How exactly is the watch party set up? Are there actual visible barriers and boundaries or is it just sit (or not sit) wherever there's room? Also, other than increased security, what should be done to insure safety? I've read from attendees that they saw people carrying multiple 12-packs of beer and alcohol with them. I think that has to go. Have people buy overpriced beer from tents or simply nix alcohol all together. Of course, if the watch party is disbanded, I guess it won't matter.

5:05 p.m. Mayor Mick Cornett confirmed Tuesday afternoon that Thunder Alley as it has existed will not continue.
Cornett said city officials loved the spirit shown by the 6,000 or more people who gathered outside the Chesapeake Energy Arena to watch the game Monday, but the shooting afterward in nearby Bricktown demonstrated the problems with such a setup.
“This ever-growing game night crowd that gathers on the street outside the building — that can't continue,” Cornett said. “There are too many public safety concerns. As much as we love the expression of enthusiasm, it's no longer a workable situation.”
Cornett said city officials haven't met with Thunder management to discuss alternatives, but options such as limiting the crowd size or moving spectators inside the Cox Convention Center are on the table.
“We need to hear from the team and what direction they would like to head,” Cornett said. “I'm sure we can come up with something that is workable.”


Read more: http://newsok.com/update-thunder-alley-to-close-arrest-made-in-bricktown-shooting-following-okc-thunder-game/article/3677634#ixzz1vduuMJD8

5:50 p.m. Police say the shooting victims are Norman Richards III, 22; Leibra Gaines, 22; Twaina Jones, 22; two 14-year-old females; one 13-year-old female; one 15-year-old female; and a 17-year-old male. Destiny Homes suffered blunt force trauma, police said.

Read more: http://newsok.com/update-thunder-alley-to-close-arrest-made-in-bricktown-shooting-following-okc-thunder-game/article/3677634#ixzz1vdvDCFIW

One idea is to move the watch party to inside the Cox Center but I think that would effectively kill it.

also...that only works if there isn't a Barons game (which by the next playoff series they will probably be done, but what about next year?..... although... if the only place downtown were to watch it at the barons game.... hmmm... sell $5 tickets and show the thunder game on the two big screens in the cox center while the barons game is going on... i think i just solved their attendance problem

I love the Thunder and I am a frequent game attendee, but when children get shot, it's game over. If the police cannot adequately prepare for the event, it should not happen. Game two gave them a sufficient sample to know what to prepare for.
I thought about making it to Thunder Alley last night, and I'm sure I would have been unscathed. However, increasing and disbursing the police presence as Pete has suggested or cancelling the event are really the only feasible and palatable options.

This may be the most meaningless and ill informed passage you have ever written here, and given some of your rants over time, that is saying something. A not yet in effect open carry law had nothing to do with what happened in Bricktown. I'll speculate that the existing concealed carry law was not a factor either. I'll further speculate that illegal carry had quite a bit to do with matters. Time will tell, but I'm confident my speculation will end up being far more accurate than your silliness of trying to connect a not yet in place bit of legislation.

I am dismayed that you would call my concerns over the militarization of our local culture meaningless and ill informed. We have a culture where people think that a gun is the answer to problems, and that only a gun can get you what you want. That is regardless of open carry, concealed carry, or illegal carry. It's a huge cultural issue, and it becomes more and more pervasive as a result of our contentious political discourse.

I am still really bummed about what happened last night, but I won't say I didn't see it coming, and the more I mull over that, the more bummed I get. I don't mean to force my negativity on anyone, so if you can make me see things in a more positive light, I'm all ears. I'd love to see this in a more positive light, but 7 women and 1 guy were gunned down by a group of men, and if that doesn't speak to something deeply wrong with our culture, I don't know what does. But this goes much deeper than just Thunder Alley and hoodlum Laker fans.

Spartan, the gun lobby has this country by the balls, and culturally, it's considered macho and "cool" to carry a weapon. And never IN A MILLION YEARS will the gun lobby take one iota of responsibility for embracing and nurturing this cultural phenomenon.

As for Thunder Alley, I am greatly dissapointed in Mayor Cornett's words. I believe the situation can be managed without shutting down the party. He is probably getting a lot of heat to make this move from
some of his more fear-based non-urban constituents.

I also saw that there were two high school graduations downtown last night, which brought a lot younger crowd than would normally be the case.

I spent some time today with Craig Sager from TNT, as they were taping some segments for the upcoming Western Conference Finals and they were using Bricktown as a location. We chatted quite a bit, including talking about the events of last night. He asked me what I thought had happened and my opinions about it, and I told him much of what I've said in this thread.

Here's a guy who has been to untold NBA games in every NBA city in America. I'm sure he's seen it all, and is not uncomfortable at all, even in much more gritty environments and much larger cities. Yet he agreed with my assessment that Thunder Alley had teetered a bit out of control, and that while it was a great event in theory and even initially in practice, that some changes probably need to be made there. He had come to that conclusion last night before the incident, when he had stepped outside during the event itself.

He didn't seem at all judgmental about it, just didn't doubt for a second that TA had fed the problems on Reno, and that its current configuration needed some tweaks if nothing else.

He also wanted me to tell BoulderSooner hi.

I spent some time today with Craig Sager from TNT,

I've never asked this about a dude before, but I'm curious what he was wearing...lol

5:05 p.m. Mayor Mick Cornett confirmed Tuesday afternoon that Thunder Alley as it has existed will not continue.
Cornett said city officials loved the spirit shown by the 6,000 or more people who gathered outside the Chesapeake Energy Arena to watch the game Monday, but the shooting afterward in nearby Bricktown demonstrated the problems with such a setup.
“This ever-growing game night crowd that gathers on the street outside the building — that can't continue,” Cornett said. “There are too many public safety concerns. As much as we love the expression of enthusiasm, it's no longer a workable situation.”
Cornett said city officials haven't met with Thunder management to discuss alternatives, but options such as limiting the crowd size or moving spectators inside the Cox Convention Center are on the table.
“We need to hear from the team and what direction they would like to head,” Cornett said. “I'm sure we can come up with something that is workable.”


Read more: http://newsok.com/update-thunder-alley-to-close-arrest-made-in-bricktown-shooting-following-okc-thunder-game/article/3677634#ixzz1vduuMJD8

So the first reports were pretty much right. They will kill the live broadcast, but the same activities that were there before the the games were broadcast live will still be there.

I sure hope they keep the watch party going. Don't let a few morons ruin it for everybody else.

Urbanized, nice post.

I think the situation could/should be better managed, but it's unfortunate our mayor is letting the unruly actions of one dictate the experience for everyone else.

I've never asked this about a dude before, but I'm curious what he was wearing...lol
Western shirt and jeans. They're playing into the whole San Antonio/OKC cowboy schtick that Barkley has been pushing since it became obvious that those two teams would be the matchup. His crew also asked me if I could help them track down a live chicken for the shoot. I'm sure that was done with the best intentions, of course. Despite doing my best on Twitter, I was unable to produce one.

Western shirt and jeans. They're playing into the whole San Antonio/OKC cowboy schtick that Barkley has been pushing since it became obvious that those two teams would be the matchup. His crew also asked me if I could help them track down a live chicken for the shoot. I'm sure that was done with the best intentions, of course. Despite doing my best on Twitter, I was unable to produce one.

Oh dear...thanks for the warning :doh: lol

The whole thing is a total send-up. Those guys are goofballs.

Below is affidavit and arrest warrant for the alleged shooter who just turned 19 about a week ago (not being 22 as previously reported).

Says the victims knew him and provided the ID.

Also said the pregnant woman was trampled.


Link (http://s3.amazonaws.com/content.newsok.com/documents/bricktownshooting.pdf)

Below is affidavit and arrest warrant for the alleged shooter who just turned 19 about a week ago (not being 22 as previously reported).

Says the victims knew him and provided the ID.

Also said the pregnant woman was trampled.


Link (http://s3.amazonaws.com/content.newsok.com/documents/bricktownshooting.pdf)


Good job to the OKCPD for catching this idiots so quickly.

Poll on newsok.com shows that 80% want to keep Thunder Alley.

I like Pete's idea... the city should be transparent and tell us how they are going to address this in the future. If at all possible I would like to see TA continue on in some way, shape, or form. I've been to many games and have been out in TA before as well, and I have always felt safe. On the other hand, I believe the folks here who are saying the last few days the mood had shifted there... I have been to Bricktown on nights before where fights or shootings occurred... it seems like the possibility is always there when there are large groups of people around.

In some respects I think part of the root cause here is that the NBA, the crowds it draws, and the events of TA are still new territory with respect to the city and its various administrative and law enforcement branches. Several times last night during the game Barkley and others made comments about the size of the crowd in TA, the last time the tone in their voice did seem to be that of concern. Perhaps this is why you don't commonly see these types of things, to this scale, in other NBA towns. Maybe they've all gone through this and learned from it. Maybe OKC should admit that, tell us how we move forward, and move on. I'm not blaming anyone but the idiots who fired the shots, but I do think that the city owes us some explanation of how they will keep the area down there safe, and hopefully whatever plan they come up with won't be a huge over-reaction to the issue.

Lots of good posts, here. Urbanized, great posts.

So sorry about TA. I imagine the city is concerned not only with safety but lawsuits should it allow it to continue now that this has happened and they are "on notice" of a problem. We are getting to be a bigger league city but I have to wonder if we have enough money set aside to beef up the police presence sufficient to make it worth it to the city to run the risk of a law suit. Maybe by next season, they will have come up with a plan to keep TA. Hope so.

That is the most ignorant thing I've read in awhile... read the law before you say that this has any connection to open carry.

I look at posts 129, 134, and 154 and it makes me wonder even more if TA was anything more than a supplier of shields rather than a source of the problem. Those posts relate folks seeing groups stationed in BT hassling folks departing TA. If that is accurate, it is not TA that is the problem, it is what has been a problem off and on again for years, unsupervised teens and babydults looking to flex their big bad tudes, be they white, brown, black, yellow, blue or purple (think barneys on meth .. ick)

But while I see information it happened in the midst of folks leaving TA, I'm not seeing information that says it was happening by folks who had actually been in TA at all.

If they were, it'll come out in time, but thus far, it sounds at least equally plausible some folks gathered on what would become a busy walkway in BT to harass folks as they entered BT. Analogy time. When three people rob an armored car half way down the block from a bank, the best solution ought not be to ban bank customers from ever going back to use their free checking accounts at the bank. Punish the armored heist folks, not the law abiding customers.

I am dismayed that you would call my concerns over the militarization of our local culture meaningless and ill informed. We have a culture where people think that a gun is the answer to problems, and that only a gun can get you what you want. That is regardless of open carry, concealed carry, or illegal carry. It's a huge cultural issue, and it becomes more and more pervasive as a result of our contentious political discourse.

I am still really bummed about what happened last night, but I won't say I didn't see it coming, and the more I mull over that, the more bummed I get. I don't mean to force my negativity on anyone, so if you can make me see things in a more positive light, I'm all ears. I'd love to see this in a more positive light, but 7 women and 1 guy were gunned down by a group of men, and if that doesn't speak to something deeply wrong with our culture, I don't know what does. But this goes much deeper than just Thunder Alley and hoodlum Laker fans.

What you actually did was tie an illegal shooting by a young babydult or late teen to a law not in effect.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Spartan http://www.okctalk.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?p=539816#post539816)

This is what happens when you people elect morons who pass open carry making us the wild west. I just wanted to get that off of my chest. Gun control is a good thing.

The law is not in effect yet.
There is nothing about the new law, or the existing law, that remotely resembles the wild west beyond firearms exist.

Nothing about the senseless shooting in bricktown has anything to do with either lawful conceal carry or when the time finally does come in several months, with lawful open carry.

The wild west dinna involve folks going to training on when/how to shoot, signing up and making a record of who they are and where you can find them, agreeing to show proof to police of a right to carry.

Much like the Clantons and others of the wild west, the shooter(s) in BT -
did things their own way,
scoffing at lawful conduct on a whim
flat out ignoring lawful conduct at most turns.


Neither open carry, nor the existing conceal carry, is even remotely a militia, etc.

There has been conceal carry for well beyond 1/2 your life span, possibly beyond 2/3 of it (sorry I don't remember your age other than sort of recalling you're in the same general age bracket (latter 20's ) as my eldest. It's only relevant in the sense that it's been a non-issue most of oyur life, even though some wild west fears were projected back then too. I was actually amongst the concerned early on. I changed because I was proven completely wrong over time.)

We don't have storm troopers laddie brigades etc. in the civi throngs. We do have some folks, and I am not amongst them, who desire to lawfully carry a concealed firearm. In a few months they can do so without concealment if they choose. Nothing in the bill suggests this will cause more lawful discharge incidents of either concealed or not concealed firearms.

What happened in BT was terrible, but it has no relationship to the lawful carry of a firearm by other folks.

Steve's latest on this subject.

http://newsok.com/bricktown-merchants-property-owners-in-oklahoma-city-say-changes-needed-with-thunder-alley-festivities/article/3677786

For some reason the thing that this keeps reminding me of is the situation that used to occur every year on Commerce Street in Dallas on the Friday before the OU-Texas game. Even with a huge police presence and one way sidewalks, a crowd fueled by alchohol would cause problems.

And according to this article:

http://newsok.com/police-make-two-arrests-in-oklahoma-city-shooting-after-thunder-game/article/3677958

The fact that the Lakers were here had little if anything to do with this situation as some have speculated.


The attorney described Hill as a Lakers fan who also likes the Thunder, but the attorney said the shooting had nothing to do with the game.

“He went down to the game with the shooter,” Bock said. “They were in Thunder Alley. Everything will come out in the next few days. ... It didn't have anything to do with Thunder and Lakers. ... It wasn't a fan-based situation. Some people knew each other from school and some other things and, you know, people get hostile.”

This isn't surprising considering who is being interviewed.

http://newsok.com/after-postgame-shootings-oklahoma-city-shooting-range-owner-decries-gun-free-zones/article/3677796



Guns — concealed or otherwise — are not permitted in Chesapeake Energy Arena and many establishments in Bricktown, creating what Miles Hall, founder and owner of a local gun range, calls a victim-rich environment for the type of shooting that injured eight people after the Thunder game Monday night.

Wouldn't that be nice to open up all of our sporting events to guns? Can you just imagine the terrorists rubbing their hands together in glee?

Hill's thug name on his Facebook page is Lil'Rip. I kinda wonder what his shooter buddy's AKA name is.

Thunder Alley may be something that sets us aside from every other NBA town but maybe the reason they don't do it is because of what has happened here the other night. I, personally, believe Thunder Alley game viewing was awesome and I'm glad they're still going to continue the pre-game activities BUT I also believe that they should find some way to continue the TA activities til the end of the game.

This event could have happened at any other major downtown gathering. Safety is great and all but I've never seen NYC discontinue major outdoor city events due to a few ruggish thuggish individuals (which would be on a far greater scale due to the size of that city).

It seems like if the watch party does get shut down, there will be enough push-back from the fans that it will force the Thunders/City's hands to re-implement it in some fashion. We just need to continue to be loud enough to not let them get away with the easy out.

I hate how the Thunder org is saying "Don't worry, Thunder Alley will still go on, pre-game festivities like always! ... oh, btw, that other thing about the watch party, that's going away" as if we're all worried we're going to lose our pregame kid games. They know that fans are talking about the watch party that has inherited the TA name. Seems like a weak, spineless response from the Thunder.

They need to do the fans a favor and act like they're fighting for the watch party too.

When you people are done Thundering up our downtown:

1. Please don't have broken it.
2. Let us non-fans know so we might think about returning.

According to OSCN, Rodney Dewon Hill turned 21 years old on May 14th...

NINETEEN years old - couldn't subtract 1993 from 2012 in my head. Getting old...

I spent some time today with Craig Sager from TNT, as they were taping some segments for the upcoming Western Conference Finals and they were using Bricktown as a location. We chatted quite a bit, including talking about the events of last night. He asked me what I thought had happened and my opinions about it, and I told him much of what I've said in this thread.

Here's a guy who has been to untold NBA games in every NBA city in America. I'm sure he's seen it all, and is not uncomfortable at all, even in much more gritty environments and much larger cities. Yet he agreed with my assessment that Thunder Alley had teetered a bit out of control, and that while it was a great event in theory and even initially in practice, that some changes probably need to be made there. He had come to that conclusion last night before the incident, when he had stepped outside during the event itself.

He didn't seem at all judgmental about it, just didn't doubt for a second that TA had fed the problems on Reno, and that its current configuration needed some tweaks if nothing else.

He also wanted me to tell BoulderSooner hi.

thanks for the shout out .... Sager is great ... a few of us had dinner with him last night he said said the same things that you talked about above .. the OKC segment ran at the end of inside the nba last night (after the miami game) and the water taxi segment was very cool

Poll on newsok.com shows that 80% want to keep Thunder Alley.

I agree it should be kept. This didn't have anything to do with the Thunder or TA. It was a punk ass kid who already has a long criminal record who couldn't handle a disagreement without pulling out a gun and start shooting and I hope he gets life. This could have happened at Wal-Mart just as easily. This isn't saying the crowd control and parking couldn't have been handled better but to shut down an event that makes the town proud and pulls it together is a knee jerk reaction and isn't directed at the problem.

BTW, they have now arrested a second guy -- a 16 year-old.

It's looking more likely that Rodney Hill was not the shooter but was involved somehow.

It's interesting to note Hill was on the basketball team at PC North and was even a member of their homecoming court just a few months ago. Then, he had a couple of arrests and things seem to have gone down hill for him very quickly.

From NewsOK

Recent incidents of violence in Bricktown include:

• May 16, 2010: Edward Yearby III, 25, of DeSoto, Texas, is shot and killed after a college graduation party at the Coca-Cola Bricktown Events Center. Two others are wounded. Randy Lamar Hall II, 21, the son of an Oklahoma City police officer, is ultimately sentenced to life in prison for the shootings.

• Nov. 27, 2011: Daniel Maxedon, 25, is severely beaten outside of the Rok Bar, 119 E California Ave. He died of his injuries March 6. Police records show this was one of 18 reported assaults in Bricktown from May 1, 2011, through early March.

• Dec. 31, 2011: Two people were shot during an altercation between occupants of a vehicle and a limousine in Bricktown. The injuries were not life-threatening.

• May 21: Eight people were shot and a ninth person suffered blunt force trauma along Reno Avenue near the baseball stadium as the crowd left the Chesapeake Energy Arena following the Oklahoma City Thunder game. One of those shot was in critical condition. The other injuries were not life-threatening.

Read more: http://newsok.com/at-a-glance-violence-in-bricktown/article/3677957#ixzz1vhXNJQ6z

I spoke with a friend of mine within the NBA structure last night, and he said both Dallas and Memphis had similar problems when they had free away game watch parties in their arenas. Unfortunately, free seems to be the common and unifying characteristic.

I agree it should be kept. This didn't have anything to do with the Thunder or TA. It was a punk ass kid who already has a long criminal record who couldn't handle a disagreement without pulling out a gun and start shooting and I hope he gets life. This could have happened at Wal-Mart just as easily. This isn't saying the crowd control and parking couldn't have been handled better but to shut down an event that makes the town proud and pulls it together is a knee jerk reaction and isn't directed at the problem. Absolutely! The first post I absolutely agree with. I haven't seen anything that points to TA being responsible for this. The idiot shooter could have started a fight with anyone leaving the arena proper or anyone that was in BT for some other reason. Blaming TA is simply ridiculous.

I spoke with a friend of mine within the NBA structure last night, and he said both Dallas and Memphis had similar problems when they had free away game watch parties in their arenas. Unfortunately, free seems to be the common and unifying characteristic.

don't know if it was you who said it or some one else ... but the "free is sometimes the wrong price" .. is a great point on this subject ..

o and thanks for the cigar ...

For those of you in denial who don't think that the large gathering in TA had anything to do with this obviously weren't in TA Wed night. The vibe was terrible. Hundreds of punk ass balck kids were all over the place, not even watching the game, waiting and looking for something to happened to give them an excuse to be hard and act like tough guys. This had a spill over effect into bricktown after the game was over. I, along with other people on this board, watched this happen in person.TA needs to be shut down for this season, then reopened maybe once a month next season with strict guidelines. If they don't and it happens again it could be catastrophic

"punk ass balck kids" wow... if you're going to make a bigoted remark at least spell the race correctly.

BLACK kids. If telling the truth makes me a bigot then so be it. Sorry for not being politically correct.

They will have to figure out a way to eliminate the threat before they have another gathering like this. It seems that there were a lot of these gangster types harassing the people in Thunder Alley and harassing people when they were leaving the game. I have never witnessed anything like that happening at an OU game. This could have to do with the location.

You blame the mayor for NEWS9 jumping the gun? Classic

I blame news 9 for jumping the gun...and the Mayor for being unable to control the message. There's no reason for conflicting reports on something like this.

When you people are done Thundering up our downtown:

1. Please don't have broken it.
2. Let us non-fans know so we might think about returning.

This is actually backwards. Thunder fans and even Thunder Alley did not create this situation. Unfortunately, violent incidents have been happening in bricktown off an on for some time now and, until now, no has even suggested that they have been related to Thunder games or Thunder activities. When you actually look at the history of events that have happened in the area it becomes very clear that this is a bricktown problem. There are patches of poorly lit areas, acres of unsecured surface parking, and loosely and inconsistently enforced loitering and curfew ordinances. This is a recipe for trouble. It creates a meeting place for people with idle time to meet, hang out, party, and, unfortunately, "settle" differences.

Think about when you were in high school. Where did a lot of trouble happen? A majority of the time it was in dark and unsecure places like parking lots, fields, or poorly monitored parks. I am no gangster and have never associated with any, but even I remember high school gatherings in unsecure places devolving into violent fights. I also remember how quickly regular meeting places where these things happened going away once security and police anticipated the gatherings and routinely broke them up.

The long term problem here is not Thunder Alley of even the number of people downtown at a given time. It's the lack adequate security planning, competent traffic control, along with the the need to institute and consistently enforce ordinances that are designed with the implicit intent to create an environment which is not conducive to uncontrolled gatherings. Even better lighting along that block and in all of the parking lots would help the cause. Using mounted police to make sure pedestrian flow keeps moving and to break up groups of four or more loitering around would help.

Basically, you shine the light on the cock roaches and they scatter. Why bricktown can not figure this out, I have no idea, especially since it is an organized city district with resources available. The really sad thing is that people are paying attention to it this time and, yet, the blame is being placed elsewhere. This is why if all that comes of this is that Thunder Alley goes away, the result will only be that the city will lose a great event and violence will continue in bricktown while everyone goes back to ignoring it.

This was not a problem that was introduced to the area via Thunder Alley. It's a problem that already existed that Thunder Alley ran into. The way I see it, it's up to bricktown to show that it can make its public spaces safe before I return, not the Thunder.

For those of you in denial who don't think that the large gathering in TA had anything to do with this obviously weren't in TA Wed night. The vibe was terrible. Hundreds of punk ass balck kids were all over the place, not even watching the game, waiting and looking for something to happened to give them an excuse to be hard and act like tough guys. This had a spill over effect into bricktown after the game was over. I, along with other people on this board, watched this happen in person.TA needs to be shut down for this season, then reopened maybe once a month next season with strict guidelines. If they don't and it happens again it could be catastrophic

Wow. Vile post.

BLACK kids. If telling the truth makes me a bigot then so be it. Sorry for not being politically correct.

Not politically correct no but sadly the truth which for some reason seems to upset some here......

Worthy Cook, like I told BigBadBen earlier - there are number of people on this thread who simply don't want to hear what you are saying. Trying to bring this subject to their attention is a lost cause because they have no interest in it. You would have better luck explaining what you saw with your own eyes to a telephone pole.

What you actually did was tie an illegal shooting by a young babydult or late teen to a law not in effect.


The law is not in effect yet.
There is nothing about the new law, or the existing law, that remotely resembles the wild west beyond firearms exist.

Nothing about the senseless shooting in bricktown has anything to do with either lawful conceal carry or when the time finally does come in several months, with lawful open carry.

The wild west dinna involve folks going to training on when/how to shoot, signing up and making a record of who they are and where you can find them, agreeing to show proof to police of a right to carry.

Much like the Clantons and others of the wild west, the shooter(s) in BT -
did things their own way,
scoffing at lawful conduct on a whim
flat out ignoring lawful conduct at most turns.


Neither open carry, nor the existing conceal carry, is even remotely a militia, etc.

There has been conceal carry for well beyond 1/2 your life span, possibly beyond 2/3 of it (sorry I don't remember your age other than sort of recalling you're in the same general age bracket (latter 20's ) as my eldest. It's only relevant in the sense that it's been a non-issue most of oyur life, even though some wild west fears were projected back then too. I was actually amongst the concerned early on. I changed because I was proven completely wrong over time.)

We don't have storm troopers laddie brigades etc. in the civi throngs. We do have some folks, and I am not amongst them, who desire to lawfully carry a concealed firearm. In a few months they can do so without concealment if they choose. Nothing in the bill suggests this will cause more lawful discharge incidents of either concealed or not concealed firearms.

What happened in BT was terrible, but it has no relationship to the lawful carry of a firearm by other folks.

I am curious how you don't think a public shooting has anything to do with our gun laws and our gun agitators who have succeeded in militarizing society and flooding us with public imagery of war and guns.

And now this: http://newsok.com/article/3677796/

I don't normally like to gloat and say "told ya so," but it looks like the gun people are already swarming to make their argument. Either that or our joke of a newspaper is desperate to highlight their argument by putting it on the front page.

Worthy Cook, like I told BigBadBen earlier - there are number of people on this thread who simply don't want to hear what you are saying. Trying to bring this subject to their attention is a lost cause because they have no interest in it. You would have better luck explaining what you saw with your own eyes to a telephone pole.

I prefer not to hear it when bigoted terms are being used. It takes away from whatever message he was trying to make. If one chooses to use bigoted terms in their posts then they would have better luck explaining what they saw at a Klan meeting.

Worthy Cook, like I told BigBadBen earlier - there are number of people on this thread who simply don't want to hear what you are saying. Trying to bring this subject to their attention is a lost cause because they have no interest in it. You would have better luck explaining what you saw with your own eyes to a telephone pole.

Worthy Cook had one sentence that disqualifies everything he said. If I see someone go on a racist diatribe, I just can't bring myself to read the rest of the post. That's just the way it is - racism is a pretty big turn off for me. Just speaking for myself, but I'm sure there are lots on this board who love racism and will agree with anything if they see shades of racism, so perhaps worthy cook hasn't shot himself completely in the foot.

I am curious how you don't think a public shooting has anything to do with our gun laws and our gun agitators who have succeeded in militarizing society and flooding us with public imagery of war and guns.

And now this: http://newsok.com/article/3677796/

I don't normally like to gloat and say "told ya so," but it looks like the gun people are already swarming to make their argument. Either that or our joke of a newspaper is desperate to highlight their argument by putting it on the front page.

we get it you don't like the second amendment

we get it you don't like the second amendment

Personally I don't see the 2nd Amendment as part of what this thug did...

I understand racist talk is protected by the 2nd Amendment but doesn't mean I can't speak out against it and point out the mentality behind the use of it. The 2nd Amendment works both ways ya know.

sorry .. was in response to spartan and his anti gun rant

sorry .. was in response to spartan and his anti gun rant

Not you... I went off on a tangent when I thought you were defending bigoted talk and I was wrong and tried to delete it but you're too fast... my bad

Spartan and Roadhawg. I apologize for using the term black for that suggested I associated all that way. I should have substituted it with other words I have seen used so far such as punks, gangbangers, hoodlems, thugs, ect. (which sounds racist to me). But when one specific group of kids (which could have been any race) seperates themselves and acts like fools (including trying to intimidate me and saying innapropriate things to my mother and gf while trying to walk through the crowd) then I am going to call them out on it. Im sorry that disqualifies what I see and hear with my own eyes.

wc ... it didn't disqualify but took away from your message. I've seen punks, gangbangers, hoodlems, thugs in all colors and they do create problems in our cities and need to be dealt with. I think we both agree there's no place for this and stronger measures need to be taken to try and prevent this from happening again. A stronger police presence, guards and lots of lighting at the parking areas, I asked before and not sure if I got an answer but wondered if the OKC Police had a mounted unit that could do crowd control, under 17 needs a parent in BT area. All these may be part of a solution but stopping TA is not the answer.

I agree. Unfortunately it takes something drastic for people and officials to get their heads out of their rear ends. I would move curfew up to 9 or 10 for kids under 18 who dont have a parent or guardian. Maybe movies that start after 9 you have to be 18 no matter what. More lights and cameras. And I would have more police on horseback. They just seem more intimidating. And maybe enforce a one strike program on any offenders.

I am curious how you don't think a public shooting has anything to do with our gun laws and our gun agitators who have succeeded in militarizing society and flooding us with public imagery of war and guns.

And now this: http://newsok.com/article/3677796/

I don't normally like to gloat and say "told ya so," but it looks like the gun people are already swarming to make their argument. Either that or our joke of a newspaper is desperate to highlight their argument by putting it on the front page.

Spartan, it is not complicated, except perhaps by you blurring your vision with anti-firearm silliness.

Rule 1. Bad guys have, and do, carry and use their firearms illegally. It is not an Oklahoma thing, it's rather universal.

If we did not ever create open carry for lawful possession of firearms as a late 2012 option, Rule 1 still exists.

If we did not ever create concealed carry for lawful possession some 17 years ago, Rule 1 still exists.

If it was illegal to carry a firearm in this state, with mandatory prison terms, except for CLEET trained officers, Rule 1 still exists.

The public shooting had nothing, nothing,nothing to do with someone acting in a lawful manner with a lawful firearm.
Open carry, which does not yet exist, is a non-factor ... 100%
Concealed carry is a non-factor, 100%, unless of course the babydult dolt was a permit holder. I'll take that action faster than some. And if he were a permit holder, he acted unlawfully, not within the limited situations where a weapon might be lawfully drawn.

You or anyone blaming illegal conduct on the existence of unrelated lawful conduct elsewhere is what is so curious.
If the only guns in OKC that night were illegal guns, the tragic public shooting would still have taken place. Crimminies, it took place even though the shooter(s) truly had no way to know if there might be a lawful weapon nearby.

Again, Rule 1. Bad People act outside the law, and without regard for the law.

And despite your spin, the chap from H&H was actually fairly clear that even if a lawful permit holder were in the general area, the training given is to don't throw yourself in the role of hero or aggressor. The quotes pretty much go the opposite way from the position you attempt to imply.

So your gloat is actually misplaced and inaccurate. But given the clear anti-gun bias exhibited, I can't feign surprise.

Bad people do bad things, irrespective of what good people do. Not all that complicated.

For those of you in denial who don't think that the large gathering in TA had anything to do with this obviously weren't in TA Wed night. The vibe was terrible. Hundreds of punk ass balck kids were all over the place, not even watching the game, waiting and looking for something to happened to give them an excuse to be hard and act like tough guys. This had a spill over effect into bricktown after the game was over. I, along with other people on this board, watched this happen in person.TA needs to be shut down for this season, then reopened maybe once a month next season with strict guidelines. If they don't and it happens again it could be catastrophicI appreciate that people that were there have a better view of what actually happened but I still want solid proof before blaming TA. Did the shooter attend TA? Did the shooter specifically target people that attended TA. If so, shut it down. If not shutting down TA is not even part of the answer.


Worthy Cook, like I told BigBadBen earlier - there are number of people on this thread who simply don't want to hear what you are saying. Trying to bring this subject to their attention is a lost cause because they have no interest in it. You would have better luck explaining what you saw with your own eyes to a telephone pole.I'm not a telephone pole. I just believe in gathering facts and then taking action in line with those facts.

From today:


The attorney described Hill as a Lakers fan who also likes the Thunder, but the attorney said the shooting had nothing to do with the game.

“He went down to the game with the shooter,” Bock said. “They were in Thunder Alley. Everything will come out in the next few days. ... It didn't have anything to do with Thunder and Lakers. ... It wasn't a fan-based situation. Some people knew each other from school and some other things and, you know, people get hostile.”


Read more: http://newsok.com/police-make-two-arrests-in-oklahoma-city-shooting-after-thunder-game/article/3677958#ixzz1viQEtzUI

I agree. Unfortunately it takes something drastic for people and officials to get their heads out of their rear ends. I would move curfew up to 9 or 10 for kids under 18 who dont have a parent or guardian. Maybe movies that start after 9 you have to be 18 no matter what. More lights and cameras. And I would have more police on horseback. They just seem more intimidating. And maybe enforce a one strike program on any offenders.

Good points and I forgot about the movies. I still think more lighting and police on horseback might help, hard to be a tough guy and thug when there's bright lights shining over you.

Looks like they are shutting down Thunder Alley.
http://newsok.com/article/3677634?click_action=1

(http://newsok.com/article/3677634?click_action=1)Mayor Mick Cornett confirmed Tuesday afternoon that Thunder Alley as it has existed will not continue. Cornett said city officials loved the spirit shown by the 6,000 or more people who gathered outside the Chesapeake Energy Arena to watch the game Monday, but the shooting incident afterwards in nearby Bricktown demonstrated the problems with such a setup.
“This ever-growing game night crowd that gathers on the street outside the building, that can't continue,” Cornett said. “There are too many public safety concerns. As much as we love the expression of enthusiasm, it's no longer a workable situation.”
Cornett said city officials haven't met with Thunder management to discuss alternatives, but options such as limiting the crowd size or moving spectators inside the Cox Convention Center are on the table.
“We need to hear from the team and what direction they would like to head,” Cornett said. “I'm sure we can come up with something that is workable.