Looks like they are shutting down Thunder Alley.
http://newsok.com/article/3677634?click_action=1

(http://newsok.com/article/3677634?click_action=1)Mayor Mick Cornett confirmed Tuesday afternoon that Thunder Alley as it has existed will not continue. Cornett said city officials loved the spirit shown by the 6,000 or more people who gathered outside the Chesapeake Energy Arena to watch the game Monday, but the shooting incident afterwards in nearby Bricktown demonstrated the problems with such a setup.
“This ever-growing game night crowd that gathers on the street outside the building, that can't continue,” Cornett said. “There are too many public safety concerns. As much as we love the expression of enthusiasm, it's no longer a workable situation.”
Cornett said city officials haven't met with Thunder management to discuss alternatives, but options such as limiting the crowd size or moving spectators inside the Cox Convention Center are on the table.
“We need to hear from the team and what direction they would like to head,” Cornett said. “I'm sure we can come up with something that is workable.

This article is from yesterday. Look at the dateline. They key words are "as it has existed." There will obviously be some changes, but they could come in the form of admission, new venue, or different pre-game policies outside.

This is from the Mayor's facebook page today. Options are still being discussed.

Thanks to our Facebook friends for the great suggestions on how we might improve events surrounding the Thunder games. A number of your thoughts and ideas have been incorporated into options currently under consideration as we work with the team to ensure that Thunder fans -- the NBA's best -- are able to show Oklahoma City's incredible support for the team. Go Thunder!

we get it you don't like the second amendment

Not a fan of the first amendment either, lately... :laughing_ (I kid, love me some Constitution)



Spartan, it is not complicated, except perhaps by you blurring your vision with anti-firearm silliness.

Kevin, I will own up to that. My vision is blurred with anti-gun silliness, and I'll admit I hardly have an unbiased perspective on the matter for various reasons. I'm not going to lambaste anyone here for supporting gun liberalization so I will just "stand down" and walk away from my smoking gun...

For those of you who've been to TA to watch, are the sketchy thugs all dispersed throughout the crowd, or do they just hang around the outside? B/c from the aerial shots it looks like there's a nice density of families or young people watching the game with no thug element at all. Am I just missing the thug presence?

I've been to the playoff games so I know about the sketchy kids that hang out near Bricktown, but I'm wondering if those of you saying there was an unsafe vibe were just in a bad pocket of the crowd, or if that permeated throughout the whole area?

Spartan and Roadhawg. I apologize for using the term black for that suggested I associated all that way. I should have substituted it with other words I have seen used so far such as punks, gangbangers, hoodlems, thugs, ect. (which sounds racist to me). But when one specific group of kids (which could have been any race) seperates themselves and acts like fools (including trying to intimidate me and saying innapropriate things to my mother and gf while trying to walk through the crowd) then I am going to call them out on it. Im sorry that disqualifies what I see and hear with my own eyes.

It doesn't, I may have been hastily overreacting honestly. I'm sorry you and your family were caught up in all of that. I probably would have been too, and I don't know how I'd be reacting if I had been, but thankfully I generally avoid Bricktown like the plague these days. Because Bricktown is the plague in my opinion...

I think we should get back to the Thunder or Bricktown problem debate :backtotop , because I think that could still be meaningful to hash out. I say Bricktown problem. The Thunder has never had anything like this before, and let's face it, the arena environment is surrounded by... Bricktown.

I'm all for throwing the thugs in Bricktown under the bus, including the minority gangbangers, including the white trash who beat people up outside ROK bar. Along with the thugs, I'm all for throwing a bunch of people under the bus here.. the teenagers, the rednecks who park their hemi trucks everywhere, and on and on.

Bricktown has some people problems. The problem is that this is what Bricktown wanted to be. Bricktown chose to focus on these demographics instead of classier niches which have migrated totally toward Deep Deuce and esp Mid-town. Now Bricktown can reap what they sew as far as I'm concerned. You sell out to trashy "entertainment," don't blame your trashy crowds on the Thunder. The Thunder is, imo, a very classy organization, and I just don't appreciate the Bricktown powers that be pointing such an accusatory finger toward them.

As far as I'm concerned the Avis Scaramucci real estate holdings empire, and its great concern for the vibrant and safe appearance of the district, does more to scara me away than any other factor.

For those of you who've been to TA to watch, are the sketchy thugs all dispersed throughout the crowd, or do they just hang around the outside? B/c from the aerial shots it looks like there's a nice density of families or young people watching the game with no thug element at all. Am I just missing the thug presence?

I've been to the playoff games so I know about the sketchy kids that hang out near Bricktown, but I'm wondering if those of you saying there was an unsafe vibe were just in a bad pocket of the crowd, or if that permeated throughout the whole area?

I've walked in and out of it throughout the whole series. Total mix of all kinds of people. No one demographic or culture stands out. It is super well lit and feels like an outdoor general admission concert for the most part.

It's bricktown that feels sketchy, not Thunder Alley.

The Thunder just tweeted this:


Love's Thunder Alley pregame party to continue, but will end when games start. We will no longer show games outdoors. Thanks, Thunder fans!

Really weak stuff all the way around from our city leaders.

We are basically caving in to some senseless thugs and telling the world we can't even keep our own city safe.

Ugh.


Royce Young ‏@dailythunder
The Thunder will no longer show games outside the arena. Pregame festivities will continue on.

Darnell Mayberry ‏@DarnellMayberry
Thunder alley: Done! The team will continue to have pre-game festivities leading up to the game, but no longer will show the game outside

Edit: Pete beat me to it. Totally agree, Pete. I'm even surprised the Thunder's PR people have been so weak on this. They've shown no appreciation of what was built over 2 weeks, instead just choosing to dismiss it like nothing's lost.

Damn OKC is going to let the POS Thugs win. Weak weak leadership by Cornett.

I agree but I would guess NBA security had a role in this decision too...

This certainly wasn't a kneejerk reaction from Mayor Cornett or anything. . . /sarcasm.

Seriously? A couple of underage punks in bricktown can have this sort of leverage over a multi-million dollar organization? Wtf. I'm surprised Cornett folded this quickly considering all of the great things he usually does. . .

Just gives thugs more power and encourages this sort of behavior.

Gives control over thousands to a few weak and cowardly people.

Really, really the wrong way to handle this but you could see it coming, especially when no one in the city stood up and made any type of statement.


Spent billions making downtown a great gathering place, now let's discourage people from going there.


We really live in culture of fear.

Please correct me if I am wrong . . .
Wouldn't proper policing of events such as this involve "profiling"?

Of course, in order to answer that question one would have to define:
1) proper
2) policing

Please be advised that I am 90% on the correct side of "the thin blue line" . . .

Just gives thugs more power and encourages this sort of behavior.

Gives control over thousands to a few weak and cowardly people.

Really, really the wrong way to handle this but you could see it coming, especially when no one in the city stood up and made any type of statement.


Spent billions making downtown a great gathering place, now let's discourage people from going there.


We really live in culture of fear.


In other news, OKC releases official press statement encouraging all individuals to lock themselves in their closet and cars to remain safe and family friendly. Bricktown will be officially demolished in 2013.

this sucks so bad, I don't watch the games in TA but it was an awesome event to witness when attending the games. I go to 20+ regular season games and all of the playoff games and have stopped to eat somewhere in bricktown before every single game. I will never spend another dollar in Bricktown.

This is their problem and the Thunder are the ones making the changes.

Other cities deal with big crowds all the time.

But let's not even try. Let's just give up as a result of one ugly incident and confirm to the world and our own citizens that downtown isn't safe and everybody who doesn't have a ticket should stay in the suburbs, behind locked doors.

This decision will have catastrophic consequences. Good luck getting soccer moms and their progeny to come to Bricktown or anything else downtown. We've just validated their irrational fears.

This decision will have catastrophic consequences. Good luck getting soccer moms and their progeny to come to Bricktown or anything else downtown. We've just validated their irrational fears.

Soccer moms are generally the type of people who propagate such fear mongering. . . I love moms and soccer, but these are the people who prevent us from having nice things.

EDIT: My point is that some people have never learned about risk management. I mean theoretically, I would have had a safer life if I had never been born.

There goes MAPS 3 funding...might as well cut the senior citizen aquatic centers off the list now.

I personally witnessed "proper policing" down in Dallas on OU/Texas Eve.
On Commerce Street. Many years ago, when I was young and before OU lost.
Every time any member of the New York City Sized Crowd slowed down on their sidewalk stroll, they were told to keep moving by the forces of Law and Order in Dallas.

At one point, I stopped to chat with a fellow celebrator, was grabbed on the shoulder by an unknown assailant, spun around with the fist drawn back to punch him in the face, and saw the badge and the baton.

I moved along.
(even if he might have been some "deputy" from Vidor or wherever)

Big League City demands Big League Crowd Control
(and Thug Recognition Software)

Doesn't it?

I wonder how does Norman handle 85,000 people on football game days But OKC can't handle Thunder Ally?

There goes MAPS 3 funding...might as well cut the senior citizen aquatic centers off the list now.

Good thing we put up that new television screen..err..I mean advertising board.

Good thing we put up that new television screen..err..I mean advertising board.

Yeah, I asked a friend who works for the Thunder front office if they were going to take it down or leave it up for concert advertising...she answered the latter.
Probably more of an SMG thing anyway, since they manage the arena.

It is a big deal when eight people are shot. A very big deal. We are lucky that those people are not all dead. Evidently the city of OKC is not ready to deal with the security it takes to have these gatherings. I have heard that some of these people were taunting people who were leaving the arena with foul mouths and gang signs. I am not sure why the city can't curtail the gangs and gang violence in this small city but it is evident that they can't and the safety of the citizens is at risk at this point. Police Officers can't profile people but private security people can on private property. The can also search people and detain people for the police. Private Security Companies may be the answer to securing Bricktown during these events. Security Companies with big and bad security officers.

The Thunder just tweeted this:



Really weak stuff all the way around from our city leaders.

We are basically caving in to some senseless thugs and telling the world we can't even keep our own city safe.

Pete - it is because the solution is unpalatable to many people. Just look at the blinders several people are wearing just in our small group here on OKCTalk. They simply do not want the problem defined and dealt with. They want to substitute in fake reasons and fake solutions, but that doesn’t keep real people safe.

They could put 1,000,000 cops in Bricktown but if they can't identify a potential trouble maker and netrualize the situtation before the shots are fired then what good does it do? It is too bad law enforcement got out of the 'crime prevention' business.

It is a big deal when eight people are shot. A very big deal. We are lucky that those people are not all dead. Evidently the city of OKC is not ready to deal with the security it takes to have these gatherings. I have heard that some of these people were taunting people who were leaving the arena with foul mouths and gang signs. I am not sure why the city can't curtail the gangs and gang violence in this small city but it is evident that they can't and the safety of the citizens is at risk at this point. Police Officers can't profile people but private security people can on private property. The can also search people and detain people for the police. Private Security Companies may be the answer to securing Bricktown during these events. Security Companies with big and bad security officers.

Thug Recognition Software:
The Trained Police Officer Brain Under the Helmet.
(Backed up by CCTV)

You want "Big League"?
You got it.
Now what?

(Would it be unfair or unrealistic
to bring the phrase "Culture War"
into the discussion?
As a counter-move to the "Soccer Mom" quip?)

Speaking as a citizen, and citizen only: baby, meet bathwater. A shame.

I wonder how does Norman handle 85,000 people on football game days But OKC can't handle Thunder Ally?

Different type of crowd.

They could put 1,000,000 cops in Bricktown but if they can't identify a potential trouble maker and netrualize the situtation before the shots are fired then what good does it do?

I don't think it takes a crack CIS team to identify young people hanging around, taunting people, flashing gang signs and generally looking for trouble.


And BTW, there is still a large violence and safety issue in Bricktown regardless of Thunder Alley. Time for the mayor and city to step up, not back down.

So . . . JTF(amigo) How are the crowds in Jacksonville, FLA?
(speaking only as a "local" hick . . . with a sense of planning.)

I'd like to see "Mayor Mick" spin this one in a convincing way.
I could decide to change my mind about him being
only a former sportscaster/mouthpiece
for the "bigger pictures'" interests.

Like his MAPS ad . . .
Except taking into account
the "unanticipated consequences"
of the details*.

(*the eight people shot)

Pete - it is because the solution is unpalatable to many people. Just look at the blinders several people are wearing just in our small group here on OKCTalk. They simply do not want the problem defined and dealt with. They want to substitute in fake reasons and fake solutions, but that doesn’t keep real people safe.

They could put 1,000,000 cops in Bricktown but if they can't identify a potential trouble maker and netrualize the situtation before the shots are fired then what good does it do? It is too bad law enforcement got out of the 'crime prevention' business.

This

I don't think it takes a crack CIS team to identify young people hanging around, taunting people, flashing gang signs and generally looking for trouble.


And BTW, there is still a large violence and safety issue in Bricktown regardless of Thunder Alley. Time for the mayor and city to step up, not back down.

Could you imagine the outrage if an OKC police officer tapped this guy on the shoulder 10 seconds before he opened fire and asked him to leave the area? Al Sharpton would be all over that. We already had a culture war - decency lost.

Amazingly short sighted move. Gutless, too. I don't know what else to say other than this move just reinforces in people's minds that downtown is unsafe, public gatherings with large quantities of people are unsafe, our security infrastructure cannot handle crowd control. Etc. What a shame for OKC.

This whole country is paranoid about security, even before 9-11.

It's too bad that so many innocent revelers will not be able
to visually participate in the Thunder's march to a championship due to the actions of a couple adolescent punks. Weak indeed.

So . . . JTF(amigo) How are the crowds in Jacksonville, FLA?
(speaking only as a "local" hick . . . with a sense of planning.)

Well - first we need something that could attract a crowd. Jacksonville is the most violent city in Florida (and that is saying a lot), but all the problems are confined to one small area on the near northside. Stay out of there and you are good to go. Sadly, that same crowd is attracted to anything 'free' the city puts on so most decent people don't attend those events.

They could put 1,000,000 cops in Bricktown but if they can't identify a potential trouble maker and netrualize the situtation before the shots are fired then what good does it do?

IIRC, the ratio of OKCPD officers to citizens is something like 1:563. That's just based on police force numbers and OKC proper population. Take into account all the folks coming into downtown for playoffs games and even if you have a Oklahoma County deputy presence, you're still looking at a crowd that's going to be very hard to police.

It's a shame the city or the Thunder organization can't figure out how to combat the negatives.

Could you imagine the outrage if an OKC police officer tapped this guy on the shoulder 10 seconds before he opened fire and asked him to leave the area? Al Sharpton would be all over that. We already had a culture war - decency lost.

Considering this all started with a verbal altercation, if there had been a cop there they could have easily stepped in.

And, if kids (these guys were 16 & 19) are just hanging around, popping off their mouths, no one is going to complain if they are made to move along.

It is gutless.

But I think some blame deserves on those shoveling blame around. The Bricktown powers are desperate to avoid this sticking to them and they successfully scapegoated Thunder Alley for their own benefit. Which is ironic, considering how much of their business is due to the Thunder, and how quickly they're throwing those fans under the bus here.

I think Bricktown will be the biggest loser in all of this.

If TA could have continued on without further incident, it would have restored faith.

Now, this decision feels like an admission that it can't be kept safe.

I hate police in general. I'm 21 and have done stupid stuff in my past. Never been in trouble with the law though and never harmed anyone else. However, I do think that OKC needs a higher police presence. You go to Norman and can see a cop on every street corner. Go to OKC and you'll be lucky to see a couple in your entire visit. Downtown is usually better with regards to police presence, but you know there is still a problem when OKC is still in the top five cities for homicides. This isn't a Thunder or even a Bricktown problem, to be completely honest IMO. I agree that it is time we stopped backing away and ignoring OKC's gang/thug problems. I just think this is a very bad decision in the wrong direction.

I hate police in general. I'm 21 and have done stupid stuff in my past. Never been in trouble with the law though and never harmed anyone else. However, I do think that OKC needs a higher police presence. You go to Norman and can see a cop on every street corner. Go to OKC and you'll be lucky to see a couple in your entire visit. Downtown is usually better with regards to police presence, but you know there is still a problem when OKC is still in the top five cities for homicides. This isn't a Thunder or even a Bricktown problem, to be completely honest IMO. I agree that it is time we stopped backing away and ignoring OKC's gang/thug problems. I just think this is a very bad decision in the wrong direction.

The OCPD are extremely professional, unlike the suburban PDs. A heightened presence, while going against their m.o., certainly would not hurt.

IIRC, the ratio of OKCPD officers to citizens is something like 1:563. That's just based on police force numbers and OKC proper population. Take into account all the folks coming into downtown for playoffs games and even if you have a Oklahoma County deputy presence, you're still looking at a crowd that's going to be very hard to police.

It's a shame the city or the Thunder organization can't figure out how to combat the negatives.

^^Figured people would miss out on what I posted since it was at the bottom of the last page^^


I hate police in general. I'm 21 and have done stupid stuff in my past. Never been in trouble with the law though and never harmed anyone else. However, I do think that OKC needs a higher police presence. You go to Norman and can see a cop on every street corner. Go to OKC and you'll be lucky to see a couple in your entire visit. Downtown is usually better with regards to police presence, but you know there is still a problem when OKC is still in the top five cities for homicides. This isn't a Thunder or even a Bricktown problem, to be completely honest IMO. I agree that it is time we stopped backing away and ignoring OKC's gang/thug problems. I just think this is a very bad decision in the wrong direction.

With the right leadership and proper planning, I'm very sure OCPD could have handled this situation.

This is hardly a unique problem and tons of other cities deal with similar issues almost every day.

Please correct me if I am wrong . . .
Wouldn't proper policing of events such as this involve "profiling"?

Of course, in order to answer that question one would have to define:
1) proper
2) policing

Please be advised that I am 90% on the correct side of "the thin blue line" . . .

Well, it takes profiling behavior, not profiling appearance. A person walking down the street with an 'F the Police' t-shirt on is less of a threat to security than a person in a suit shouting at people as they walk by. What they are DOING is much more important than what they look like.

You mount police on horses because they have a higher vantage point and remain mobile. When traffic flow is disrupted, it can be spotted and addressed by mounted officers in large crowd situations. If you give a trained person visibility, authority, and make them visible to others, you will have a secure area. Oklahoma City CAN do this.


Different type of crowd.

What you never heard of a fight happening near OU games? It's not different in that violence does occur. The difference here is a gun and we all know MANY people in Oklahoma carry guns and they don't all look the same.

The OCPD are extremely professional, unlike the suburban PDs. A heightened presence, while going against their m.o., certainly would not hurt.

I agree completely. I have only been in two situations with the OKC police (I contacted them both times.) They have been nothing but polite and professional in my experience. I can't say I've had the same experience with my encounters in Norman. (IMO, their budget is just way too high. Too many officers per capita, nothing better to do but stop people for a dim tail light or other stuff I guess.).

EDIT: Just saw what you wrote on the last page, OKCisOK4Me.

To stop showing games in Thunder Alley is totally stupid..the shootings had nothing to do with the game. But I think the OKC Police Department is just using the shooting as an avenue to get out of having to police Thunder Alley, because of lack of money and manpower...way to go OKC Police!

With the right leadership and proper planning, I'm very sure OCPD could have handled this situation.

This is hardly a unique problem and tons of other cities deal with similar issues almost every day.

I'm not sure that "cities" are measured in "tons" . . .
Three trained police officers and a good dog could have prevented this...abomniation.
If you threw police officers mounted on horses into the mix, the odds would be better but the costs might increase.

Heck . . .
"Back in the Day" OKC used to have daily shootings between "scofflaws/hooligans" and "peace officers" on what used to be Automobile Alley. Time for a change?

P.S. to "Mr Magoo": If you are 21 and you "hate" police officers well . . . not much else to say you could understand.
Except maybe for this: When you hit oh . . . i dunno... about 50, you can start calling "them" "Officer" instead of "Sir" =)

It is gutless.

But I think some blame deserves on those shoveling blame around. The Bricktown powers are desperate to avoid this sticking to them and they successfully scapegoated Thunder Alley for their own benefit. Which is ironic, considering how much of their business is due to the Thunder, and how quickly they're throwing those fans under the bus here.
Ding Ding Ding we have a winner.

To stop showing games in Thunder Alley is totally stupid..the shootings had nothing to do with the game. But I think the OKC Police Department is just using the shooting as an avenue to get out of having to police Thunder Alley, because of lack of money and manpower...way to go OKC Police!

+1

I personally witnessed "proper policing" down in Dallas on OU/Texas Eve.
On Commerce Street. Many years ago, when I was young and before OU lost.
Every time any member of the New York City Sized Crowd slowed down on their sidewalk stroll, they were told to keep moving by the forces of Law and Order in Dallas.

At one point, I stopped to chat with a fellow celebrator, was grabbed on the shoulder by an unknown assailant, spun around with the fist drawn back to punch him in the face, and saw the badge and the baton.

I moved along.
(even if he might have been some "deputy" from Vidor or wherever)

Big League City demands Big League Crowd Control
(and Thug Recognition Software)

Doesn't it?

Thug recognition software aka racial profiling.

Blaime can't deserve.

Thug recognition software aka racial profiling.
Dude: Like, I'm as white as that "turd in the backseat routine commedianne" recently featured on PBS whose name escapes me at the moment. You know . . . the annoying one . . . Wanda something or other. Sykes maybe.

On the other hand, if she was runnin' her mouth as bad as . . . (nevermind) . . .

Damn OKC is going to let the POS Thugs win. Weak weak leadership by Cornett.

agreed... if cities folded every time a thug(s) did something there wouldn't be any sporting or civic events. What happened to showing people we're not going to let thugs or terrorists win?

So according to this thread the OCPD is at fault for letting one person out of 20K+ pull a gun and start shooting. Apparently better planning in the week leading up to the game could have stopped a 16 year old from getting pissed at some girls and pulling out a gun.

How the hell did they miss the gun on this guy?? <sarcasm>

They are also being blamed for the being ones that pulled the plug.

Tough gig

Apparently the Thunder, police and the city are supposed to let several thousand people gather but promise not to let anything bad happen

I don't think many are blaming the police.

It was more a lack of planning and lack of personnel, not the cops themselves.

So according to this thread the OCPD is at fault for letting one person out of 20K+ pull a gun and start shooting. Apparently better planning in the week leading up to the game could have stopped a 16 year old from getting pissed at some girls and pulling out a gun.

How the hell did they miss the gun on this guy?? <sarcasm>

They are also being blamed for the being ones that pulled the plug.

Tough gig

Apparently the Thunder, police and the city are supposed to let several thousand people gather but promise not to let anything bad happen

:yeahthat:

This kid is only 16.


Update: 4:50 p.m. Bricktown shooting suspect Avery Myers “confessed to shooting into the crowd,” an Oklahoma City police detective reported Wednesday in a court affidavit.

Police investigating the shooting after the Oklahoma City Thunder playoff game Monday arrested Myers, 16, of Oklahoma City, on Tuesday. He is being held in the Oklahoma County jail on eight complaints of shooting with intent to kill.


Read more: http://newsok.com/teen-confesses-in-bricktown-shooting-oklahoma-city-police-say/article/3677982#ixzz1vjnsPQgJ

Considering this all started with a verbal altercation, if there had been a cop there they could have easily stepped in.

And, if kids (these guys were 16 & 19) are just hanging around, popping off their mouths, no one is going to complain if they are made to move along.

There is no way you can actually believe that. This country has an entire industry setup for just that type of event.

So according to this thread the OCPD is at fault for letting one person out of 20K+ pull a gun and start shooting. Apparently better planning in the week leading up to the game could have stopped a 16 year old from getting pissed at some girls and pulling out a gun.

How the hell did they miss the gun on this guy?? <sarcasm>

They are also being blamed for the being ones that pulled the plug.

Tough gig

Apparently the Thunder, police and the city are supposed to let several thousand people gather but promise not to let anything bad happen

Nearly as tough as the unintended consequences of misreading behavior as evidenced by Trayvon Martin and the "victim" of the Eastland Drug Store shooting?

I don't hate Police Officers.
I respect them. (respect does not equal "fear" in this context)
Even if they are young enough to be a grandchild.
Regardless of race creed or color.

agreed... if cities folded every time a thug(s) did something there wouldn't be any sporting or civic events. What happened to showing people we're not going to let thugs or terrorists win?
This is an admission by OKC officials that OKC can't handle and deal with adverse situations. Big league cities everywhere deal with large crowds associated with sporting events all the time. Apparently OKC is still just a wide spot in the road. Big league city OKC-not. Bush league city = OKC. The mayor among others need to be called out on this big time.

this may be considered "off-topic", but wonder what this bodes for "Opening Night"? Aren't the crowds usually above the 25-30K mark?

Yeah . . . but it's a "different" crowd.