can people from the forum attend?

I sure hope there is some vocal and numerical opposition to this monstrosity; particularly since Rand had 'resistance' to an otherwise URBAN modern midrise that is light years ahead of this thing that should never be concocted.

Yes, all design review meetings are open to the public and anyone can speak.

Pete, I mispoke my question.

I meant to say, does anyone from the forum plan to attend and voice their opinion on this monstrosity? If I lived-in OKC I surely would be one of the 'hopefully' many who would show up. I hope folks can find the time. ...

fingers-crossed!!!

Again, just feel the need to point out that this falls within DTD-1 rather than DBD, which is where Broadway Park falls. DTD-1, as a transitional district, has somewhat less stringent requirements and is not obligated to take as many design cues from its surroundings. It's great if people want to go and get involved with the public process, but I would advise that you know the zoning differences between the two, lest your efforts be a waste of your time and effort.

Here's a map of the design overlays: https://www.okc.gov/home/showdocument?id=2606

And here is the handout that explains the various ordinances related to each design destrict: https://www.okc.gov/home/showdocument?id=4694

I would advise against shooting from the hip over sujective taste issues or personal differences you might have with someone involved with a project. If you want to take issue with something, would advise that you find something in the ordinance that backs up your viewpoint.

The issues with the setbacks, materials and lack of windows were all mentioned in the report by city planning staff, BTW.

WTF are they building that out of? Dowel rods? It looks like the interior of Café 501 in Classen Curve.

And where are the balconies?

Rand designed Cafe 501 too.

Rand designed Cafe 501 too.

I think he designed all the restaurants in Classen Curve (Café 501, Republic, Upper Crust) besides Tucker's.

Approved.

What a terrible design.

Again, just feel the need to point out that this falls within DTD-1 rather than DBD, which is where Broadway Park falls. DTD-1, as a transitional district, has somewhat less stringent requirements and is not obligated to take as many design cues from its surroundings. It's great if people want to go and get involved with the public process, but I would advise that you know the zoning differences between the two, lest your efforts be a waste of your time and effort.

Here's a map of the design overlays: https://www.okc.gov/home/showdocument?id=2606

And here is the handout that explains the various ordinances related to each design destrict: https://www.okc.gov/home/showdocument?id=4694

I would advise against shooting from the hip over sujective taste issues or personal differences you might have with someone involved with a project. If you want to take issue with something, would advise that you find something in the ordinance that backs up your viewpoint.

Why did this go to the DDRC for approval? The map in the link shows that DTD-1 goes to the UDC.

Why did this go to the DDRC for approval? The map in the link shows that DTD-1 goes to the UDC.

DTD-1 goes to the DDRC.

In five years, add this to Steve Lackmeyer's ugliest buildings in OKC list.

I like the current shipping container place holder more than I like this design.

I'll reserve judgment until its complete but I'm surprised that so many people feel strongly against it.

^^^^^^^
Agreed. I think people are letting their opinions regarding the Broadway Park debate too heavily influence opinions regarding this building. I predict it will be one of those that, as it nears completion, people will quickly change their minds about.

The same complaints regarding lack of urbanist approach can be leveled at buildings in the Boathouse District, but few people go out of their way to dog the design as it's easy there to recognize the fact that a bold architectural statement is also being made; one that goes counter to the perceptions of non-OKC residents. This is likely to be another one of those types of buildings.

I think people are letting their opinions regarding the Broadway Park debate too heavily influence opinions regarding this building.

Or maybe people just think the design sucks.

Or maybe people just think the design sucks.

I'm not a fan really any of his designs. They all seem to ignore urban principles and seem to be built to look good on Google Earth, and not from up close. I just can't see how this building looks good.

Or maybe people just think the design sucks.

Do I know you? Seems like about the only times I notice you posting here is when you're making a super ****ty reply to one of my posts.

I'll reserve judgment until its complete but I'm surprised that so many people feel strongly against it.

It's kinda like stage center... people either liked it or hated it... and for whatever reason, I don't know why, when I first saw this design, it made me think of a modernized stage center. the design of which I did not like. Nothing to do with other projects. I like some of Rand's other work. And I'd be pleased to be wrong about this. I hope it's just one of those projects that looks better built than on paper.

Do I know you? Seems like about the only times I notice you posting here is when you're making a super ****ty reply to one of my posts.

Really? Feel free to check my post history. Either you must be super paranoid or one of those "the world revolves around me" types. If all it takes is to disagree with you on a couple of issues to get you worked up then maybe you should avoid forums that promote open discussion.

^^^^^^^
Agreed. I think people are letting their opinions regarding the Broadway Park debate too heavily influence opinions regarding this building. I predict it will be one of those that, as it nears completion, people will quickly change their minds about.

The same complaints regarding lack of urbanist approach can be leveled at buildings in the Boathouse District, but few people go out of their way to dog the design as it's easy there to recognize the fact that a bold architectural statement is also being made; one that goes counter to the perceptions of non-OKC residents. This is likely to be another one of those types of buildings.

I was "meh" about Broadway Park design. I'm "no" on this design.

I wouldn't level urban complaints against the Boathouse District because it's a river-oriented district with a separate set of design goals. No comparison.

Enter the light: Committee approves design of new Oklahoma Contemporary campus

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record July 21, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – The Oklahoma Contemporary Arts Center is one step closer to permanently moving downtown.

The Downtown Design Review Committee approved the center’s new campus at 1200 N. Broadway Ave. It is expected to open in fall 2018.

“It’s been a long time since we had a significant cultural facility built in this city,” said Liz Eckman, director of the Kirkpatrick Family Fund.

The organization gave $8 million to the $26 million capital campaign. The Kirkpatrick Family Foundation has committed $2 million toward the campaign, and the arts center has raised 60 percent of its $26 million goal.

Eckman said the last cultural facility built in the city was likely the Oklahoma City Museum of Art, which opened in 2002.

The Oklahoma Contemporary Arts Center campus will feature a new 54,000-square-foot, four-story building; a renovated 10,000-square-foot building; and a three-block arts park. Architect Rand Elliott designed the main structure, which is called Folding Light.

“It celebrates the stunning Oklahoma light,” he said.

The building’s first floor will have five classrooms and an early-childhood area. The second floor will have a 5,800-square-foot gallery, a photography classroom, a multimedia laboratory, staff offices and two balconies that can be used as outdoor classrooms or event spaces. The third floor is designed with a 150-seat theater, a dance/rehearsal space and a performing arts lobby. The fourth floor will have a theater mezzanine and staff offices.

The remodeled 10,000-square-foot building will house an industrial arts program.

“We are very excited about our growth,” said Jeremiah Davis, artistic director with Oklahoma Contemporary. “Based on our extensive research, we think this will add to the cultural life in the city.”

The DDRC had a few questions for Elliott about the design. There were concerns about the vinyl-coated chain-link fence that separates the property from the railroad tracks to the east. The chain-link fence is not within downtown design regulations; however, the material is being used throughout downtown as part of the railroad’s quiet-area project.

Urban design planner Lisa Chronister said guidelines regarding how the building sits on the site and the amount of windows in the first-floor classrooms do not apply since it’s such an isolated site.

“This is a destination place,” she said. “People know they’re going there.”

Elliott will still need variances on the setback distance, the service area screening, trash screening and the vinyl fencing.

The project almost did not get approved Thursday. Committee member Danielle Theriault asked if there could be a continuance so more committee members could be present and ask questions. Only four of the seven members attended.

Elliott said the project will break ground in September, so he’d rather not have a continuance because his team is preparing construction documents. Theriault voted against approving the design.

“It’s a beautiful project,” said committee member GiGi Faulkner. “It’s such an outstanding contribution to the arts in our city.”

The Oklahoma Contemporary staff gave a quiet clap once the committee gave its approval. Davis said they were confident it would be allowed to move forward.

Do I know you? Seems like about the only times I notice you posting here is when you're making a super ****ty reply to one of my posts.

Their comment was directed at the design and not an attack on you. It's okay for people to disagree...

I'll reserve judgment until its complete but I'm surprised that so many people feel strongly against it.

Pretty much hate it

I'm not a fan really any of his designs. They all seem to ignore urban principles and seem to be built to look good on Google Earth, and not from up close. I just can't see how this building looks good.

Yes, this is how I feel. He ignores the human scale and human tenancies to make something that looks interesting from a drone. Just look at the sidewalks at the river. They arent in places where people are walking, but only in paths that look "cool" if you're looking from above. Same for when he tore out mature trees and put in new sidewalks in front of the civic center.

Their comment was directed at the design and not an attack on you. It's okay for people to disagree...

Nah, there is a series of posts where he comes after me pretty directly. There's a pattern. All you have to do is check the first few pages of his posting history to see three or four of them. Before that it was mostly reserved for Spartan and JTF.

Really? Feel free to check my post history. Either you must be super paranoid or one of those "the world revolves around me" types. If all it takes is to disagree with you on a couple of issues to get you worked up then maybe you should avoid forums that promote open discussion.

I did. Before I even posted that comment. Thanks for the advice, though.

Edit: looked further back and it seems like your dislike for me possibly started over comments I made about Bricktown Towers being iffy. Or maybe before I guess; just wasn't interested in going back further. Either way, whatever. Just wondering if I knew you.

For me, I think the design is interesting. My only complaint is the location of the entrance. I'd prefer it facing the transit route.

Elliott said the project will break ground in September, so he’d rather not have a continuance because his team is preparing construction documents. Theriault voted against approving the design.

oh the irony. He has no problem putting his foot down and imposing extra cost and hassle to another developer, over personal taste. Yet when it comes to touching his precious little baby, he doesn't want any part of it.

For me, I think the design is interesting. My only complaint is the location of the entrance. I'd prefer it facing the transit route.

The design is a nonissue for me, but this is my gripe as well. Flip the structure 180 degrees so the entrance faces the street corner instead of the parking lot.

Having just moved from near Houston's Museum District, the actual designs of the museum buildings down there were hit or miss (and not overly pedestrian friendly), but many/most of their entrances faced the street, increasing the amount of sidewalk vitality and spillover into nearby restaurants from visitors.

They filed their building permit today; not wasting any time.

oh the irony. He has no problem putting his foot down and imposing extra cost and hassle to another developer, over personal taste. Yet when it comes to touching his precious little baby, he doesn't want any part of it.

Exactly. I asked Steve about his thoughts between the two today. The last sentence is the most important.

Gary T: What are your thoughts on the design of Broadway Park versus the proposed Contemporary Arts Center? I find it interesting Rand would be opposed to balconies on BP and then he proposes something like the CAC.

Steve Lackmeyer: I saw very uneven treatment given by the Downtown Design Review Committee when it came to the two projects. I question whether project review is becoming a popularity contest.

I actually think there are two things driving the response to this building. The first is... People in OKC generally don't like modernist architecture. They like contemporary, they sometimes like mid century modern redos, but not really hard core modernist stuff. It at least had a hand in the outcome of Stage Center.

The second thing is... Even as a modernist building, this design is kind of weird and not in a good way. I feel like someone is trying to make an homage to something but is critically missing the mark.

So it's modernist, and it's bad at that. Double whammy.

I did. Before I even posted that comment. Thanks for the advice, though.

Edit: looked further back and it seems like your dislike for me possibly started over comments I made about Bricktown Towers being iffy. Or maybe before I guess; just wasn't interested in going back further. Either way, whatever. Just wondering if I knew you.

Wow, you must be super thin-skinned if you find any of my comments to be "super ****ty". You seem to take it personally if someone disagrees with you. I come to this site to get news and varying ideas about OKC. I've learned a lot by listening to people with views that differ from mine and have also changed my views based on others' ideas that I've read here. This site would be pretty boring if everyone had the same opinions.

In the future I'd advise you to PM me if you have a problem or a question rather than sidetracking the thread and airing your insecurities in public.

Nah, there is a series of posts where he comes after me pretty directly. There's a pattern. All you have to do is check the first few pages of his posting history to see three or four of them. Before that it was mostly reserved for Spartan and JTF.

In my defense, there were plenty of others that had disagreements with Spartan and JTF.:)

...In the future I'd advise you to PM me if you have a problem or a question rather than sidetracking the thread and airing your insecurities in public.
Hey, I'm not the one hurling insults ("thin-skinned," "insecurities..."). I asked a simple question; whether or not I know you. I have plenty of disagreements on this board (this is well-documented) but haven't ever really felt like I had specific ongoing conflict with anyone.

You're the only one who sticks out as someone who routinely hurls sarcastic comments in my direction. Made me wonder if you've got a specific issue with me. I asked a question, you've chosen to resort to insults instead of answering, so whatever. Not really interested in pursuing anything further.

I did. Before I even posted that comment. Thanks for the advice, though.

Edit: looked further back and it seems like your dislike for me possibly started over comments I made about Bricktown Towers being iffy. Or maybe before I guess; just wasn't interested in going back further. Either way, whatever. Just wondering if I knew you.

Who has this kind of time on their hands? This should be one of those times where the Admin steps in and says " back to the topic" I hope you guys get it figured out.

Who has this kind of time on their hands? This should be one of those times where the Admin steps in and says " back to the topic" I hope you guys get it figured out.

Part of why I crept back into lurking instead of commenting on things as much is because of how personal some people take these conversations. I enjoy broadening my horizons and being challenged by others in conversation, but sometimes it can be a little tricky to have real conversations on a message board with the personal -- sometimes self-righteous -- undertone that a number of posters post with. It can be difficult to learn from people that are overly faithful in their opinion and anyone that speaks against their opinion has a vendetta towards them.

Again, I've had many, many disagreements - even a few heated ones - on this board in a decade-ish of posting. First time I've ever questioned whether someone was following me around and trolling me. I asked a question, it went unanswered (but for a few more personal, ****ty comments) and at this point I'm fine with letting it be as-is.

Never mind. I'll repost later.

There will be a ground breaking Wednesday @ 5:30PM.

There is a certain amount of irony to this.

It is great architecture, but it's also excessively inward-focused, so much so that it's out of compliance with the zoning code. The same nuanced zoning code and set of overlays that Rand has used to sabotage other nearby projects that he argued were to impactful on the street. Should great architecture constrain itself to zoning code? Should new development have an impact on urban form or not?

Architecture vs planning

I believe in September or October of last year, a groundbreaking ceremony was held for Oklahoma Contemporary but at present, there's absolutely no construction going on. Was this merely symbolic? Is the project still on?

I believe in September or October of last year, a groundbreaking ceremony was held for Oklahoma Contemporary but at present, there's absolutely no construction going on. Was this merely symbolic? Is the project still on?

Yes, it was symbolic as they had to wait on building permits.

Should be starting for real very soon.

Dirt is now moving on this project:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/contemp020317.jpg

Work seems to have completely stopped for some reason.

Work seems to have completely stopped for some reason.

That was some preliminary underground work being done by the city.

Drove by today. Still no activity. Wonder if they're short on funding?

Drove by today. Still no activity. Wonder if they're short on funding?

Yeah, the city did some prep work a few months ago and now absolutely nothing has happened.

Concerning.

http://newsok.com/article/5520341 (September 2016)


The center has raised nearly 75 percent of the funds for Folding Light, and 60 percent of the $26 million needed for the entire project. Plans are to open in fall 2018.


Probably still just fundraising.....

Right, but strange they did a formal groundbreaking and the construction company set up a webcam, then nothing.

Drove by today for a closer look. Easements have been market with red flags and white flags. Don't know how long they've been in place but they appear to be new.

They are doing some utility work here but not sure when construction will start in earnest.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okcontemporary112217.jpg

Construction fence is up, they've demolished the paving and old parking and quite a bit of utility work has been performed as this project finally is moving forward.

To see the full design by Rand Elliott, go here: http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=300-Oklahoma-Contemporary-Museum-submits-design-plans-for-downtown-campus

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okcontemporary031718.jpg

14529

Would be great to see this building next to it become something.

Agree about the above building.

Instagram update:
https://scontent-dfw5-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/c6ce8d80646d00def10c9dfa7064ffb4/5B716C3A/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/29404049_208766079854944_1289233282566717440_n.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/contemporary041018.jpg

Thanks for the updated photo, Pete. Love seeing the progress.

https://m.okgazette.com/oklahoma/making-moves/Content?oid=3360672

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okcontemporary060318b.jpg