It never crossed my mind that he did it himself. When I said inside job I wasn't serious - just saying it would be the only way anyone would know that the security was off. Calm yourself. Like most people, I don't give a flip about his sexual orientation. I am so sorry so many other people are absolutely hysterical about it. OMG!! I personally find it creepy that there is such a fixation. Obviously, it wasn't so big a barrier in Oklahoma that he couldn't get elected.

Wow really? The district he represents is the inner north, which is half and half wealthy educated voters and numerous minority groups. His district is comprised of people like soonerguru, BDP, and I...yep a scary place indeed.

Some folks vote for/against others due to their sexual orientation, or their gender, or the color of their skin or a myriad other reasons.

That, unfortunately is why we have the government we do. People get fixated on one issue, or what party a person is, rather than the whole package. The Oklahoma issue seems to be abortion. In certain districts, I think (if you could find one) you could run a pro-life gay-Muslim-Republican-porn star against a pro-choice straight-Episcopalian-Democrat-veteran, and the pro-life guy would win.

I am curious to see how Mitt Romney's nomination will effect voter turnout among the Baptist majority in the state, or if it will improve Mormon/Protestant relations, or cut down on the "Mormonism is a cult" sermons that I have heard a few of over the years. However, I'm sure the hatred of President Obama will outweigh the hatred of Mormons...

That, unfortunately is why we have the government we do. People get fixated on one issue, or what party a person is, rather than the whole package. The Oklahoma issue seems to be abortion. In certain districts, I think (if you could find one) you could run a pro-life gay-Muslim-Republican-porn star against a pro-choice straight-Episcopalian-Democrat-veteran, and the pro-life guy would win.



What I find interesting, in the context of the current situation, are the ones who are both pro gay and adamant that this situation be viewed as a "gay issue," no matter whether there is evidence to support it or not. It seems to me to be political suicide to do the work for the gay bashers who can't seem to see past their own fixations and no matter what a gay person does, all they see is GAY. Most straight people, even the ones who are supportive and tolerant of their gay brethren, are put off by TMI about their candidates' sexual proclivities. For the married ones, at least, we don't want them hitting the bars, striding around naked beaches, making out in public or otherwise going out of their way to make their sexuality the first thing people think of when they see them. It's icky. We are fine with them having a mate but the sexual aspect of the mate is not something we want to hear about. Kind of like with your parents - you know they have (or at least had) sex, but we don't really want to hear them gush over the details. And that goes for Great Uncle Homer, too. Ugh. I refuse to bow to the hysterical cries that simply because this man is gay I should be up in arms on such an historic achievement and assume that his flag was burned as a result. I find that to be extremely insulting towards him. When there is evidence to show it was gay bashing, by all means. But he is more than his sexual orientation and notwithstanding the importance of that to many people, he is more than "just" gay. Treating as if he is just a token is condescending. He is a veteran who had his flag burned in his yard on Memorial Day Weekend. That is the story, folks.

I also think it is a terrible strategy to try to insist people vote for certain people "because" someone is gay, female, black, hispanic, etc. The same logic would have people in the majority voting on that basis. Think it through.


Wow really? The district he represents is the inner north, which is half and half wealthy educated voters and numerous minority groups. His district is comprised of people like soonerguru, BDP, and I...yep a scary place indeed.

Spartan, scary? Really? What in the world are you talking about?

Penny we get it. We don't agree with you. Who knows why the Senator was selected for a flag burning? It's not a stretch to think he may have been targeted. You are like talking to a wall as you seem inflexible in your views once you make up your mind. I'm sorry you find me to be a "yahoo," but I'm very grateful you're not my mom or spouse.

Penny we get it. We don't agree with you. Who knows why the Senator was selected for a flag burning? It's not a stretch to think he may have been targeted. You are like talking to a wall as you seem inflexible in your views once you make up your mind. I'm sorry you find me to be a "yahoo," but I'm very grateful you're not my mom or spouse.

Well, it is cause for speculation, certainly, but no one argued with the comment that "It's not a stretch to think he may have been targeted." I think where things went south in a hurry was your original comment:


What a scary thing to occur in Mesta Park, in all likelihood targeting Al for being gay

followed by


Here's the link, although NewsOK has only been working sporadically tonight. For some reason, comments on the article have been disabled. Why? Is it because it will reveal Oklahoman readers as gay-bashing nitwits?

Way to come out swinging. And you didn't think that would be offensive? Did you have evidence that it was a gay bashing flag burning? No. Did you have evidence that the comments were disabled to keep Oklahomans from being revealed as gay-bashing nitwits? No. Did that stop you from being as offensive as possible towards people who expressed genuine concern that he had his flag burned in his yard? No. It was all about the gay issue to you. Anyone who didn't get on the gay bandwagon was suspect. And you think that is going to be make people more gay friendly? Come on. Take responsibility for your own comments.

I think most of the board that have commented thinks your original jabs were an overreach based on what we knew at the time/know now. If you hadn't sounded so confident that it MUST be because he was gay, followed by the sanctimoneous comments about Oklahomans as gay-bashing nitwits, I doubt anyone would have remarked on it. Alternatively, I think it was a bit offensive to some of us that you skipped the ramifications of a veteran's flag being burned in his yard on Memorial Day weekend and rushed headlong into the horrors of gay prosecution. We had evidence about the veteran's flag but nothing about gay bashing. You want the world to share your values but showed next to no consideration for the values of other people (including the victim in this case, I might add). If you want the world to have respect for your values, you might start with leading by example.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

Well, it is cause for speculation, certainly, but no one argued with the comment that "It's not a stretch to think he may have been targeted." I think where things went south in a hurry was your original comment:



followed by



Way to come out swinging. And you didn't think that would be offensive? Did you have evidence that it was a gay bashing flag burning? No. Did you have evidence that the comments were disabled to keep Oklahomans from being revealed as gay-bashing nitwits? No. Did that stop you from being as offensive as possible towards people who expressed genuine concern that he had his flag burned in his yard? No. It was all about the gay issue to you. Anyone who didn't get on the gay bandwagon was suspect. And you think that is going to be make people more gay friendly? Come on. Take responsibility for your own comments.

I think most of the board that have commented thinks your original jabs were an overreach based on what we knew at the time/know now. If you hadn't sounded so confident that it MUST be because he was gay, followed by the sanctimoneous comments about Oklahomans as gay-bashing nitwits, I doubt anyone would have remarked on it. Alternatively, I think it was a bit offensive to some of us that you skipped the ramifications of a veteran's flag being burned in his yard on Memorial Day weekend and rushed headlong into the horrors of gay prosecution. We had evidence about the veteran's flag but nothing about gay bashing. You want the world to share your values but showed next to no consideration for the values of other people (including the victim in this case, I might add). If you want the world to have respect for your values, you might start with leading by example.

I think you mean persecution.

I am frankly impressed at the level of your objection to gay issues being openly debated within a public discourse. Particularly for someone who claims to have relocated to OKC from the East Coast. My perspective, being that of a young straight guy born and raised in the south who has since taken up residence in a few very liberal places, is that if I had gone to Canada, Europe, or the west/east coasts with this kind of conservative Okie rhetoric, I wouldn't have lasted a day out in the real world.

I think we all need to be more understanding of issues facing people who are not ourselves, and possibly even a little different from ourselves. The first step to solving a societal issue is admitting that it exists, and this thread is a major testament to that. The user PennyQuilts is a major testament to that.

I also think Penny needs to take a deep breath and lay off the caps lock key. :dontgetit

Yeah, but you're NOT a gay elected official and there's nothing symbolic about burning a trash can. I mean, I guess we shouldn't jump to conclusions about the cross that was burned on the front lawn of some Obama supporters in New Jersey, but, come on, I'm pretty sure we all know what that was about and it's certainly more analogous to this flag burning than to your trash can incident.

So, to follow your logic, I am unimportant because I am not a gay public official? And how in the world are incidents in New Jersey connected to a flag burning here? I understand the symbolism regarding cross burning, but missed the memo that flag burning holds the same symbolism.

How is burning a flag a homophobic protest? I'm not saying it wasn't directed at him because he's gay (I don't know and didn't even read this whole thread), I'm just wondering, if it was a gay bash, how is burning a flag a relevant symbol for anti-gay sentiments? Jobless rednecks can't afford lumber for their own kerosene crosses?

Giving the benefit of the doubt, maybe the flag had a spider on it. You gotta burn it if there's a spider on it. KIWF!

There's no way to know if the flag burning was associated to his sexuality but the thought of burning our flag, other than the proper disposal, offends me greatly.

In summary

What happened was an outrage for a specific reason.
What happened was an outrage irrespective of the reason.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Whatever the motivation behind it, I hope that somehow the responsible person can be identified.

There's no way to know if the flag burning was associated to his sexuality but the thought of burning our flag, other than the proper disposal, offends me greatly.

I'm not into the whole protest thing, but I honestly don't care if people want to burn the flag. It's just a piece of cloth and it has no meaning to me generally, as I don't really buy into the civil religion that holds some things as inviolably sacred. Burning a flag on somebody's lawn, however, I see no justification for.

I'm not into the whole protest thing, but I honestly don't care if people want to burn the flag. It's just a piece of cloth and it has no meaning to me generally, as I don't really buy into the civil religion that holds some things as inviolably sacred. Burning a flag on somebody's lawn, however, I see no justification for.

I don't know anything about you or your beliefs but as I see it a lot of good people died for that piece of cloth and I would die defending it.

I don't know anything about you or your beliefs but as I see it a lot of good people died for that piece of cloth and I would die defending it.

Thank you, Roadhawg. I used to feel much like White Peacock but over a long period of time changed my mind. I understand how flag burning is a type of freedom of speech but over time, believe I've become a bit wiser and more appreciative concerning what it stands for and means.

I am frankly impressed at the level of your objection to gay issues being openly debated within a public discourse. Particularly for someone who claims to have relocated to OKC from the East Coast. My perspective, being that of a young straight guy born and raised in the south who has since taken up residence in a few very liberal places, is that if I had gone to Canada, Europe, or the west/east coasts with this kind of conservative Okie rhetoric, I wouldn't have lasted a day out in the real world.

I don't object to publically discussing gay issues and insisting I do is dishonest, at best. I do object to kneejerk accusations of gay bashing without good evidence beyond having a gay victim. This whole thread was started in an attempt to get a jumpstart on bashing the gay bashers on the flimsiest of evidence. Jumping to that kind of conclusion evidences a lack of judgment and does nothing but sound unfair and hysterical. Where is the downside in waiting to see if there is any evidence supporting the accusations before charging in and accusing people? And for that matter, do you really think the victim would appreciate all this animosity expressed towards people who have expressed support for him as a veteran and fury that someone would dare to burn his flag?

I don't object to publically discussing gay issues and insisting I do is dishonest, at best. I do object to kneejerk accusations of gay bashing without good evidence beyond having a gay victim. This whole thread was started in an attempt to get a jumpstart on bashing the gay bashers on the flimsiest of evidence.

So.. your objection is that people would bash gay-bashers?

So.. your objection is that people would bash gay-bashers?

I never said that. I have a gay brother and a gay step brother, both of whom I love and if someone was unkind to them, I would be furious. What I don't like is gratuitous bashing of gay bashers when there isn't any evidence that is even happening. You are now trying to paint me as a gay basher because I haven't jumped onto your little fury party. Having been around gay family members all my life and seen how gay folk are often treated/mistreated, I take my cue from them - they don't want a bunch of hysterics creating artificial drama in their name and going out of their way to create bad will with people on the fence - and they certainly wouldn't expect that sort of thing in the case of a veteran having his flag burned. It is just as likely that an anarchist or someone with a beef with the United States would burn a flag on Memorial Day as your theory. But we don't know at this point. My brothers are much more than their sexual orientation and just want to be treated with respect like any other human being. So I am doing that and wish you would do the same. And I also wish you would lay off the hostility towards me because you really have no earthly idea what you are talking about.

If a FLAG was burned, it would pretty much have to have been left-wing extremists.
Who else would burn a flag?

If a FLAG was burned, it would pretty much have to have been left-wing extremists.
Who else would burn a flag?

Well, at this point, we don't know. It sounds like something a left-wing extremist might do, certainly, and apparently, that neighborhood has its share of far left types. But, again, we just don't know. If it was about gay bashing, I would think it would be a snotty kid who didn't understand just how offensive it would be to burn an American flag. The circumstances were just about as disgusting as it gets. Whoever did it and no matter why they did it should be ashamed and I hope they catch them.

It sounds like something a left-wing extremist might do, certainly, and apparently, that neighborhood has its share of far left types.

Wooooooooah.

If I were to match the profile of the crime to the absolute likeliest perpetrator I would say Westboro or somebody who sympathizes with Westboro. There are obviously plenty of folks like that around OKC if you consider the people we elect from Central Oklahoma to represent us in the state legislature such as Sally Kern, Ralph Shortey, and Mike Reynolds.

Wooooooooah.

If I were to match the profile of the crime to the absolute likeliest perpetrator I would say Westboro or somebody who sympathizes with Westboro. There are obviously plenty of folks like that around OKC if you consider the people we elect from Central Oklahoma to represent us in the state legislature such as Sally Kern, Ralph Shortey, and Mike Reynolds.

Well, there is another possiblity and one I hadn't thought of. Sounds exactly like something one of them might do other than the fact that it was done in secret.

... Sounds exactly like something one of them might do other than the fact that it was done in secret.

OMG, still laughing while nodding my head up and down. Some people don't do much sans a publicity angle.

Hell, people try to burn people's homes down all the time just because they don't like something they said.
Much ado about nothing.
Self-promotion is the curse of the gay movement.
Tawanna Brawley.

Look for Al Sharpton to be here soon.
And Gloria Allred.

If a FLAG was burned, it would pretty much have to have been left-wing extremists.
Who else would burn a flag?

Someone that absolutely hates mustard on their burger.

Well, there is another possiblity and one I hadn't thought of.

How can you not think of Westboro or one of their local sympathizers when you see a veteran and a gay leader being bashed simultaneously?

I'll go ahead and predict you or rcjunkie's reply to this: "They're in Kansas and weren't visiting at the time." It is a joke to not admit how deep-rooted gay bashing in Oklahoma is. Stop excusing it or pretending it isn't happening.

I can't believe this thread is still going, either.

Hell, people try to burn people's homes down all the time just because they don't like something they said.
Much ado about nothing.
Self-promotion is the curse of the gay movement.
Tawanna Brawley.

Look for Al Sharpton to be here soon.
And Gloria Allred.

Is this post intended to be self parody? If so, kudos!

How can you not think of Westboro or one of their local sympathizers when you see a veteran and a gay leader being bashed simultaneously?

I'll go ahead and predict you or rcjunkie's reply to this: "They're in Kansas and weren't visiting at the time." It is a joke to not admit how deep-rooted gay bashing in Oklahoma is. Stop excusing it or pretending it isn't happening.

I can't believe this thread is still going, either.

I can't either. With Pete's OK, I'm good to close it. No new ground being broken here.

How can you not think of Westboro or one of their local sympathizers when you see a veteran and a gay leader being bashed simultaneously?

I'll go ahead and predict you or rcjunkie's reply to this: "They're in Kansas and weren't visiting at the time." It is a joke to not admit how deep-rooted gay bashing in Oklahoma is. Stop excusing it or pretending it isn't happening.

I can't believe this thread is still going, either.

Now ketchup I can tolerate, but keep the mustard in the fridge.

How can you not think of Westboro or one of their local sympathizers when you see a veteran and a gay leader being bashed simultaneously?

I'll go ahead and predict you or rcjunkie's reply to this: "They're in Kansas and weren't visiting at the time." It is a joke to not admit how deep-rooted gay bashing in Oklahoma is. Stop excusing it or pretending it isn't happening.

I can't believe this thread is still going, either.

hahaha - no, I didn't think of it because I wasn't looking for a group I hated to hold responsible and make some mileage out of.

This is a criminal act, so even if Westboro were involved (which I doubt), they wouldn't announce it. They are very careful to obey laws so that they can safely continue spreading their vitriol in the most disrespectful, but legal, manner imaginable.

But there's so far nothing to say that others of a Westboro mentality aren't responsible. You don't have to be a LIBRUL to hate AMURKA.