I currently live in Charlotte, North Carolina and while I love the city, the economy here is extremely poor. I have been here three years and have been unable to find quality employment in my field. I am stuck in a dead-end job that is making me pure miserable and I am reaching a point where I am about to cut and run for greener pastures.

I am considering Oklahoma City because of its economy and its much closer to my family in Eastern Oklahoma. I lived in OKC during middle and high school and moved away my senior year so I have somewhat of a familiarity with the area. I am very impressed by the strides the city has made in the past couple decades and even moreso with what appears to have changed since I left. I do realize OKC is a smaller city so there will be some sacrifices, but I am hoping OKC can offer a lifestyle fairly close to what I am used to in Charlotte.

How is the dining/nightlife in downtown OKC? How does Bricktown compare to the Epicentre in Charlotte? Are there trendy/historic arts districts that can be somewhat comparable to Dilworth or NoDa in Charlotte, even on a smaller scale?

How bad are grocery stores really? Here in Charlotte, we have Harris Teeter which is very nice and has a lot of specialty selection. I've heard OKC is lacking in this area, but have heard Crest Foods is alright.

How restrictive is the 3.2 beer laws? I love fine beers and wines and have heard many brewers and wineries won't sell in Oklahoma period because of these laws. How is the selection in the liquor stores compared to other states?

Sushi is my all-time favorite cuisine. I've heard Oklahoma doesn't have very good sushi. Is there any good places in OKC? This may sound small but its a make or break deal for me.

Overall, how would you compare OKC today to other mid-sized cities in this country?

One more thing, does anybody have any tips on an out-of-state job search? I will have the means to move to Oklahoma and stay with my family until I find employment around the end of the year but I would prefer to have a job before I move if possible and just go straight to OKC. My field is IT/Desktop Support.

Thanks for any replies!

I'd suggest coming for a visit, things have changed in the past 15 years, for the better I might say. I'm in IT, and there is quite a bit going on.

Stay away, the oil and natural gas bubble is in the process of crashing (yet again) and thousands of people are getting ready to be laid off.


I'm not being a jerk, but look at the price of Nat Gas at the moment (rapidly falling to the lowest point in 10-15 years), Chesapeake huge and numerous problems, and the tumbling price of crude oil. Our low unemployment is mostly due to extreme nat gas exploration and drilling driven by Chesapeake egos and its going to be a spectacular implosion.

I currently live in Charlotte, North Carolina and while I love the city, the economy here is extremely poor. I have been here three years and have been unable to find quality employment in my field. I am stuck in a dead-end job that is making me pure miserable and I am reaching a point where I am about to cut and run for greener pastures.

I am considering Oklahoma City because of its economy and its much closer to my family in Eastern Oklahoma. I lived in OKC during middle and high school and moved away my senior year so I have somewhat of a familiarity with the area. I am very impressed by the strides the city has made in the past couple decades and even moreso with what appears to have changed since I left. I do realize OKC is a smaller city so there will be some sacrifices, but I am hoping OKC can offer a lifestyle fairly close to what I am used to in Charlotte.

How is the dining/nightlife in downtown OKC? How does Bricktown compare to the Epicentre in Charlotte? Are there trendy/historic arts districts that can be somewhat comparable to Dilworth or NoDa in Charlotte, even on a smaller scale?

How bad are grocery stores really? Here in Charlotte, we have Harris Teeter which is very nice and has a lot of specialty selection. I've heard OKC is lacking in this area, but have heard Crest Foods is alright.

How restrictive is the 3.2 beer laws? I love fine beers and wines and have heard many brewers and wineries won't sell in Oklahoma period because of these laws. How is the selection in the liquor stores compared to other states?

Sushi is my all-time favorite cuisine. I've heard Oklahoma doesn't have very good sushi. Is there any good places in OKC? This may sound small but its a make or break deal for me.

Overall, how would you compare OKC today to other mid-sized cities in this country?

One more thing, does anybody have any tips on an out-of-state job search? I will have the means to move to Oklahoma and stay with my family until I find employment around the end of the year but I would prefer to have a job before I move if possible and just go straight to OKC. My field is IT/Desktop Support.

Thanks for any replies!

How does Bricktown compare to Epicenter? Lower Bricktown (south of Reno) is probably a poorly-designed and/or slightly suburban version of Epicenter. Actual Bricktown can't be compared to Epicenter. Bricktown is an urban district, it is made of old buildings, a canal, brick-paved streets, and will have modern streetcar (a la light rail) quite soon. Epicenter IMO is a single development that looks like a mall food court from outer space just landed in Charlotte's uptown area. The sushi there is probably better than here, though. Sushi Neko on Western Ave is good, though.

I don't know what you're looking for in night life, but if you're looking to get away from vapid bleach-blond girls (and I guess guys too), the sorority scene, teenagers whose parents just dropped them off, and dudes whose idea of a night out is looking for a fight, I'd stay away from Bricktown. I can't think of a single place I'd consider classy that is located in Bricktown... oh wait, maybe Whiskey Chicks. There are countless night life areas that have Bricktown beat (most of us locals scoff at Bricktown anymore). Like Western Ave.

I too am obsessed with craft beers, and the only two beers that I am missing out on in Oklahoma are Yuengling (which is only available in 17 states anyway) and O'Dell's. There are a number of good "upscale" watering holes around downtown to go to after work and you'd be hard-pressed to even find Bud, although maybe somewhere. I seem to get by alright with my own prohibition on 3.2, but when I'm in Oklahoma I have to remember that Byron's or [insert liquor mafia of choice] closes at 9 and isn't open on Sundays because that is the holy day. At least our religious right aren't making near as many headlines as their NC counterpart lately...

I think the main difference between our urban areas and Charlotte's is that ours are older and have a grittier vibe. I think OKC's become just as urban as Charlotte, and urban living will soon be just as readily available when the current wave of 1000+ units come to fruition (like Level, Edge, individual MidtownRenaissance projects, etc.), it's just that Charlotte is much newer and glitzier IMO. Downtown might have a hundred new restaurants (it's really just become a massive restaurant district) but almost every one of them is in a renovated historic building. Charlotte just didn't have many historic buildings to renovate.

Sushi is your make or break decision point?

bchris - Come visit and I think you'll find everything you're looking for.

With a background in IT, you should find job offers. Get out the resumes now.

I can't help with dining/nightlife recommendations until I know more about your interests, age, etc. Troll this site for what you need, and sift Urbanspoon for some ideas.

We've been a grocery desert for many years, but Sunflower Market is adding locations and Whole Foods' first site is way above expectations. Their second is being planned now.

You won't find every beer or wine on our shelves - or on ANY city's shelves for that matter - but you'll find a more than satisfactory variety of everything from microbrews to exceptional wines. Same goes for what you'll find in the bars.

Sushi - check the restaurants thread here, but Sushi Nekko would be my suggestion.

Finally, our economy is in the top five in the US by almost any measure. Nat gas prices are extraordinarily low - think of a bubble in reverse - but prices will likely trend up in the fall. CHK could get clobbered hard and experience layoffs in the short-term due to excessive spending and lack of responsible governance, but their underlying assets support a continuation of the company and discourage raiding from outside. LIFO would discourage me from recommending that you apply there right now.

Glad to have you back - let us know how your visit goes!

Stay away, the oil and natural gas bubble is in the process of crashing (yet again) and thousands of people are getting ready to be laid off.


I'm not being a jerk, but look at the price of Nat Gas at the moment (rapidly falling to the lowest point in 10-15 years), Chesapeake huge and numerous problems, and the tumbling price of crude oil. Our low unemployment is mostly due to extreme nat gas exploration and drilling driven by Chesapeake egos and its going to be a spectacular implosion.

I have seen conflicting information regarding this. Worst case scenario could be very bad for OKC, very similar to what happened here in Charlotte when Wachovia was bought by Wells Fargo. Charlotte went from being touted as "recession proof" to an economic disaster overnight from which the city is struggling to recover. That said, how likely is such a scenario?


Sushi is your make or break decision point?

Not necessarily, but its a factor along with the many other things I mentioned. Maybe I shouldn't have said make or break, but it is important to me. The real make or break decision point is the economy and whether I can find a job.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention groceries, but basically what OKCTalker said about Sunflower and Whole Foods, and actually that has forced the locals to really step it up. Crest has a very impressive new grocery store at SW104/May and the Buy For Less family just built this upscale grocery store in Edmond:
http://www.npaper-wehaa.com/pub-files/12293670174946a6e9878be/pub/OKCBiz-07-01-2011_13082406604dfa2b14a1291/lib/13082469404dfa439c2eeee.jpg

So yeah, the upscale grocery market has emerged (conversely, Walmart's market share has really taken a beating lately) in significant and tangible ways for shoppers on the south side, north side, and Edmond. Downtown grocery markets are being planned (Native Roots is going into Deep Deuce). Before Whole Foods, a number of local grocery markets emerged like Forward Foods and Native Roots, although Crescent Market bit the dust due to leasing issues at Nichols Hills Plaza (may move downtown).

There are also a number of big farmer's markets. There's a huge downtown farmer's market that goes on at St. Anthony Hospital, several smaller ones around the city, and Edmond also has a permanent farmer's market pavilion in their downtown area.

These are good epicurean times in OKC.

I have seen conflicting information regarding this. Worst case scenario could be very bad for OKC, very similar to what happened here in Charlotte when Wachovia was bought by Wells Fargo. Charlotte went from being touted as "recession proof" to an economic disaster overnight from which the city is struggling to recover. That said, how likely is such a scenario?

It's not very likely. Basically what is happening here right now is that a lot of us are freaking out because our largest private employer (Chesapeake) is finally admitting they have some issues. Its long-time Chairman and CEO, a local icon if you will, was implicated in a number of scandals (this is the guy who was the highest paid CEO in America). I'm at the point where I forget which one was to a tune of $1.2 billion in bizarre shady under the table financing schemes, and which one was only $200 mil. So Aubrey was forced to resign as Chairman and they'll go find an independent dude who can finally lead the company, which is a shame because Aubrey was a visionary. He also engendered himself to the community by putting up the money behind the Thunder and you could also say just by being him.

So it was a very bad week for Aubrey McClendon, but Chesapeake the energy giant is going nowhere. I myself was kind of freaking out and jumping to conclusions about CHK going under, a litany of hypothetical scenarios. I guess it's as likely as Walmart going under, which could happen, but not very likely. Chesapeake is also just one company..other booming oil and gas giants include Devon (you may have noticed their new facility) and Chaparral, and SandRidge and Continental are both cracking the 1000+ tier in terms of HQ employees.

Over 1 in 5 jobs in OKC are government jobs. The bottom line is that this gives us an unparalleled level of stability during hard economic times. That's why it's no coincidence that us and DC have constantly tied each other for the lowest unemployment rates since the economy got bad.

I love Park Harvey Sushi. There has been a huge growth in pretty good sushi places lately.

As far as cool urban districts, OKC is growing some now. 16th Street Plaza District is coming along, Western is alright, 9th street on Automobile Alley is coming along. This is definitely an area of weakness for OKC when compared even to cities like Tulsa (which has Brookside, Cherry Street, Clue Dome, Brady). The good news is that OKC is growing local districts currently. Things are on the up and up.

Plaza District ranks up there among must-see stops for anyone who hasn't been in OKC in years.

if the natural gas and oil "bubble" is about to burst, what do you suggest will be our alternate sources of energy? In no way has natural gas reached it's peak... the market for natural gas was over saturated after the discovery of shale drilling, and the investments in CNG cars and pumps are just now coming around. The demand is catching up with the supply, and it is by far our cleanest, most abundant resource. There is a lot going on in OKC, don't let the things going on with CHK sway you away from here, especially with the many other energy companies here (not to mention there is much more to OKC than oil and gas)

There are actually a lot of sushi places in the metro area for what is essentially a midwestern town on the plains. It seems like no matter which part of town you locate in, there will be someplace to get sushi. As you might expect though a lot of them are okay, but not great. Sushi Neko has a good reputation and is a fantastic looking dining spot. Their food is always good, but is great hit or miss. Tokyo Japanese probably has the best sushi in town, but it isn't the nicest looking restaurant. Go Go Sushi grows on me more every time I stop by and eat there, and I hear they are opening a more upscale location in Midtown soon. I suspect it will be a great success. In Edmond there's Fuji Japanese which is very good and a nice upscale looking place. In Norman there's In the Raw which has pretty good food and has a place with much more of a nightlife kind of vibe to it. Other than these there are countless more but I don't care to recommend them.

Grocery stores absolutely sucked here until last year, then Whole Foods opened up and it shook everything up. Like Spartan said Sunflower/Sprouts is here now, and so is Natural Grocer. Several local ventures have opened as well, and all the old existing stores are furiously renovating and upping their offerings. It's still not fantastic but it has leapfrogged in the last six months and seems to keep getting better.

Oil and Gas is just one of the big industries here, and everyone seems to forget that we still have Devon, the Apple of energy, who had no problems slamming down a billion dollars in cash for their shiny new building. They are run very conservatively and are in it for the long haul. But we also have tons of aerospace going on now, with large companies like Boeing relocating entire sites here from California and Kansas. Federal, state, and local government jobs are also abundant in OKC. In Norman OU has a large employment base. In east downtown OKC there is a very large and growing biomedical sector. Dell has a sales support center over in SW OKC. All of these industries have some or a lot of I/T jobs.

I don't even notice the dumb 3.2 laws here anymore. Every bar and restaurant you go into has 'strong' beer and a full bar. Liquor stores have everything you need. The only problem is grocery stores still have to sell 3.2 only, but there is an initiative petition circulating to bring that up for a vote this November so maybe that won't be the case after a while.

Not going to lie, the nightlife is just not as good here as many cities of this size or smaller even. The quality of people going out is just not that great, and many of the bars here are stuck in some bizarre 80s or 90s alternate reality. Quality of service is mediocre, and we have inadequate anti-smoking laws.

As far as the job search goes, I haven't done that in a while but I am not a fan of the big job search engines. I have always found more success coming up with a list of big employers in an area and then hitting their corporate employment websites. Just a suggestion, but you might try that.

Good luck!

Thanks for the replies! I have to stay in Charlotte until at least September because thats when my apartment lease runs out, but I have some vacation saved up so I'll probably take a trip out to OKC sometime this summer.



I can't help with dining/nightlife recommendations until I know more about your interests, age, etc. Troll this site for what you need, and sift Urbanspoon for some ideas.


As for nightlife, I am 26, single, male. I prefer low-key, elegant lounge style places and the occasional dance club. I also like Irish Pubs quite a bit. What does OKC offer in that arena? Nightlife overall is not a make or break deal for me but it's nice to have some good options around.

[QUOTE=bchris02;536219I also like Irish Pubs quite a bit. What does OKC offer in that arena? Nightlife overall is not a make or break deal for me but it's nice to have some good options around.[/QUOTE]
We have Dan McGuinness a chain and it's pretty nice. It's located in Edmond. A locally owned business is Sean Cummings Irish Pub. He is Irish, his grandparents came over from Ireland and he spent quite a bit of time in Ireland before he changed his seafood restaurant into a pub. I like Sean and his pub. He and his staff have always been nice and they have live music often.
C. T.

I just drove through Charlotte and got lost on the interstate twice... OKC is much easier to get around :)

I would check out the restaurant threads for irish Pub type establishments, seems we have a few in the DT area (but others will need to confirm as I dont frequent the bars). Also, even the Buy for Less' have upped their game with variety and choices, the Gourmet Grill/Deli etc. I recommend the one on NW Exressway & Portland over the 23rd & Penn location and cant speak to their other locations.

Although I don't always go to Irish Pubs, when I do . . . I prefer Sean Cummings.
(But McNellies ain't no slouch.... and ain't been mentioned yet.)

And what the Buy For Less at Hefner and Penn lacks in terms of Upscaleness, freshness and selection, it more than makes up for in Cultural Diversity. (it's my "go-to" grocery store even though there is a Warmartian outpost a few block south)

Almost a year ago, we moved here from Atlanta, Ga. We have really enjoyed being here. Yes, the grocery stores were ugly when we got here, but the point that's being missed by the people who have lived here a long time is that the product IN the grocery stores is GREAT! If you eat meat, wow. The veggies are great too. Yes, we missed the prettified stores, but Whole Foods threatened and everyone is upping the ante. All the stores that have already been mentioned just opened since we got here. Don't forget the Homeland on Britton. That is a beautiful store. And I can get all of my gluten free products here now. No problems. The only thing we don't have is Trader Joe's. I miss it and hope they will eventually be here.

The coolest thing about this place is the quality of person we have encountered. These people are real, friendly, helpful, diverse and eclectic. My husband says this place is like a carnival. Never a dull moment.

I will add that the roads suck. Driving the miata around feels like I'm in one of James Bond's martinis. It's the easiest city I've lived in to get around though.

Definitely come visit!

Not that theses links can provide you qualitative reference, but it will at least get you familiar with what we're working with...


How is the dining/nightlife in downtown OKC?

As for downtown dining and nightlife, it kind of starts and ends with bricktown: http://bricktownokc.com/

However, there are other options worth mentioning in downtown and around the city (district in pathenthesis)

Dining (sushi on top):

http://www.sushineko.com/index_false.html (Western Ave.)
http://www.intherawsushi.com/ (Lower Bricktown)
http://tokyookc.com/ (Western Ave.)
http://mickeymantlesteakhouse.com/ (Bricktown)
http://www.themantelokc.com/ (Bricktown)
http://ludivineokc.com/ (Downtown)
http://www.redprimesteak.com/ (Downtown)
http://www.iguanamexicangrill.com/ (Mid Town)
http://www.stellaokc.com/ (Mid Town)
http://www.1492okc.com/ (Mid Town)
http://www.paseogrill.com/ (Paseo Arts District)
http://www.cheeverscafe.com/ (Uptown)
http://www.bigtrucktacos.com/ (Uptown)
http://www.mutts-hot-dogs.com/Mutts_Amazing_Hot_Dogs/Home.html (23rd / Uptown)
http://rococo-restaurant.com/rococo-penn-location/ (on it's own on Pennsylvania)
http://www.grandhouseokc.com/ (Asian District)
http://www.deepforkgrill.com/ (Western Ave.)

The Asian district centered around 23rd and Classen also has a wide array of local vietnamese, thai, and chinese restaurants and markets.

Night Life (small sample):

http://www.hiloclub.net/ (Classen Circle)
http://www.drunkenfry.com/ (Classen Circle)
http://51stspeakeasy.com/ (Classen Circle-ish)
http://www.facebook.com/VZDsOK (Western Ave.)
http://www.cafenovaokc.com/ (Western Ave.)
http://okcbars.net/bars/blue-note (Uptown)
http://www.mcnelliesokc.com/site/sections/2 (Mid Town)
http://www.cafedobrazilokc.com/about-us/bossa-nova (Mid Town)
http://www.picassosonpaseo.com/Picassosonpaseo.com/The_Other_Room.html

Plus, there is no shortage of dive bars. Sipango, Cock O' the Walk, and Cookies, to name a few, are all on Western Ave.



Sushi is my all-time favorite cuisine. I've heard Oklahoma doesn't have very good sushi. Is there any good places in OKC? This may sound small but its a make or break deal for me.

It's really just inconsistent more than anything. There is no WORLD class amazing sushi here and no one can seem to figure out how to do interesting sashimi (Sushi Neko has 1 sashimi dish that's not straight up sashimi and that's all I have ever found). But, if you're just a roll or nigiri eater, the sushi is good enough to get your fix.


How restrictive is the 3.2 beer laws? I love fine beers and wines and have heard many brewers and wineries won't sell in Oklahoma period because of these laws. How is the selection in the liquor stores compared to other states?

Basically, it means no beer or wine in grocery stores in excess of 3.2. Many liquor stores have a wide vareity of beers and wines that, while they may not have speciifc brews or brands, you are going to find something comprable to your favorites. The biggest draw back to the laws and the one thing that you 100% can not buy anywhere in a store in Oklahoma is chilled beer and wine in excess of 3.2, period.



Are there trendy/historic arts districts that can be somewhat comparable to Dilworth or NoDa in Charlotte, even on a smaller scale?

http://www.thepaseo.com/index.html
http://www.plazadistrict.org/


Overall, how would you compare OKC today to other mid-sized cities in this country?

It's easy living. EASY living. It used to be strangely lacking in some American staples, but that's changed for the most part and is still changing. While there is not much on a grand or wold class level, it is extremely accessible and a very easy place to carve out the life you want for yourself. You don't have to live the mass produced lifestyle that defines a lot of Oklahoma City (or most of America for that matter), but if you do, it's always on tap. There are now options for what lifestyle you want to live and it continues to expand and improve on those options.

It is still largely an economy dependent on oil and gas commodities (1/3 of gross state product is from the energy sector. That's right, ONE THIRD!), but even that is changing somewhat.

Overall, I would bet it compares well with Charlotte in a lot of areas and certainly surpasses it in the most important area... the basketball team! ; )

I totally forgot to mention Saint's in the Plaza District. It's a nice Irish pub.
C. T.

http://www.hiloclub.net/ (Classen Circle)
http://www.drunkenfry.com/ (Classen Circle)
http://51stspeakeasy.com/ (Classen Circle-ish)


Ah the Hipster Triangle ..

Ah the Hipster Triangle ..

Ahhh, the predictable post.

I guess I have to put the caveat on my post that my selections were not endorsements or recommendations, but just an attempt to give someone who asked an honest question a general overview of the things he asked about. If you wish to avoid being associating with certain vaguely defined stereotypes, Spartan is your guide. Of course, you might only be left with going to an "upscale" mall in some other city.

As for nightlife, I am 26, single, male. I prefer low-key, elegant lounge style places and the occasional dance club. I also like Irish Pubs quite a bit. What does OKC offer in that arena? Nightlife overall is not a make or break deal for me but it's nice to have some good options around.

When you say elegant and low-key, that brings a certain image to my mind that we do have some of. I wish we had more though.

bin 73 - It's in NW OKC. It is a dark and quiet place that has a huge selection of wines and a large h'orderves selection.

Venu - It's in Bricktown. It is one of those places were people hang out at tables and on sofas, but there are also people dancing at random places around the room. There's music, but it is largely non-invasive ambient-trance. I'm not sure why but it reminds me of a place in California I've been to.

Drinkz - It's sort of like what the fictional bar Cheer's might be like if it were built in the modern era and had more of a chic thing going on. It's cool but somewhat casual, but not as casual as a full on pub or sports bar. Not that kind of atmosphere at all. It's most post-college professionals here.

747 - It's in Norman. It has an upscale bar vibe, perhaps about as close to what you are thinking. It's near the OU campus so there are lots of slightly annoying college guys and girls here, which depending on what you are looking for could be a pro or con.

Blackbird Gastropub - It's in Norman. Although it's a bar with a large selection of scotch's and things like that, girls tend to really love the decor of this place (think white linens, Crate and Barrel throws and pillows, etc.). Fairly upscale vibe.

Republic Gastropub - Classen Curve in OKC. It has a very modernist feel to it... sort of a nice, modernist pub.

Skky Bar - It's a full on very loud dance club. It has it's pros and cons, but it does have that certain look to it.

It's not exactly a bar or spot on with the vibe you are asking for, but Thursday nights the OKC Museum of Art has a rooftop bar open. You can wander around and check out the art downstairs, then go upstairs and have a drink and enjoy the skyline. It's nice, low key, and classy.

Is XO Lounge open or long gone? I never went there but heard it had an elegant vibe.


These places are restaurants (they have bars) but are not bad places for that same kind of vibe:

Mickey Mantles - In Bricktown. Sort of an upscale restaurant with all sorts of food genres. The NBA players are known to frequent here.

In the Raw - In Bricktown and also in Norman. Sushi but it has sort of a lounge feel going on.

Sushi Neko - OKC. Definite lounge feel. Think black, stones, water, metal, and soft techno.

Cafe do Brasil - Midtown. They have a smallish bar upstairs, and it spills out to an outside rooftop area where they have live jazz some nights. Also it's across the street from McNellie's Pub so you can always go there (although it's more of a pub atmosphere) if nothing's going on at Brasil.

There are also some restaurants at East Wharf at Lake Hefner that you might check out. They have great views of the lake. They are not really the kind of vibe you are asking for, but I have similar tastes to you and have found them to be ok. Possibly more of an atmosphere for a date, or if we're talking Red Rock Canyon's bar area more like a cougar hunt, lol.

Also, did anything ever open back up in the former LIT location? I know something did, but was thinking it was already closed down. LIT had that lounge vibe.

Ahhh, the predictable post.

I guess I have to put the caveat on my post that my selections were not endorsements or recommendations, but just an attempt to give someone who asked an honest question a general overview of the things he asked about. If you wish to avoid being associating with certain vaguely defined stereotypes, Spartan is your guide. Of course, you might only be left with going to an "upscale" mall in some other city.

Wha huh? I like Hipster Triangle. Besides, it beats spending any time at Penn Square.. (I kid, I kid)

By the way, in case you haven't heard yet bchris, we have world-class shopping.

We have better shopping than Spartan thinks, because we have some great local stores and who cares about most of the national stores. Except that I would like a Restoration Hardware because we have no local stores that have furniture like them. Insert smiley.

And Tokyo has the best sushi. Very good sushi

We have better shopping than Spartan thinks, because we have some great local stores and who cares about most of the national stores.

This is very true. To bchris, obviously we're not a perfect urban utopia, but what city is.. don't take my tongue in cheek response to BDP as a representation of our city, that just goes back to an earlier debate we were having. Also, as you probably have scanned the forums a little to get a vibe for what's going on lately, I wouldn't construe our occasionally excessive negativity as a true indicator of anything - there are just a lot of us on here who vociferously keep demanding better and better of OKC.

I think the biggest difference between OKC now and when you left it is that back then there weren't well-organized activists who got involved in community revitalization, whereas today there certainly are, and there's even a small chance that bitching about something will lead to change.

We have better shopping than Spartan thinks, because we have some great local stores and who cares about most of the national stores. Except that I would like a Restoration Hardware because we have no local stores that have furniture like them. Insert smiley.

And Tokyo has the best sushi. Very good sushi

From my research, the only thing OKC doesn't have that I will miss that Charlotte does is IKEA and Costco. Any word on those coming to OKC? Other than that, Penn Square Mall and Classen Curve will serve most of my shopping needs quite well. I lived in Little Rock prior to Charlotte and OKC offers much better shopping than Little Rock did.

Now Southpark Mall in Charlotte has upscale stuff like Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Tiffany & Co, Neiman Marcus, etc, but I never shop there so its a non-issue for me.

No IKEA or Costco for OKC any time soon.

But really, Sam's Club is pretty much the same as Costco, just your money goes to Wal-Mart.

No IKEA or Costco for OKC any time soon.

But really, Sam's Club is pretty much the same as Costco, just your money goes to Wal-Mart.

Oh Pete, have to jump in here and respectfully disagree. Sam's and Costco are alike in a few ways, but the quality of the product mix, the house brand (Kirkland), and the customer service at Costco are head and shoulders above Sam's Club. I just find Costco to offer a more upscale experience in all ways. Having Costco here in OKC would complete my retail desires for the Metro...I would have everything I would need. Now, I had read in a fairly recent post here that the Chamber or OKC economic development stated that Costco was looking for a location here.

What's up with IKEA? It seems like they were going to locate here but never did; or was that just a rumor that wasn't true?

I hear people asking all the time why we don't have an IKEA and they ask if they are going to open here anytime soon or talk about how much they want one to open here.

An Ikea opened up in the Denver area just last summer, they have just started filling in the US between Chicago and California and north of Houston in the past 5-10 years for many years there was none in that vast area of the US. The Austin (Round Rock) location opened about 4 years ago and the Frisco one opened up something like 6 or 7 years ago. In recent years they have been going into locations that give them very large incentive packages, the reason why they are located in Round Rock (Austin area), Frisco (Dallas) and Centennial (Denver) instead of the main metro area like many of their older stores. I don't expect one in OKC any time soon but I didn't expect one to open up in Austin when it did either. We used to go to the Frisco or Houston stores before the Round Rock store opened but then we were in those locations monthly because of work so it was easy to stop by and pick stuff up.

Oh Pete, have to jump in here and respectfully disagree. Sam's and Costco are alike in a few ways, but the quality of the product mix, the house brand (Kirkland), and the customer service at Costco are head and shoulders above Sam's Club. I just find Costco to offer a more upscale experience in all ways. Having Costco here in OKC would complete my retail desires for the Metro...I would have everything I would need. Now, I had read in a fairly recent post here that the Chamber or OKC economic development stated that Costco was looking for a location here.

I would love to see Costco in OKC and help break the Wal-Mart stranglehold.

Here in California, Costco is king and I absolutely love them. I know Sam's Clubs are very similar but having never shopped at one I can understand how there are likely some key differences.

Hopefully the OP could satisfy his shopping needs at Sam's until Costco arrives.

We have memberships at both, have had a Sam's membership since the late 80's and got a Costco one when I lived in Austin and the South Austin store was under construction. There are things we get at one that the other doesn't offer but many products are carried at both.

From my research, the only thing OKC doesn't have that I will miss that Charlotte does is IKEA and Costco. Any word on those coming to OKC? Other than that, Penn Square Mall and Classen Curve will serve most of my shopping needs quite well. I lived in Little Rock prior to Charlotte and OKC offers much better shopping than Little Rock did.

Now Southpark Mall in Charlotte has upscale stuff like Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Tiffany & Co, Neiman Marcus, etc, but I never shop there so its a non-issue for me.

No Ikea anytime soon. There's an Ikea in Frisco, TX (Dallas suburb) though... that's about a three hour drive from OKC. That is one good thing about OKC... very short flights and drives to one of the largest metros in the country.

There have been rumors of Costco looking us over.

Modernize the liquor laws and OKC gets Costco almost immediately. ....

And Trader Joes .....

And 'insert wanted upscale food store here' .....

The Chamber is working on the liquor laws to lure upscale food retail (which then lures other upscale retail) to the city.

Wha huh? I like Hipster Triangle. Besides, it beats spending any time at Penn Square.. (I kid, I kid)

By the way, in case you haven't heard yet bchris, we have world-class shopping.

Ha. Sorry, I'm used to people complaining about hipsters.

Of course, it's usually hipsters doing the complaining.

Hot Rod - that is correct, the Costco announcement was contingent on them getting some wiggle room with the liquor laws. I could only find the Whirled article, but here goes:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=336&articleid=20110919_16_A1_CUTLIN62098

Even though it doesn't have that quote from Roy Williams regarding Costco (if I recall he or one of the Chamber VPs said we could potentially expect up to 7 new Costco locations), the article does specifically mention Costco.


Ha. Sorry, I'm used to people complaining about hipsters.

Of course, it's usually hipsters doing the complaining.

Yeah, that's the risk you run when you sound droll..nobody knows you're joking. The 51st Speakeasy is one of my fave digs in OKC, granted that's not nearly as hipster as other nearby digs.

Hadn't seen Saii mentioned for sushi, it's mine and the wife's favorite.

We moved here 3 years ago after 2+ years in Phoenix and 2 years in DFW. We absolutely love it. Hopefully you fall in love like some of us other have as well if you decide to head this way.

Modernize the liquor laws and OKC gets Costco almost immediately. ....

And Trader Joes .....

And 'insert wanted upscale food store here' .....

The Chamber is working on the liquor laws to lure upscale food retail (which then lures other upscale retail) to the city.

If the liquor laws are the issue with Costco, Why do they have stores in Colorado and Kansas?

Probably made more sense based on existing distribution regions.

How is the dining/nightlife in downtown OKC? How does Bricktown compare to the Epicentre in Charlotte? Are there trendy/historic arts districts that can be somewhat comparable to Dilworth or NoDa in Charlotte, even on a smaller scale?

It's getting there, but it's not there yet. You certainly won't be bored if you don't want to be, but there may just not be as many options as you would like.


How restrictive is the 3.2 beer laws? I love fine beers and wines and have heard many brewers and wineries won't sell in Oklahoma period because of these laws. How is the selection in the liquor stores compared to other states?

It's harder to find really good beer here than it is to find really good wine. That being said, there are lots of good of both. The laws may be restrictive, but the wine brokers in particular have done a phenomenal job boosting the market and getting a lot of quality products in here in the last 5 years. We have 3 bars off the top of my head that have great beer selection (RePUBlic (http://www.republicgastropub.com/uploads/rgp-beer-menu-0412.pdf), TapWerks (http://www.tapwerks.com/TapwerksBeerMenu.pdf), and McNellie's (http://www.mcnelliesokc.com/images/data/attachments/0000/0566/BeerMenu_OKC_May12.pdf?1335912717))

Hot Rod - that is correct, the Costco announcement was contingent on them getting some wiggle room with the liquor laws. I could only find the Whirled article, but here goes:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=336&articleid=20110919_16_A1_CUTLIN62098

Even though it doesn't have that quote from Roy Williams regarding Costco (if I recall he or one of the Chamber VPs said we could potentially expect up to 7 new Costco locations), the article does specifically mention Costco.



There is a lot of mythology masquerading as fact surrounding the idea of Costco being held back from Oklahoma just because of the liquor laws. For years, we were told the same thing about Whole Foods. And yet, here they are. And Costcohas entered other markets that have similarly restrictive liquor laws.

Further, seven Costco stores in Oklahoma is not likely on any reasonable time horizon. The entire State of Texas, with about 7 times the population of Oklahoma, has 12 Costco stores.

Whole Foods is in OKC due to the incentives offered by Chesapeake to fill up Classen Curve. ....

WF is in OK period due to Tulsa having a Wild Oats which got converted during their merger.

Costco is a mass marketer and prefers to have the entire market available in their stores.

Whole Foods is in OKC due to the incentives offered by Chesapeake to fill up Classen Curve. ....

WF is in OK period due to Tulsa having a Wild Oats which got converted during their merger.

Costco is a mass marketer and prefers to have the entire market available in their stores.

What's your point?

And don't underestimate the value of having a metropolitan area the size of the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex so relatively close, something you don't have in Charlotte. It's not a drive you're going to make every weekend but for special events -- a King Tut exhibit, Radiohead, Madonna, IKEA, whatever -- I know people make the drive from OKC, Shreveport, or Austin -- and make a weekend of it in Dallas. And if you have friends in Dallas that you can crash with, that makes it even better.

I think it is funny how IKEA's target market are urbanites, yet they locate in suburban locations. The warehouse system they use could be adapted to an uban environment to gain even more sales.

And don't underestimate the value of having a metropolitan area the size of the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex so relatively close, something you don't have in Charlotte. It's not a drive you're going to make every weekend but for special events -- a King Tut exhibit, Radiohead, Madonna, IKEA, whatever -- I know people make the drive from OKC, Shreveport, or Austin -- and make a weekend of it in Dallas. And if you have friends in Dallas that you can crash with, that makes it even better.

Charlotte is almost as close to Atlanta as OKC is to Dallas. (245 miles vs 206 miles)

Charlotte is almost as close to Atlanta as OKC is to Dallas. (245 miles vs 206 miles)

I thought Atlanta and Charlotte were farther apart. I guess it's those last 39 miles that make the difference!

I thought Atlanta and Charlotte were farther apart. I guess it's those last 39 miles that make the difference!

When you factor in traffic it can take over four hours to get to Atlanta from Charlotte. Having DFW close will be nice, especially for those times when I need something that OKC doesn't have. From my research and this board, I think OKC will be a good fit and I am excited to visit and confirm that. I am leaving Charlotte in August and am going to stay with my family in Muldrow while job searching in OKC. I will then relocate to the city upon employment. A lot of what part of the metro I live in depends on where I end up working, but does anybody have any apartment recommendations? I eventually plan on buying a home in the far future but to start off I want an affordable apartment but in a safe area.

What's your point?

In case you didn't read:

Whole Foods is in OKC due to the incentives offered by Chesapeake to fill up Classen Curve. ....

WF is in OK period due to Tulsa having a Wild Oats which got converted during their merger.

Costco is a mass marketer and prefers to have the entire market available in their stores.



.... and if you read an earlier post, I said that Costco would move to OKC in a heartbeat if the liquor laws were amended. ..

Got it now?

In case you didn't read:

Whole Foods is in OKC due to the incentives offered by Chesapeake to fill up Classen Curve. ....

WF is in OK period due to Tulsa having a Wild Oats which got converted during their merger.

Costco is a mass marketer and prefers to have the entire market available in their stores.



.... and if you read an earlier post, I said that Costco would move to OKC in a heartbeat if the liquor laws were amended. ..

Got it now?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Repeating a pointless post and putting it in bold-face doesn't make it any more meaningful and doesn't change the facts.

We were told for years that Whole Foods would NEVER come to Oklahoma unless liquor laws were amended. And yet, here they are. Apparently with plans to add more stores in both Tulsa and OKC. And the liquor laws have still not been amended. Also, similar liquor laws have not kept Costco from going into other places. And they have not located in some places that have liquor laws more to their liking. There are a lot of Costco stores that do not sell liquor and some that sell neither liquor nor wine.

For example, the 5 stores in Colorado, 2 stores in Kansas, 4 stores in Tennessee, at least 8 stores in Pennsylvania, and at least 5 stores in Maryland apparently don't carry wine or liquor.

It is quite clear from Costco locations across the country that a change in liquor laws is neither necessary nor sufficient to obtain a Costco.
It is nothing but silly speculation and idle message board chatter to say, and there is zero evidence for the proposition that, Costco would move to OKC in a heartbeat if liquor laws were changed. They will move to OKC (and Tulsa) when the cities fit into their expansion plans.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Repeating a pointless post and putting it in bold-face doesn't make it any more meaningful and doesn't change the facts.

We were told for years that Whole Foods would NEVER come to Oklahoma unless liquor laws were amended. And yet, here they are. Apparently with plans to add more stores in both Tulsa and OKC. And the liquor laws have still not been amended. Also, similar liquor laws have not kept Costco from going into other places. And they have not located in some places that have liquor laws more to their liking. There are a lot of Costco stores that do not sell liquor and some that sell neither liquor nor wine.

For example, the 5 stores in Colorado, 2 stores in Kansas, 4 stores in Tennessee, at least 8 stores in Pennsylvania, and at least 5 stores in Maryland apparently don't carry wine or liquor.

It is quite clear from Costco locations across the country that a change in liquor laws is neither necessary nor sufficient to obtain a Costco.
It is nothing but silly speculation and idle message board chatter to say, and there is zero evidence for the proposition that, Costco would move to OKC in a heartbeat if liquor laws were changed. They will move to OKC (and Tulsa) when the cities fit into their expansion plans.

To be fair, a change in liquor laws could well expedite the process.

To be fair, a change in liquor laws could well expedite the process.

It could, absolutely. It could tip the balance in favor of opening a store in OKC and/or Tulsa. I never suggested otherwise. All I said was that there is no reason to think that Costco will automatically and immediately (in a heartbeat) open stores in Oklahoma upon an amendment to the liquor laws. Nor is there any reason to think that they will absolutely never open a store in Oklahoma if the laws are not changed.

There's good reason to think that a change in the law would bring Costco:



The retailer, which has more than 400 stores and none in Oklahoma, said it could open six to 10 stores here by 2014 if the state's liquor laws are changed, the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber said and a Costco representative confirmed.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=12&articleid=20110822_12_0_OKLAHO326246

Not to mention, Costco is already in Louisville, Des Moines, Albuquerque, Birmingham, Omaha, and much smaller towns in Alaska, Montana, Idaho, New Hampshire, Vermont, etc.

Their stores here in California have huge alcohol sections and they do a tremendous business in wine. Alcohol is a high-margin item and I bet every Costco derives a good deal of it's profit from those sales.

If you were them and looking to expand, why on earth would you choose a state with this restriction over expanding into different or existing markets?


The new retail task force that is part of the OKC Economic Development Trust is a very strong proponent of changing the laws because they are consistently running into this obstacle when recruiting national chains, especially when it comes to food stores.

It's not a coincidence that grocery choices in OKC and the state have been abysmal in comparison to similarly sized cities.

There's good reason to think that a change in the law would bring Costco:



http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=12&articleid=20110822_12_0_OKLAHO326246

Well I guess that settles that argument! LOL.

The Costco's (and Sam's) here in Colorado have a separate beer, wine and liquor store in the building, the ones in Austin had separate liquor and beer/wine in the store itself. There are nuances to every state's (and sometimes city or county) liquor laws, a corporate entity cannot hold a liquor license in Texas, ultimately there is one person that holds the license even if they operate under a common banner like a Spec's, Twin Liquors, etc. In Texas a person is allowed up to five licenses per person and a family (even through marriage) can pool licenses together to operate under a common banner. I think all the Central Texas Spec's licenses are held by the same husband/wife combo and are relatives of the other Spec's license holders. I am not sure how the license structure in Colorado is setup, I know that even though I was born in Oklahoma and spent 37 years of my life there I could not move back and apply for a liquor license without 10 years of continuous residency. Everything in Oklahoma's liquor laws are written in a way to protect a "local" from competition from out of state, I also think that may not be the only reason why an operation like Costco stays away, it may also be due to the wholesale liquor distribution and how much more restrictive the three-tier distribution system in Oklahoma is compared to other states.

Well one of your concerns should NOT be our NBA team...ours is much better than Charlotte's.