Do we know why the south-most unit is being built with concrete block while the others are all stick built?

Do we know why the south-most unit is being built with concrete block while the others are all stick built?

see here https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=29042&p=1018785#post1018785

the corner is multi family

Oh nice, missed that, thanks!

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Love the density of this area!

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Remains one of my favorite projects. Note the roof pitch of the new construction match that of the old buildings.

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Beautiful infill project...one of my favorites...

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The pics are great, but I went by yesterday and I think they look even better in person. Big win in MidTown

The pics are great, but I went by yesterday and I think they look even better in person. Big win in MidTown
Yep. Looks awesome.

Most the units are over $1 million and all are around $425/SF.

Squre footage on them? Units per building?

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I just can't get over how well the land has been used i this area. Almost every project has just nailed urban design principles. The change from 15 years ago is astounding. I've probably posted this same sentiment on 10 different Midtown threads. lol

^^^^

I agree (building-wise), excellent execution overall in midtown and most of downtown - with a few exceptions:

1) we didn't bury the utility lines
2) we didn't add in urban lighting and
3) trees that front the street separating from the sidewalk (we allow too many suburban style developments with trees fronting the building and the sidewalk fronting the street)

4) there's too few storefronts - I know the argument, oh they will sit empty. But not forever. If the development doesn't include storefronts in its very design then it NEVER will exist vs. if it's built in design then it could be leased once the population density warrants.

In my opinion, EVERY development in the urban core needs to have THESE 4) principles in addition to 5) sidewalks separated from the street (by trees/lighting/transit).

THAT is the dense, safe, urban design that YES we're much better than before but if we adopted in principle for nearly every development then we'd have the urban downtown we all are striving for and can compete with other major cities. ...

I agree with all your points. In which recently built/renovated Midtown buildings would you like to see more storefronts? Seems like they did pretty well on that, no?

I love how this is coming along. It definitely gives a more urban feel to the area. Now, if only the mid/high rise apartment building across the street would come to fruition.

I agree with all your points. In which recently built/renovated Midtown buildings would you like to see more storefronts? Seems like they did pretty well on that, no?

In that neighborhood - looking at the picture; I think Edge is sorely lacking in retail. It is a modern design very well executed but there should be the first floor LINED with storefronts on all four sides.

I agree Midtown has done very well, better than other districts other than Auto Alley (which were storefronts anyway). But my point was that we should extend that design to all of downtown - deep deuce is the prime culprit: once a thriving African American downtown!!! today has little to no retail or even options for it. Yet there are many Edge sized apartment developments that should have the first floor lined with storefronts - that could be rented and liven that district.

My point on pedestrian interaction with the streets is still very valid even in most of downtown - THAT should be another condition for the city and developers; we need URBAN sidewalk design not pedestrians basically walking on the street still.

Just so you know, all those storefronts in Midtown are suffering and were long before the pandemic.

It's fine to want retail at ground level but for the most part, those types of businesses in the downtown area are not viable.

Same with Auto Alley.

I'm sad to say we are likely to see several of these businesses close before long.

similarly, i wonder if any of the retail ever went into the steelyard? plenty of space for it, but the retail storefronts were completely empty the last time i saw it. i'd guess the situation is unchanged, but we moved offices this past august and so i'm not constantly in the area anymore to know for sure.

^

Nope.

I think there may be a yoga studio and little else.

Been trying to market that space for several years. Same with the BOK Park Plaza; retail space is still completely vacant apart from Hot Tamale.

Restaurants generally work but people need to release the fantasy of scores of little retail shops in the core. The trend is entirely the other direction and those that are currently operating have been struggling to stay open well before the pandemic.

similarly, i wonder if any of the retail ever went into the steelyard? plenty of space for it, but the retail storefronts were completely empty the last time i saw it. i'd guess the situation is unchanged, but we moved offices this past august and so i'm not constantly in the area anymore to know for sure.

I believe there is one storefront over there that says some type of breakfast joint is "coming Fall 2021"

Pete, I'm not arguing that building retail storefronts will fill them up now or even pre-pandemic. What I'm arguing is we should mandate building storefronts (or some %) for each development because if we don't then we WONT be able to have the storefront - period.

I think it's ok to have vacancies; the market should respond appropriately. OKC has a huge dearth in mom-pop retail downtown; this was likely due to 'artificially' high rents due to very few storefronts. .. Cities often mandate this type of density in their cores, its time for OKC.

OKC still doesn't even have a streetfront convenience store in the CBD nor elsewhere in downtown and hasn't since the 1970s despite 7-11 being HQ here. ... Lack of affordable storefronts is my guess.

^

I didn't mean to come across as disagreeing with you or with the concept of more storefronts in the core.

Just trying to add some perspective because I know almost all the existing businesses have been struggling and I'm not sure how to make street fronts viable in the future.

I went on a tour of Villa Teresa this weekend while the Downtown Home Tour was happening.

Here is a handout they had available; I believe this is the same as what’s on their website.

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That prominent large empty lot of green grass...is that where The Elliot was proposed a couple of years ago. I recall there was some controversy because of the height of the building.

That prominent large empty lot of green grass...is that where The Elliot was proposed a couple of years ago. I recall there was some controversy because of the height of the building.

Yes, that is the site of the proposed Elliott condo tower.

last i heard the boutique hotel portion of this overall project is still a go

last i heard the boutique hotel portion of this overall project is still a go

They have received TIF funding for it.

My understanding is that First Unitarian Church is getting a freshly-paved and expanded parking lot out of this deal (at the expense of having their once private drive become an access point for the entire development).

Yes, that is the site of the proposed Elliott condo tower.
Is that project completely dead?

What I'm arguing is we should mandate building storefronts (or some %) for each development because if we don't then we WONT be able to have the storefront - period.

I think it's ok to have vacancies; the market should respond appropriately. OKC has a huge dearth in mom-pop retail downtown; this was likely due to 'artificially' high rents due to very few storefronts. .. Cities often mandate this type of density in their cores, its time for OKC.

If you mandate storefronts in every development you'll just end up with a bunch of empty storefronts. The problem is demand, and that stems from the infrastructure decisions we have made and, largely, continue to make. Downtown retail requires several things to survive: 1) enough rooftops nearby to yield a supply of steady customers, 2) a critical mass of other retail establishments in biking distance (and preferably, walking distance), which enables serendipitous discovery of stores one might not originally have sought out, and 3) traditional things like unique products, good service, etc. Plenty of Downtown retailers exceed at number 3 but through no fault of their own number 1 and number 2 are largely out of reach still. (You could argue that N Walker Ave between NW 10 and NW 13 is on the verge of that critical mass, though.)

Downtown retail would be far better off if we, as a city, had made biking and pedestrian infrastructure and public transit a larger priority years ago. Things are getting better, but we have a long way to go. This stems from the same issue as the missing downtown grocery store. *Even if you live downtown* you largely have to drive to the various retail storefronts we have, and *even in our relatively dense districts* these stores are islands. Someone living at Villa Teresa is probably not going to walk to Shop Good in Auto Alley. They could take the streetcar but that would take longer than it would to drive. And then once the person gets to Shop Good that's the only place they're likely to go. There's no retail fabric to grab on to. And then there's a paradox - to improve the health of Downtown and Midtown retail, long-term, you need to do things like eliminate traffic lanes and parking spots in favor of bike lanes and sidewalks, but if you do that, the currently-extant retail is in big trouble, because all of their current customers arrive via car. Once you surrender to the car, there's no reason to drive to Shop Good. It becomes a simple decision (not one that I agree with, but I see the logic): Penn Square is way easier to navigate and has a bigger selection.

we wont have retail critical mass if we don't request retail to be in MOST developments. I'm not saying every but we should strive for most in the downtown area and much of the inner city.

Critical mass of supply will create affordible lease rates which will lead to more retail offering which will lead to retail critical mass.

Now, you're absolutely right about 1 - rooftops and as Rover mentions we need to increase density in downtown to the highest levels. This too will allow downtown to become more affordable which will increase rooftops feeding the local retail.

I think the city needs to be the chicken to lay the egg with a push for more density in both retail space and rooftops in the core of the city. The market will then respond and we'll have the vibrant core (beyond what we currently have) that we all want and can truly be proud to show off. Automobile Alley seems to be the best example of this in the state so far. ..

Right, I think we agree in general terms. My point is simply that mandating retail space in every Downtown development without changing the other aspects of the development situation won’t have the intended effect. For one, we’d never achieve the required density for successful retail Downtown without significantly reducing our dependence on cars. And most of the factors that require one to be dependent upon cars are mediated by the city government. Our densest parts of Downtown (in terms of residents, not workers) are all basically big parking garages with apartments wrapped around the outside, like LIFT, The Edge, and The Metropolitan. The very road upon which this development sits is a big old boulevard with a laughably small traffic count in the middle of our Downtown. Until we can figure out how to change that, it’s my opinion that Downtown and Midtown are not going to be able to support retail except for in a handful of special situations.

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According to their website https://www.villateresaokc.com/availability :

17 total units
2 Sold
2 Reserved
13 available

There is one of the flats priced at $650,000. The remaining dozen units range from $945,000 - $1,175,000.

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One of my favorite projects!

$945,000 - $1,175,000? Good luck, it's gonna take some time to sell these units.

I’m worried about this project, but perhaps I shouldn’t be. I went on a tour of these units with a large group of people and the inside of the units weren’t really what I was expecting for the price they’re asking. I was underwhelmed. It’s very vanilla inside—not much architecturally unique and finishes seem relatively plain. As we were leaving, I overheard several people comment how shocked they were at the asking prices. That tour was 4 months ago and at that time they had sold one unit and had two reserved, so it doesn’t look like they’ve made much progress.

Maybe I just had unrealistically high expectations because I am a big fan of what Marva and crew have done here.

i'm surprised they didn't go with traditional bricks. those big blocks are fine in a retaining wall, but just not that interesting when showcased as the primary building material.

I’m worried about this project, but perhaps I shouldn’t be. I went on a tour of these units with a large group of people and the inside of the units weren’t really what I was expecting for the price they’re asking. I was underwhelmed. It’s very vanilla inside—not much architecturally unique and finishes seem relatively plain. As we were leaving, I overheard several people comment how shocked they were at the asking prices. That tour was 4 months ago and at that time they had sold one unit and had two reserved, so it doesn’t look like they’ve made much progress.

Maybe I just had unrealistically high expectations because I am a big fan of what Marva and crew have done here.

Was that the ULI tour?

I'm under the impression they've left a lot up to the future homeowner. For example the elevator shaft is still a raw shaft. If the future homeowner wants to pay to install an elevator they're do that. If not they'll build out the floors so they can be used as storage or what have you.

I was underwhelmed. It’s very vanilla inside—not much architecturally unique and finishes seem relatively plain.

Me too, nice infill project, but not so exciting, architecturally.

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Great pics, Pete!

I know these will sell. Just might be in 2022. The location is too great.

Plans have been submitted for the hotel conversion.

The condos along Dewey are complete although most of them are waiting for buyers before they are completely finished out on the inside. According to their website (https://www.villateresaokc.com/availability), 6 of the 17 units have been sold.


illa Teresa Convent and School, an institution in Oklahoma City for over 75 years, was established on a residential block by the Carmelite Sisters of St. Therese in 1933. Gradually, the Sisters purchased several contiguous properties from 1933 to 1970. The first property purchased, a 2-1/2 story Colonial Revival style residence built in 1917-1918, was used as a pre-school and residence for the sisters. To accommodate a growing enrollment and add more grades, additional lots and residences were purchased. By 1970 the campus was comprised of three of the early 20th century homes original to the block, the 1950 school built by the sisters, and the 1967 convent addition to the most stately home. The beloved school shut down in 2012 and has remained in waiting for a new purpose.

The soon to new boutique hotel with extensive restaurant offerings, meeting rooms, and mix of contemplative private outdoor rooms and exciting site amenities are anticipated for a 2022 opening. The historic campus was listed on the National Register of Historic Places on September 2020.


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Condos are pretty much complete and work should be starting soon on the renovation of the historic buildings for the hotel.

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Took this yesterday (5/31).

Condos and townhomes are pretty much complete; work should start very soon on the boutique hotel which will convert most of the original buildings and add a pool and other amenities in the middle near the cluster of trees.

To the middle left is the construction site for The Spaniard apartments.

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Was the bike lane removed from this street?

You can still sorta see it in the photo toward the intersection, and it still shows on the ACOG interactive map, but I'll hit them up to see what the intent is there.

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nice and green! Some tulsa folks think okc doesn't have trees

Update on the bike lane on Dewey, got a response from planning:


Yes, Dewey is actually something I’ve wondered about before, and I actually plan to do a little investigating into how this bike lane came to be. They show up on the earliest available Google street view in 2007, meaning they’ve existed for at least 15 years. There is a bike lane on only one side of the street from NW 36th down to NW 23rd, then disappear from 23rd to 13th (my guess is that Mesta/HH didn’t want to lose on-street parking for it), then continues from 13th to 11th, as you noted, and finally picks back up at 7th and continues down to 4th.

Bottom line: This is something we need to hash out in the bikewalkokc update (we’re getting close to wrapping up the pedestrian section, then moving along to bike and trails). I’m not inclined to want to take a bike lane away if the work has already been done to limit on-street parking and stripe it in, so I think we’re leaning toward wanting to keep and improve upon that bike route. While the street is too narrow to stripe bike lanes on both sides, I would still think it’s important to include both directions on the route. I’ve seen other cities that have streets with a bike lane on one side and sharrows on the opposite side, which we would be okay with if it’s a low-speed low-traffic street, like Dewey.

They recently put the hotel conversion construction out for re-bid, so nothing happening here yet:

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Once home to the Carmelite Convent and a private school, Villa Teresa closed in 2012 and then was purchased by preservationists who sought to preserve but repurpose the beautiful property in Midtown.


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Several new-construction condos and townhomes have been built and sold on what had been vacant along the east boundary.

Now, work has commenced to convert most of the original buildings into a boutique hotel.

It will include a pool, pool house, food service, and 70 rooms for guests.

The plans show that the buildings will be preserved and refreshed on the outside, while the interiors will see total makeovers.



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