View Full Version : Santa Fe Garage



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AP
05-16-2014, 08:34 AM
I actually kinda like the blue paneling. Still hate the shiny pieces tho.

Anonymous.
05-16-2014, 09:29 AM
I agree. The revamp on the bottom floor actually looks good. I think it is the stained and weathered concrete that throws it all off. A simple dark slate paint or stain would have made this garage bearable.

Pete
05-16-2014, 09:41 AM
From https://twitter.com/dtOKCbuilds:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bns9e9JCIAA_dHR.jpg:large

shawnw
05-16-2014, 10:34 AM
I actually kinda like the blue paneling. Still hate the shiny pieces tho.

Yeah if they could just cover the whole garage in that blue and grey stuff it's be far more attractive than imaginable with those shiny things...

Pete
05-16-2014, 10:49 AM
It will look infinitely better at ground level and from nearby and not much different from a distance.

OklahomaNick
06-23-2014, 12:02 PM
Got another memo that monthly parking is again going up again.

A year ago it went from around $85 to $115 per month for unreserved parking.
Now it went up $5 to $120 per month and will be implemented July 1.

Anonymous.
06-27-2014, 07:57 PM
Fence is down.

Pete
08-21-2014, 02:06 PM
From https://twitter.com/ParkingOKC:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvlZhkUIAAEJEN_.jpg

Pete
08-21-2014, 02:07 PM
It looks like they are using up-lighting to highlight the reflective elements.

ChaseDweller
08-21-2014, 06:23 PM
In response to a snarky tweet I sent out today, @ParkingOKC told me that RFPs for new elevators are going out next week. Huzzah!

bombermwc
08-22-2014, 08:35 AM
Can we request an RFP to put a new facade on the thing too? LOL

shawnw
08-22-2014, 10:14 AM
The reflective elements are not lit themselves, just getting the reflection from the entry light. That entries are lit, and look nice, but only went in front of them, whereas in totality it still looks quite bad, though admittedly less so at night.

okccowan
08-22-2014, 11:41 AM
New elevators should have been installed first. It still needs a paint job and windscreens so tenants can have patio options.

Pete
11-25-2014, 06:33 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3UnGktIYAIzxyV.jpg:large

OklahomaNick
11-25-2014, 10:33 PM
I am still trying to figure out if they plan to paint or clean the old dirty concrete facade..?

Bullbear
11-26-2014, 09:31 AM
over all.. the appearance didn't change or improve much.. I wouldn't even say its Lipstick on a pig.. maybe lipgloss?

Plutonic Panda
11-26-2014, 09:51 AM
over all.. the appearance didn't change or improve much.. I wouldn't even say its Lipstick on a pig.. maybe lipgloss?the very last bit of the lipgloss where you'd look at it and say, ewww, I've had that for so long and there is some lint and stuff on it, I'll just throw it away and buy another one.

AP
11-26-2014, 10:23 AM
the very last bit of the lipgloss where you'd look at it and say, ewww, I've had that for so long and there is some lint and stuff on it, I'll just throw it away and buy another one.

You have a lot of experience with lipgloss???? :wink:

Plutonic Panda
11-26-2014, 10:28 AM
You have a lot of experience with lipgloss???? :wink:haha totally :p

I was thinking of chapstick, but I think lipgloss and chapstick are the same thing pretty much.

jccouger
11-26-2014, 10:44 AM
the very last bit of the lipgloss where you'd look at it and say, ewww, I've had that for so long and there is some lint and stuff on it, I'll just throw it away and buy another one.

bahahahahahaha, very funny analogy.

Man, this thing is just so awkward to look it.

Bullbear
11-26-2014, 10:47 AM
I think it was almost better before.. because it didn't look like they TRIED to make it look better. it brings more attention to how bad it is.
some sort of abstract murual or something on it would be better I dont know but it didn't improve it in my opinion.

5alive
11-26-2014, 10:52 AM
I try not to be negative...but...this is bad. The new part in no way matches the old. The money could have been better used to paint the garage or put some real money into it, remove the façade keep the garage structure and put on a new modern façade.

turnpup
11-26-2014, 11:01 AM
I think it was almost better before.. because it didn't look like they TRIED to make it look better. it brings more attention to how bad it is.

Yes. It's like those bad home renovations where they stucco (or "stucco") over perfectly good brick and put up fake pillars and try to make a traditional house look Mediterranean or something. Ick.

Plutonic Panda
11-26-2014, 11:05 AM
bahahahahahaha, very funny analogy.

Man, this thing is just so awkward to look it.I know right haha... it's bad, like did they really do that... almost that awkward :p

PhiAlpha
11-26-2014, 12:36 PM
I am still trying to figure out if they plan to paint or clean the old dirty concrete facade..?

No kidding, not sure why they thought those wierd metal peices were a better use of funds than an fresh coat of paint or stain.

warreng88
11-26-2014, 12:41 PM
Yeah, I would compare it more to chapstick on a pig; a pig that has herpes.

HOT ROD
11-26-2014, 02:21 PM
Couldn't they bring life to EKG by opening up those storefronts on the bottom level? Right now they're filled in creating a horrible 2 block long wall of nothingness.

I wish we could split the garage in two and have Park Ave intersection, opening up the street retail. ... What a poorly designed garage.

warreng88
11-26-2014, 02:44 PM
Couldn't they bring life to EKG by opening up those storefronts on the bottom level? Right now they're filled in creating a horrible 2 block long wall of nothingness.

I wish we could split the garage in two and have Park Ave intersection, opening up the street retail. ... What a poorly designed garage.

Is there actual space for storefronts there?

HOT ROD
11-27-2014, 12:59 AM
take a look along EKG, it looks covered up/filled in along the ground level. I wish we could open that with glass and doors with some mom/pop restaurants, small shoppes, etc.

ljbab728
11-27-2014, 09:37 PM
take a look along EKG, it looks covered up/filled in along the ground level. I wish we could open that with glass and doors with some mom/pop restaurants, small shoppes, etc.

That might improve the looks but I'm just not sure how successful those businesses would be in that area.

Rover
02-04-2015, 04:47 PM
Are they through putting panels on the east side? Looks like they maybe even removed some. Not many there.

betts
02-04-2015, 10:16 PM
I hope they didn't spend too much money on that. Lipstick on a pig is generous.

bombermwc
02-05-2015, 08:35 AM
That might improve the looks but I'm just not sure how successful those businesses would be in that area.

They wouldn't at all. People are so focused on adding retail to these things, but we can't get businesses into the EXISTING retail spaces, much less the newer ones. Heck look at the Arts District garage. It's pretty freaking prime space and it's 100% empty still more than a year after opening. Santa Fe faces a non-pedestrian corridor and with Broadway being the I-40 access now, it's even more a pass-through than it was. Being between a garage and a wall won't attract foot traffic. OKC has shown that people here aren't going to park their car and go downstairs to shop....it's just not gonna happen.

And how many mom and pop whatevers do you think can survive? Every time you say mom and pop in reference to a mall, it's the first sign of the downfall of the mall (see Quail Springs thread and Crossroads). So now we're ASKING for these shops in the heart of downtown?!?!?!?!

If you want retail to work downtown, there are a few things that have to happen. The first thing is that there needs to be retail space that isn't just 1k sq ft. There needs to be space available on a ground floor that can actually hold a REAL store. Even if it's also capable of holding multiple tenants, being able to NOT subdivide will attract an anchor. We're not talking Target or Dillards here. Right now you couldn't even fit an Old Navy in there. The second thing is you need to have something other than coffee or food. It's been incredibly difficult to get Bricktown to get out of that mode and at least now we finally have some things. If you do coffee and food, you're guaranteeing that downtown will be DEAD on weekends and after 5. Hell, go look in the Underground for good examples of that.

betts
02-05-2015, 09:22 AM
That stretch of EK Gaylord on both the east and west sides is about as uninviting for pedestrians as anyplace in the downtown/CBD. I'm hoping it will improve with the renovation of the Santa Fe Station and Project 180 redo, but I would guess parking garages are rarely more appealing for retail than structures which are not parking garages. I personally think "mom and pop" stores are the best thing about shopping in a city, but were I to open one, I can think of many places I would look before a parking garage like the Santa Fe.

The reason downtown is dead on nights and weekends is not because of coffee and food, but rather because most of those restaurants and coffee shops are not open on nights and weekends. If you doubt me, try to eat brunch at Kitchen 324 or even the Art Museum on a Sunday without a reservation.

Anonymous.
02-05-2015, 09:30 AM
8 foot sidewalks and on street parking along EKG would help SO much. Add modern crosswalks and traffic signals and you have improved the street by 400%. EKG doesn't need retail, people already walk along it as it is the only way for people to get from AA/DD down towards the CCC, the 'Peake, the Gardens... The bricktown side of the tracks has no obvious walkpath (just random parking lots and fences to slolem through).

It is embarassing how many people I see dragging rolling luggage through the grass/dirt (east) side of EKG heading towards the train station or CCC etc.

BDP
02-05-2015, 09:32 AM
And how many mom and pop whatevers do you think can survive? Every time you say mom and pop in reference to a mall, it's the first sign of the downfall of the mall (see Quail Springs thread and Crossroads). So now we're ASKING for these shops in the heart of downtown?!?!?!?!

If you want retail to work downtown, there are a few things that have to happen. The first thing is that there needs to be retail space that isn't just 1k sq ft. There needs to be space available on a ground floor that can actually hold a REAL store. Even if it's also capable of holding multiple tenants, being able to NOT subdivide will attract an anchor. We're not talking Target or Dillards here. Right now you couldn't even fit an Old Navy in there. The second thing is you need to have something other than coffee or food. It's been incredibly difficult to get Bricktown to get out of that mode and at least now we finally have some things. If you do coffee and food, you're guaranteeing that downtown will be DEAD on weekends and after 5. Hell, go look in the Underground for good examples of that.

Malls have been dying in general in part due to the large anchor model. A lot of those stores traditionally recruited as anchors have been struggling despite the favorable leases they get due to their anchor status, and this trend has left a lot of malls with large contiguous space filled with redundant tenants. At the same time, urban shopping districts have become the main source in retail growth in many cities. We haven't seen it here as much and our malls do considerably better per square foot than most across the country, but, more and more, the large department anchor stratgey is becoming the "old model" of the retail industry.

I'm not trying to endorse the Santa Fe parking garage as the future of downtown retail or that an anchor or two wouldn't help downtown, as long as it is the right anchor. I'm just saying that an anchor here or there is meaninglessness if it is not integrated with development that creates a critical mass of retail space that can house multiple smaller store fronts that offer specialized product mixes (see Bass Pro and lower bricktown). In fact, if you have the latter, you don't need large anchors. Many popular urban shopping areas thrive without traditional anchors. It seems today that having contiguous store fronts in pedestrian friendly developments is more important than contiguous square feet available to single tenants.

IMO, Automobile Alley still presents the best chance for a bonafide retail district downtown. However, the retail space is still fragmented by surface lots and ground floors leased as office space, but it's potential is still very strong. There is ample space between the storefronts on Broadway and the train tracks to the east to add adequate parking that would allow for infill on the surface lots without a net loss of parking. This would help create the critical mass needed that would make the district itself the de facto anchor attraction even if it didn't add a 20k+ sf traditional anchor. This is basically how many of the pedestrian only or pedestrian/transit only districts have been created in many cities across the country. Honestly, AA does pretty well already with its tourist traffic and the locals who are just craving a different shopping experience than the malls or memorial ave offers. IMO, the key to expanding traffic and attracting your typical mall shopper will be to achieve critical mass by way of more retail doors, rather than more square footage per door.

OklahomaNick
02-10-2015, 09:59 PM
Assuming the renovations are done (no workers have been present in the last 3 months) then the city got TAKEN for $2.5 million.
I seriously have NO idea what they spent all that money on for renovations.. Its pretty awful!

On top of that our monthly parking rates went from $90 to $120..

OklahomaNick
03-25-2015, 04:18 PM
Some small revisions to this project, as it's getting ready to commence.

I really like the light-up panels shown in the second rendering.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/santafe1.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/santafe2.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/santafe3.jpg

It seriously looks NOTHING like this...

dwellsokc
03-25-2015, 04:36 PM
Assuming the renovations are done (no workers have been present in the last 3 months) then the city got TAKEN for $2.5 million.
I seriously have NO idea what they spent all that money on for renovations.. Its pretty awful!

On top of that our monthly parking rates went from $90 to $120..

The design program called for replacing the deteriorating storefronts with new, more energy efficient & weathertight systems, and to draw attention to the concourses that lead to the interior courtyard. New lighting and pavement surfaces were also installed. COTPA's goal was to make the tenant spaces more desirable. That's it. These things justify the project cost.

They understand that the existing building is a dog and would very much like to perform a building-wide renovation. They're planning to replace all elevators with newer faster models. As soon as they do all this stuff, you can probably count on receiving another parking rate increase.

Just the facts
03-25-2015, 10:23 PM
If they want to increase business for the retail space, see that walkway going over Sheridan - TAKE IT OUT!!! This isn't rocket science. All those hundred and hundreds of people that use it everyday would instead walk right in front of the retail space.

bombermwc
03-26-2015, 08:11 AM
And they would also have to walk through the elements....not a good idea.

Bellaboo
03-26-2015, 08:19 AM
That walkway connects all the way to the Cox. It's great during inclement weather to and from the basketball games. Especially during the winter.

Just the facts
03-26-2015, 08:57 AM
Well you can't have it both ways so someone needs to decide which it is going to be; a pedestrian rich business friendly streetscape that creates jobs, genetates tax revenue, and rent that helps pay for the garage OR skywalks. If the choice is skywalks then the City needs to stop wasting money on retail studies.

Doctor: What seems to be the problem?
Patient: Doc, it hurts when I do this.
Doctor: Then stop doing that.

ksearls
03-26-2015, 09:55 AM
Right now I don't care what it looks like, but I expect it to function properly for $120 a month. Currently there is ONE elevator in service for the entire garage. The south elevators are closed for three months and are being replaced, which is a good thing. Both north elevators are supposed to be in service but one has been down for the past three days. I have not seen an elevator service person at all.

Just the facts
03-26-2015, 10:32 AM
Maybe that level of operation is what you get for $120/mo. At $150 you get 4 working elevators. According to the Shoupistas they should keep raising the price until it is 85% full, which they determine to be optimum efficiency for parking.

OklahomaNick
03-26-2015, 12:06 PM
The garage is definitely full of monthly parkers. In fact if you are a near by lessee you will have to fight with them to get 1 additional monthly spot for a new employee even tough the roof is rarely at 50-60% capacity. Also, yes being down to 1 elevator the past several days has been a nightmare (especially at 5:00PM).

I also wish they had not placed all the stairwell entrances on the east side of the facility where nobody enters on foot..

OklahomaNick
03-26-2015, 12:13 PM
Also to comment on the justification of the cost of renovations:

Investors typically want a minimum of a 10% return on their investment. I understand that is not always possible, but anyone who is spending 2.5 million dollars should VERY much vet a process so that they will not lOSE money or gain very little in return. The improvements that they made will not allow them to charge very much more per SF in lease price than they are getting now. Period.

Also, the available space is NOT even being actively marketed for lease, but don't get me started on that..

I am not expecting the city to act like an investor.. BUT did anyone look at this and think, "Okay if we renovate this we can get maybe $12 to $14 per SF instead of the $8 to $10 we are getting in lease price now? Sure! let's throw $2.5 million at it!" The money they spent to make it more appealing is not justified in my opinion.. not even close..

Bellaboo
03-26-2015, 12:31 PM
I walk to the games and back during adverse weather from the garage, otherwise, when it's fair outside I park over by the Rex elementary school and cut through the MBG. I have a parking pass for every game but only use them maybe 15 times in a season. I don't park in that garage to go down to the street level to buy something, I park there to go to the games. On the other hand, last year on occasion we'd leave a little early and stop at the MBG and split a burger and fries on the way to the game, when the weather was nice and permitted us to sit OUTSIDE at the park.

dwellsokc
03-26-2015, 01:31 PM
...The improvements that they made will not allow them to charge very much more per SF in lease price than they are getting now. Period.

Maybe not. But it did enable them to immediately lease space that had been vacant for YEARS. (Is someone forcing you to rent their parking space?)

Just the facts
03-26-2015, 01:56 PM
Someone can only complain if they are being forced to participate? I went to the grocery and when I got home the milk was sour. Now I can't complain because I went to the store on my own accord?

Just the facts
03-26-2015, 01:58 PM
With regard to the skywalks and tunnels, as a downtown worker I refuse to us them and only eat lunch in places that have a door to the sidewalk.

dwellsokc
03-26-2015, 03:13 PM
Someone can only complain if they are being forced to participate? I went to the grocery and when I got home the milk was sour. Now I can't complain because I went to the store on my own accord?
Of course you can complain because the product doesn't meet fundamental requirements (yours AND the sellers). Nick is complaining about the money the milk producer spends to improve their dairy equipment! Is someone forcing Nick to buy the milk??

OklahomaNick
03-26-2015, 04:22 PM
I am lactose intolerant..

Urbanized
03-26-2015, 08:58 PM
The problem with the skywalk over Sheridan isn't the elements or really anything to do with the public; it's the contractual relationship the City/Cox Center has with the Renaissance, which provides food and beverage services to the meeting rooms at the Cox. The City couldn't remove that skywalk even if they really, REALLY wanted to.

Just the facts
03-27-2015, 11:58 AM
The problem with the skywalk over Sheridan isn't the elements or really anything to do with the public; it's the contractual relationship the City/Cox Center has with the Renaissance, which provides food and beverage services to the meeting rooms at the Cox. The City couldn't remove that skywalk even if they really, REALLY wanted to.

They can close it to the public.

Also, sign me up for 'fixer squad' duty.

TheTravellers
03-27-2015, 03:44 PM
...

Also, sign me up for 'fixer squad' duty.

Yep, me too, I'd do that in an instant, you could also put me on "fixer" duty for broken traffic lights, badly timed traffic lights, crappy paint coming off crosswalks, broken sidewalks, etc. The "fixer squad" would be the most hated dept. in the city, though, but it'd be worth it to make things right.

Urbanized
03-27-2015, 04:21 PM
There's an app for that. I turned something in yesterday.

Just the facts
03-27-2015, 06:51 PM
I am on board with your version Sid.

dwellsokc
03-28-2015, 07:50 AM
Fixer Squads sound very similar to the Six-Sigma process for reducing error. Sid, your intelligence and energy levels are obviously high… I think they’d be much more useful in the private sector. Our government is big enough as-is and would surely morph an “innovation” office into a stagnation office in no time.

Constructing or destructing the sky bridge is not a process mistake. It’s not any kind of mistake. How is walking from Point-A to Point-B in comfort more destructive than walking in swirling rain through the Veolia canyon? People use the ground level path unless it’s blowing rain, or freezing wind.

499 Sheridan is not a harmful project (if that’s what you meant by “409”). The “desired street life” will only be about 1,000% better than it’s been on that block for the past 30 years.

Putting a fence-box in the middle of a downtown sidewalk is stupid, and shouldn’t have been allowed, but it didn’t violate the “city’s ADA definitions,” which are currently better than adequate.

I think that your utopian city would be much more achievable if you were a developer rather than a governor. (I don’t know anything about you, but you sure sound like a politician. Please forgive that insult if you’re not!)

Spartan
03-28-2015, 08:02 AM
Fixer Squads sound very similar to the Six-Sigma process for reducing error. Sid, your intelligence and energy levels are obviously high… I think they’d be much more useful in the private sector. Our government is big enough as-is and would surely morph an “innovation” office into a stagnation office in no time.

Constructing or destructing the sky bridge is not a process mistake. It’s not any kind of mistake. How is walking from Point-A to Point-B in comfort more destructive than walking in swirling rain through the Veolia canyon? People use the ground level path unless it’s blowing rain, or freezing wind.

499 Sheridan is not a harmful project (if that’s what you meant by “409”). The “desired street life” will only be about 1,000% better than it’s been on that block for the past 30 years.

Putting a fence-box in the middle of a downtown sidewalk is stupid, and shouldn’t have been allowed, but it didn’t violate the “city’s ADA definitions,” which are currently better than adequate.

I think that your utopian city would be much more achievable if you were a developer rather than a governor. (I don’t know anything about you, but you sure sound like a politician. Please forgive that insult if you’re not!)

I know that anyone respectable knows better than to criticize 499, but you can't be serious. The street life will be 1,000% better than what Preftakes had there while he owned the buildings, canceled leases, and was given a pass from ANY code enforcement. He intentionally created such an undesirable picture so that you can be able to say his extremely cheap parking garages are an improvement.

That's what we do in this city. We make things so.