I'm just posting a snippet. But, Steve has an interesting story about the history of city planning in OKC and the process surrounding design of the new park:

Engineers aren't without valuable experience and expertise. But when asked why the selection committee is stacked with city engineers, and doesn't include people with backgrounds in planning and parks operations, the answer wasn't an argument against diversifying the group or in defense of the engineers' expertise.
Instead, Clowers cited a policy governing the selection committees that dates back 25 years. It's being done, he essentially said, because that's always the way it's been done.


Read more: http://newsok.com/will-engineers-decide-the-future-of-oklahoma-citys-core-to-shore-park/article/3663057#ixzz1qyeyiBEK

I thought Steve would like to know this: Traffic engineers refer to trees as FHOs: Fixed Hazardous Objects.

That is NOT a joke btw.

As do golfers...LOL

Well why do ANY of you think it would be any other way?

That is the way this city works.

As do golfers...LOL

Yes, but golfers don't cut down all the trees, straighten the dog legs, fill in the creeks, and pave over the sand traps so they can lower their score. They just get better at playing golf. If engineers designed a golf course each hole would just be a giant concrete funnel so every shot was a hole in one. They would only be interested in achieving the lowest score as fast as possible. It would be like hitting a golfball into a swimming pool, the ball would roll to the drain all on its own. Sure you would get 18 hole-in-ones but it wouldn't be very fun.

Yes, but golfers don't cut down all the trees, straighten the dog legs, fill in the creeks, and pave over the sand traps so they can lower their score. They just get better at playing golf.

Guess you haven't played Cedar Valley. :-)

It's being done, he essentially said, because that's always the way it's been done.

Maybe someone should think about whether this could be a reason why we are spending hundreds of millions of dollars to RE-create the city center.

How about we give someone else a shot at this time?

Maybe someone should think about whether this could be a reason why we are spending hundreds of millions of dollars to RE-create the city center.

How about we give someone else a shot at this time?

Not to mention that it's the engineers, not urban planners, that have been at fault for the recent massive cost-overruns of P180 and other programs. Laura Story was directly in charge of P180 planning and then implementation was moved over to yet another traffic engineer, after Laura Story got a promotion for her "good job."

The scariest part is the last sentence: "It's being done, he essentially said, because that's always the way it's been done."

What is making OKC great is we are now doing things differently. Whenever I see/hear things like the sentence above, I get nervous...

The scariest part is the last sentence: "It's being done, he essentially said, because that's always the way it's been done."

What is making OKC great is we are now doing things differently. Whenever I see/hear things like the sentence above, I get nervous...


What might be asked instead of condemning that statement is what is the process for changing the appointments to the selection committee. Did Dennis Clowers have an option? Who picks the members of that committee and what is the policy that determines that? The makeup of the committee may or may not be the best choices but I think the general observations about the selection process need a little further investigation before being so roundly criticized.

If you watch the various committee and city council meetings, you get the impression that Jim Couch (City Manager and engineer) has much, much more power and control than any other single person in Oklahoma City.

If you watch the various committee and city council meetings, you get the impression that Jim Couch (City Manager and engineer) has much, much more power and control than any other single person in Oklahoma City.

of course he does he is the CEO of our City and every city employee reports to him ...

he is also the longest running city manager in our cities history

I would say much more than operations.