View Full Version : Thunder Alley - Security and Violence issues
adaniel 05-22-2012, 10:35 AM It may be a matter of where they are placed, rather than shear number.
Perhaps those that were at the game last night could comment.
IMO the police presence was very noticeable in Thunder Alley, at least before the game. I can't speak for Bricktown. Walking in and leaving the arena I felt like the "riff raff" element was pretty minimal. My perspective was walking through TA and up Broadway.
Jim Kyle 05-22-2012, 10:53 AM I'm thinking it might be better is somebody else does, at least in these cowards case. Either way I'm sure there's going to be a lot more Police presence and crack downs on gangs, if it was a gang.There was a time, some 50 years ago more or less, when it became a fad among some young gangsters in OKC to force motorists to stop (by stepping in front of their cars at traffic lights), then taunting the driver to get out of the vehicle, and attacking him with bicycle or motorcycle chains. Several folk were injured in such confrontations and police put out a public advisory telling folk to just drive forward slowly and keep their doors locked. The beatings, however, continued...
Then one fine day a group picked on the wrong man. He had a pistol in the glove compartment, and when a youngster swung a motorcycle chain at him, he fired. The chain-wielder dropped dead. The authorities ruled the shooting justified in self defense and ignored the illegal gun although they did confiscate it. And the fad dropped just as dead. It's never come back.
Sometimes, allowing a thing to proceed to its natural consequence proves the most effective way to deal with a problem. Unfortunately we, as a culture, have become so protective of the immature that they are never allowed to learn that actions DO have consequences that might well turn out to be fatal...
soonermike81 05-22-2012, 11:03 AM Seems like the OP might deserve an apology from some people, including me. I didn't bash him on here by any means, but I definitely judged him as being a narrow-minded racist as I was reading his post and the posts following it. I was actually in Thunder Alley the Wednesday night that his wife felt uncomfortable. And even though I saw people of many shapes, sizes, and colors, I didn't see any gang members flashing signs at each other. And FWIW, I can spot a gang sign if it was to be flashed. So right away, I thought the OP was a racist moron who just felt paranoid b/c there were a few people of color outside. But looking back, just because I didn't feel threatened by the "thug-like" attendees of TA, it doesn't mean there wasn't a potential problem just waiting to escalate. He felt there was a potential problem and expressed his concerns, and a few of us jumped on him for it. If you ask me, he definitely called it. And if you don't think there's a correlation between the criminals hanging out in TA and the criminals with the shooting, you're pretty naive. Sorry BigBadBen.
soonerguru 05-22-2012, 11:26 AM I just hope they don't overreact and shut down Thunder Alley.
yukong 05-22-2012, 11:32 AM Might need those security stations that go in the air like they have at the mall parking lots, assuming they don't already have them.
Wasn't at TA during the game, but was at and in the arena a few hours before the game helping with setup and when I left, there was one of those police observation stations in place (like the ones at Penn Square), and police were manning it.
adaniel 05-22-2012, 12:47 PM I just hope they don't overreact and shut down Thunder Alley.
I saw on another Thunder forum that they are going to try and keep it going, although it will be interesting to see if fan involvement will be at the same level. It may not be such a bad thing if crowds aren't as large.
I, for one, will definitely apologize for a post I made earlier in the year about the safety of Bricktown. When everything comes out I think this will be more of a BT issue than anything else. I have personally had few issues down there, but I have heard that after being quiet for the longest violence has really picked up in the past few months. This was from two coworkers who frequent the area but have stopped going. And its not some isolated issue that I personally thought it was.
Urbanized 05-22-2012, 01:11 PM I've attended every playoff game this season and in previous seasons, and walked through the Thunder Alley crowd every time it has existed. I also saw the aftermath of last night's problem from a half-block away. Finally, I saw events like this up close and personal 5-6 years ago when Bricktown had some serious issues with gang members and juveniles asserting themselves on busy Friday and (especially) Saturday nights and causing general mayhem. For what it's worth, here are my observations:
There should not be any legitimate doubts this was connected to Thunder Alley. This event happend shortly after the game, and took place in the swarm of people that was moving from TA to the free parking lots in Lower Bricktown around Bass Pro. This swarm is a regular event, every game, but was turned up about 10 notches in the playoffs and with the mad crush that Thunder Alley has become.
For quite some time, one of my favorite things about Thunder wins has been being in the crowd of jubilant fans crossing Gaylord and going under the viaduct into Bricktown, shouting and cheering.
Over the past few games, that experience has become a little sketchy; with people taking over the traffic lanes, getting into verbal altercations with cars wanting through (why you would try to drive a car through that mess I'll never know) and a general feeling that went beyond jubilation and bordered on chaotic anarchy. It also felt like a recipe for trampling. You could tell that the police were anxious about it, too. It was pretty unsettling getting caught up in that, and I've never felt like that before until this series.
During the Lakers series for the first time ever I started feeling like the whole thing was teetering on out-of-control. It reminded me of what I saw in Bricktown a few years ago on late-night summer weekends; lots of shady-looking people who seemed to be there for some reason OTHER than to spend money, root for a team, whatever. Tons of unsupervised juveniles.
People get all hung up on race when discussing incidents like this, and it shouldn't be about that. The problem is trashy people, period. They were there in all complexions and ethnicities last night, and obviously felt like they had free reign. They made the entire event about themselves. That's a problem in a place with that many people crowded in. The wrong person gets shoved, or slighted, or trash-talked to, and bad things happen. People of all descriptions have been coming to and enjoying Thunder games since the beginning. The difference is that they are paying customers, and crowd control inside is maintained by building staff, police, capacity restrictions, security checks at entries, etc. These people were there to hang out at a free event and treat it like a nightclub. They knew there was no real way to control such a crowd, and they took advantage.
Obviously whoever did the shooting probably did not attend the game itself, as everyone entering got wanded at the security checkpoints at the doors.
Repeatedly when wading through the crowd to go in, we discussed how sketchy it was and that it was going to end badly one night if officials didn't get on top of things in some way. In this case I hate that I was right.
I distrusted the crowd so much after walking through it to go in that we left the game early (which I almost NEVER do), and left via the side door opening to the Courtyard by Marriott's garage, specifically so that we wouldn't be dumped onto Reno. Went between the hotel and garage, crossed Gaylord away from the Reno intersection, and hustled under the viaduct into Bricktown to beat the crowd. As I was under the tracks, I heard a roar go up that I knew meant the game had ended. As always, I cut through the Zio's lot and up Oklahoma to avoid the mob coming down Reno headed to the parking lots in Lower Bricktown. Those people, for the most part, don't make it into the older section of Bricktown.
I can't stress enough; I've been to close to 200 NBA games at this arena and I have NEVER taken that type of evasive action. I'm not bothered by crowds, but I was bothered by THIS crowd.
Based on my various text messages and phone calls from last night, the game ended around 11:20. The shots were within 10-15 minutes of the final buzzer. I was already seated at my favorite post-game bar, and had run to my office for cigars, and police were already descending on the scene before I left my office at about 11:35, so definitely it happened in that time frame (10-15 minutes postgame).
In a nutshell, I'm not sure Thunder Alley can continue in its present form. It was a great idea, really fun for a lot of people, and a great way to celebrate the team and the city. Unfortunately, it has been co-opted by people who are just in it for the free party and the opportunity to act up in a big crowd. These were exactly the same problems we had in Bricktown a few years ago. Free sounds great on the surface, but it can also cause unintended consequences.
I also think the free lots need to be controlled in some way. When we had the problems we had in Bricktown a few years ago with juveniles, gang activity, etc., much of it centered around the free lots, which become a hangout in their own right. Unfortunately it might mean closing them, charging, or something else. I'm not sure simply posting security is enough.
Overall, a total bummer.
That is really great input and perspective, Urbanized.
More and more this seems like the City was at least extremely naive and perhaps even negligent in the way all this was handled.
Thunder Alley had been growing steadily and this tension seemed to be building, yet there wasn't adequate security where a lot of people were walking and parking. People should never feel unsafe in those types of situations.
As for the free lots, those should be patrolled as well, Thunder games or not.
Simply put, it is the responsibility of the city to keep it's citizen's safe, particularly in public places.
The City has received a tremendous amount of revenue and other benefits from the Thunder and the people going downtown for these games. There also has to be a responsibility to manage these situations and clearly, that was not very well thought through.
Seems like plenty of people saw this coming and still eight people were shot last night. That's inexcusable. I assure you that more and/or better placed police would have nipped that incident in the bud and at the very least caught the people that did this.
I hope everyone injured fully recovers their health. But the city allowed this to happen and not only are people seriously hurt, a huge amount of goodwill and positive PR has been flushed down the toilet. The cost of that is incalculable. It also completely messed up what was becoming something very special for the community.
If we are going to be a true Big League City, we have to accept the responsibilities that come with it. I hate to point fingers, but this was very badly handled and the mayor, city council and the police department need to take responsibility.
Here's an interesting perspective posted on the Newsok site:
I had several friends who were there. Two were within 100 yards of the shots fired. Based on what they were saying, they noticed several groups of "thug wannabes" hanging out, not at "Thunder Alley," but at the Bricktown railroad bridge and into Bricktown. Like moths to a flame, they were drawn to the crowd, and the opportunity to posture and "bark" at people leaving the game, and at other little "rival" groups. This was not a shooting during celebration, as some news reports have it. This was a shooting that happened between people who came downtown looking for trouble, and saw a great gathering of people as a great place to try to start something.
redrunner 05-22-2012, 01:58 PM Show me any mention of race.
This is an idiot mentality.
Your original post and what you were implying was as transparent as the air. Why tip toe around it instead of owning up to it? And your "solution" was the most idiotic thing I've seen on here.
Roadhawg 05-22-2012, 02:10 PM Wasn't at TA during the game, but was at and in the arena a few hours before the game helping with setup and when I left, there was one of those police observation stations in place (like the ones at Penn Square), and police were manning it.
Good to know that... they may need a few more around the area for the next game. Does OKC police have a mounted division?
Good post Urbanized and I agree with Pete.
Lord Helmet 05-22-2012, 02:13 PM In a nutshell, I'm not sure Thunder Alley can continue in its present form. It was a great idea, really fun for a lot of people, and a great way to celebrate the team and the city. Unfortunately, it has been co-opted by people who are just in it for the free party and the opportunity to act up in a big crowd. These were exactly the same problems we had in Bricktown a few years ago. Free sounds great on the surface, but it can also cause unintended consequences.
I also think the free lots need to be controlled in some way. When we had the problems we had in Bricktown a few years ago with juveniles, gang activity, etc., much of it centered around the free lots, which become a hangout in their own right. Unfortunately it might mean closing them, charging, or something else. I'm not sure simply posting security is enough.
I think doing away with ALL free parking in Bricktown would go a long way towards discouraging undesirables from hanging out in TA...that and more of a police presence. Make all of the lots pay, including behind the Harkins and Toby Keith's. Those places (and others) can validate if they choose.
It seems the walk over to Bricktown is the trouble spot, especially where the crowd gets pinched down at the intersections to cross EKG and under that RR bridge.
Should be cops all along the way and patrolling anywhere people are parked.
LuccaBrasi 05-22-2012, 02:34 PM Good input and perspective, Urbanized.
I don't attend that many games, but was at last night's game where I went solo and met some business associates. Upon leaving and walking alone to where I parked in BT in one of the $20 lots adjacent to the tracks, I noticed several clusters of the crowd that appeared to be just hanging out. All of the fans that were leaving the game like myself, were filtering through these pockets of the crowd and I thought I sure was glad the wife and kids were not with me. I heard some racial comments amongst the crowd during that walk, and just felt tension in the air as I thought don't bump anyone and don't make too much eye contact, just get in the car and get outta here. A minutes later after pulling into into the string of cars on the street, the police helicopter changed loactions from TA and went east and soon followed police cars with lights and sirens......I knew something bad happened but did not know details until I got home to catch some game highlights on ESPN and NBATV where I saw the shootings reported.
I've seen several comments centered on how some of the gangs are big fans of the Lakers, much like maybe the Raiders, and that we'll be less likely see the same type crowd against the Spurs, or if we'd been playing anyone other than the Lakers. I wonder how much truth there is with that line of thought. It would be terrible to lose the ambiance of TA after TNT and Reggie Miller commented on it so highly.
The more I think about this, the more I think the City needs to respond ASAP.
Call a press conference, apologize for what happened, admit to not having done a good job, reveal a plan to provide much more security, promise to keep our city safe.
And not just for Thunder games. It seems clear issues in Bricktown have been building for a while and we already know there have been some other recent and awful incidences of violent crime.
Things last night can discourage people from coming downtown in general, and with all the investment and opportunity for the community in that area, something needs to be done NOW.
Drake 05-22-2012, 02:52 PM That is really great input and perspective, Urbanized.
More and more this seems like the City was at least extremely naive and perhaps even negligent in the way all this was handled.
Thunder Alley had been growing steadily and this tension seemed to be building, yet there wasn't adequate security where a lot of people were walking and parking. People should never feel unsafe in those types of situations.
As for the free lots, those should be patrolled as well, Thunder games or not.
Simply put, it is the responsibility of the city to keep it's citizen's safe, particularly in public places.
The City has received a tremendous amount of revenue and other benefits from the Thunder and the people going downtown for these games. There also has to be a responsibility to manage these situations and clearly, that was not very well thought through.
Seems like plenty of people saw this coming and still eight people were shot last night. That's inexcusable. I assure you that more and/or better placed police would have nipped that incident in the bud and at the very least caught the people that did this.
I hope everyone injured fully recovers their health. But the city allowed this to happen and not only are people seriously hurt, a huge amount of goodwill and positive PR has been flushed down the toilet. The cost of that is incalculable. It also completely messed up what was becoming something very special for the community.
If we are going to be a true Big League City, we have to accept the responsibilities that come with it. I hate to point fingers, but this was very badly handled and the mayor, city council and the police department need to take responsibility.
As I pointed out earlier, the OCPD was very aware of potential problems that Thunder Alley and having a team like the Lakers (similar to Oakland Raiders, Miami Hurricanes etc) were creating.
I'm sure from pure safety point of view, they would rather Thunder Alley didn't exist at all. But they are kind of between a rock and a hard place. They are excited for the city too. Thunder Alley looked great on national tv
They had their full gang unit (officers who recognize known gang members by sight) on duty, and other measures were taken to try and diffuse any problems. It wasn't going to take much last night to get arrested or detained. But there is only so much a few hundred cops can do in a crowd of 25K.
Guys like that did this shooting don't give a crap about law enforcement if they feel they are being disrespected. There is more honor to them to take care of the situation & go to prison rather than walk away.
I'm not going to say everything was done perfectly. I have no idea. But I promise they were not unaware that this might happen and were taking steps to stop it.
I'm sure there was a good presence at Thunder Alley and it sounds like there were no issues in that immediate area.
But lots of people are saying they felt unsafe on the way over and in the Bricktown area, which tells me there wasn't the proper police presence.
I've stated elsewhere that much bigger cities and with much bigger gang and violence problems have thriving and safe entertainment districts and sporting events. Think about all the cities that have downtown arenas and football stadiums.
This is not a new or in any way unique problem. The only problem is the city's failure to recognize a problem that had been building.
The first step is to admit there is a problem, then admit they need to find a better way of dealing with it. Then, it's a simple matter of applying what countless other cities have already learned.
Roadhawg 05-22-2012, 03:02 PM On Channel 9...
The Bricktown Association said Tuesday it takes the security of visitors very seriously, and is praying for the victims. The association said it's determined to keep the area safe:
"The incident that occurred following the Thunder game on May 21 is not a reflection on the safety and security of the Downtown or Bricktown areas, but rather an isolated event, and just happened to occur in Bricktown as the Thunder game let out and crowds were walking towards the parking area in lower Bricktown.
We will continue to work with OKCPD and support any and all efforts to deter this type of incident from happening again."
bucktalk 05-22-2012, 03:39 PM If there isn't a press conference with some sort of plan of action along with a very stern and authoritative tone then our mayor, police chief will have missed a perfect opportunity to actually 'lead' this city through this moment.
If there isn't a press conference with some sort of plan of action along with a very stern and authoritative tone then our mayor, police chief will have missed a perfect opportunity to actually 'lead' this city through this moment.
Precisely!
"We are concerned and sorry for what happened. Absolutely unexceptable. Warning to anyone that is coming down there looking for trouble: swift and strong action. Promise to make the city safe and allow our citizens to come together and celebrate our great civic pride. You have our word. All your civic leaders will join you next Sunday in Thunder Alley!"
Easy way to calm fears and get people back to feeling proud of OKC.
Step up Mayor Mick!
bucktalk 05-22-2012, 03:54 PM Precisely!
"We are concerned and sorry for what happened. Absolutely unexceptable. Warning to anyone that is coming down there looking for trouble: swift and strong action. Promise to make the city safe and allow our citizens to come together and celebrate our great civic pride. You have our word. All your civic leaders will join you next Sunday in Thunder Alley!"
Easy way to calm fears and get people back to feeling proud of OKC.
Step up Mayor Mick!
INDEED! Time won't be on his side for long if he doesn't act quickly!!
Urbanized 05-22-2012, 04:03 PM I've been continuing to give thought to the whole matter, and I think one or more of the following approaches might have some impact:
Control access to Thunder Alley. It is a great idea, and HAS been a great event. But it is apparently getting to be unmanageable and is having negative spillover effect on the area around it. Cordoning off the area and limiting the number of people there might be helpful.
Charge an admission fee or display your game ticket to get in. I know this would be unpopular, and that part of the charm of the event is that you and/or your family can come down and enjoy the evening & atmosphere for nothing. But that is apparently leading to unintended consequences. Perhaps a way to mitigate the public outcry if they started charging would be to donate all admission proceeds to a designated charity.
The Lower Bricktown (and especially Bass Pro) lots need to be tightly controlled in the hours before and during a major event like that. Maybe it includes closing the area south of the old I-40 alignment altogether, maybe it involves posted staff at the entrance ensuring those parking are there to frequent Lower Bricktown businesses, maybe it involves charging for parking, and/or maybe it involves aggressive police patrols in the lot (which could include hired off-duty officers). Either way, unlimited, uncotrolled free parking is a significant part of the equation, and always has been when these types of situations have happened in Bricktown.
I know these would all be popular, but neither are mass shootings. And if something is not done to limit the appeal/opportunity for roaming, trouble-making freeloaders, Bricktown and the act of actually going to Thunder games are themselves at risk of losing popularity, especially among people who are freaked out by downtown in general anyway, and who might not understand this to be the isolated event that it was.
adaniel 05-22-2012, 04:19 PM I've been continuing to give thought to the whole matter, and I think one or more of the following approaches might have some impact:
Control access to Thunder Alley. It is a great idea, and HAS been a great event. But it is apparently getting to be unmanageable and is having negative spillover effect on the area around it. Cordoning off the area and limiting the number of people there might be helpful.
Charge an admission fee or display your game ticket to get in. I know this would be unpopular, and that part of the charm of the event is that you and/or your family can come down and enjoy the evening & atmosphere for nothing. But that is apparently leading to unintended consequences. Perhaps a way to mitigate the public outcry if they started charging would be to donate all admission proceeds to a designated charity.
The Lower Bricktown (and especially Bass Pro) lots need to be tightly controlled in the hours before and during a major event like that. Maybe it includes closing the area south of the old I-40 alignment altogether, maybe it involves posted staff at the entrance ensuring those parking are there to frequent Lower Bricktown businesses, maybe it involves charging for parking, and/or maybe it involves aggressive police patrols in the lot (which could include hired off-duty officers). Either way, unlimited, uncotrolled free parking is a significant part of the equation, and always has been when these types of situations have happened in Bricktown.
I know these would all be popular, but neither are mass shootings. And if something is not done to limit the appeal/opportunity for roaming, trouble-making freeloaders, Bricktown and the act of actually going to Thunder games are themselves at risk of losing popularity, especially among people who are freaked out by downtown in general and might not understand this to be the isolated event that it was.
I actually think these are great ideas and wouldn't be as nearly as unpopular as you would think.
Add one more to that: Start ID'ing people, and make sure someone who is below 18 is with a parent or adult at least 25 years of age.
I was just thinking about the admissions fee myself. I really don't think that people in this town are that cheap that they couldn't pay $5 to come into Thunder Alley. Of course most gangbangers are chronic cheapskates.
In the future, should Thunder Alley continue it will help out immensely when the south entrance opens up, so you aren't dumping 18K people into a crowd of 5K.
We've got a week and a half at the earliest until the next home game; there are plenty of things that can be fixed and tweeked without getting rid of this or turning this into a gestapo patrolled pit.
Maynard 05-22-2012, 04:20 PM And, that's the end of 'Thunder Alley'.
BigBadBen 05-22-2012, 04:33 PM Your original post and what you were implying was as transparent as the air. Why tip toe around it instead of owning up to it? And your "solution" was the most idiotic thing I've seen on here.
So, are you a person of color with a huge chip on your shoulder, or a white man who agrees with society who tells him he is evil and needs to apologize for his race?
Thug behavior transcends skin color. Unfortunately, simpleminded lemmings cant see that.
adaniel 05-22-2012, 04:42 PM And, that's the end of 'Thunder Alley'.
No offense, but a link would be nice next time.
http://www.news9.com/story/18597571/okc-mayor-says-no-more-thunder-alley
Kind of think this is an overreaction, but it is what it is.
Lord Helmet 05-22-2012, 04:42 PM And, that's the end of 'Thunder Alley'.
Yep
http://www.news9.com/story/18597571/okc-mayor-says-no-more-thunder-alley
Mayor Says No More Thunder Alley (http://www.news9.com/story/18597571/okc-mayor-says-no-more-thunder-alley)
This is crazy.
Let's take something that has been awesome for the city and kill it completely instead of trying to figure out a way to make it safe.
Incredibly weak leadership and decision IMO.
Lord Helmet 05-22-2012, 04:43 PM Agreed. Taking the easy way out instead of actually addressing the issue.
KOCO just tweeted they have made an arrest in the shootings.
jn1780 05-22-2012, 04:45 PM And, that's the end of 'Thunder Alley'.
Which is ridiculous. Apparently if another shooting happens again they will just have to move the team back to Seattle.
In my opinion, the shooting has more to do with the fact that the Thunder were playing Las Angeles : gangbanger Mecca. Like moths to a flame.
The large percentage of people were going to Thunder Alley to watch the game and feel part of a bigger community. It was truly one of the coolest scenes in all of professional sports, as was noted by the national broadcast crew last night.
So, let's just kill it completely due to a random act by a very small group of people.
What's the point in investing in downtown and creating it as a place for people to come together?
How incredibly small-minded and silly.
Simply, it's the easy way out instead of trying to take something great and make it better.
Our leaders have failed us monumentally and twice: First, by not recognizing and properly addressing what everyone saw as a looming problem; then secondly, by completely bailing out when they didn't do their jobs correctly.
lindsey 05-22-2012, 04:50 PM So is it official that there will be no more TA?
ultimatesooner 05-22-2012, 04:51 PM http://www.okshooters.com/showthread.php?143164-Be-careful-in-thunder-alley.....-Shooting
this guy actually saw the shooting, said a cop was right there when it went down so its not strictly a police presence issue
So is it official that there will be no more TA?
Looks that way.
Twitter is blowing up with outrage over this decision.
Frankly, it just this just makes us look worse: We are so unsafe as a city we can't allow our citizens to gather downtown.
adaniel 05-22-2012, 04:54 PM Now its coming out the team will try and keep something similar going.
http://www.okshooters.com/showthread.php?143164-Be-careful-in-thunder-alley.....-Shooting
this guy actually saw the shooting, said a cop was right there when it went down so its not strictly a police presence issue
Even if this is true, the conflict reported before the shooting, so why didn't the police step in?
I saw other reports saying that there was not a police presence that far to the east; this happened in front of the ballpark.
Soonerman 05-22-2012, 04:56 PM SMH!! Come on Cornett keep it going.
adaniel 05-22-2012, 04:56 PM OK now according to FOX25 Thunder alley is NOT closed.
For FB users: http://www.facebook.com/foxokc/posts/10150958597890861
jedicurt 05-22-2012, 04:56 PM News9 at 4 was just saying that they were hearing from the Thunder that they are going to try and work with the city and law enforcement to see what changes need to be made to keep thunder alley, but that none of the changes would be able to be made in time to affect this season, if any agreement to changes could be made
Lord Helmet 05-22-2012, 04:57 PM I really wish the Mayor could get the message straight...seeing tweets that it's not cancelled now.
Let's hope cooler heads prevail and they find a way to may this work.
It's too special for OKC to throw this away.
BTW, Gary England of all people is ranting on Twitter about how bad a decision it would be to end TA.
Skyline 05-22-2012, 05:01 PM Twitter
Lance West @lancewest
Despite what you may have heard, Thunder Alley is NOT being cancelled. Thunder officials say "changes are likely".
Drake 05-22-2012, 05:04 PM I really wish the Mayor could get the message straight...seeing tweets that it's not cancelled now.
You blame the mayor for NEWS9 jumping the gun? Classic
We won't even have another home game for nine days so that should provide plenty of time to come up with new safety precautions.
Again, the Mayor needs to make a statement and soon.
He should have done it this morning.
The thing that is bothering me now is how much of an information void there still is. Some articles have stated that the police still have yet to talk to the victims. How does this happen? Now that no one knows what happened, people and the media are just filling up air space with speculation that is much harder to undo once its been put out there. And the fact that the bricktown association is saying this "just happened to happen in bricktown" is infuriating to me. The reality is that bricktown has had trouble with violence for a long time and the only reason this is getting national attention is because of the game and the success of Thunder Alley. Bricktown has a scape goat this time and it seems they are all about using it.
Thunder Alley may go away, but I can guarantee you violence in bricktown will not go away unless they change some things. They may want to take note that this is exactly the kind of thing that killed Deep Ellum in Dallas. It's going to be very fragile in the coming months and anything that happens, anything at all, will get 10 times the attention it did before. It's funny that the team seems to be working harder on reacting to the situation than Bricktown is, but Bricktown has much more to lose in the long run.
By all accounts, this has been welling up in Bricktown for a while.
Time to address the larger issue, not just Thunder Alley.
One Arrested In Connection With Bricktown Shooting After Thunder Game
Posted: May 22, 2012 2:46 PM PDT
Updated: May 22, 2012 2:56 PM PDT
By Havonnah Johnson, News 9 - bio | email
Witnesses were confused by how this started, but there was reportedly there was fight between a group of men and women, which apparently escalated.
Police say Rodney D. Hill has been arrested in this case.
Nine people were injured, including an expectant mother. In all eight people were shot, and according to EMSA, two of them were transported in critical condition.
Witnesses were confused by how this started, but there was reportedly there was fight between a group of men and women, which apparently escalated.
"I thought this was a part of a celebration, but people started running away and I knew something had happened and unfortunately people got shot," said a taxi driver who didn't want to be identified.
Police said the pregnant woman suffered blunt force trauma, but they aren't sure how. Authorities believe she was either kicked or punched.
Getting to the nine victims proved to be a task as police and paramedics weaved through crowds.
"I have never had anything where you have had that kind of people to deal with 5, 775 people you have no idea who is a patient and what is going on," Greg Ford of EMSA said.
Officials met Tuesday and closed Thunder Alley, but police say their work isn't done.
"We are in the process of trying to locate and review some surveillance in the area we know that there has been some you tube footage put up," Cpt. Dexter Nelson said.
Stay with News 9 and News9.com for the latest updates.
Urbanized 05-22-2012, 05:12 PM My knee-jerk reaction was to say it should end, but the more I think about it I think it could be redeemed. Like I said earlier in this thread (http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=30119&page=6&p=540114#post540114), I think controlling access to the event and to the free Lower Bricktown parking lots would help greatly. I know they might be unpopular moves, but surely not more unpopular than cancelling altogether and far better than doing nothing and potentially seeing the same re-occur.
Also, simply cancelling the event doesn't guarantee that people won't show up in the lots & still roam around Bricktown and the arena looking for trouble. I really do think that on event night it needs to be only people who have legitimate business down here, be it going to an event or frequenting an establishment. Ask management of various shopping malls in town how much they enjoy loitering, roving packs of teens who aren't there to do business with the stores. It's a very similar problem.
OKCTalker 05-22-2012, 05:14 PM According to NewsOK, the suspect has been identified as Rodney Hill, shown in a photograph to be a baby-faced young black male. According to OSCN, Rodney Dewon Hill turned 21 years old on May 14th, and was charged with: 1) "Criminal probable cause" on 1/4/2012; 2) Three felonies on 2/2/2012; 3) An additional unrelated felony on 3/21/2012; and 4) "Criminal miscellaneous" today. So, before turning 21 years of age and in the first three months of the year, Hill was charged with five crimes before opening fire in a crowd and wounding eight people. Sorry, ALLEGEDLY.
Urbanized, all that can be addressed through security and police.
Independent of those looking for trouble, people want to come together downtown and we should be working on ways to facilitate that, not limit it.
One idea is to move the watch party to inside the Cox Center but I think that would effectively kill it.
OKCTalker 05-22-2012, 05:24 PM Mick Cornett's silence - combined with conflicting information from official sources - is creating a vacuum that is being filled by confusion and fear. I just sent him an email, respectfully asking him to get off of his rear end and say something. If you'd like to do the same, send to mayor@okc.gov.
There's nine days until the next home game versus San Antonio. I hope that he'll say something quickly, and develop a good plan methodically.
Urbanized 05-22-2012, 05:25 PM Pete, when I say "only those who have legitimate business" that can include people attending Thunder Alley (with better control of access), people in restaurants and bars, people taking their kids to MBG, or heck, people jogging walking their dogs in Bricktown. I don't mean that everyone down here should be a paying customer at that moment. But all of those are legitimate uses.
Putting an ice chest in the trunk, hanging out in a parking lot drinking, or strolling around with no particular aim other than to cause trouble are NOT legitimate uses however, and I don't think we need to do anything to encourage that behavior or make it easy to do.
adaniel 05-22-2012, 05:33 PM Mick Cornett's silence - combined by conflicting information from official sources - is creating a vacuum that is being filled by confusion and fear. I just sent him an email, respectfully asking him to get off of his rear end and say something. If you'd like to do the same, send to mayor@okc.gov.
There's nine days until the next home game versus San Antonio. I hope that he'll say something quickly, and develop a good plan methodically.
I'm sorry, but what makes you think they are "sitting on their rears"? Blurting something out just to soothe the masses when he likely does not have all the facts himself will solve nothing. KWTV deciding to fart out a complete untruth is their problem, not Cornett's.
I really think everyone needs to take a chill pill. Some are really lending credence to the phrase "letting the criminals win." I would much rather have a well thought out plan that balances everyone's needs and concerns than have our local officials do backflips for the media. No rush folks. Their biggest concern right now should be arresting those who are responsible.
Urbanized, I agree.
BTW, it sounds like the Mayor's original quote was "Thunder Alley is over as we know it", which is why there have been conflicting reports. It also sounds ominous.
If that's the case, I'll go back to my previous statements about weak leadership and taking the easy way out.
BoulderSooner 05-22-2012, 05:48 PM "the manner in which thunder alley has taken place and continued to grow can not continue".
I don't think that means its dead
iMAX386 05-22-2012, 05:49 PM Even if TA is there in some form come game 3 it will be interesting to see how many people actually show up. I'm a little spooked about going now. I hate that that's the case, but I'm sure I'm not the only one with that sentiment.
Bet it's gonna take a big attendance hit.
Urbanized 05-22-2012, 05:51 PM Frankly, I think an attendance hit OUTSIDE the arena wouldn't be terrible. If something like this happened again, the concern would be an attendance hit INSIDE the arena (or in downtown in general).
Please keep this violence in perspective (not that the general public will).
By all accounts, this all started with some sort of confrontation between two groups of people.
It's very simple: if someone tries to engage you in an unwanted way, act like you don't hear them and keep moving. Do not engage.
Even in the most dangerous neighborhoods, this works. I can attest after working with gang members in some of the worst areas of Los Angeles.
adaniel 05-22-2012, 06:02 PM I've heard that the pre game stuff will likely be unaffected, but the viewing party in front of the big screen is in jeopardy and they will decide in the next 24 hours what to do.
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