that is not a good intersection for a roundabout .. the street car will pass through it (twice) also the CC hotel will most likely not be on the south side of the blvd

I see the streetcars and rails depicted in his concept.Have to look closely. If the turning radius is broad enough, it could work. Pretty cool!

built a traffic circle and put a fountain in the center but constant winds in the area blew the spray onto the traffic circle, which caused the road to be constantly wet. This in turn led to a lot of accidents and they finally had to turn the fountain off.

The Bricktown Centennial fountain we worked on has an anemometer with automatic height adjustment using variable speed drives. Works pretty good when it was adjusted right.

I see the streetcars and rails depicted in his concept.Have to look closely. If the turning radius is broad enough, it could work. Pretty cool!

Nm..........

this is amazing and would be a dream come true if it were to work out like this

If everything in government worked as it should, we wouldn't be having to fight this battle at all.


Well funding for this project is undoubtedly, directly, controlled by ODOT, and in my experience money talks and you know the rest.

Bottom line: The City Council is going to have to grow a pair and reject this design or ODOT will move forward with it. It's pretty cut and dried.

Cuatrode, your design is breathtaking. Well done!

The Bricktown Centennial fountain we worked on has an anemometer with automatic height adjustment using variable speed drives. Works pretty good when it was adjusted right.

Thanks - that answered my concern perfectly.

Is this the official rendering? and when does it all start to happen, I know they have to get permits and it wont be for a while but how long?

Is this the official rendering? and when does it all start to happen, I know they have to get permits and it wont be for a while but how long?

Lol. No. One of our mutual posters is being imaginative. This is not the work of ODOT.

Stunning renderings of what could be in our city. Very well done CuatrodeMayo.

Lol. No. One of our mutual posters is being imaginative. This is not the work of ODOT.
Well dangit...I loved this concept!!

If the convention center will be west of the arena where people currently park for Thunder games, where are they going to park now?

It's a gorgeous rendering except for the part that everyone knows I don't like. LOL

If the convention center will be west of the arena where people currently park for Thunder games, where are they going to park now?

Still fixated with parking I see. Take a cab.

Still fixated with parking I see. Take a cab.

Lol just a thought

If the convention center will be west of the arena where people currently park for Thunder games, where are they going to park now?

Well, here's an idea: If you see a good spot along the Boulevard for a parking lot, let us know. I could use a good chuckle..

Maybe the CC hotel should be at that location. Would free up more room at the site stricly for the CC, maybe keep them from going underground.

some of those that are planing the CC thing the the hotel has to be physically attached to the CC, and not just by a ramp

some of those that are planing the CC thing the the hotel has to be physically attached to the CC, and not just by a ramp

Then they might want to start thinkiing about a bigger piece of land.

If the convention center will be west of the arena where people currently park for Thunder games, where are they going to park now?

In one of the many, unused spots in Bricktown and Downtown, and walk a a few more blocks.

some of those that are planing the CC thing the the hotel has to be physically attached to the CC, and not just by a ramp
That is what the ULI folks stated


Then they might want to start thinkiing about a bigger piece of land.
Or build the C.C. hotel on top of the C.C...didn't you suggest this in another thread a while back?

Street Fight
Opposition to initial plans for the downtown boulevard call a bridge counterproductive.

http://okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-15881-street-fight.html

Kind of ironic, here a few years back, people were fighting to 'keep' the Walnut Ave bridge, and the city wanted it at grade. Now the people want to keep the road at grade and the city wants to build a bridge.

Yeah, but there wasn't one person that wanted to keep the old Crosstown for historic preservation.

Gazette article pretty much sucked.

Gazette article pretty much sucked.

"Wenger said the west end of the boulevard will remain slightly elevated."

^^^This is especially ghetto.

So 7/8ths of the new boulevard are going to be 100% new and then that last little leg west of Western is going to remain elevated? It's SOOOOOO butt ugly. Those crappy looking steel beams that look like they're falling apart like the other actual parts of the old Crosstown. SMH...I understand that it would be hard to get to ground level before Pennsylvania but it would be nice, that beyond that, if they blocked off Virginia, Kentucky, and Indiana; have an intersection with Blackwelder; and block off all access ramps before Western Avenue.

I'm sorry, but it's otherwise going to look stupid.

Wenger does come a across like a tool in this article -- a regular Jim Couch Jr.

"Wenger said the west end of the boulevard will remain slightly elevated."

^^^This is especially ghetto.

So 7/8ths of the new boulevard are going to be 100% new and then that last little leg west of Western is going to remain elevated? It's SOOOOOO butt ugly. Those crappy looking steel beams that look like they're falling apart like the other actual parts of the old Crosstown. SMH...I understand that it would be hard to get to ground level before Pennsylvania but it would be nice, that beyond that, if they blocked off Virginia, Kentucky, and Indiana; have an intersection with Blackwelder; and block off all access ramps before Western Avenue.

I'm sorry, but it's otherwise going to look stupid.

I cannot believe these idiots ever thought this was a good idea, even pre-MAPS I.

From the Gazette article:

At any rate, he said, the project is ultimately ODOT’s. Wenger said there has never been a suggestion by ODOT that the city take the lead to lay out what should go in the area.

Does Mr. Wenger really believe the male bovine excrement he is spewing? In that same section of the article, ODOT Chief Engineer Gary Evans:

Ultimately, it would be the city’s call on what to place in that area, Evans said.

Then there was this from Steve's blog (7/16/12)
http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/07/16/more-talk-about-the-oklahoma-city-boulevard/

“Our goal is to complete this project by the end of 2014. You have to hit certain mile stones to make that happen, and we’ve been in talks with the city to make that happen. There should be no surprise we are working expeditiously to make these connect complete to downtown. We’ve been at this quite a long time. We’re moving forward because no one has told us to stop. And why would we stop?” - Oklahoma Department of Transportation Director Gary Ridley

And ODOT said quite a while back (9/4/10) that they wouldn't build something the City didn't want (alluded to in the Oklahoman ad for Steve's article "The Downtown Boulevard...the City may NOT WANT!".

In Steve's blog repost "FYI to Eric Wenger" (6/28/12)
http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/06/28/fyi-to-eric-wenger/

“We’re not going to build something the city doesn’t want,” Ridley said ,,, “When we build the boulevard, we will work with the city to build something they can use,” Ridley said. “And we will design something they will want — within reason. Obviously all the extra amenities (landscaped medians, lighting, sidewalks and signage) are a separate issue.” Cornett noted city voters already approved bond funding for such improvements, key to making the boulevard a gateway to downtown. ... “Postcards of the future will be the park and the boulevard,” Cornett said. “It needs to be a place and not just a street where we see how fast we can get cars around.”

That reminder was almost a month ago, so where is Mr. Wenger getting this stuff? I believe Steve stated that Mr. Wenger and City Manager Jim Couch have been the ones in discussions with ODOT about this...why haven't they told ODOT to STOP?

Supposedly we have a City Council that determines policy and it is up to the City Manager and those under him to implement said policy. Can only presume that the Couch & Wenger have not been given clear direction by the Council. Why hasn't the Council taken action and directed them to tell ODOT to STOP?

"Wenger said the west end of the boulevard will remain slightly elevated."

When he says things it makes it sound even worse, like it will be elevated enough that you will not be interacting with other streets but low enough that nothing could go under, thus serving neither purpose.

From the Gazette article:


Does Mr. Wenger really believe the male bovine excrement he is spewing? In that same section of the article, ODOT Chief Engineer Gary Evans:


Then there was this from Steve's blog (7/16/12)
http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/07/16/more-talk-about-the-oklahoma-city-boulevard/


And ODOT said quite a while back (9/4/10) that they wouldn't build something the City didn't want (alluded to in the Oklahoman ad for Steve's article "The Downtown Boulevard...the City may NOT WANT!".

In Steve's blog repost "FYI to Eric Wenger" (6/28/12)
http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/06/28/fyi-to-eric-wenger/


That reminder was almost a month ago, so where is Mr. Wenger getting this stuff? I believe Steve stated that Mr. Wenger and City Manager Jim Couch have been the ones in discussions with ODOT about this...why haven't they told ODOT to STOP?

Supposedly we have a City Council that determines policy and it is up to the City Manager and those under him to implement said policy. Can only presume that the Couch & Wenger have not been given clear direction by the Council. Why hasn't the Council taken action and directed them to tell ODOT to STOP?

You know, I like Mayor Cornett, but this quote should be studied:

“Postcards of the future will be the park and the boulevard,” Cornett said. “It needs to be a place and not just a street where we see how fast we can get cars around.”

Think about what he is saying, what he is suggesting, and what it implies. It paints a picture of something wonderful, fabulous. A real, living, breathing, memorable gateway to our city.

Then think about this abortion that Gary Ridley and ODOT have proposed: an extended insterstate exit, with elevated, earthen road cutting off our natural western gateway to downtown OKC, the Classen Blvd. / Western Corridor.

In my mind, as an active voter, the Mayor needs to follow through on this big time, to ensure it does not destroy the investment we've made collectively in our downtown, or his legacy will be crap.

There will be no postcards for sale of this disastrous ODOT design. It's up to the Mayor and Council to avert this tragedy.

From the Gazette article:


Does Mr. Wenger really believe the male bovine excrement he is spewing? In that same section of the article, ODOT Chief Engineer Gary Evans:


Then there was this from Steve's blog (7/16/12)
http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/07/16/more-talk-about-the-oklahoma-city-boulevard/


And ODOT said quite a while back (9/4/10) that they wouldn't build something the City didn't want (alluded to in the Oklahoman ad for Steve's article "The Downtown Boulevard...the City may NOT WANT!".

In Steve's blog repost "FYI to Eric Wenger" (6/28/12)
http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/06/28/fyi-to-eric-wenger/


That reminder was almost a month ago, so where is Mr. Wenger getting this stuff? I believe Steve stated that Mr. Wenger and City Manager Jim Couch have been the ones in discussions with ODOT about this...why haven't they told ODOT to STOP?

Supposedly we have a City Council that determines policy and it is up to the City Manager and those under him to implement said policy. Can only presume that the Couch & Wenger have not been given clear direction by the Council. Why hasn't the Council taken action and directed them to tell ODOT to STOP?

And to your point: I will be watching Meg Salyer, Pete White, Greenwell, Ryan, Marrs, and others. If they don't jump up ODOT's ass and tell them to stop they are going to face a powerful, citizen-driven campaign to oust them from Council.

Pete White will. I wouldn't hold your breath on the others.

You know, I like Mayor Cornett, but this quote should be studied:

“Postcards of the future will be the park and the boulevard,” Cornett said. “It needs to be a place and not just a street where we see how fast we can get cars around.”

Think about what he is saying, what he is suggesting, and what it implies. It paints a picture of something wonderful, fabulous. A real, living, breathing, memorable gateway to our city.

Then think about this abortion that Gary Ridley and ODOT have proposed: an extended insterstate exit, with elevated, earthen road cutting off our natural western gateway to downtown OKC, the Classen Blvd. / Western Corridor.

in my mind, as an active voter, the Mayor needs to follow through on this big time, to ensure it does not destroy the investment we've made collectively in our downtown, or his legacy will be crap.

There will be no postcards for sale of this disastrous ODOT design. It's up to the Mayor and Council to avert this tragedy.

I think we should do postcards of ODOT's legacy in downtown.

http://www.okhighways.com/041103/i235exit1d.JPG
Come visit wonderful OKC! We have a highway!! lol

Pete White will. I wouldn't hold your breath on the others.

From what I've heard, Pete White will not be at Tuesday's meeting, when ODOT will be presenting this atrocity.

What an amazing -- and pertinent -- story from NPR. This should be a must read for the city council, city staff, ODOT, and all of the stakeholders involved with the boulevard project. I have some takeaways to share, but would rather have your input.

A City Faces Its 'Berlin Wall': An Interstate Highway
by ZACK SEWARD, WXXI


A sign for Interstate 81 sits under an overpass in Syracuse, N.Y. City officials and residents are debating what to do about an aging stretch of the highway that cuts through the city.

Interstate 81 runs through the heart of Syracuse, N.Y., where a 1.4-mile-long elevated stretch of the highway is known locally as "the viaduct." Like many road projects built in the middle of the last century, I-81 is bumping up against the end of its life span. While officials say it's still safe to drive on, the highway is crumbling in parts.

Now, the region is starting to think about what Syracuse might look like without the viaduct, which both speeds traffic through the city and divides the community along economic and racial lines. If the viaduct is torn down, Syracuse would join San Francisco and Milwaukee, where the removal of urban highways over the past two decades has spurred development. Still, it's early in the process.

Syracuse's 'Berlin Wall'

Read More

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/24/155917247/a-city-faces-its-berlin-wall-an-interstate-highway?sc=17&f=2

As much as I hope something nice happens, folks ought not blame the mayor much. He's a politico and he said what he meant.

“Postcards of the future will be the park AND the boulevard,” Cornett said. “It needs to be A place and not just a street where we see how fast we can get cars around.” (emphasis added)

I imagine the blvd portion which abuts the park will be rather postcard worthy, thus fulfilling the politico prophecy quite nicely.

I'll leave it to others to ponder if folk might sometimes read a tad too much, or even way too much, into what a politico has actually said on a subject. I'll also leave it to others to ponder if, because of overly optimistic inferences being drawn, politico words are at times selected by design and are rarely off the cuff comments.

I have my own opinions, but then, not my city, not my politico. In general terms though, when it comes to most any politico, when I view or hear comments and filter them through the strictest, most limited filter that might be available, I tend to be less disappointed in what ultimately happens.

Again, best of luck in the effort to effect change.

Wow. Read Steve's blog. Is ODOT pulling a fast one on the Public Meeting? Are they racing against the clock to get the bids on the project let before the public has a chance to be heard?

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/07/25/a-lack-of-communication/

What would it take for our Governor to reign in her ODOT head? Would a call from the Republican mayor of the capitol city to the Republican governor have any impact? Would the governor respond to a public outcry of concerned citizens? Do we need to expand our letter writing campaign to include Governor Fallin?

What would it take for our Governor to reign in her ODOT head? Would a call from the Republican mayor of the capitol city to the Republican governor have any impact? Would the governor respond to a public outcry of concerned citizens? Do we need to expand our letter writing campaign to include Governor Fallin?

Mary Fallin doesn't give a crap what OKC's inner-city citizens think. She's all about the 'burbs and the boonies. And I'm doubting Mick will make the call. It's up to the Feds and the City Council, because it seems ODOT is trying to race the clock. Steve's blog today is alarming.

One other constituency that seems absent in this discussion is the Chamber. Surely they understand the economic development / image / quality of life issues involved with this project. Where does Roy Williams fit into this discussion? The Chamber would be a force to get Mary Fallin's attention, in my opinion. Why are they standing on the sidelines?

From the sounds of things it was great effort attempted too late. We should have had a much earlier start date to accomplish anything. ODOT is like a black widow--they build crappy webs, lol.

From the sounds of things it was great effort attempted too late. We should have had a much earlier start date to accomplish anything. ODOT is like a black widow--they build crappy webs, lol.

It's NOT too late. That's what ODOT wants people to think. Don't fall for it.

As much as I hope something nice happens, folks ought not blame the mayor much. He's a politico and he said what he meant.

“Postcards of the future will be the park AND the boulevard,” Cornett said. “It needs to be A place and not just a street where we see how fast we can get cars around.” (emphasis added)

I imagine the blvd portion which abuts the park will be rather postcard worthy, thus fulfilling the politico prophecy quite nicely.

I'll leave it to others to ponder if folk might sometimes read a tad too much, or even way too much, into what a politico has actually said on a subject. I'll also leave it to others to ponder if, because of overly optimistic inferences being drawn, politico words are at times selected by design and are rarely off the cuff comments.

I have my own opinions, but then, not my city, not my politico. In general terms though, when it comes to most any politico, when I view or hear comments and filter them through the strictest, most limited filter that might be available, I tend to be less disappointed in what ultimately happens.

Again, best of luck in the effort to effect change.

The sad truth is that city officials don't really care what happens west of Walker. Its all about Maps 3 and the Core to Shore priority region.

1927

Mary Fallin doesn't give a crap what OKC's inner-city citizens think. She's all about the 'burbs and the boonies. And I'm doubting Mick will make the call. It's up to the Feds and the City Council, because it seems ODOT is trying to race the clock. Steve's blog today is alarming.

One other constituency that seems absent in this discussion is the Chamber. Surely they understand the economic development / image / quality of life issues involved with this project. Where does Roy Williams fit into this discussion? The Chamber would be a force to get Mary Fallin's attention, in my opinion. Why are they standing on the sidelines?

I hope you are wrong about Governor Fallin, but fear you may be at least partially correct. I would like to see Mayor Cornett (whom I respect and think has done a very good job) get out front on this issue. I think he could have some influence with Governor Fallin. If nothing else, I would like to hear him reiterate his statements about an iconic boulevard thereby putting Gary Ridley on the spot to explain his statement about not building something the city doesn't want.

Would the Chamber be responsive to a citizen group? Would it not be better to have a coalition of business owners contact the Chamber with their concerns?

I hope you are wrong about Governor Fallin, but fear you may be at least partially correct. I would like to see Mayor Cornett (whom I respect and think has done a very good job) get out front on this issue. I think he could have some influence with Governor Fallin. If nothing else, I would like to hear him reiterate his statements about an iconic boulevard thereby putting Gary Ridley on the spot to explain his statement about not building something the city doesn't want.

Would the Chamber be responsive to a citizen group? Would it not be better to have a coalition of business owners contact the Chamber with their concerns?

First things first would be the City Council to officially protest the design. As far as I can tell its just a few council members speaking out against the design(jawboning).

The City Councils proactiveness has been nonexistant.

Would it not be better to have a coalition of business owners contact the Chamber with their concerns?

Yes, you're right, particularly if they are dues-paying Chamber members.

It's NOT too late. That's what ODOT wants people to think. Don't fall for it.

Referring to your post #586...

The sad truth is that city officials don't really care what happens west of Walker. Its all about Maps 3 and the Core to Shore priority region.

1927

The west side is over half the develop able land of C2S, which would practically be cut off from this

Ok the Governor's email is governor AT oklaosf.state.ok.us Please be diplomatic when emailing her. I asked her to remind Gary Ridley that he is a public employee and simply avoiding public input isn't acceptable. Ridley was appointed by Brad Henry, so if anyone has his email, you could post that if you think he would be more sympathetic.

The west side is over half the develop able land of C2S, which would practically be cut off from this

Half of the "planned" area (not really planned when an important detail is left to ODOT) . Most of the "priority" area would be unaffected.

Its the project 180 plan: Only finish 50 percent. Lol

The sad truth is that city officials don't really care what happens west of Walker. Its all about Maps 3 and the Core to Shore priority region.

1927

Looking at that Core to Shore map again it appears the city had an idea what ODOT was planning to do with the route back in 2007. They drew in where the intersections on the boulevard were going to go.

From what I've heard, Pete White will not be at Tuesday's meeting, when ODOT will be presenting this atrocity.

Well that would be a shock to me. I know I will be there. Who else will be there?

I'm still disturbed by Steve's blog today. Anyone else read it?

Looking at that Core to Shore map again it appears the city had an idea what ODOT was planning to do with the route back in 2007. They drew in where the intersections on the boulevard were going to go.

Guys, where did this map come from? Are you not seeing what I'm seeing? It shows an "at grade boulevard" through Western Avenue. Forgive me if this has already been discussed. I don't have time to visit OKC Talk daily anymore....

I'm still disturbed by Steve's blog today. Anyone else read it?

About ODOT letting the contract from Penn to Western in August? There was always little to no chance that could actually be stopped. There is somewhat more of a chance to do something about the elevated bridge from Western to just short of Walker. So far there is no additional lettings scheduled through October.

Western to Penn plan sheets: http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2012/plans1208/260_1608_OKCY-XTWN(070)_1742880/A%20FULL%20FILE.pdf
To sum up: removal of concrete barrier and roadway along median, reduce roadway to 4 lanes(2 lanes each direction), plant sod in center of median, "rehabilitate" Penn, Virginia, Indiana, Blackwelder, and Sheridan off-ramp bridges, repave roadway with asphalt, new lighting, and reduce speed to 45mph.

As for Cornett, Fallin, the Chamber, etc.....what makes anyone here think they don't support the ODOT plan? Is there something on record that says they don't? I mention this only because many of the same interests as those with Neil McCaleb, and the "Concrete Mafia," etc. are all intertwined. And sometimes, silence speaks louder than words. Continued silence from some of these people gives you your answer as to why they're not getting involved. Money talks. Power & influence follows the money and vice versa.

Thank God we have Steve Lackmeyer - and OKCTalk.

Guys, where did this map come from? Are you not seeing what I'm seeing? It shows an "at grade boulevard" through Western Avenue. Forgive me if this has already been discussed. I don't have time to visit OKC Talk daily anymore....

The city's website. My interpretation of the map is the "at grade boulevard" is directly below the word "New At Grade boulevard". If you look closely the blue line between Western and Walker has a black line running down the middle of it(Depicting a bridge with a barrier wall or two separated bridges built side by side?). Also, no intersections between Western and Walker are drawn in.(Because they didn't envision there being intersections there)

Lack of communication indeed. City officials certainly didn't have any imaginative ideas on what to do with this area. Their crazy if they thought ODOT was going to come up with a imaginative idea on their own. A dialog with the public should have been opened a long time ago.

As for Cornett, Fallin, the Chamber, etc.....what makes anyone here think they don't support the ODOT plan? Is there something on record that says they don't? I mention this only because many of the same interests as those with Neil McCaleb, and the "Concrete Mafia," etc. are all intertwined. And sometimes, silence speaks louder than words. Continued silence from some of these people gives you your answer as to why they're not getting involved. Money talks. Power & influence follows the money and vice versa.

Thank God we have Steve Lackmeyer - and OKCTalk.

Yeah, I think their just bidding their time until they can say "Oh well, its the evil ODOT's fault" and why would ODOT care, they have nothing to lose. The city planners and the Core to Shore advisory groups weren't able to put two to two together? Right...............

The only way this fight has a chance of being won is to call out the city officials.They do have something to lose. That is if our fellow citizens actually care what happens with the boulevard.

This thread is at least 4 years too late if you actually wanted a major change in design.

About ODOT letting the contract from Penn to Western in August? There was always little to no chance that could actually be stopped. There is somewhat more of a chance to do something about the elevated bridge from Western to just short of Walker. So far there is no additional lettings scheduled through October.

Western to Penn plan sheets: http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2012/plans1208/260_1608_OKCY-XTWN(070)_1742880/A%20FULL%20FILE.pdf
To sum up: removal of concrete barrier and roadway along median, reduce roadway to 4 lanes(2 lanes each direction), plant sod in center of median, "rehabilitate" Penn, Virginia, Indiana, Blackwelder, and Sheridan off-ramp bridges, repave roadway with asphalt, new lighting, and reduce speed to 45mph.

My eyes just popped out of their sockets. They're letting contracts all the way up to Western Avenue now??

The only way this fight has a chance of being won is to call out the city officials.They do have something to lose. That is if our fellow citizens actually care what happens with the boulevard.

For those of you who are passionate about this being done right, and believe that City Council would/could influence ODOT (and I agree that they can), D-Day is this coming Tuesday, July 31st, at City Hall- 8:30 AM.

PLEASE ATTEND AND LET THEM KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS PLAN