Deep Deuce
Housing



no



Address: NE 3rd & Oklahoma (http://goo.gl/maps/jzLg7)
Status: partially complete
Owner: Garret & Co.
Cost:
Architect: TAP Architecture
Start Date:
Finish Date: 2008
Contractor:
Height in Feet / Floors:
Sq. Feet:
Acreage:
Other: 20 units built, another 25 planned

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/brownstoneswiki1.jpg


Information & Latest News
Links
Sales & Ownership (http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/SubdivSearchSalesDate.asp?SUBNO=20859)
Property website (http://reinventokc.com/)
Downtown Housing Summary
Urban Project Summary
Gallery

Does anyone know if anything is happening at the Brownstones at Maywood Park? It is my understanding that many (if not most) of the unsold units are shell space inside. There appear to be ten listed for sale, ranging from $575,000 - $700,000. I realize there has been some price reductions, but these things have been vacant for many years. Do the owners honestly believe that a high-end buyer is going to pay top dollar (>$200/SF) for a shell building that has been setting vacant for three years? At some point the owner is going to realize he doesn't set the market and reduce the prices so that they can sell. I love that design! Wish there were more attached units in OKC - especially more affordable ones!

Two Brownstones have sold within the last few month. Two more have recently been moved into and I'm not sure if they're sold or rented. I suspect at least one is a rental, as the person living there is unsure of their future in Oklahoma City right now. Two are being finished out right now by Bill Gumerson. I'm not sure if either one of them is sold, or if they're finishing them out because they think they'll sell better. There are six completely unfinished Brownstones total. The rest are either owned, lived in or finished out. The sale prices are for a finished out townhouse. If you buy an unfinished one, you have allowances to finish out the house. You can go above the allowances, but then the price increases.

The reason they're not more affordable is because of the construction costs. They're solid concrete and rebar construction, they have high end windows, slate roofs and copper guttering. The four story houses have elevators, three full baths and two half baths and the finishing allowances are high. I suppose someone could buy an unfinished one and negotiate for lower finishing costs to keep the prices lower, but the exterior construction is expensive to begin with.

There are cost savings, however, in terms of heat and air utility costs, which are incredibly low due to the concrete construction. I pay about $150 a month for electricity, and last summer during the heat wave I didn't even have to turn the air conditioning on on the bottom two floors. They stay at about 65 degrees in the summer naturally and about 70 in the winter.

I have some questions for you, Betts:

1) How is the train noise and transference noise from unit to unit? Does the construction help mitigate these things? I mean, I like my movies and music to boom, but would not want to be the ire of my neighbors. :)

2) Is there any kind of area maintenance fee? If so, does it cover things like landscaping, care, and common area improvements?

3) On the same note, is there a homeowner association specific to the brownstones to address security, improvements, and guidelines?

4) Is there some sort of review committee that oversees and reviews property modifications either inside or outside?

Thanks in advance.

So, have they sold anymore Brownstones? Are they going to build more and finish out their land? How many are unsold/empty? How many are still unfinished? I would love to see them finish the project and build out the rest of their land and complete their block or two.

County Assessor site shows 8 of 20 sold, none in 2012 and 3 in 2011.

So, have they sold anymore Brownstones? Are they going to build more and finish out their land? How many are unsold/empty? How many are still unfinished? I would love to see them finish the project and build out the rest of their land and complete their block or two.

I don't think they'll build any more unless they sell more of these. There are four 25' lots for sale. I was told that Bradshaw would build more townhouses on these lots if they don't sell, including between the Maywood Apartments and the Brownstones, although who knows! Bradshaw is finishing out two right now on the south side of the street, and he's still got three more that are framed only. Garrett has three unfinished, framed only, on the north side, and I was told he's considering finishing them too. I think I'm the only person who bought one that was framed only. Personally, I liked being able to finish mine exactly as I wanted. I added and changed some things. But I think most people can't visualize and they're figuring that out and finishing them, because almost all the finished ones have sold. I still think the problem with these is that they require a jumbo mortgage, and at least a couple of years ago the jumbos required a 20 to 30% downpayment. They got hurt badly by the mortgage crisis. There is no shortage of lookers. But buying is something else. However, with the increased popularity of living downtown and changes in attitudes of people who would never have considered it a few years ago, I expect the townhouses to fill up over the next few years, especially if they finish them out. I'd like to see the street finished.

I know people who live in one of the 4 story ones. Going inside these things is amazing. I saw no shortage of high quality workmanship. The top "entertainment" floor is simply a dream. Tiled patio? YES PLEASE!


My only complaint would be the elevator is a tad gimmicky, but it works if you have someone with a disability or ever become disabled due to injury etc; because there is definitely no shortage of stairs in there! Has to be a great workout, lol. I would like to see more of these sold and new ones built, but like the other poster has said - the downtown living mentality has to become more widespread.

The kitchens are on the 2nd or 3rd level, so having an elevator is nice to haul groceries up

They're very similar to elevators in small hotels in London. My elevator is quite pedestrian, but you can get the folding brass doors and pretty much customize the interiors any way you want. Almost all the townhouses do have the kitchen on the 2nd floor so it is great for groceries. It's located right by the door in from the garage so you can easily transfer groceries from your car to the elevator. I have a shorter walk with them than I did in my last house where the kitchen and garage were on the same floor.

Are there any plans to touch up the ends of the buildings where the paint is peeling away and revealing the styrofoam block underneath? I understand that the original idea was that more units would be built onto the ends and that the paint was a temporary measure to cover up the foam block, but years later it has become pretty shabby-looking. Since the brownstones unfortunately appear to some extent at this point to be a failed (or at the very best marginal) concept for that neighborhood - and the building of more unlikely - perhaps there could be some new and more durable material applied?

I've suggested that to the owners multiple times, without any response. I think they're foolish, as I noticed the Hill had no sales of any significance while they were unfinished. It wasn't until all flapping tar paper was covered, railings were placed, etc, that people started buying in greater number. I've also suggested that they do additional brownstones with wood framing instead of build block, and spend less on interiors so they can lower the price point. While you appreciate the noise muffling and the incredible savings on utilities once you've lived in a build block home, most people would rather either save money or get flashier things for their money. The biggest townhouses at the Hill are pricier than the Brownstones, and they're wood framed and don't even have solid brick exteriors, which is a case in point.

However, I disagree that they are a failed concept for the neighborhood. They were finishing up right as the housing recession hit and I think the developers anticipated more interest in downtown living at that point in time than was present. Then, the difficulty of getting a jumbo mortgage created a huge problem for those who wanted to buy. But, attitudes are changing. I still predict that we'll find the opposite to be true. We'll have built so much rental housing that when the people living in the rentals are financially secure enough to buy, there won't be enough for sale housing downtown for them to purchase. Prices could skyrocket at that point in time. Or, we'll get a real push to develop housing in Core to Shore to accomodate demand.

Betts, do you have a best guess or know for a fact what percentage of the purchase price goes towards the allowance? I.e. the 2300 sq. ft. unit at 17 NE 3rd St. is for sale for $615,000. How much of that do you think is budgeted towards finishing out the shell and how much of it is for the shell itself?

Thanks.

Lots or recent movement on this development and I'm hearing they are down to one unit.

As has been discussed elsewhere, there are some creative ideas for the remaining lots and with these new sales hopefully we'll see some movement soon.


Deep Deuce is on fire!

Soon there will be no more room in Deep Deuce...so whats the next residential hotbed area? West Park?

Soon there will be no more room in Deep Deuce...so whats the next residential hotbed area? West Park?

Midtown?

Auto Alley and Midtown should be adding more residential soon.

SoSA. Or, at least that's where I'd be looking for single family housing. There's still a fair amount of land off Oklahoma heading north too. It's hard to know exactly how many rental units are really needed. But if they get overbuilt the older developments like the Deep Deuce Apartments may start having trouble getting good tenants. That right when I'd condominiumize them. Demand for for sale housing is only going to increase, and you could easily price them as entry level housing.

I have some questions for you, Betts:

1) How is the train noise and transference noise from unit to unit? Does the construction help mitigate these things? I mean, I like my movies and music to boom, but would not want to be the ire of my neighbors. :)

2) Is there any kind of area maintenance fee? If so, does it cover things like landscaping, care, and common area improvements?W

3) On the same note, is there a homeowner association specific to the brownstones to address security, improvements, and guidelines?

4) Is there some sort of review committee that oversees and reviews property modifications either inside or outside?

Thanks in advance.

Sorry, I never saw this back when it was written. I noticed the train noise the first week I lived there. After that, I only notice it if I'm outside and it's a particularly noisy train. It's surprising how much variation in horn blowing there is. I have never had train noise noticeable over media sound. The only sound I've ever heard from my neighbors was when they were finishing out the unit and were using air hammers and drills. We have 8" thick concrete walls which is likely a factor.

There is a homeowner's association and fees have been extremely inexpensive. However the owners are taking over control of it and I think we'll choose to pay more to improve landscaping and maintenance. How much it increases is still uncertain.

I assume there is a design review process for the lots for sale. To my knowledge the only lots definitely available are the three just east of the Untitled Arts Space.

Hope that helps.

With individual lots for sale, I think we will some really cool stuff like SOSA style.

SoSA. Or, at least that's where I'd be looking for single family housing. There's still a fair amount of land off Oklahoma heading north too. It's hard to know exactly how many rental units are really needed. But if they get overbuilt the older developments like the Deep Deuce Apartments may start having trouble getting good tenants. That right when I'd condominiumize them. Demand for for sale housing is only going to increase, and you could easily price them as entry level housing.

I think this is exactly how we will get affordable for-sale housing in downtown

Hey I've been researching building one of these homes in Hub cap alley. I happened upon a R-4 zoned lot. I talked with the Maywood park ICF builder and they quoted me 65k for the shell of the smaller model. The details are below. I'm currently working on my design and will have a better estimate in a few months. However, If I build most of it myself I estimated the whole 3000ish sq foot home would cost around 120k excluding the land. Note very rough estimates.


I am making some assumptions as to the height between floor systems and window sizes, and have assumed that the floors will be wooden floor joist covered with OSB, and that the project is located within a 30 mile radius of downtown OKC. My number includes the following items, including all material and labor to install:
a. Footing
b. Concrete basement floor
c. ICF walls for a 3 story building as drawn
d. Simpson ledge anchors
e. Simpson anchors
f. All #3, #4 and #5 rebar and 3500 psi concrete
Excludes excavation, framing and or framing materials, exterior finishes, roofing system, windows and doors, MEPs

$65,983.00

jamesben - you are the person I have been wanting to hear from! Is your quote for a townhouse design or another type of structure. I am very interested in ICF construction on a downtown lot eventually. I will be very interested in following your progress. I think there must be a way to achieve quality construction as in the Maywood Brownstones for a lower cost but I currently do not possess the knowledge to know for sure. Good luck on your project.

I sent the builder the exact floor plan of the smaller Maywood Design View Floorplan :: The Brownstones at Maywood Park (http://www.reinventokc.com/view_floorplan.asp?model=shartel) . I'm trying to figure out what architecture to use. The property is North of Capitol hill. It's hard for me to recognize a common architecture. Personally, I really like 19th and 20th century revivals or bungalow architecture. So right now it could look like a brownstone or something like the following Waterfront Villa - Coastal Living | Coastal Living House Plans (http://coastallivinghouseplans.com/plans/SL1452). It also depends on how many I decide to build. I'm only allowed a two family residence on my property(sq foot limits). I plan on researching and trying to organize an architectural plan for this area before building.

If I build soon it will be the first new home in the area in over 50 years. Honestly the area isn't going to be "nice" for at least 20 years, assuming a steady economy ha. However, I really like the potential of the area. I think the price and future amenities are worth the risk. (Just justifying myself ha..I'm young)

Over the next 20 years a common architectural vision will be a must for appreciating affordable housing in this area.

Very interesting indeed. We may need to start calling you a "southside pioneer". In the next year or so I am going to start looking for a suitable lot somewhere downtown. Hopefully I will come across one as you have.

jamesben - you are the person I have been wanting to hear from! Is your quote for a townhouse design or another type of structure. I am very interested in ICF construction on a downtown lot eventually. I will be very interested in following your progress. I think there must be a way to achieve quality construction as in the Maywood Brownstones for a lower cost but I currently do not possess the knowledge to know for sure. Good luck on your project.

You all will love, love, love ICF. Personally, I wouldn't consider building anything else now that I've lived in a home built from it. Energy efficiency is truly amazing, even in a climate like ours. And, no termite worries (I do have a termite phobia, I'll admit).

So, have they sold anymore Brownstones? Are they going to build more and finish out their land? How many are unsold/empty? How many are still unfinished? I would love to see them finish the project and build out the rest of their land and complete their block or two.

Two new sold signs are out tonight on the two unfinished brownstones just west of me. Every finished brownstone is occupied and I believe there are a total of six unfinished. One of those six is being finished out right now. There may be other sales pending. I came to our homeowners meeting late last night so missed all the information about sales. I don't think it will be long before they're all occupied.

I heard a rumor a couple Thunder players may be behind the recent sales...

:gossip:

Two new sold signs are out tonight on the two unfinished brownstones just west of me. Every finished brownstone is occupied and I believe there are a total of six unfinished. One of those six is being finished out right now. There may be other sales pending. I came to our homeowners meeting late last night so missed all the information about sales. I don't think it will be long before they're all occupied.

I posted this reply in another thread, but it seems appropriate here...

My understanding is that the developers have come up with some creative plans that will utilize the space in question as for sale housing. They will be more “flat” like in design but blend in architecturally with the Brownstones. I will report back after I have seen the plans.

To those that have waited for the right time to buy a Brownstone, it is now. There are few left and likely will not be replicated, except on a custom build basis. Come March, we will have been in ours for four years and couldn’t be happier. The quality of construction is impeccable and I would think cost in the neighborhood of $300/sq. ft. to build today.

Disclaimer; I am not associated with the developers or have any financial stake in the development (other than my personal residence). I can though, spot quality when I see it. We effectively live in a concrete bunker, clad in brick and environmentally friendly. Utility costs are shockingly low and there is not a square inch of Masonite siding that needs to be painted, and/or replaced every few years when it comes off in the wind.

I heard a rumor a couple Thunder players may be behind the recent sales...

:gossip:

Shhh, we protect our secret neighbors :):)

Shhh, we protect our secret neighbors :):)

C'mon, everyone knows Westbrook lives there, haven't you seen the commercial he shot at "his house"? Russell Westbrook Ozarka commercial - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fgtnTj9HsI)

Seeing the pic in post #385 provided in the Maywood Apartments thread, shown here:

Maywood Apartments (NE 4th & Oklahoma) - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Maywood+Apartments+NE+4th+and+O klahoma&page=20#post604737)

I wonder (and Betts I'm looking for your answer) why more Brownstones aren't built. The answer may have already been discussed but how does Maywood Phase I get built before more Brownstones are built? Are they all full? I see in that green space on the north and west property of the Brownstones that there is a sign pegged in the grass. Are they trying to get more tentative residents so they can build there? Also, what about the lots on the northern most side of the property that would be between the back alleyway and Phase I and II of Maywoods..is that ever going to be utilized or will it be Petville?

C'mon, everyone knows Westbrook lives there, haven't you seen the commercial he shot at "his house"? Russell Westbrook Ozarka commercial - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fgtnTj9HsI)

Westbrook doesn't live there. That was shot in the model.

Seeing the pic in post #385 provided in the Maywood Apartments thread, shown here:

Maywood Apartments (NE 4th & Oklahoma) - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Maywood+Apartments+NE+4th+and+O klahoma&page=20#post604737)

I wonder (and Betts I'm looking for your answer) why more Brownstones aren't built. The answer may have already been discussed but how does Maywood Phase I get built before more Brownstones are built? Are they all full? I see in that green space on the north and west property of the Brownstones that there is a sign pegged in the grass. Are they trying to get more tentative residents so they can build there? Also, what about the lots on the northern most side of the property that would be between the back alleyway and Phase I and II of Maywoods..is that ever going to be utilized or will it be Petville?

I was not under the impression that Maywood Apts. and the Brownstones were the same developer. From the information in the wikis, they are not.

Also not to answer for Betts, but I'm pretty sure the Brownstones are not all sold (some aren't even built out inside because of the sales plan they originally had).

I was not under the impression that Maywood Apts. and the Brownstones were the same developer. From the information in the wikis, they are not.

Also not to answer for Betts, but I'm pretty sure the Brownstones are not all sold (some aren't even built out inside because of the sales plan they originally had).

I never said anything about same developer but thank you for your answer.

The Maywood Apartments and the Brownstones have the same developer. Every finished Brownstone has an occupant and the 3 unfinished ones adjacent to me have either sold or are under contract. There are plans to build everywhere there's grass to the west and north of the existing Brownstones. We're supposed to see the plans within a month. They're planning on building 4 story buildings there that are divided into flats but will look like Brownstones from the outside. And I'm guessing that you could buy all floors and have the entire townhouse if you should so choose.

^^like

The Maywood Apartments and the Brownstones have the same developer. Every finished Brownstone has an occupant and the 3 unfinished ones adjacent to me have either sold or are under contract. There are plans to build everywhere there's grass to the west and north of the existing Brownstones. We're supposed to see the plans within a month. They're planning on building 4 story buildings there that are divided into flats but will look like Brownstones from the outside. And I'm guessing that you could buy all floors and have the entire townhouse if you should so choose.

Wow, score another that's moving forward pretty quickly

Accela Citizen Access (http://okc.gov/Access/Cap/CapDetail.aspx?Module=Permits&TabName=Permits&capID1=13BRE&capID2=00000&capID3=01136&agencyCode=OKC&IsToShowInspection=)

15 NE 3. They are seeking permission to "Complete". That would imply building out a shell, correct? The address has me confused as I think 15 NE 3 is an empty lot.

Under Application Information it lists the property as a 3-story condo of 2,795 square feet.

It's definitely a finish-out of one of the Brownstones.

15 is the shell of one of the Brownstones and the people who bought it are finishing it out. They also bought the lot immediately adjacent to their Brownstone too, though, and I think they may put an addition on there.

15 is the shell of one of the Brownstones and the people who bought it are finishing it out. They also bought the lot immediately adjacent to their Brownstone too, though, and I think they may put an addition on there.

Yes, $190K building permit today to build an addition.

This is the unit on the far west end on the north side of the street.

Should mean saying goodbye to the ugly western-facing wall. At least one of them.

Yes, and I believe the Maywood Flats will be built reasonably soon. There were some architectural issues that are being hashed out. Once it is under roof, the southwest ugly wall will be gone. I'm not sure what is planned for the NE one, as I believe it is under different ownership than any of the others.

Perhaps we can get creative and paint the unfinished sides?

Same shape:

http://sunnylol.com/images/2012/December/18/50d089d4ecf71.jpg

Couple of new photos from catch22.

First one is on the north side of 3rd and is an expansion of the one unit on the far west end:

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/5769d1389025759-brownstones-maywood-park-brownstones1214a.jpg


Second is on the south side of 3rd, which looks like clearing for Maywood Park Flats:

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/5770d1389025773-brownstones-maywood-park-brownstones1214b.jpg

Are there going to be anymore built to the east of the eastern most Brownstones? I know the Maywood apartments will be north of that, but then I feel like there is a good gap between the Brownstones and Walnut Avenue.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2859/11802374455_7ff3160431_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77483833@N04/11802374455/)
East Downtown OKC (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77483833@N04/11802374455/) by lazio85 (http://www.flickr.com/people/77483833@N04/), on Flickr

How long have the gates been up for all the alleys?

The gates to the alleys aren't all up yet, but they've been working on them for the past week or so. I suspect we'll know more about the Maywood Flats within a month. The house that has the single story addition ( and will have a rooftop garden/deck) will brick its end when they brick the addition. I don't know what's going on with the NE unfinished end as apparently the two adjacent lots have a different owner.

The gates to the alleys aren't all up yet, but they've been working on them for the past week or so. I suspect we'll know more about the Maywood Flats within a month. The house that has the single story addition ( and will have a rooftop garden/deck) will brick its end when they brick the addition. I don't know what's going on with the NE unfinished end as apparently the two adjacent lots have a different owner.

I spoke to the guy doing the roof on the far NE unit, the owners told him that the lots were sold and two more brownstones are planned. I hope not, thats the closest patch of grass for my dog.

Yes, those lots are definitely sold. I hadn't heard they were building brownstones. And yes, the dog friendly grass is diminishing rapidly.

Disregard

:ohno:

So are we now building one story additions bc more 2-3 story Brownstones aren't gonna happen?

I thought 3 stories was the minimum for new buildings and thus why 700 W. Sheridan had an issue getting a permit initially? Is that only within certain boundaries? I'm sure I don't understand the rule, someone please clarify....

This is a shame. So they are doing one-story instead of 3-story in this development going forward? Why?

I don't think so, that's why I asked for clarification.

The owner of the far NW Brownstone bought the neighboring lot to build his addition. The fact that it is only 1-story tall is just personal choice.

There is still talk of building the 4-story Flats, so I don't believe that there are any new height requirements in Maywood.

The owner of the far NW Brownstone bought the neighboring lot to build his addition. The fact that it is only 1-story tall is just personal choice.

There is still talk of building the 4-story Flats, so I don't believe that there are any new height requirements in Maywood.

Correct. The addition is just a one story extension of the 3 story unit to the east of it. I don't think any plans have been submitted for the lots to the west of that or the lots on the far east end.

Yes, those lots are definitely sold. I hadn't heard they were building brownstones. And yes, the dog friendly grass is diminishing rapidly.

The best dog potty for apartment or condo living - Urban Potty (http://www.urbanpotty.com/)

Jck8ESByUSM