Ok, its only a block futher south with two or three less lights and less traffic to contend with. Its a nice option if that bridge is going to be there anyway for I-40 access. Im sure boathouse district access was an afterthought when they design the that bridge.

At the time the configuration was chosen it becoming a district was not even an idea yet, it would have just been Regatta Park with only temporary structures to store boats in the park. The Chesapeake Boathouse planning might have been underway.

One of Pete's photos:
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chkarena1.JPG

I don't know if this had been discussed yet, but it seems to me that the city would be better off working on the center portion of the boulevard now, rather than waiting, especially for aesthetic looks when it comes to showing our city off on national TV. Once the old Crosstown is completely down and Shields is reopened, they could work on the boulevard from just west of Shields over to Walker or even Lee.

Is this in the works or are we going to have to deal with this unsightliness for a long time to come?

We have to keep in mind that the bridge demolition was scheduled to last until the end of the year so their somewhat ahead of schedule. This central section is still being planned and designed though, but it should be 'let' the first couple of months of the new year. Unfortunately its going to look unsightly for the entire season, but at least it will be under construction this spring. I guess construction looks better than just plain looking bad? lol

Yeah, I failed to mention that I did attend the public hearing presented by ODOT, so I do realize that there is still a lot of planning going into this portion, i.e. four lanes vs. 6 lanes, sidewalk widths, what to put in the median, etc. I just hope they figure it out soon and construct it and then tie the ends into it since it seems it may take longer with that, especially figuring what to do with the west portion. Of course, the construction of a passage under the BNSF viaduct will be quite interesting as well!

Haste makes waste. I want the boulevard to be well planned, so we are not either unhappy with it as soon as it is constructed or having to spend money to tear out portions that create issues for other forms of transit or utilities. To me, just having the old I-40 down is such a visual improvement that I'm willing to wait so that we make sure we're building the new boulevard correctly.

Removing those billboards would help.

OKCOMG | South Robinson Avenue (http://okcomg.tumblr.com/post/32718644979/south-robinson-avenue)

Im imagining they'll use the boulevard right-of-way for Thunder parking anyway.

Ackerman Blvd, maybe?

Ackerman Blvd, maybe?

I like Ackerman Circle better ;-)

I think we have this "what should the new boulevard be called" thingy going on in about ten different threads!

Anyway, I'll add my +1 for Ackerman Blvd.

The consultant has submitted 3 alternatives and the council has been briefed. The consultant is going to tweak the proposals and return for public input. From what I hear the consultants feel a roundabout won't work because of the volume of traffic but it hasn't been rejected all together.

The consultant has submitted 3 alternatives and the council has been briefed. The consultant is going to tweak the proposals and return for public input. From what I hear the consultants feel a roundabout won't work because of the volume of traffic but it hasn't been rejected all together.

Yeah!!!!!

so the consultants hired by folks who weren't crazy about a roundabout are themselves not crazy about a roundabout. Excuse me while I dig out a box of crayons and color myself a pastel shade of surprised.

Count me in as pleasantly surprised if that happens. There have better alternatives presented and as I have said many times previously some people are just enamoured about the idea and look of a roundabout whether it works or not.

there were more than 3 options created ..

Shocking isn't it. We can't have a roundabout because it will make cars slow down. That seems like sound reasoning (sarcasm).

a LOT more than 3 options were studied....the majority of which were eliminated quickly. I am looking forward to seeing and hearing about the options presented. I will be quite pleased as long as the darn street is kept on the ground. Removing the street in the sky was my primary goal - this is the only way I can see the Farmer's Market area having a legitimate chance to really come to life. The industrial / commercial businesses in that area make valuable contributions to the OKC economy (and no one wants to run them out), but I hope to see the FM area become another must see OKC destination and eventually be a link between downtown and the Stockyards.

100% agree capt Dave ..

Yeah!!!!!

I think you meant to put YAY!!!!!

I think you meant to put YAY!!!!!

I appreciate your imput but I know what I meant to say. LOL

Roundabout or no roundabout, any option that puts in the road at grade is a complete win in my book.

I appreciate your imput but I know what I meant to say. LOL

O.k. Ok okay okaaaay

just noticed that no one has indicated ... do any of the three alternatives presented have the road at grade?

From Ed Shadid on the Friends for a Better Boulevard page:


Please save the date: November 27th at 6pm will be the date and time of the public meeting to review the recommendation of the Stantec firm for the new Boulevard. Place to be determined.

just noticed that no one has indicated ... do any of the three alternatives presented have the road at grade?

If there isn't then the only thing they have been doing is coming up with different buffalo designs that will go on the side of the viaduct.

Here is what I'm hearing from someone in the know:


The city has narrowed down the options that Stantec submitted to 4.
The only difference between the 4 is at the intersection of Western and the boulevard:
1. Bridge over Western
2. Bridge over the boulevard with the boulevard being lowered 14 ft.
3. Conventional intersection
4. Roundabout
The following is included in each option: Western is closed between Sheridan and the boulevard, Classen is rerouted between Sheridan and Reno to where Western and Reno used to intersect, Exchange is closed between 3rd and Reno.
On the boulevard there are on/off ramps at Klein and an intersection at Reno.
No option has been selected yet and there is no guarantee that the state will build whichever option the city selects.

Are those in any particular order Pete?

Are those in any particular order Pete?

No.

I vote for the roundabout so people don't use this as a through street. I think this should be a low speed, extra pedestrian and bicycle friendly, and beautiful new road for Oklahoma City. (This coming from someone who like speed and cars) BTW.. So what if accumulates a little traffic. I think in this particular area it would be good to see some traffic. It could kinda be like the Hollywood BLVD. for OKC. Just my thoughts though. :)

Here is what I'm hearing from someone in the know:


The city has narrowed down the options that Stantec submitted to 4.
The only difference between the 4 is at the intersection of Western and the boulevard:
1. Bridge over Western
2. Bridge over the boulevard with the boulevard being lowered 14 ft.
3. Conventional intersection
4. Roundabout
The following is included in each option: Western is closed between Sheridan and the boulevard, Classen is rerouted between Sheridan and Reno to where Western and Reno used to intersect, Exchange is closed between 3rd and Reno.
On the boulevard there are on/off ramps at Klein and an intersection at Reno.
No option has been selected yet and there is no guarantee that the state will build whichever option the city selects.


So if im visualizing this correctly Classen becomes Western after passing Sheridan and their simplfying the interchange at Reno and Western by removing exchange? The only wild card being how Western/Classen crosses the boulevard.

I know a lot of people will be upset about Exchange being closed at Reno. Might as well have a conventional interchange at Western/Classen and the boulevard if they end up doing this.

I would almost put money on it ending up number one. Two is the practically the same effects as one but will likely cost more. Four seems like a very low percentage since ODOT and city engineers seemed pretty cold to the idea of a roundabout. Three maybe but I am guessing that with all the street closures in the area it would have had some lobbying against it.

They should just put the grid back in and call it a day.

Here is what I'm hearing from someone in the know:


The city has narrowed down the options that Stantec submitted to 4.
The only difference between the 4 is at the intersection of Western and the boulevard:
1. Bridge over Western
2. Bridge over the boulevard with the boulevard being lowered 14 ft.
3. Conventional intersection
4. Roundabout
The following is included in each option: Western is closed between Sheridan and the boulevard, Classen is rerouted between Sheridan and Reno to where Western and Reno used to intersect, Exchange is closed between 3rd and Reno.
On the boulevard there are on/off ramps at Klein and an intersection at Reno.
No option has been selected yet and there is no guarantee that the state will build whichever option the city selects.



This sounds like 1 option with 4 variations, rather than 4 different options.

I don't see the advantage of option 1 vs. 2. I wouldn't be surprised if option 2 was a no-go due to water table issues.

I'm a fan of the Western-to-Classen connection. How would that street intersect with the boulevard?

Exchange ending at 3rd doesn't bother me too much. I would hope there would be some special termination at the Farmer's Market.

EDIT: Unless someone beats me to it, I'll try to draw up what Pete posted.

If there isn't then the only thing they have been doing is coming up with different buffalo designs that will go on the side of the viaduct.

And what a bunch of politically motivated nostalgia the buffalo are. As if to please the human buffaloes among us. I've looked far and wide in this state and never seen a buffalo outside of a zoo... so what are they really meant to represent? Lack of progress?

I maintain there is no need for the diagonal connection between 3rd Street and California. What ever happened to Acham's Razor in street planning? Connect California to I40 in the west with conventional intersections at Classen and Western, connect 3rd Street with I40 in the east. Use the funds that would be wasted on bridges on making both of these streets pedestrian and bike friendly thereby providing even more options for getting in and out of downtown. There would be plenty of money available to get everything the city desires in the iconic boulevard section from the BNSF viaduct westward along 3rd.

I maintain there is no need for the diagonal connection between 3rd Street and California. What ever happened to Acham's Razor in street planning? Connect California to I40 in the west with conventional intersections at Classen and Western, connect 3rd Street with I40 in the east. Use the funds that would be wasted on bridges on making both of these streets pedestrian and bike friendly thereby providing even more options for getting in and out of downtown. There would be plenty of money available to get everything the city desires in the iconic boulevard section from the BNSF viaduct westward along 3rd.

Pretty much my preferred option, for the last coupe years.

Traffic engineers build complicated and inflexible road networks for the same reason beavers build dams. It is just what they do.

FSJIEGOdAXE

Here is what I'm hearing from someone in the know:


The city has narrowed down the options that Stantec submitted to 4.
The only difference between the 4 is at the intersection of Western and the boulevard:
1. Bridge over Western
2. Bridge over the boulevard with the boulevard being lowered 14 ft.
3. Conventional intersection
4. Roundabout
The following is included in each option: Western is closed between Sheridan and the boulevard, Classen is rerouted between Sheridan and Reno to where Western and Reno used to intersect, Exchange is closed between 3rd and Reno.
On the boulevard there are on/off ramps at Klein and an intersection at Reno.
No option has been selected yet and there is no guarantee that the state will build whichever option the city selects.


I wish "The City" would move past the paternal stage and into a more open design process that involved the public in design options, not choosing amongst a predefined set of options.

No option has been selected yet and there is no guarantee that the state will build whichever option the city selects.


This seems to be the most important issue to me, is there any reason to believe that the state will build the city selected option instead of going with their own elevated plan? Is there any legal ground work that could be done to force the state into using the city's plan?

This seems to be the most important issue to me, is there any reason to believe that the state will build the city selected option instead of going with their own elevated plan? Is there any legal ground work that could be done to force the state into using the city's plan?

I guess the City could refuse to take ownership of it leaving the state to maintain whatever it is they build. The last elevated roadway only cost $600 million to fix. Of course, those costs will be paid by people 20 years from now so who cares. Those people will probably suck anyhow.

If there's no grid option then this firm did a bad job looking at all the Friends for a Better Boulevard concepts. Unfortunately the early iteration of the roundabout solution drew all the attention and the grid solution came while everyone was up in arms over the roundabout.

Somewhat worried that political capital of FBB group has already been expended by forcing this consultant hire, and nothing will be possible after these results are available.

We really need to make sure the grid option gets talked about by council.

the grid was never going to be an option ...

Unfortunately I think you are correct Boulder. I wonder if it even received serious evaluation and where it landed in the results hierarchy.

If there's no grid option then this firm did a bad job looking at all the Friends for a Better Boulevard concepts. Unfortunately the early iteration of the roundabout solution drew all the attention and the grid solution came while everyone was up in arms over the roundabout.

Somewhat worried that political capital of FBB group has already been expended by forcing this consultant hire, and nothing will be possible after these results are available.

We really need to make sure the grid option gets talked about by council.

Even if the consultant considered it, it appears that the City hasn't "short listed" it, so to speak, amongst the available options. Serious blunder in my opinion.

Surprise; the least expensive, most flexible, and most used road network in the US didn't make the cut.

So is it just me, or does it seem like one could garner between the lines that the road will be me made at grade east of Western?

For what's worth... I have heard some really positive things. The process has actually worked about a well as its going to considering the politics (City Engineering/ODoT Industial Complex) involved. They settled on one recommendation with four variants. I've been told that it eliminates Western, merges Western into Classen, has a conventional intersection at the Boulevard, and a roundabout near the Farmer's Market.

Regarding the FBB political capital, I'd say it has been fully expended to the very end to get the process to actually occur. The Feds have forced ODoT to have a process, the City Council weighed on staff, and a mutually agreeable solution was developed among all parties. One that is not elevated. So we're apparently getting a restored grid, at-grade starting way out west at Douglas, a place-making roundabout at the Market area, and a ton of landscaping.

If that is indeed true, and this came from SW Ava, then I'd say that is will be an incredible victory compared to the original elevated design. It sounds as though it is a compromise all the way around. And that leftover pavement from Western will apparently be offered up for redevelopment supposedly. Its a sea of concrete down there.

Jeff, that doesn't sound to bad. Merging Western/Classen makes sense just for better linking the north and south halves of the city.

Seriously, as far as I'm concerned, if the road is at grade between Walker and Western, this was a win. Anything else is icing on the cake.

I heard during a lunch last week from someone that would know that 3 options will be presented at the next meeting and there are no traffic circles/roundabouts in any of the 3 plans.

Sorry if this is old news, haven't read this thread in a while

I don't knowif that's entirely the case...I don't think there will be ONE big roundabout, which may be what your source meant..

I heard during a lunch last week from someone that would know that 3 options will be presented at the next meeting and there are no traffic circles/roundabouts in any of the 3 plans.

Sorry if this is old news, haven't read this thread in a while

Don't think this is true

Don't think this is true

The part about the roundabout is true. Stantec tried a roundabout feature but concluded it wouldn't work.

Don't think this is true

came straight from an ODOT employee's mouth

The part about the roundabout is true. Stantec tried a roundabout feature but concluded it wouldn't work.

I don't want to get too excited yet, but, HIP HIP HOORAY!!!

the selected choices all have roundabouts in them from what i have been told .. just not directly on the blvd

The part about the roundabout is true. Stantec tried a roundabout feature but concluded it wouldn't work.

I wonder if that is because they are still trying to simulate it with 94,000 cars a day.

I wonder if that is because they are still trying to simulate it with 94,000 cars a day.

Ha ha - that was one of the most outlandish assumptions I saw when I first became involved in the FBB. It was as if someone "accidentally" added a zero to the end of more realistic peak hourly volume estimates. I think that fallacy was effectively debunked.

If they are still using 94,000 cars then they missed the entire objective of this effort. We don't want 94,000 cars a day through this part of town. There is a brand new 10 lane interstate for that just a few blocks away.