Pete,

It occurs to me that this list does not include some of the lower-income and specialty properties downtown. Should those be included so we can get a more complete number of downtown residents? Or is this more specifically related to new / newer projects?

That information is not easily accessible.

If you know where to find it, let me know.

That information is not easily accessible.

If you know where to find it, let me know.

I'll try to do some research on this.

You pretty much would have to take a map, then look up each property on the County Assessor's site, then research the number of units.

Also, we need to define downtown for the purpose of this exercise.

IMO, it should be the River to the south, 13th to the north, I-235 to the east and Classen to the west.

Pete, it would be cool if this thread had an aerial map showing all the residential projects (existing and proposed) -- just like in the 10th & Shartel posting -- but including all of them (Midtown, DD, Bricktown, Auto Alley,...)

It would have to be a pretty big image to show all that, though.

Pete, it would be cool if this thread had an aerial map showing all the residential projects (existing and proposed) -- just like in the 10th & Shartel posting -- but including all of them (Midtown, DD, Bricktown, Auto Alley,...)

It would have to be a pretty big image to show all that, though.

Project Map (http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/map1.htm)

You pretty much would have to take a map, then look up each property on the County Assessor's site, then research the number of units.

Also, we need to define downtown for the purpose of this exercise.

IMO, it should be the River to the south, 13th to the north, I-235 to the east and Classen to the west.

Maybe for the purposes of Residential, we should go to 18th on the North border. I know we have the Aberdeen north of 13th and several other buildings that will likely be renovated. Homeland sits on the south-side of 18th.

We could just include all the single-family single-units as one entry on the sheet by neighborhood and specify for HH, MP, SOSA and maybe DD.

I like 13th as the northern border because it's a clear delineation between downtown and the residential area of Mesta Park / Heritage Hills. Almost everything between 13th & 23rd is single-family.

There are some exceptions but then why not take it to 23rd and beyond? Lots of multi-family in Jefferson Park and the Paseo; tons of 8-plexes and the like.

When I think of downtown, it seems that includes the CBD, Film Row, SoSa, Midtown, Bricktown, Lower Bricktown, Auto Alley, Deep Deuce, Flatiron and Core to Shore. And Midtown definitely stops at 13th street.

You do have Uptown/23rd, The Plaza, Heritage Hills, Mesta Park, Gatewood, Classen-Ten-Penn and a bunch of other urban districts, but I wouldn't include them in downtown.

Because I think the people in the lowest portions of HH/MP probably consider themselves downtown residents and frequent DT restaurants and shops as much as the people who live in Midtown...maybe even Deep Deuce.

18th is also the exact middle street between 23rd and 13th, and 23rd is the north border of scaled urban development in OKC. I agree that 13th is the border of "Downtown Proper"...but there's a blend out of downtown, especially between Harvey and Broadway, north of 13th. The only reason it doesn't do that on any of the other 3 borders is that 1 is an interstate, 1 is a river, and the other was an industrial center, and has sat relatively abandoned for decades.

Anyway, the area south of 18th is primarily a downtown supporting neighborhood, whereas a place like Jefferson Park is primarily a 23rd/Paseo supporting neighborhood, Gatewood/CTP for the Plaza, etc. I would bet north of 18th, people patron 23rd as much as they do downtown.

I've updated the summary above to add the latest projects and also split out built, under construction and proposed.

Of note:

1,789 current apartment units
565 are under construction
1,109 are definitively proposed

So, our apartment inventory is about to double in just the next couple of years, after pretty much doubling the last two.

I've updated the summary above to add the latest projects and also split out built, under construction and proposed.

Of note:

1,789 current apartment units
565 are under construction
1,109 are definitively proposed

So, our apartment inventory is about to double in just the next couple of years, after pretty much doubling the last two.

And this doesn't include the rumored development at 10th and Harvey. How many units will that have?

Just updated the article above to include the propose 700 West development.

We now have more apartments under construction and proposed than current exist in the central core.

Just updated the article above to include the propose 700 West development.

We now have more apartments under construction and proposed than current exist in the central core.

So 100% gain in downtown population coming soon.

Just updated the article above to include the propose 700 West development.

We now have more apartments under construction and proposed than current exist in the central core.

o0o…not quite…you forgot to move Maywood I over to the completed column :wink: . That pushes the totals from 1801 completed vs. 1961 PP/UC to 1940 completed vs. 1822 PP/UC.

QUICK!!! Someone announce a 119 unit complex before The Edge finishes!

Yes, I also forgot to move Maywood II to under construction and to remove the Mideke project altogether, since the housing plans have been scrapped.

The article now reflects these changes.

Pete,

Do you have a map that ONLY shows the downtown housing units -- both completed and proposed -- and the number of units? My wife is doing a graduate paper and could use the information.

Thanks!

Brian

I've updated the summary in the article (top of the page) to accurately show the number of units under construction and a few new projects.

I thought here would be the best place to put this:

Building the next generation: Downtown OKC needs more variety, families, panel says

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record September 12, 20140

OKLAHOMA CITY – By 2016, the number of housing units in downtown may increase more than 400 percent since 2009. That growth could be tapered, however, if some concerns are not addressed, said Ian Colgan, assistant planning director with the city of Oklahoma City.

He said existing and planned housing projects help meet a pent-up demand, but there must be more diversity in the product, including housing for families and a wider range of price points.

“We are way ahead of the curve with the (John Rex Charter Elementary School), but we are behind the curve on housing for families,” he said Friday.

Colgan spoke at the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber’s Friday Forum at the Sheraton Oklahoma City Downtown Hotel. Also on the panel were Downtown OKC Inc. CEO and President Jane Jenkins, Midtown Renaissance Group President Mickey Clagg and Milhaus Ventures Vice President of Development Terry Hughes.

Equity Realty Realtor Judy Hatfield led the panel discussion.

Colgan said 96 percent of the downtown housing units are leasable, which raised a question later as to why developers are not building for-sale units. He said building in the area can be costly; therefore, getting for-sale products will take work to be profitable.

Clagg said his company hasn’t gone into for-sale products because it’s just not something it is interested in pursuing.

Jenkins said she’s seeing more for-sale units developing in the Cottage District near St. Anthony Hospital, but there has been some hesitation with pursuing the market because of previous efforts.

“Some initial offerings didn’t do so well when they were for sale,” she said, giving The Montgomery as an example.

The building at Main Street and Walker Avenue was developed as condominiums. The condos didn’t sell well, however, and the units are now leased.

Nevertheless, Jenkins said John Rex Elementary is an innovative amenity. She recently returned from the International Downtown Association’s annual conference and trade show and learned what other downtowns worldwide are doing.

“Nobody has built an elementary school,” she said. “We built the elementary with the idea and the vision that it will encourage families to move downtown.”

She said that, according to a 2013 survey conducted by Downtown Oklahoma City Inc., 87 percent of the area’s residents are childless.

“That’s a trend we’d like to change,” she said.

Getting families downtown will require more than providing homes they can own. Families want amenities such as grocery stores and pharmacies, both of which are in limited supply in the area, Jenkins said. She said many downtown residents want a bookstore. Whatever retail develops, she said, she and her staff want downtown to be a locally owned hub. When she worked in Colorado, she saw national stores come into the area, stay for a year, then leave.

“National retailers gave Boulder some credibility,” she said. “But local retailers will be there to sustain (the area).”

Clagg said he thinks more retail will come as housing increases, which is his group’s goal.

“We’re leading with residential,” he said. “We’re going to build density to get retailers. I think the retailers will come and the amenities will come as we increase our population.”

When a grocery store or other large development wants to build downtown, Clagg said his company will be ready for the new business. He said he doesn’t plan to develop all of its green spaces just yet.

“We need to hold back some land for those future uses that we think will come,” he said.

Midtown Renaissance isn’t the only company adding density. Indianapolis-based Milhaus Ventures is building the 329-unit LIFT apartments at NW 10th Street and N. Shartel Avenue. They are expected to be complete in 2015. Hughes said the company entered the market through a personal connection, but he doesn’t expect LIFT to be its only project.

“We look to be here for many years to come,” he said.

He said the company became interested in Oklahoma City after learning about the growing population and downtown’s livability.

“People want to live in an area that’s walkable,” he said.

He said the company also liked the neighborhood distinction. While people choose where they live based on price point, all the neighborhoods have different assets.

To keep this downtown momentum going, he said the city needs to continue supporting downtown employment by making capital investments in city projects.

Jenkins said she expects that to continue and more. She’s worked with downtowns for 28 years and has never seen such a push to develop an area, she said.

“Never have I seen converging trends favor downtowns as much as I do today,” Jenkins said. “For once, I’m proud to say that Oklahoma City is not behind the curve. We’re ahead of the curve.”

From The Journal Record:

Surrounding neighborhoods could alleviate downtown OKC housing shortage

By: Molly M. Fleming September 18, 20140

OKLAHOMA CITY – People who want to buy a home downtown may have to purchase in a peripheral neighborhood that’s adjacent to the corridor rather than in the central core, according to some Oklahoma City Realtors.

“The desire (to live downtown) is there,” said Sarah Bytyqi, managing broker at Verbode real estate group. “People want to move back downtown. They want to move closer. It’s not about the demand. We just don’t have the product, and we don’t have the product in existing urban housing.”

According to real estate website Zillow.com, the average sales price for a home in Oklahoma City in July was $159,800. In the central downtown core, one-bedroom condominiums start at $180,000.

A two-bedroom, two-bathroom condo in the Central Avenue Villas at 444 N. Central Ave. is listed for $252,900.

Bytyqi said she sells properties in The Hill at Bricktown, Block 42, and The Brownstones at Maywood Park.

“Everything else is rental,” she said. “Nothing (downtown) really turns over that often. Every developer is developing rentals because that’s where the money’s at. But at the same time, it’s not serving the single-family unit.”

Oklahoma Association of Realtors Past President Joe Pryor said it’s difficult for developers to build single-family homes downtown because of the land cost. A multifamily developer can build and rent the space multiple times, eventually getting back the investment. A single-family home can be sold once or once every few years, so unless it’s priced like the brownstones, or homes on The Hill, the return isn’t as immediate.

“There really is no affordable housing down there,” he said. “I don’t particularly see any affordable housing coming. You just can’t build them enough to get a groundswell.”

Pryor said there could be a surge in adjacent areas, such as Classen Ten Penn. The neighborhood runs from N. Classen Boulevard to N. Pennsylvania Avenue, and from NW 10th Street to NW 16th Street. Creating some type of incentive program for renovating homes in that neighborhood could encourage people to buy, Pryor said.

“In those areas, we can create affordable housing,” he said.

Families need more than a nice house, however. The schools near downtown have caused some concern in the past. Bytyqi said she would like to see downtown businesses get involved with schools such as Edgemere Elementary School and Gatewood Elementary School. She said improving those schools could be the first step to getting more people to move in and renovate existing homes.

“We need to develop in the outlying areas that are already existing,” she said. “We should focus on bringing those neighborhoods up. In my opinion, that’s the only logical solution.”

Here is the exception to the above rule. http://www.okctalk.com/general-real-estate-topics/39186-lots-sale-heritage-hills-can-help-build.html

Theses lots feed the best elementary school downtown and I would like to build for a family. We will see if there is enough interest from families to own downtown or if I will be forced to build for the rental market.

anyone has downtown housing units count for city like Kansas city, Nashville, Austin, Charlotte?

I updated the article at the top to reflect the addition of the Clayco Towers and the movement of several projects from UC to complete and from proposed to UC.

I thought the Francis Apartments were already under construction?

I thought the Francis Apartments were already under construction?

Not quite yet, but they are getting close. You may be thinking of LIFT, which is very nearby.

Just did a thoroughly update to this summary, adding several projects and updating others.

Probably should take the Clayco stuff out but I'm leaving it in for now. Everything else is really solid with lots more to come.

Very good summary Pete - i assume "sold" means formally deeded over. For example, think Lisbon is fully under contract but not yet listed as sold.

One thing that is interesting to note: the inventory of apartments units will increase by fully 50% with in the next year, as several big complexes (LIFT, Metropolitan, Steelyard, etc.) open for business.

We'll go from just under 2,500 apartments to about 3,700.

If rental and occupancy rates stay strong expect tons more project to queue up, as it will be pretty much certainly proof there is far more demand than inventory.

Just did a thorough update of the summary; added the newest projects and deleted a couple of now dead ones (like L2 and Clayco).

Just did a thorough update of the summary; added the newest projects and deleted a couple of now dead ones (like L2 and Clayco).

Surprisingly low numbers. With the price/sqft of SFH in some of the more popular 'hoods its pretty stunning nobody has stepped up to build any condo towers, even if only 100-200 units.

I covered the summary article to a table with links to the various projects.

The high rental rate stated in that 2014 article makes me a little concerned about the long term upkeep of these complexes. I would hate for them, and in turn the neighborhood, to not be in top shape 25-30 years from now.

The whole inner city gentrification craze is still somewhat new, so I don't know if any other cities have experienced it long enough to act as a model for what would happen if rental rates don't drop. I know these aren't your run of the mill, low income housing complexes, so hopefully the result will be different.

The high rental rate stated in that 2014 article makes me a little concerned about the long term upkeep of these complexes. I would hate for them, and in turn the neighborhood, to not be in top shape 25-30 years from now.

The whole inner city gentrification craze is still somewhat new, so I don't know if any other cities have experienced it long enough to act as a model for what would happen if rental rates don't drop. I know these aren't your run of the mill, low income housing complexes, so hopefully the result will be different.

What's actually new is the 70-years of sprawl that gripped most major US metropolitan areas post-WWII.

The Center-city is not going to go anywhere and you only have to look to Europe and centuries upon centuries of history to realize what the future holds. That's not to say there will be no decline, but the forces that have worked to, over time, severely depress areas in suburban US communities simply will not apply. Chief among them is that the flight that was enabled by cheap, undeveloped land will simply not be a thing as urbanization spreads its tendrils.

Wasn't there just a massive redevelopment of a lot of European urban centers too? I haven't been overseas, but I've heard from people even in a lot of European cities the area can get bad quick with the turn of a corner.

But why are we even comparing Europe which has an entirely different culture than the US on almost every level. I love European girls and talk to a lot and they tell me they love American cities. So you have people from both sides liking and disliking each other's cities, but suburbs are not going away. Neither are large roads or highways.

The gentrification of these cities is newer than the sprawl and if you live in big cities you'll actually a large amount of people who are opposed to gentrification because of the high rent prices that come with it.

I'm not making value judgements, simply stating that the mechanisms which have historically led to the quick digression of certain areas in US cities are absent in downtown OKC.

If you want to live in an urban environment in OKC, you have insanely limited options, and that's not going to change for many many decades to come. The reason an area can turn south quickly in Europe is because there are still viable options to live a similar lifestyle in other parts of any given city. The same is true of suburban living for most US suburbs. There are abundant options of that flavor.

Also, don't mistake the term urban-center for city center. All of Vienna is an urban center, but the city center is enclosed in Ringstraße...short of being decimated through an act of war, it's hard to see any way that everything in that city center ever falls below world-class. It's been world class for almost a millennium now. The city centers of Europe continue and will always be areas with the some of the highest concentrations of wealth and quality development in the world.

Everything going into downtown OKC is going into the heart of the city, and, short of being decimated through an act of war, it's hard to see us committing anew the mistakes we made by neglecting the area post WWII. That's not to say that Deep Deuce/Bricktown will always be the epicenter of urban living in OKC...but it's simply never going to turn into the Lantana Apartments or really anything close. In fact, I think it's more likely that if one of these developments starts to take a turn for the worse sometime during the next 20-40 years, that it could be razed for an even higher quality development.

Now something like the new Page Woodson Apartments...that's an area that could be developed, be great for a decade or two and then see a noticeable drop off afterward.

Teo9960:

Hope what you're saying holds up--it will be great for OKC's future. Seeing the downtown/bricktown area core continue to expand in all directions adds credence to your post. Plus the hotel & residential developments once they demolish the Producers COOP Mill eyesore.

Plausible? We see what the distaff of the core holds for OKC's growth & expansion.

I'm not making value judgements, simply stating that the mechanisms which have historically led to the quick digression of certain areas in US cities are absent in downtown OKC.

If you want to live in an urban environment in OKC, you have insanely limited options, and that's not going to change for many many decades to come. The reason an area can turn south quickly in Europe is because there are still viable options to live a similar lifestyle in other parts of any given city. The same is true of suburban living for most US suburbs. There are abundant options of that flavor.

Also, don't mistake the term urban-center for city center. All of Vienna is an urban center, but the city center is enclosed in Ringstraße...short of being decimated through an act of war, it's hard to see any way that everything in that city center ever falls below world-class. It's been world class for almost a millennium now. The city centers of Europe continue and will always be areas with the some of the highest concentrations of wealth and quality development in the world.

Everything going into downtown OKC is going into the heart of the city, and, short of being decimated through an act of war, it's hard to see us committing anew the mistakes we made by neglecting the area post WWII. That's not to say that Deep Deuce/Bricktown will always be the epicenter of urban living in OKC...but it's simply never going to turn into the Lantana Apartments or really anything close. In fact, I think it's more likely that if one of these developments starts to take a turn for the worse sometime during the next 20-40 years, that it could be razed for an even higher quality development.

Now something like the new Page Woodson Apartments...that's an area that could be developed, be great for a decade or two and then see a noticeable drop off afterward.

I think this is all pretty accurate. Regarding Page Woodson, that's the reason for the mixed-income emphasis. Ultimately the NE Renaissance will be tied to the rise and/or fall of black lives in this country, and if they can do better as we all hope, that geographic community will consequently improve along w its demographic. It could potentially be what OCURA has been working toward all along with the JFK neighborhood, Page Woodson, and other NE projects - the full restoration of a thriving black neighborhood.

That said, there are some threats still out there. I'm surprised ODOT is more interested in three new peripheral highways than they are in widening 235 downtown, which will probably happen someday. The boulevard is an ongoing threat.

Arkansas literally just pulled up streetcar tracks in Little Rock to widen their downtown freeway and add an exit by the Clinton Library. Cincinnati is trying to sabotage its streetcar with traffic signalization that keeps it stranded for several minutes at every single block. There are always unfathomable, unforeseeable threats, because I am convinced that there are powers that be that genuinely do not want a successful urban core.

I think a lot of these anti-gentrification liberals, anti-urban conservatives, and anti-infrastructure / pro-highway Republicans are all on the same team, benefiting the same special interests, just going at it from different directions. In bigger, older cities I have been amazed at the ability of the anti-gentrification crowd's ability to keep cities retrograde by fighting transit and anything that would cement change. I think there's a poverty industrial complex that is just as powerful toward this end as the highway lobby at the end of the day.

I think this is all pretty accurate. Regarding Page Woodson, that's the reason for the mixed-income emphasis. Ultimately the NE Renaissance will be tied to the rise and/or fall of black lives in this country, and if they can do better as we all hope, that geographic community will consequently improve along w its demographic. It could potentially be what OCURA has been working toward all along with the JFK neighborhood, Page Woodson, and other NE projects - the full restoration of a thriving black neighborhood.

That said, there are some threats still out there. I'm surprised ODOT is more interested in three new peripheral highways than they are in widening 235 downtown, which will probably happen someday. The boulevard is an ongoing threat.

Arkansas literally just pulled up streetcar tracks in Little Rock to widen their downtown freeway and add an exit by the Clinton Library. Cincinnati is trying to sabotage its streetcar with traffic signalization that keeps it stranded for several minutes at every single block. There are always unfathomable, unforeseeable threats, because I am convinced that there are powers that be that genuinely do not want a successful urban core.

I think a lot of these anti-gentrification liberals, anti-urban conservatives, and anti-infrastructure / pro-highway Republicans are all on the same team, benefiting the same special interests, just going at it from different directions. In bigger, older cities I have been amazed at the ability of the anti-gentrification crowd's ability to keep cities retrograde by fighting transit and anything that would cement change. I think there's a poverty industrial complex that is just as powerful toward this end as the highway lobby at the end of the day.
Anti-highway/infrastructure!? Are highways and freeways not infrastructure?

Anti-highway/infrastructure!? Are highways and freeways not infrastructure?

I feel he was going for the "Anti-public-transit-infrastructure".

Yeah it will be interesting to see Trump DOT attempt infrastructure tax credits with infrastructure that people aren't used to paying for (roadways), as opposed that which we are (transit). This whole public-private partnership model depends on capturing some kind of revenue to pay back bonds and whatever other layers of financing.

When is the last time the numbers on this survey were updated?

When is the last time the numbers on this survey were updated?

I update it all the time.

Need to add a couple of small projects and FNC"s 200 apartments.

Whats a good location for a downtown/bricktown/midtown CVS or Walgreen's? its a surprise to me there isn't one yet.

Whats a good location for a downtown/bricktown/midtown CVS or Walgreen's? its a surprise to me there isn't one yet.

CVS had a tentative deal to go into the Century Center a couple of years ago then backed out at the last minute.

They are going into that Times Square development(has another placer name been chosen yet?) along with a grocery store, right?

They are going into that Times Square development(has another placer name been chosen yet?) along with a grocery store, right?

I'm sure they've talked to CVS and/or Walgreens but no deal has been struck for that site and they are probably a few years out before building it.

I just did a full update on this summary.

I updated the article in the 1st post of this thread to reflect a bunch of new projects.

I updated the article in the 1st post of this thread to reflect a bunch of new projects.

Are you including projects that are in-the-works, or only completed projects?

Are you including projects that are in-the-works, or only completed projects?

In the works (as in formally announced) but I'm behind in updating the list.

Actually, keeping all this stuff updated is a crazy amount of work and very few people seem to care, so I've slacked off. I'll keep doing it, just not as frequently.

Pete you should keep it up! I know you’re busy though! Myself—I’m sure others—really appreciates this list and the urban project summary and I often find I’m going through it at least once a month; I still get excited every time.

Pete you should keep it up! I know you’re busy though! Myself—I’m sure others—really appreciates this list and the urban project summary and I often find I’m going through it at least once a month; I still get excited every time.

That's good to know.

I'll update both soon.

That's good to know.

I'll update both soon.
I know I’ll be looking forward to it! Much thanks ����

I just updated this.

Please provide any additions/corrections.

I left Times Square and the Sycamore Square addition, but they are almost certainly dead at this point.

Added Boulevard Place and 700 West.

What about the proposed small condo development in Sosa?

What about the proposed small condo development in Sosa?

Do you mean SoSA Townhomes or Cirrus?

Both or on the list.

^^ it’s the one straight across from Cirrus.

^^ it’s the one straight across from Cirrus.

if you mean the 3 units to the east, that project is dead.

Any idea of what our number of downtown residents is now?

Just got back from Nashville and couldn't believe all the development, more than anything I had ever seen in Austin, Dallas or Charlotte. Read an article that DT Nashville currently has 12,000 residents living downtown and projected 20,000 by 2022. I would kill to have 1/100 of the development going on that they have. (which is hard to imaging with everything we have going on, but what we have doesn't even touch the surface to them) Would love to see a lot of their midrise dense development around the Gulch or Vandy take place around Scissortail Park.

If you ask DOKC they will tell you between 9-11K, depending on which figures you use.

Either the number I saw on Nashville were way off or DOKC is way off with their numbers. If DT OKC has 9-11k people living in it then there is no reason we shouldn’t have and sustain much more retail, a full service grocery and more.