American Fidelity is run by very astute business people.

They have been around for 50+ have, have grown massively, are consistently recognized as one of the best employers around, are highly profitable and still privately owned.

They know what they're doing.


BTW, I have no idea as to the terms of the deal, but the fact the OPUBCO properties got the focused attention of both AF & MidFirst -- there may have been others as well -- speaks for itself. It's my understanding they both bid on it.

Kerry, when Pete says the deal could have been really good, it could have been really good. You'll remember that OPUBCO is no longer in local ownership and is owned by a Denver gazillionaire with no ties to OKC, who probably has a strong incentive to just get rid of all that surplus property.

I haven't seen the deal so I have no idea if it is good or not, but there is a constant assumption that business leaders make good decisions when most of the time - they don't. Just look at the OKC Chamber of Commerce and their design choice for their new headquarters. These are the brightest people in OKC?

Maybe AF had their reasons, but that doesn't mean they were good reason, or even smart reason. Here Spartan, let me get you on my side - Sandridge.

I haven't seen the deal so I have no idea if it is good or not, but there is a constant assumption that business leaders make good decisions when most of the time - they don't. Just look at the OKC Chamber of Commerce and their design choice for their new headquarters. These are the brightest people in OKC?

Maybe AF had their reasons, but that doesn't mean they were good reason, or even smart reason. Here Spartan, let me get you on my side - Sandridge.

If " most of the time" they didn't make good decisions they wouldn't be around anymore. Just because they aren't building downtown and are moving to the burbs doesn't mean they aren't making the right decision for them.

I haven't seen the deal so I have no idea if it is good or not, but there is a constant assumption that business leaders make good decisions when most of the time - they don't. Just look at the OKC Chamber of Commerce and their design choice for their new headquarters. These are the brightest people in OKC?

Maybe AF had their reasons, but that doesn't mean they were good reason, or even smart reason. Here Spartan, let me get you on my side - Sandridge.

JTF just gets pissed when any move doesn't fit his new urbanism ideology. While I generally agree with urbanism, people that grasp too closely to ideologies become distanced from anything that doesn't fit their narrow views. In this case, JTF lashed out at business leaders as "dumbasses."

Kerry, when Pete says the deal could have been really good, it could have been really good. You'll remember that OPUBCO is no longer in local ownership and is owned by a Denver gazillionaire with no ties to OKC, who probably has a strong incentive to just get rid of all that surplus property.
This happens often when companies change hands, Benham had a real estate division and owned a bunch of the land on the northeast corner there (most of the pieces that OPUBCO didn't own except for the adjacent piece to the immediate north) and most of it was sold off around the time of the Atkins acquisition, I have seen drawings for the other office buildings that was planned at one time. The land/building for One Benham Place was sold not long after it was built and Benham leased their space after the sale.

If I knew they were not going to move downtown just to go to the burbs, they should've just stayed on Classen. This will be a big loss to the up an coming uptown area, businesses in the area will take a big hit, as this was the largest employer in the area. Big loss to Downtown, Midtown, an Uptown. AF is not showing any downtown investment. Here is to companies like Devon, Sandridge, Continental, and Chesapeake who show real investment in our city.

Oklahoma City's inability to attact medium to large corporation relocations in comparison to Dallas and other cities causes dependence on the relatively few corporations headquartered here to singularly build the city which I think is unfair. OKC needs new, diversified corporations to at least place regional headquarters here. At some point the 5-6 major players will be built out with no need to continue to expand just to give the city a couple more tall buildings

JTF just gets pissed when any move doesn't fit his new urbanism ideology. While I generally agree with urbanism, people that grasp too closely to ideologies become distanced from anything that doesn't fit their narrow views. In this case, JTF lashed out at business leaders as "dumbasses."

KilgoreTrout - I can see why you would think that, but I can assure that is not the case here. My comment was intended to soley address the assumption that business always make good sound decisions. The list of billion dollar loses on bad trades, the Facebook debacle, AOL/Huffington, failed product launches, bankrupt companies, bank bailouts, automaker bailouts, the entire airline industry, etc, etc, etc, tells me that there are many bad decisions being made out there. Heck, just look at Aubrey McClendon. The guy has made some decisions that have made him billion, but he has made just as many bad decsisions that have cost almost as many billions, and might end up costing him everything. Corporate America is run by Humans, not robots programmed by Vulcans.

Anyhow, enough about that. So AF moves to Britton Road, what happens to the current facility and all of the other land holdings they acquired? Surely they don't plan to hold onto them like OPUBCO did. Does this mean we might see some prime real-estate on the market soon?

As I've stated, the OPUBCO tower actually has slightly less square footage than the AF campus on Classen, and remember that OPUBCO is still going to occupy about 40% of that for the foreseeable future.

So, you have to think that AF is going to build on that property... You could imagine another building that would adjoin the tower. Plus they have about another 100 acres that is completely undeveloped.

Also, I've heard that OPUBCO will eventually move out and may end up back downtown. If they are to be consolidated to five floors in their existing tower, that's about 120,000 square feet they'll need, not counting the printing plant. I would imagine they will keep leasing back the plant indefinitely.

I would like to hear Steve's opinion on this whole thing, I mean he does work for OPUBCO...and had been following AF about possibly moving downtown.

Steve Id like an apology for basically calling my sweet Aunt who is a higher up at AF a liar a few months ago when I said that she said there was no way AF was moving downtown ;)

I would like to hear Steve's opinion on this whole thing, I mean he does work for OPUBCO...and had been following AF about possibly moving downtown.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I'm sure he knows a lot that he is not able to share. However, with the internet and social media it is hard to keep anything quiet for very long. For instance, I've heard that DOK is looking to go totally digital in less than five years. I know that is way out there, but I heard from a source that I trust and he knew about the OPUBCO sale quite a bit before anything popped up here about it. I would really like to hear if Steve has any insider knowledge on that.

Folks, while we can speculate what he may or may not have known, while he is a reporter, it is not unusual for employees to be the last to be told thiings like this...yes there is the rumor mill and such, ut even if he did know, he is employed by them and may not have been at liberty to divulge the info. Please let this aspect rest. If he chooses to, he will share what he can when he can.

Folks, while we can speculate what he may or may not have known, while he is a reporter, it is not unusual for employees to be the last to be told thiings like this...yes there is the rumor mill and such, ut even if he did know, he is employed by them and may not have been at liberty to divulge the info. Please let this aspect rest. If he chooses to, he will share what he can when he can.

No...I will not let it rest...you are right he is a reporter, and its his job to report on things like this, I am sure he is working on a story.

No...I will not let it rest...you are right he is a reporter, and its his job to report on things like this, I am sure he is working on a story.

And it is his editor's and his publisher's job to decide what gets printed. Steve only has so much control in the matter. Cut him some slack.

Will be interesting to see how the dominos fall.
American Fidelity office space is CLASS A REALLY nice!
I think that space will get filled by someone.
Its very attractive

And it is his editor's and his publisher's job to decide what gets printed. Steve only has so much control in the matter. Cut him some slack.

Exactly. It is reporters from other news groups that actually failed. I don't see any criticism here of other news organizations in this city like I see for Steve and OPUBCO. What about News4, 5 or 9?

Steve only gets criticized because he puts himself out there.

The guy works his arse off... Averages about a story a day, keeps his blog very active, contributes here, has written multiple books (another about to be released), is a founder and very active participant in Historyok and RetroMetroOKC, etc., etc.

For instance, I've heard that DOK is looking to go totally digital in less than five years.

Interesting you say that, since today it was announced that the New Orleans Times-Picayune is cutting back to only 3 publications a week starting this fall.

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_20701802/new-orleans-times-picayune-plans-publish-only-three

For instance, I've heard that DOK is looking to go totally digital in less than five years.

Interesting you say that, since today it was announced that the New Orleans Times-Picayune is cutting back to only 3 publications a week starting this fall.

There was some analysis done and it would be cheaper for several of the major newspapers to buy every one of their readers a kindle and switch over to totally digital than continue on with paper, within one year they would have more than made up the cost, the main issue is ad revenue for digital is still not equal to traditional news ad revenue.

Steve Id like an apology for basically calling my sweet Aunt who is a higher up at AF a liar a few months ago when I said that she said there was no way AF was moving downtown ;)

Why did your aunt say that?

Nonetheless, if AF was so opposed to downtown all along, perhaps we need a new name for the new downtown elementary school. It should be named after someone whose company isn't anti-downtown.

Will be interesting to see how the dominos fall.
American Fidelity office space is CLASS A REALLY nice!
I think that space will get filled by someone.
Its very attractive

If I had to guess, I would say those towers stand a good chance of getting painted dark gray.

Besides, is that really Class A space? I thought it was Class B..

Why did your aunt say that?

Nonetheless, if AF was so opposed to downtown all along, perhaps we need a new name for the new downtown elementary school. It should be named after someone whose company isn't anti-downtown.

No s--t. Why name it for that guy? I get so sick of this good old boy backslapping BS in OKC.

AF WAS looking downtown!

This OPUBCO deal kind of came out of nowhere and they felt they had to jump on it.


I'm hearing they paid around $70M for over 800,000 sf of space plus 150 prime acres. That's a very good deal, and remember they have a bunch of acreage just south of this property as well.

I'm sure they felt this was the best business decision for them and it's hard to argue against it. They can grow as much as they want to up there and still have plenty of room to spin off some property or develop it for lease.

Interesting you say that, since today it was announced that the New Orleans Times-Picayune is cutting back to only 3 publications a week starting this fall.

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_20701802/new-orleans-times-picayune-plans-publish-only-three

That is very sad news. It seems inevitable, but when the death of the printed paper comes I will be very sad.

The article I saw said that they were making the move even though the New Orleans paper is still profitable

On another note, I am not sure I understand the apparent hostility towards Af and wanting to remove its founders name from the new downtown school. Is their current location within the bounds of the Central Business Core? While they were supposedly considering moving downtown at least they are remaining in OKC and not going to Edmond or some other place, right???

The downtown charter elementary school will be named in honor of John W. Rex, a longtime civic leader who was known for his advocacy for children. Rex, shown at right, was president of American Fidelity Assurance Co.
He was a key player in such initiatives as Success by Six and Smart Start of Central Oklahoma. He was involved with the Oklahoma City Public Schools Foundation and the Governor's Task Force for Child Development, among many others. Rex died in 2006 at the age of 72.
Read more: http://newsok.com/downtown-oklahoma-city-charter-school-looking-for-headmaster/article/3670518#ixzz1wGbcnNN4

They are taking over 1,000 workers out of the city core and leaving three large buildings vacant, which really stinks. Might as well be Edmond, there aren't really any benefits from being on one side of Memorial Road over the other. Very clearly almost all of the workers will live in Edmond either way, unless some of them already live downtown.

That is very sad news. It seems inevitable, but when the death of the printed paper comes I will be very sad.

I used to think I might fee that way. We currently have the DOK delivered on a wed/wkend package as the lovely enjoys the circulars and coupons and other such inserts. I canna recall the last time I even touched it, as the package includes the online version.

I would actually would prefer they move to downtown Edmond than out in no-mans land. At least in downtown Edmond thier employees could be customers for downtown Edmond businesses and be connected back to downtown OKC by rail at some point in the future.

Wow

I would actually would prefer they move to downtown Edmond than out in no-mans land. At least in downtown Edmond thier employees could be customers for downtown Edmond businesses and be connected back to downtown OKC by rail at some point in the future.

I agree with this actually, let me explain what I think Kerry is getting at in a way that takes the sting out, and sounds like contrite. The point is that it would be nice to see an injection of 1,000 new workers in areas that create positive synergy for QoL. OKC does not collect an income tax, so at some point the further north you go, it makes no difference. OKC's civic goals are retail tax development, center city development, and quality of life enhancement. This move is 100% negative for the latter two, and pretty negative as far as the first goal is concerned - the only reason I wouldn't consider that a complete loss is because there is some retail that exists along 63rd and Memorial that does not exist along Broadway in Edmond, so there's a chance those retail areas could benefit. I do not believe the city is interested in developing a retail hub around Britton and Broadway.

Then again, this is based on Edmond v. North OKC. Not OKC metro v. some other metro. Obviously it's good that they're not leaving the metro area altogether, but was that ever on the table? Doubtful. Similar to Continental, I don't believe that Denver or Houston, while threatened, were ever seriously considered. The key to being competitive with other metros is to be able to ascertain when you're really in competition with another metro and when you're not. Incentives, a very finite resource in the economic development world, should not be squandered when you're not really in competition (a la Continental) and I also don't feel bad at all in lamenting this move when it really does seem to have been the worst legitimate option as far as OKC is concerned.

I would even argue that OKC has a vested interest in Edmond and Norman's QoL enhancement. What is good for the metro, is good for its individual communities. Unfortunately the suburbs have a very different, less sustainable, less successful take on economic development (they do not bear the responsibility of being the major city for the region) and don't often pursue strategies to develop their QoL in a way that actually benefits the entire metro region. If AF relocated to one of the suburban downtowns, alright stinks for Uptown and Classen, but it benefits another area of the metro that can be used to promote QoL in Central Oklahoma, so on balance, if that makes sense, OKC isn't hurt as much except in the retail tax department.

While I would still argue with someone from out of town that we are a very well-ran and successful city, this move does bother me a lot, and I do blame city officials for not stepping in and keeping a major company, a Fortune top-rated workplace, in the center city. There is no way to argue that this move is counter-productive, to say the least, to our civic goals. Unfortunately the city has no control over what AF does, all it can do is dangle incentives and work through the good ole boy network to affect some good, and it would probably take a major incentive from the city to counter the amazingly good deal that OPUBCO offered up. I think this is probably going to go down as the worst of the fallout over the sale of the Oklahoman to Anschutz, who obviously has no community ties. I don't think that the former family ownership would have done this to OKC, and obviously they didn't as this move only came about in year 1 of Anschutz, and boy did he really stick it to us where it hurt. Good for his bottom line though.

For all the anti-Edmond sentiment, at least about 98% of the retail, restaurant and office development on the north side is happening in the city limits of OKC.

That makes a big difference for property and sales taxes.

Edmond has some retail and restaurants, but very little else.

I agree with this actually, let me explain what I think Kerry is getting at in a way that takes the sting out, and sounds like contrite. The point is that it would be nice to see an injection of 1,000 new workers in areas that create positive synergy for QoL. OKC does not collect an income tax, so at some point the further north you go, it makes no difference. OKC's civic goals are retail tax development, center city development, and quality of life enhancement. This move is 100% negative for the latter two, and pretty negative as far as the first goal is concerned - the only reason I wouldn't consider that a complete loss is because there is some retail that exists along 63rd and Memorial that does not exist along Broadway in Edmond, so there's a chance those retail areas could benefit. I do not believe the city is interested in developing a retail hub around Britton and Broadway.


That is pretty close to what I was getting at Spartan. I am for creating pedestrian oriented traditional neighborhood development everywhere it is possible. Than is much easier to do in downtown Edmond than it is on Britton Road. A thousand people would go a long ways towards establishing a serious downtown presence in Edmond that would attract new downtown merchants and help the ones already there, but alas, you can only help those who help themselves because the City of Edmond is building their new convention center and convention center hotel out at I-35 and Covell Road. Which brings us to JTF's First Law of Development - a city in suburban sprawl motion tends to stay in suburban sprawl motion.

Yeah, I don't know what the deal is with Edmond. You guys know I kvetch a lot about OKC City Hall, but at least I would defend OKC to outsiders as a very well-ran city, and I only kvetch in the first place because I assume people around here actually care to find the best solutions. I have no idea what Edmond is smoking.

Building on what Pete mentioned, Edmond is a very anti-development city. They make development extremely difficult and unattractive and they only seem to want bad development and they're gung ho to squander opportunities like the convention on the freeway halfway between Memorial Rd and Guthrie. Unbelievably poor city management, but I suppose that's the Edmond way. I don't even know what could possibly be strategic from a sheer growth perspective, because in that dept all the 'burbs are getting their arse handed to them by Moore lately.

Yeah, I don't know what the deal is with Edmond. You guys know I kvetch a lot about OKC City Hall, but at least I would defend OKC to outsiders as a very well-ran city, and I only kvetch in the first place because I assume people around here actually care to find the best solutions. I have no idea what Edmond is smoking.

Building on what Pete mentioned, Edmond is a very anti-development city. They make development extremely difficult and unattractive and they only seem to want bad development and they're gung ho to squander opportunities like the convention on the freeway halfway between Memorial Rd and Guthrie. Unbelievably poor city management, but I suppose that's the Edmond way. I don't even know what could possibly be strategic from a sheer growth perspective, because in that dept all the 'burbs are getting their arse handed to them by Moore lately.

In yesteryear Edmond, a personal friend of mine who was and still is a developer, was building a shopping center in Edmond back in the 80's. This guy is from a local somewhat powerful family, which owns several banks and so forth. He told me that when they were three fourths finished, he was approached by city officials wanting a $10,000.00 kick back to a few Edmond politicos or they would shut his development down. This led to him getting his family involved with a local judge, whom his father was good friends with. He was able to complete and sell his development, and he told me that he'd never touch Edmond again.

...I don't think that the former family ownership would have done this to OKC, and obviously they didn't as this move only came about in year 1 of Anschutz, and boy did he really stick it to us where it hurt. Good for his bottom line though.
Spartan, I appreciate the time you took to reply and can see where you & JTF are coming from a little better. I do have a question about the part I quoted, didn't the Gaylord family run/owned OPUBCO, do exactly the same thing when they relocated from the downtown area to the current location in question???

OK, now you guys have me confused again...why is it bad for OKC to place the anti-development/dead zone etc Convention Center DT (some suggested it be put in an out of the way location, but Edmond is making a mistake by putting theirs away from the DT with easy access from the interstates???

Spartan, I appreciate the time you took to reply and can see where you & JTF are coming from a little better. I do have a question about the part I quoted, didn't the Gaylord family run/owned OPUBCO, do exactly the same thing when they relocated form the downtown area to the current location in question???

Yes they did. OPUBCO moving out of downtown was a bad move for downtown OKC.

Spartan - Excellent post and right on target.

Yes they did. OPUBCO moving out of downtown was a bad move for downtown OKC.

Indeed, the former family ownership made this possible by putting their building out there in the first place.

I don't even know what could possibly be strategic from a sheer growth perspective, because in that dept all the 'burbs are getting their arse handed to them by Moore lately.

Let's not let facts get in the way. Edmond: April sales taxes $3.44 million. 72% increase of building permits 2012 over 2011. Moore: April sales tax $2.03 million. -8% building permits 2012 over 2011. Moore is hardly running circles around Edmond or handing their arses to them. The fact that Moore has some very visible retail areas is great, but hardly shows a referendum on the way their city is managed. Sometimes truth is stretched to tell a good biased story.

While I enthusiastically support and encourage core growth because I believe it is the proper way to improving our city, I don't think that denial of facts serves the purpose of objective analysis. Edmond has a fine lifestyle and is recognized for it. Sometimes the misrepresentations on here and aspersions thrown out come off as jealousy. Moore and south-side has some great development areas and pockets of wealth. It is developing a very nice regional shopping corridor. It is nice in areas, and so is Edmond. It has problems in areas, and so does Edmond. Moore has some corrupt and stupid people, and so does Edmond. But because OPUBCO moved out TOWARDS Edmond or that AF bought their building doesn't make them stupid or our city administrators evil or incompetent. Both are bigger sprawls than serve our city best. We can wish it wasn't so, but to deny the appeal of their lifestyle is just head in the stand.

That is pretty close to what I was getting at Spartan. I am for creating pedestrian oriented traditional neighborhood development everywhere it is possible. Than is much easier to do in downtown Edmond than it is on Britton Road.

It would require some gentrification, but old downtown Britton could turn into something nice. Also, I believe the Gateway Academy ended up being purchased by a developer(Is that still in litigation with Mustard Seed, or what?) so there's some potential there. I don't know how the crime and poverty issues in the Highlands would factor in with that.

This is mostly a pipe dream on my part. I commute down 92nd and work at One Benham Place, so more options on my way to work would be great. At least we have the new Taco Place were Starbucks used to be.

Indeed, the former family ownership made this possible by putting their building out there in the first place.

It is the gift that keeps on taking.

It is the gift that keeps on taking.

LOL Well said

It would require some gentrification, but old downtown Britton could turn into something nice.

Would that be at Britton Road and the railroad? Honestly, I didn't even know that little district existed until 2 minute ago. That place would be great for redevelopment and with the railroad right-of-way right there it would make an excelent regional rail transit station.

The little hamlet of Britton has struggled for decades now by being surrounded by a fairly low income area. With the renewed interest and investments at Bway Extension and Britton, it might be ripe for a little refurbishment. It actually has a nest of old buildings that, if rehabbed, could be made into something kind of neat. It used to have a pretty good greasy spoon (Britton Cafe), a modeling agency, a few antique and consignment stores, etc. Don't know what has survived. But it would take real work and real $$$.

If that area got the same kind of street-scaping that the Plaza District got it could be very cool. Just because the area around it might be on the lower income side doesn't mean they don't need places to eat, shop, and work that are neighborhod and pedestrian friendly. This would be a perfect place to test out my neighborhood based bus system. Instead of long distance buses traversing the city run small capacity neighborhood buses out of a transit hub located at Western and Britton. The routes could connect all the neighborhoods in the surrounding area to the central retail/commercial district providing customers to businesses and a transportation alternative to the automobile. I wonder if AF would be interested in helping fund some of this cost since they are moving to the area.

Perhaps a hint by Steve that OPUBCO could be coming back downtown, bringing it back full circle (given the timing)?

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/05/30/flashback-the-oklahoman/

OPUBCO moving back downtown would be huge.

Perhaps a hint by Steve that OPUBCO could be coming back downtown, bringing it back full circle (given the timing)?

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/05/30/flashback-the-oklahoman/

How is this a hint?

Just the fact that he's talking about their previous and current locations and showed flattering pictures of the old downtown locations. And as I said, mainly just the timing of the sale, what's the point of doing a rundown of where OPUBCO has been just because they are downsizing in their current location?

The post was on OKC Central after all, where all things downtown related are discussed. Just thought it was interesting...

I also must be missing something. but I wouldn't be surprised if such a move was considered in the future.

I've heard they are indeed looking to move downtown, but will be staying put for a while.

Not sure what they are going to do with the printing plant but I suppose they would keep using the current location and just locate non-production staff to new offices.

But remember, they are only occupying about 5 floors of the tower, so just over 100,000 sf.

Maybe they can take over some of the space being vacated by AF, would that make everyone less opposed?

Maybe they can take over some of the space being vacated by AF, would that make everyone less opposed?

Actually, many of us were hoping AF would move, but to downtown.

If that area got the same kind of street-scaping that the Plaza District got it could be very cool. Just because the area around it might be on the lower income side doesn't mean they don't need places to eat, shop, and work that are neighborhod and pedestrian friendly. This would be a perfect place to test out my neighborhood based bus system. Instead of long distance buses traversing the city run small capacity neighborhood buses out of a transit hub located at Western and Britton. The routes could connect all the neighborhoods in the surrounding area to the central retail/commercial district providing customers to businesses and a transportation alternative to the automobile. I wonder if AF would be interested in helping fund some of this cost since they are moving to the area.

That would be the best result, I think. I'm just worried that whoever got the Gateway Academy is just going to turn it into another Laundromat/Payday loan/drive through smoke shop mini strip. Those things just perpetuate the cycle. Renovating the old Ritz theater into a small community center might be a good thing, as well.

There is some scaffolding around the Ritz but not sure what they are doing.

There were layoffs this week at Phil Anschutz's Examiner.com offices in Denver.


http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2012/05/examiner_com_lay_offs_senior_staff_colorado.php

There is some scaffolding around the Ritz but not sure what they are doing.

Honestly, it just looks like it's there to hold up the marquee before it falls down and kills someone.