Yea, I remember in a similar discussion a while back someone arguing Tulsa was in a far better position than OKC but after looking at some of the responses to the Olympics in Tulsa it looks like there national image is not significantly different.

Yeah, saw some of the comments on Deadspin and kind of cringed LOL.

Tulsa might be able to host the Olympics. In 2052 or so. It's not that Tulsa necessarily has a bad reputation, they're just out of their league here. It's like me saying I'm going to try to date Jessica Alba. Even if I'm only kind of goofy looking, she's out of my league.

Yeah, saw some of the comments on Deadspin and kind of cringed LOL.

Here in Oklahoma, Tulsa frequently tries to assert itself as the cultural capital of the state. The fact cool retail, restaurants, and bars usually end up in Tulsa before OKC kind of backs up that perception. The reality though is outside of Oklahoma people love to hate both cities about equally. People don't associate Tulsa with an arts or hipster culture, they associate it with Oral Roberts.

Here in Oklahoma, Tulsa frequently tries to assert itself as the cultural capital of the state. The fact cool retail, restaurants, and bars usually end up in Tulsa before OKC kind of backs up that perception. The reality though is outside of Oklahoma people love to hate both cities about equally. People don't associate Tulsa with an arts or hipster culture, they associate it with Oral Roberts.

People don't love to hate either one unless you're in a surrounding state and rivalry issues come up. Get away from this area and people just don't think about either city at all. When I think Buffalo, NY, I think "cold". When I think Montpelier, VT, I think "that's the capital of Vermont". When I think Boise, ID, I think "potato". These are not really negative perceptions, it's just that I spend about zero minutes of my week thinking about them. The positive spin that OKC has been receiving just means when people here about us, they think "oh yeah I think they have a basketball team, guess they have a lot of oil companies".

I think the one thing OKC is really lacking is a strong cultural/musical legacy or anything that makes it unique, and that stems simply from how OKC developed. Austin being the 'live music capital of the world' is one of the things that really helped it get the reputation it has. Memphis has the blues and Nashville has country. Dallas had the 1980s soap opera, Houston has the space program. Oklahoma City isn't really known for much except for tornadoes and the occasional right wing politician who says something embarrassing.

The one thing OKC does have which it should capitalize on more that is unique is the Native American heritage. That's why I believe it will be great for the city if/when the Native American cultural center opens.

I think the one thing OKC is really lacking is a strong cultural/musical legacy or anything that makes it unique, and that stems simply from how OKC developed. Austin being the 'live music capital of the world' is one of the things that really helped it get the reputation it has. Memphis has the blues and Nashville has country. Dallas had the 1980s soap opera, Houston has the space program. Oklahoma City isn't really known for much except for tornadoes and the occasional right wing politician who says something embarrassing.

The one thing OKC does have which it should capitalize on more that is unique is the Native American heritage. That's why I believe it will be great for the city if/when the Native American cultural center opens.

Like a lot of city pride slogans, live music capital of the world seems to be overselling it. At minimum New York, LA and Vegas have them beat in America. London and at least a few others will be better on the world stage.

I think the one thing OKC is really lacking is a strong cultural/musical legacy or anything that makes it unique, and that stems simply from how OKC developed. Austin being the 'live music capital of the world' is one of the things that really helped it get the reputation it has. Memphis has the blues and Nashville has country. Dallas had the 1980s soap opera, Houston has the space program. Oklahoma City isn't really known for much except for tornadoes and the occasional right wing politician who says something embarrassing.

The one thing OKC does have which it should capitalize on more that is unique is the Native American heritage. That's why I believe it will be great for the city if/when the Native American cultural center opens.

Oklahoma is the birthplace of red dirt music. Maybe we could do something with that.

Austin's music scene is something that has built up over the last 40 or so years. It benefited from a few different things occuring near the same time. About the time that Willie had grown weary of the Nashville scene and went back to Texas, Armadillo World Headquarters was making a name for itself. Willie got involved in this scene and invited some of his fellow country artists who he knew were also fed up with Nashville. The Armadillo holds an important place in the development of the Austin Music scene but the owners were never financially successful with it (even though that had tons of great acts coming through) and had to shut it down some ten years later.

When I think of Houston, I don't really think of the space program. Houston's identity to me is sprawl. Which Dallas is making a strong run at that title now as their metroplex reaches nearly to Denton.

I hope for good things for the Native American cultural center too. I've long said, even on these boards, that OKC needs to embrace it's cowboy heritage. Dallas certianly has yet it's still cosmopolitan. Our cowboy and indian heritage is what makes us unique. When people who've never been to Oklahoma come here, they want to see cowboys, the old west and indians. Let's give them some of that. That used to be the reason to travel. To see how things were different over there. To see what they had that was different from your home. Now days we're becoming so homogonized that we're losing the reason for travel and the uniqueness of our towns and cities. You can get the same thing at Pei Wei here that you get in Miami. Our Apple store has the same thing as the one in Baltimore. Etc. and so on.

I agree, when you shy away from the Western heritage, it just comes off as insecure. It CAN be embraced with a modern interpretation.

I know that this veers a bit from the original subject, but it is amusing in light of the current discussion about OKC and Texas. 10 US cities that thrived despite the heat | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2013/07/04/10-us-cities-that-would-have-sucked-without-air-conditioning/)

The comment about Houston is pretty funny.

I agree, when you shy away from the Western heritage, it just comes off as insecure. It CAN be embraced with a modern interpretation.

Agreed. Nashville is probably the best example of this. They have stayed true to their country roots but have made it 'chic' which is what must be done to be attractive to the younger generation.

I think the one thing OKC is really lacking is a strong cultural/musical legacy or anything that makes it unique, and that stems simply from how OKC developed. Austin being the 'live music capital of the world' is one of the things that really helped it get the reputation it has. Memphis has the blues and Nashville has country. Dallas had the 1980s soap opera, Houston has the space program. Oklahoma City isn't really known for much except for tornadoes and the occasional right wing politician who says something embarrassing.

The one thing OKC does have which it should capitalize on more that is unique is the Native American heritage. That's why I believe it will be great for the city if/when the Native American cultural center opens.

Oklahoma City is well known for its musicians. It doesn't have a Chamber-derived "Live Music Capital of the World" slogan, but whatever. Culturally, OKC has a good and varied music scene. What we need is a better venue, however.

For what it's worth, I'm pro-God and pro-Gay, pro-legalization of pot, and pro-gay marriage. So where does that put me?

To add to your post, we have a few more progressives besides the two you mentioned but I hear you loud and clear and agree 100%.

A reasonable person?

People don't love to hate either one unless you're in a surrounding state and rivalry issues come up. Get away from this area and people just don't think about either city at all. When I think Buffalo, NY, I think "cold". When I think Montpelier, VT, I think "that's the capital of Vermont". When I think Boise, ID, I think "potato". These are not really negative perceptions, it's just that I spend about zero minutes of my week thinking about them. The positive spin that OKC has been receiving just means when people here about us, they think "oh yeah I think they have a basketball team, guess they have a lot of oil companies".

Probably one of the most accurate statements made in this thread. Once you get away from the immediate area, no one gives OKC or Oklahoma for that matter, much thought if any.

When I travel and I mention Oklahoma at all, the first comment or question is always about tornadoes. Not the Thunder. The low unemployment. The low cost of living. The weather. At the end of the day people outside of our immediate area really don't care either way, so we just need to focus on making the place enjoyable for us. We've made good strides in that department, but still have a ways to go when it comes to improving cultural diversity, tolerance, and overall excellent quality of living. A lot I feel will take place as the generations move along.

No offense venture79, but weather is just an easy out for many people who don't know how to make decent conversation. When I lived in Phoenix it was the same thing, "oh it's so hot there, how do you stand it?" Hell I've heard people even go for the "rain" talk to people from Seattle.

For some, the weather is all they know :)

The word "Diversity" and "Oklahoma City" in the same sentence...... Yeah we have a long ways to go. My biggest pet peeve about the media is the fact that they make it seem like EVERYBODY in the state of Oklahoma is IN LOVE with country music!

Wow this was an article written from dancer who visited OKC and Tulsa, and some highlights:

Out-of-Towner Soaks It In - Touring dancer finds ours a welcoming town - Arts - Urban Tulsa Weekly (http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A61722)

"The highlights of my stay in OKC were the free continental breakfast at the hotel and the day I explored the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum, which was home to a huge collection of various forms of barbed wire. Really."

and

"Needless to say, Oklahoma City didn't leave me with much more information about Oklahoma than musicals and movies had imparted to me."


"Tulsa gives me a sense of Austin, or Nashville, just on a smaller scale."

Key part of that article you didn't provide from a dancer who sounded like she didn't come in with an open mind to begin with...


A few years back, we performed in Oklahoma City

Not sure what time she associates with "a few," but things have changed. Not as much to make up ground, but depending when that performance was could be a big difference.

I'll say it again; I was born and raised in Oklahoma but still don't understand the OKC vs. Tulsa slap fight.

That being said; an article from a Tulsa magazine that paints OKC in a bad light and Tulsa in a good light isn't all that surprising. Also notice that she says she was without a car while in OKC.

She might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, take these types of comments with a grain of salt.....barbed wire, guess she missed the End of the Trail, one of the most famous and replicated western statues of all time.

Saying she was mostly stranded at the hotel implies she did not make many close friends with anyone who lives here and would know the area would know where interesting parts are. You can hang around in a generic hotel in most any city and say your time there was boring.

Another thing is she had a car in Tulsa but not in OKC, so that should lead to more access in a short time. Between that and the gap in years may also imply she has more money to spend in any city, which certainly can improve the experience.

While it does not say for sure it seems like a good chance she was staying alone in OKC verses with friends in Tulsa and which generally will make trips at least more interesting and most of the time much better.

I don't usually even acknowledge the OKC vs. Tulsa thing, because for one I really love T-town as a neighboring city, and visit often for various reasons. I think the whole thing is pretty dumb. But that article is a microcosm of the OKC vs. Tulsa grudge. Were the roles reversed and some ignoramus came to OKC spewing inaccuracies about Tulsa for the sake of brown nosing the 405, they would likely never make it into print in an OKC publication. Folks here for the most part would know they were patently false. Yet, in a Tulsa publication they are sought out and even celebrated. Stuff like this gives an apparent psychological boost to a number of Tulsans who aren't aware (and don't care to be aware) that they aren't even close to accurate.

The only thing that ever bugs me about Tulsa is the pervasive bigotry that so many people there hold toward OKC. The attitude is improving, I think, but it's still pretty aggravating.

these are the exact type of articles that my wife when she was in charge of image development at the chamber would either track down the author or the interviewee and discuss.

Not to mention Urban Tulsa Weekly is a terrible alt paper...probably one of the worst I've come across. So it wouldn't shock me they published such a petty write up. For future reference, I would definitely stick to This Land Press.

I usually try not to swat down an outsider's perspective but I for the reasons most have outlined here this article is not worth anyone's time.

And for the record, I really do like Tulsa, but yes the elitist attitudes came be a major turn off.

I don't usually even acknowledge the OKC vs. Tulsa thing, because for one I really love T-town as a neighboring city, and visit often for various reasons. I think the whole thing is pretty dumb. But that article is a microcosm of the OKC vs. Tulsa grudge. Were the roles reversed and some ignoramus came to OKC spewing inaccuracies about Tulsa for the sake of brown nosing the 405, those types of statements about Tulsa would likely never make it into print in an OKC publication. Folks here for the most part would know they were patently false. Yet, in a Tulsa publication they are sought out and even celebrated. Stuff like this gives an apparent psychological boost to a number of Tulsans who aren't aware (and don't care to be aware) that they aren't even close to accurate.

The only thing that ever bugs me about Tulsa is the pervasive bigotry that so many people there hold toward OKC. The attitude is improving, I think, but it's still pretty aggravating.

I think is somebody is going to assert Tulsa is superior to OKC they should do it accurately and honestly. Give facts as to why Tulsa is better rather than regurgitating tired national stereotypes about OKC. Too many times have I seen Tulsans trash OKC based on a experience back in the 1980s or 1990s. I would say from the perspective of retail, arts, and entertainment Tulsa still has an edge. However you will rarely see a Tulsa-booster even acknowledge OKC's improvements and recent successes. When anything good happens in OKC, they find a way to turn a positive into a negative. I have also seen many Tulsans seemingly root for Chesapeake to fail. I wonder why Tulsans are so down on OKC if they were really confident they were superior?

Wow this was an article written from dancer who visited OKC and Tulsa, and some highlights:

Out-of-Towner Soaks It In - Touring dancer finds ours a welcoming town - Arts - Urban Tulsa Weekly (http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A61722)

"The highlights of my stay in OKC were the free continental breakfast at the hotel and the day I explored the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum, which was home to a huge collection of various forms of barbed wire. Really."

and

"Needless to say, Oklahoma City didn't leave me with much more information about Oklahoma than musicals and movies had imparted to me."


"Tulsa gives me a sense of Austin, or Nashville, just on a smaller scale."


Maybe if she would have done this in OKC, she would not have been "stranded at a generic hotel on the highway"...


I find my housing before I get to a city on Craigslist or AirBNB to save some pennies. Sometimes I live with other cast members in a rental home, as I've done in Tulsa, or find people online who need temporary roommates for a month. Sure, my local roommates don't turn down my sheets every day (and they don't like it when I ask them to), but you save money over a hotel stay, and as it turns out, that's the fastest way to immerse yourself in a new city -- befriending the natives.

^^^ The article seems to simply parrot the things Tulsa natives say all the time. They first will take a jab at OKC's western heritage, and then will go onto say how Tulsa is far culturally superior with hip bars and live music. Then they will compare Tulsa to one of America's current great up and coming city. Usually it's Portland but she compared it to Austin and Nashville. She pretty much stuck to the formula though so kudos to her for that.

In all fairness I know a bunch of Tulsans (especially younger ones) who love coming to OKC for Thunder games, rock shows (yes, we have them here sometimes too), bars, or just a change of scenery. It's not everyone there who has this outdated attitude, but it is one that has been around for generations and is pretty pervasive.

I read the blog and she said she was "car-less, stranded at a generic hotel on the highway" in OKC and then several paragraphs down when she got to Tulsa, she mentioned her Prius that she drives across the country. She got cocktails and food downtown and went to Utica Square, hung out at on Cherry Street, went to a Drillers game and a few other places. This makes her lose all credibility right there. She could have stayed downtown or Bricktown and done basically the same things, but since she was car-less she has a terrible impression of our city.

I read the blog and she said she was "car-less, stranded at a generic hotel on the highway" in OKC and then several paragraphs down when she got to Tulsa, she mentioned her Prius that she drives across the country. She got cocktails and food downtown and went to Utica Square, hung out at on Cherry Street, went to a Drillers game and a few other places. This makes her lose all credibility right there. She could have stayed downtown or Bricktown and done basically the same things, but since she was car-less she has a terrible impression of our city.

This was probably all made up crap just to pump a few in Tulsa.....giving 'em some hope....

This was probably all made up crap just to pump a few in Tulsa.....giving 'em some hope....

It could have been made up. It's all so similar to the narrative you always hear from Tulsans that it definitely seems fishy.

I'll say it again; I was born and raised in Oklahoma but still don't understand the OKC vs. Tulsa slap fight.

That being said; an article from a Tulsa magazine that paints OKC in a bad light and Tulsa in a good light isn't all that surprising. Also notice that she says she was without a car while in OKC.

I don't get it either.

I grew up in a town and in a time when we received all 3 network TV stations from Tulsa and the 3 from OKC.... The Tulsa TV people would always take their shots at OKC and at the rest of the state. I never heard this from OKC about the Tulsa area. To me is was just like the little brother syndrome and a insecurity.

Even today it's not uncommon to hear people from the Tulsa area say that they are from god's country like they are some how better than everyone else.
Even as a young kid it's always been a big turn off for me. Those attitudes make it more difficult to make the state a better place.

Even today it's not uncommon to hear people from the Tulsa area say that they are from god's country like they are some how better than everyone else.Well, they did have Oral Roberts, after all. With any luck, they might have had Jimmy Swaggart as well! That does lenf a little credibility to their claims...

I think Tulsans are still smarting from being made fun of in "Friends" when Chandler was transferred from NYC.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEBo_V-b9Ik

^^^ From the perspective of people outside Oklahoma, OKC and Tulsa are more similar than different and the negative stereotype that is ingrained in the nation's conscience about OKC also applies to Tulsa. I remember not too long ago when that dentist in Tulsa who adhere to cleanliness standards and infected people with major diseases was national news, the CNN comments were filled with remarks like "They have dentists in Tulsa? I thought you had to have teeth to need a dentist." There were also many very insulting comments when it was reported Tulsa was bidding for the Olympics, not too different from when it was announced the Thunder was moving to OKC.

Indeed, but on the other hand if it keeps too many people coming herre and messing up the good deal we have...... (I am one of those transplants who never intended to stay, but here I am.) It has been said OKC is one of the best kept secrets in the US despite all the positive press. It isn't Chicago, Seattle, or wherever - but there is something about this place that latches on if you give it a chance and realize just how good life can be here.

Boring, redneck, uneducated, backwards, right wing, terrible for young singles, etc, etc are what a majority of Americans outside Oklahoma think about OKC. While a case can be made that perception is changing with recent positive press, it still seems to be very pervasive. Just look at the comments on any national article that casts OKC in a positive light and see what I mean. This thread thus far has discussed what OKC needs to do to move beyond that image, but I am wondering how it got that image in the first place? Was it the 1980s oil bust? The Pei Plan? Is it because Tulsa civic boosters paint OKC in that manner so they can boost Tulsa? I did a search and found a NewsOK article from back in 1985 discussing this very issue and how the mayor at the time was initiating a campaign to promote a more positive image of OKC. Can any local history buffs answer how and why OKC ended up with the stereotype?

that's something I'd be interested in bchris

I think it goes all the way back to 1907 at least. Initially, the entire state was tagged with that stereotype. The lawlessness and roughness of the early oil boom days in the 20s, bolstered it, as did the antics of Gov. Alfalfa Bill Murray who called out the national guard to block a toll bridge coming from Texas, and who after leaving office held court from his room at the Hotel Bristol, NW 2 and Broadway, chewing tobacco and ranting at anyone who would listen. Our clinging to prohibition until May of 1959 didn't help any, and neither did the dust bowl days and "Grapes of Wrath."

Tulsa managed to work its way clear of the stereotyping in the mid-30s to become known as the "oil capitol of the world" (despite Bartlesville and Ponca City both having almost equal claims to that title) but OKC didn't seem to actually be interested in doing anything about it. You younger folk might be amazed to know that Oklahoma's politics were heavily socialist in earlier days, then morphed into becoming yellow-dog-Democrat to such an extent that most of us registered D simply to have a vote, since few if any Republicans bothered to run for office so the Democrat primary settled most elections.

Not until the election of Dewey Bartlett, the first Republican governor of the state, did the state as a whole initiate any concerted effort to improve its image. He established the "Oklahoma is OK!" slogan, and gave out honorary Okie pins to celebrities much as Kentucky award Colonel commissions.

Much of the current perception of OKC stems from a reality that's still at least partially true. During the middle third of the 20th century there was almost no regular live music venue here. Those of us who hungered for live music had to settle for western swing as the standard, although big bands did visit on tour. I had the pleasure of hearing Stan Kenton twice in the 50s, and later Count Basie, Satchmo, and Tony Bennett. But these were special events, not regular nightly appearances. Wayne Nichols held forth at the Derby Club, but that was a strip joint and the music was incidental. Bill Phillips founded the Blue Note but it was continually struggling and didn't become a major factor until much later under different management. The brightest spot was a coffee house called The Buddhi, located on N Hudson, where all the top folk artists played and several significant performances were recorded -- but it failed to last and went dark even before the folk-music craze faded out.

I'm not sure that the stereotype is still so widely believed as you indicate; more and more folk are visiting here (e.g. Charles Barkley) and expressing amazement at what we have going. Remember, we're smack in the middle of flyover country, and few places on earth are as provincial as the two coasts of this nation. Yet despite all this, we've been better represented in the entertainment industry over the years than many other areas: James Garner, Jimmy Webb, Kristin Chenowith, Reba, Garth, Vince Gill, The Flaming Lips, these are just a few names that come to mind.

At least, people are quite aware of us these days -- and becoming moreso with every day that passes...

Not until the election of Dewey Bartlett, the first Republican governor of the state, did the state as a whole initiate any concerted effort to improve its image. He established the "Oklahoma is OK!" slogan, and gave out honorary Okie pins to celebrities much as Kentucky award Colonel commissions.



Jim, you forgot that Henry Bellmon preceded Dewey Bartlett & was Oklahoma's first Republican governor. I went to high school with his 3 girls & they were all excellent people. Bellmon himself was a great man & would be appalled at today's Oklahoma Republicans. He was independent minded & weighed every issue for what it was & not which party supported that issue. He was an AMERICAN FIRST, not a Republican first. I am biased since his daughter Gail was a good friend of my sister Betty & we once visited the Bellmon farm on the way home from a trip to Kansas. Gov. Bellmon showed me his farm & drove me around in his pickup.

I also knew the Edmondson family & went to a square dance party at the governor's mansion with Jeannie's 3rd (or 4th) grade class from Wilson Elementary.

At Governor Bartlett's victory party, I tried to talk one of the Bartlett kids (probably Dewey Jr.) into attending Classen instead of Casady, but I wasn't successful (I probably never had a chance).

I don't usually even acknowledge the OKC vs. Tulsa thing, because for one I really love T-town as a neighboring city, and visit often for various reasons. I think the whole thing is pretty dumb. But that article is a microcosm of the OKC vs. Tulsa grudge. Were the roles reversed and some ignoramus came to OKC spewing inaccuracies about Tulsa for the sake of brown nosing the 405, they would likely never make it into print in an OKC publication. Folks here for the most part would know they were patently false. Yet, in a Tulsa publication they are sought out and even celebrated. Stuff like this gives an apparent psychological boost to a number of Tulsans who aren't aware (and don't care to be aware) that they aren't even close to accurate.

The only thing that ever bugs me about Tulsa is the pervasive bigotry that so many people there hold toward OKC. The attitude is improving, I think, but it's still pretty aggravating.

It's embarrassing. Little brother masquerading as big brother complex. They really f'n hate the fact that OKC is improving there.

Boring, redneck, uneducated, backwards, right wing, terrible for young singles, etc, etc are what a majority of Americans outside Oklahoma think about OKC. While a case can be made that perception is changing with recent positive press, it still seems to be very pervasive. Just look at the comments on any national article that casts OKC in a positive light and see what I mean. This thread thus far has discussed what OKC needs to do to move beyond that image, but I am wondering how it got that image in the first place? Was it the 1980s oil bust? The Pei Plan? Is it because Tulsa civic boosters paint OKC in that manner so they can boost Tulsa? I did a search and found a NewsOK article from back in 1985 discussing this very issue and how the mayor at the time was initiating a campaign to promote a more positive image of OKC. Can any local history buffs answer how and why OKC ended up with the stereotype?

It's because of our politicians. They're complete right-wing nutbags. That's why we have that image. And the Oklahoma City Dolls made for TV movie made OKC out to be the cowtown it truly was at one time. Also, there was the depiction of OKC in Silkwood. Hollywood imagery has not been kind and we have these mouthbreating wingers speaking on our behalf to the entire country (with Sally Kern for good measure).

I have to question this, however: I have tried numerous times to remind you of all of the incredibly positive national press OKC is receiving, and you continue to post stuff like this. Why? Why do you discount the fact that our national image is changing?

And I ask, being from Charlotte, what is the national image of that city? It's probably not very flattering if it has a national image at all. A lot of people make generalizations about southern cities (and many of the generalizations are at least partially true). Point is, by the time every hipster in America looks at OKC as a utopia OKC will be well-past cool.

Jim, you forgot that Henry Bellmon preceded Dewey Bartlett & was Oklahoma's first Republican governor. I went to high school with his 3 girls & they were all excellent people.Yes, I really ought to have remembered Henry, especially since we ran an article about his daughters a couple of years ago in The New Classen Life (which I've edited since late 2007)! I have no excuse.

It appears that you, too, are a Comet. Are you aware of the Classen High School Alumni Association, which publishes the NCL and maintains a museum in the Classen building which we've just renovated? If not, let me know and I'll see you get the full information about our group and its activities, plus a copy of a recent NCL (it's a 40-page slick magazine that comes out every three months; the August issue is on the presses as I type this and should hit the post office around the end of next week). What year did you graduate (I'm a member of the 1948 class)?

It's because of our politicians. They're complete right-wing nutbags. That's why we have that image. And the Oklahoma City Dolls made for TV movie made OKC out to be the cowtown it truly was at one time. Also, there was the depiction of OKC in Silkwood. Hollywood imagery has not been kind and we have these mouthbreating wingers speaking on our behalf to the entire country (with Sally Kern for good measure).

Agree with this, but OKC isn't unique in having stupid politicians. Charlotte has Bill James, who is every bit as bad as Sally Kern, yet he isn't a national name. I wonder why. Hollywood and the media hasn't typically been kind to Oklahoma. That is also true of Arkansas and Mississippi, both of which have similar stigmas. I especially dislike how the media is dividing our nation into 'Red states' and 'Blue states' and stereotyping everyone accordingly. We are a nation of different shades of purple for the most part, OKC being no exception.



I have to question this, however: I have tried numerous times to remind you of all of the incredibly positive national press OKC is receiving, and you continue to post stuff like this. Why? Why do you discount the fact that our national image is changing?

I don't discount it. Truly open minded people have a better image of OKC and don't cling to stereotypes. However, simply read the comments on any of these articles to find out a lot of people still believe them. My most recent post was simply asking how those stereotypes came to be, not to accuse OKC of living up to the stereotype.

I have also been around a lot of negativity until very recently, some of which has rubbed off on me. If I have offended anyone, I apologize.



And I ask, being from Charlotte, what is the national image of that city? It's probably not very flattering if it has a national image at all. A lot of people make generalizations about southern cities (and many of the generalizations are at least partially true). Point is, by the time every hipster in America looks at OKC as a utopia OKC will be well-past cool.

Charlotte's doesn't really have that much of a national image, but if anything I would say people think of banking, NASCAR, and the excesses of the 2000s housing boom. Also the worst basketball team in NBA history. Hollywood hasn't been as cruel to it as it has Oklahoma though. Having the DNC really helped them but with the hard-right turn of their politics recently, I think their image will be tarnished.

Agree with this, but OKC isn't unique in having stupid politicians. Charlotte has Bill James, who is every bit as bad as Sally Kern, yet he isn't a national name. I wonder why. Hollywood and the media hasn't typically been kind to Oklahoma. That is also true of Arkansas and Mississippi, both of which have similar stigmas. I especially dislike how the media is dividing our nation into 'Red states' and 'Blue states' and stereotyping everyone accordingly. We are a nation of different shades of purple for the most part, OKC being no exception.



I don't discount it. Truly open minded people have a better image of OKC and don't cling to stereotypes. However, simply read the comments on any of these articles to find out a lot of people still believe them. My most recent post was simply asking how those stereotypes came to be, not to accuse OKC of living up to the stereotype.

I have also been around a lot of negativity until very recently, some of which has rubbed off on me. If I have offended anyone, I apologize.



Charlotte's doesn't really have that much of a national image, but if anything I would say people think of banking, NASCAR, and the excesses of the 2000s housing boom. Also the worst basketball team in NBA history. Hollywood hasn't been as cruel to it as it has Oklahoma though. Having the DNC really helped them but with the hard-right turn of their politics recently, I think their image will be tarnished.

Great post. I, too, care about our image, but I don't think it's as big a deal now as you may think. Part of OKC / Oklahoma's problem is an inferiority complex; people can tell when you're trying too hard. The fact is we have a city that is booming and turning into a very interesting place to live with low cost of living and many improvements in our quality of life. It's for us to enjoy, and if people want to move here, welcome!

While we should be concerned about our image I think we're on the right track just making a city where we want to live. Once we get there, we will have many new neighbors from other places.

I can't remember the abysmal Michael Douglas movie but it was in the early 2000s and there was a reference to his fictional family being sent to Austin. The wife was horrified and the husband apologized. Obviously, even "cool" cities like Austin had a poor national image at one time (due to being in Texas).

Let's just focus on making the most of our city and our image will follow.

As for the media, the coverage of OKC has been phenomenal -- even glowing -- the last few years. We really don't have much to complain about in that department when the New York Times Magazine is featuring our city and Forbes puts us on some "best" list once a month. I think it's going to be OK (but I'd love to throw some of these troglodytic politicians to the curb, starting with Lankford).

I consider myself Republican (just throwing that out there), and yes, we have some bad folks in the light who certainly don't help our image, but you guys sure paint with a broad brush blaming all our image problems on conservative politicians (you can't paint all you want on Sally Kern though).

As far as Lankford goes, I didn't vote for him because I was afraid he'd bring nothing but a religious whacko view to serving. I've actually been quite surprised and pleased with him. I've met him and heard him speak a few times, I think he has Oklahoma's best interest in mind as far as supporting Oklahoma businesses.

I can't remember the abysmal Michael Douglas movie but it was in the early 2000s and there was a reference to his fictional family being sent to Austin. The wife was horrified and the husband apologized. Obviously, even "cool" cities like Austin had a poor national image at one time (due to being in Texas).

I love the line in "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels" where Ruprecht (Steve Martin) gets excited about returning to Oklahoma -- although I don't think that improves our state (or city) image any.

Yes, I really ought to have remembered Henry, especially since we ran an article about his daughters a couple of years ago in The New Classen Life (which I've edited since late 2007)! I have no excuse.

It appears that you, too, are a Comet. Are you aware of the Classen High School Alumni Association, which publishes the NCL and maintains a museum in the Classen building which we've just renovated? If not, let me know and I'll see you get the full information about our group and its activities, plus a copy of a recent NCL (it's a 40-page slick magazine that comes out every three months; the August issue is on the presses as I type this and should hit the post office around the end of next week). What year did you graduate (I'm a member of the 1948 class)?

Jim, I am a proud graduate of Classen's Class of '67. Our class of '67 built the planter gracing the front of our school. I think I met you last year at our OKC Talk get-together & will likely see you at our OKC Talk get-together on August 14th. I need to resubscribe to Classen Life & visit the newly renovated Classen museum.

Thank goodness for people like you who keep the spirit of Classen alive.

--- John Hite, Classen '67, OU '71

Really, the first real national image of Oklahoma was formed because of the dustbowl and "The Grapes of Wrath". Dustbowl migrants from OK to Cali were mostly uneducated farmers who fled to Cali and were migrant farm workers much like Mexican illegals who followed them in time. Okies were poor, uneducated, but decent folks, but weren't really welcomed except to be poorly paid laborers.

Before the dustbowl era, the view was that Oklahoma was where you could go if you had nothing and get a new start. It attracted many who were willing to work and fight to get a piece of land and a chance out of poverty. It was not necessarily settled by privileged or educated people. And it was a populist state because it was the common man who settled here.

I think I met you last year at our OKC Talk get-together & will likely see you at our OKC Talk get-together on August 14th.Couldn't have happened last year because I wasn't at that get-together. I'm looking forward to being there this year, though, and I'll bring along a copy of the latest issue of the NCL...

Really, the first real national image of Oklahoma was formed because of the dustbowl and "The Grapes of Wrath". Dustbowl migrants from OK to Cali were mostly uneducated farmers who fled to Cali and were migrant farm workers much like Mexican illegals who followed them in time. Okies were poor, uneducated, but decent folks, but weren't really welcomed except to be poorly paid laborers.

Before the dustbowl era, the view was that Oklahoma was where you could go if you had nothing and get a new start. It attracted many who were willing to work and fight to get a piece of land and a chance out of poverty. It was not necessarily settled by privileged or educated people. And it was a populist state because it was the common man who settled here.

I've always thought this odd. I recently watched a documentary on the dust bowl and according to that documentary it was primarily the panhandle that was effected. Eastern Oklahoma, where the Grapes of Wrath is set, didn't even experience the dust bowl and in fact a few fled there and to western Arkansas to escape it.

Not odd at all; Steinbeck was a Californian and knew almost nothing about the geography of Oklahoma. He simply picked a town off the map and used that as his starting point. Most of the "okies" who fled to California actually were from Kansas and Colorado, which were much harder hit than was Oklahoma itself. The "black blizzards" that rolled across the east coast were from Colorado. I recommend James Michener's "Centennial" for a much more accurate picture of settlement in the central plains; Michener always did do his research quite well!

Not odd at all; Steinbeck was a Californian and knew almost nothing about the geography of Oklahoma. He simply picked a town off the map and used that as his starting point. Most of the "okies" who fled to California actually were from Kansas and Colorado, which were much harder hit than was Oklahoma itself. The "black blizzards" that rolled across the east coast were from Colorado. I recommend James Michener's "Centennial" for a much more accurate picture of settlement in the central plains; Michener always did do his research quite well!

Also a good read is "The Worst Hard Times". Great book and accurate.

I've always thought this odd. I recently watched a documentary on the dust bowl and according to that documentary it was primarily the panhandle that was effected. Eastern Oklahoma, where the Grapes of Wrath is set, didn't even experience the dust bowl and in fact a few fled there and to western Arkansas to escape it.

And yet, those immigrants to Cal were called "Okies" and it stuck...totally factual or not. Okies became the symbol of poor, uneducated displaced laborers. Since that wasn't that long ago and given the popularity of the book, we have been battling that image every since.

I'm not sure if this has been posted here before. It's a very nice short commercial by the Chickasaw Nation. I'm sure some of the video is stock footage but it's put together very nicely. I hope it is available outside the local area.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN1bkUnKj1M

I've always thought this odd. I recently watched a documentary on the dust bowl and according to that documentary it was primarily the panhandle that was effected. Eastern Oklahoma, where the Grapes of Wrath is set, didn't even experience the dust bowl and in fact a few fled there and to western Arkansas to escape it.

Instead of the Dust Bowl, the declining rural situation surely had more to do with farm jobs drying up due to the tractor and other modern implementation. At any rate, the phenomenon certainly didn't go away with the Dust Bowl. Population statistics show that nearly all towns in Arkansas and Oklahoma over the population of 5,000 added on more people from 1920 to 1940. Oklahoma City more than doubled in size during that period. Tulsa nearly doubled. It surely shows how fewer farm hands were needed due to advances in mechanization. So, many rural folks went looking to the cities for jobs in manufacturing and other fields. Those who wanted no part of city life must have chose to move to California to pick crops. During the 1950s rural Oklahoma continued to decline, since it led to Oklahoma losing nearly 100,000 people during the 1950s, while cities over 5000 pop. continued to add new people with very few exceptions. Oil boom and busts also surely played a role to explain population shifts. For instance, probably people weren't moving to Oklahoma during the 1950s, due to any oil boom.

I consider myself Republican (just throwing that out there), and yes, we have some bad folks in the light who certainly don't help our image, but you guys sure paint with a broad brush blaming all our image problems on conservative politicians (you can't paint all you want on Sally Kern though).

As far as Lankford goes, I didn't vote for him because I was afraid he'd bring nothing but a religious whacko view to serving. I've actually been quite surprised and pleased with him. I've met him and heard him speak a few times, I think he has Oklahoma's best interest in mind as far as supporting Oklahoma businesses.

Interesting how Sally Kern isn't in the news for her far right Christian outbursts any more. Maybe she got the impression doing that doesn't help her or the state much. For the delightful irony, it ought to be thrown in any news story concerning Sally Kern about how Oklahoma City has the only openly gay state legislator.

Lankford is definitely more articulate than the average member of Congress. He is considered more likely than many others for Republicans to grant him a more powerful position. If so, and if he uses it to put emphasis on the 3G issues, it could hurt the Republicans at the national level.

Maybe its selective hearing, but I hear Lankford discuss issues like budget, energy and business over any of the moral issues many conservatives pot bang over. That's encouraging, especially since it was a big fear of mine when he ran.

I'm not sure if this has been posted here before. It's a very nice short commercial by the Chickasaw Nation. I'm sure some of the video is stock footage but it's put together very nicely. I hope it is available outside the local area.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN1bkUnKj1M

What a great video! Apparently it is shown outside of the local area because a friend of mine from Florida said he saw this on his television. I was quite surprised!

I'm not sure if this has been posted here before. It's a very nice short commercial by the Chickasaw Nation. I'm sure some of the video is stock footage but it's put together very nicely. I hope it is available outside the local area.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN1bkUnKj1M

This is a fantastic video, but they left out the part where Lisa Billy says, "We at the Chickasaw Nation are so proud of OKC, we are suing them for millions in water rights! Yay!"

It's all PR. There is definitely an intent to soften people's view of their stance, indirectly, in any of these spots. I hate to think that way, because it's a wonderfully done piece, but when you are married to a PR professional, you have a tendency to view things differently.