

Well there you go... it might help if you would share with us some of your experience and accomplishments in public works projects or any "large initiatives" for that matter...

But when it comes to large initiatives ( complex structures ), I can run w/ that (organization) and do it successfully. ...and do it w/ enthusiasm!

What proof do you have? Steve has covered OKC since 1990 and has lived here for longer than I have been alive (I am 34). He has also written four books (OKC 2nd Time Around, Skirvin, Operation Scissortail and Bricktown) all having to do with downtown OKC. I think most people on this board would take his word over yours on anything having to do with DT OKC.

... Timeless Vision.

...again, do any of you have any ( Ideas ) or just playground banter? Age is not that important, but Maturity is a huge plus in life. So, ...any ideas ( warren / plut /david / okok ) that are a "must have" for the BLVD?

Ok, I'll play. We need to have bike lanes and wide sidewalks with a speed limit no higher than 25mph in the CBD and 40mph outside of it. I would like to see a large traffic circle at the Western/Classen/Boulevard intersection instead of any sort of bridge.

But, what do I know? I am just a college grad, working at a bank.

I am not a consultant that the city hires for hundreds of thousands of dollars who have been doing this for decades and have more projects under their belt than I can count.

Now, tell me OKVision4U, why do you think the city and ODOT are listening to consultants and not me?

Better question...how come the city is not listening to OKVision4U? That's right...because he does not know what he's talking about, he has no more experience with it than anyone else on here & if he does he won't reveal his experience so it doesn't really matter, lol.

... This the time to SHOW OUR BEST. Project 180 hits the nail on the Head, and the BLVD should be / must be even higher in excellence. ...


This surely is a ban-worthy offense.

Project 180 hits the thumb on the nail.

OK, I see where this is going now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAp0RvEVD9w

... Like I said, Seamless. There has not been a large project in the history of Oklahoma, that was "100 % perfect". That is the Nature of projects.

The entire MAPS 1 was : Large projects making it through the design process / contracting process / construction / completion phase(s) and all with a great since of accomplishment & pride for OKC Metro.

....yeah, I like my word better.... Seamless.

To quote the Princess Bride: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

OK, STeve thank you for all your hard work & input.

Now, that has zero to do with me having a differenct POV. ...or perspective. ( as I said before, being "SO CLOSE", can make things seam to be more difficult, than they actually are.)

Steve, I have never written a story for any paper, that is not my 'background / or History" of success in that field.

But when it comes to large initiatives ( complex structures ), I can run w/ that (organization) and do it successfully. ...and do it w/ enthusiasm!


Oh well, how do you teach a blind man what yellow is? Some people don't even know enough to know what they don't know.

I am going to go against my better judgement and respond to you directly since this post was directed at me.

I have no problem with people having vision. I have a problem with people not having a plan to carry out that vision.

There are a bunch of moving parts with the Boulevard that neither you or I have control over (i.e. COPTA, ODOT, Mayoral council, etc) and you are just wanting all them to come together and work to make it happen and it is not that simple. Go back and read the first 75 pages of this thread and you will see that there are sources of funding for this particular boulevard where certain things have to happen before it can be implemented. It is the same thing for all of the other projects you are so blindly saying, "MAKE IT HAPPEN NOW!!!!!!!!!!" There is an amount of due diligence that has to be done before these things can be implemented. Or, you can raise billions of dollars yourself and build a park or a convention center yourself, only having to answer to the design committee and that is about it. I can't remember the timing, but Mick Cornett set up a website asking if another MAPS was wanted by the people and 85% said yes. The MAPS 3 proposal was official about six months later and was voted on several months after that. It was over a year from asking if we want something to the actual vote of it. You want everything to be built today with no regards to how it is going to be funded and just going into debt to get it built big and quickly. Very few people on this forum and in real life agree with you.

Warren88 - This is the first time I have seen some "solid" input regarding this topic from you. I did not lay-out a finance plan ( only stated that I did not want CHEAP , cheap in value w/ poor design ).