That's absurd and is not even comparable to a 'check the welfare' call. Based on that then you seem to be okay with police stopping any citizen at any time and questioning them.
Its not absurd. Also, you ever hear of a call reporting a "suspicious person"? Should they ignore those too?

This isn't a case of the police harassing a random guy. People were calling in about him and they checked him out and he went on his way. Why is this difficult for you to comprehend?

I said something earlier in the thread but i still dont really get who is asking for open carry. Im an AVID gun lover and i practice concealed carry. I just wish the legislators would focus on actual issues instead of this open carry nonsense. I just dont get this whole thing...

People who own a business will not allow people to open carry in their business because of the liability and the fact that it will make their customers nervous.

Some will ban carrying on their property, concealed or open. Some will not. Not a lot different than today.

Its not absurd. Also, you ever hear of a call reporting a "suspicious person"? Should they ignore those too?

This isn't a case of the police harassing a random guy. People were calling in about him and they checked him out and he went on his way. Why is this difficult for you to comprehend?

Yes, it is absurd. A person obeying the law is not 'suspicious' simply because some ignorant citizen either doesn't know the law or simply doesn't like it doesn't make it so.

By that logic we should all be Zimmerman's and call the cops every time a suspicious black guy is walking through a neighborhood and the cops should detain him because "people are calling in about you."

This makes us look like a bunch of reneck gun-toting hicks. So what else is new? We've got Sally Kern too.We are currently only one of eight states that don't allow some form of open carry. Many without any kind of license. If open carry will make us look like hicks the majority of the USA already do.

We are currently only one of eight states that don't allow some form of open carry. Many without any kind of license. If open carry will make us look like hicks the majority of the USA already do.


How will this make us look like hicks anymore than most other states that already have some sort of this law on the books? I don't understand the looking like hicks remarks. Seriously,that remark doesn't make any sense. Any sane law biding citizen should be able to bear arms. Felons will not be the ones openly carrying guns,it will be the law biding non felon.

If I take a ride on my motorcycle and want to strap a holstered 44 mag to the side I should have that right IMO.

I think people wanting to open carry need to be realistic. I can go walking down the street with a samurai sword strapped to my back and it'd be perfectly legal, but if I did it I'd probably realize I might have someone stop to make sure I am not a nut. If I were standing around outside a bar at 2 a.m. but had not had a drop to drink, I would probably expect to have a cop come talk to me if he wanted to see if I were a public drunk. This happens all the time and no one talks about it or thinks twice about the scenario. If I were walking down the street stumbling around with a brown paper baggie in my hand I might expect to get stopped to see if I had alcohol/drugs on me. Perhaps that's unfair if I am a clutzy guy who just bought some Tic Tacs at the convenient store, but it happens. I think if you want to open carry you need to have realistic expectations. No, no one can take that right away from you if the bill passes, but that doesn't mean you will never be inconvenienced, just like in all these other much more common scenarios. Am I saying it's right? No, not necessarily. I'm saying it happens all the time with much less significant items.

If not, then how is enforcement supposed to work? Yes, I approve of the cops making darn sure everyone who carries a weapon openly is 100% in compliance with the law. If we are going to allow people to walk around with guns we do need stop, identify and present your gun permit laws.

If they can't stop you while driving just to make sure you have a license, they should be able to just stop you for carrying to make sure you have a license.

Originally Posted by Double Edge http://www.okctalk.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?p=536603#post536603)
If not, then how is enforcement supposed to work? Yes, I approve of the cops making darn sure everyone who carries a weapon openly is 100% in compliance with the law. If we are going to allow people to walk around with guns we do need stop, identify and present your gun permit laws.

If they can't stop you while driving just to make sure you have a license, they should be able to just stop you for carrying to make sure you have a license.

Police will not stop anyone without probably cause or reasonable suspicion just like they always do. If you give them a reason to make contact with you they will likely ask as they always do. "Do you have any weapons on you." or they may ask you to surrender your weapon long enough to run the serial number against the stolen gun data base. Anyone with ounce of common sense will tell the officer the gun is present at the point the officer make contact with them. Rather it be a traffic stop or a stop and talk on the street. For the common person, a traffic stop is the only time your going to be confronted by an officer unless your causing problems.

double post

Police will not stop anyone without probably cause or reasonable suspicion just like they always do. If you give them a reason to make contact with you they will likely ask as they always do. "Do you have any weapons on you." or they may ask you to surrender your weapon long enough to run the serial number against the stolen gun data base. Anyone with ounce of common sense will tell the officer the gun is present at the point the officer make contact with them. Rather it be a traffic stop or a stop and talk on the street. For the common person, a traffic stop is the only time your going to be confronted by an officer unless your causing problems.

Excuse me, the only 'reasonable suspicion' in this case was someone calling 911 because the person was obviously following the law - which allowed him to carry a weapon exposed.

I can tell you right now, when/if this passes into law, I will be getting a jogging holster so I and my wife can carry while jogging and it will be exposed. Wonder how long before we are stopped for obeying the law.

I can tell you right now, when/if this passes into law, I will be getting a jogging holster so I and my wife can carry while jogging and it will be exposed. Wonder how long before we are stopped for obeying the law.

^ This.

And also, I will never surrender my firearm so an officer can "just check it out". Typos happen and it's a fishing trip I will not go along with. Nothing in this law allows an officer to disarm you unless you are doing something already illegal.

For anyone interested, here is a link to the final version of the bill: http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf/2011-12%20ENR/SB/SB1733%20ENR.DOC. It's certainly, from a reasonable viewpoint, soundly written and does not seem to open the floodgates for a new "wild west" in the state... at least not for the reasonable, open-minded folk.

I am a concealed carry license holder. The main reason I supported passage of this bill is because of the whole "accidental exposure" risk that could lead to legal difficulties. Other than that, I have no plans to regularly open carry because I don't want to draw attention to myself, except possibly for the same reason Brian Bates mentioned a couple posts ago (jogging).

Here are a couple key paragraphs from Section 1290.8 that are relevant to some of the above comments:


B. The person shall be required to have possession of his or her valid handgun license and a valid Oklahoma driver license or an Oklahoma State photo identification at all times when in possession of an authorized pistol. The person shall display the handgun license on demand of a law enforcement officer; provided, however, that in the absence of reasonable and articulable suspicion of other criminal activity, an individual carrying an unconcealed handgun shall not be disarmed or physically restrained unless the individual fails to display a valid handgun license in response to that demand. Any violation of the provisions of this subsection may be punishable as a criminal offense as authorized by Section 1272 of this title or pursuant to any other applicable provision of law.


E. Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize a law enforcement officer to inspect any weapon properly concealed or unconcealed without probable cause that a crime has been committed.

I currently hold a concealed carry license. My main reason for wanting open carry is the same as what "Of Sound Mind" said. If I am concealing and someone thinks they can make out the shape of a gun under my shirt even if they can't see it, I can get in trouble which is kind of ridiculous.

I don't think a whole lot is going to change. I doubt there will be very many walking down the street with their weapon at their side in plain view, although there will be a few in the beginning. As stated before by others the main advantage of this law is the "accidental exposure" part. I'm not sure what the law say's about business's not allowing CCW or open carry and what if any specific signs they need to have posted. I know I won't be doing any open carrying because I don't want any bad guys knowing that I'm armed and taking me out first. Just seems like common sense to me.

I know I won't be doing any open carrying because I don't want any bad guys knowing that I'm armed and taking me out first. Just seems like common sense to me.

This has not happened in other states where open carry is legal. If it did, there would be news reports about it. However there have been cases where open carry did deter crime.

SB1733 has officially been sent to the governor.

SB1733 has officially been sent to the governor.


Lets hope they make quick work of this and it passes.

But,the way police act in OKC they will find a reason to stop you if they suspect you are carrying a gun. That's just their mentality. They have a O tolerance on everything it seems. Small town cops.

They stopped a friend of mine while he was walking across the street going to a thunder playoff game a couple years ago. The arts fest. was in town and it must have been around 5:00 pm and they gave him a ticket for jaywalking. Serious. He had a few beers but was not even close to being drunk ( I was already in the arena waiting for him with his ticket) and they were really hassling him. I couldn't hardly believe it but I seen the ticket. There were thousands of people on the streets and they were hassling a bunch of people trying to catch someone scalping tickets from what I was told.

Bottom line,OKC Police need to grow up and start acting like they are working in a city instead of a small town. I bet if you go downtown tonight and spit on the sidewalk in front of one of these rookie cops he will give you a ticket. What are they going to do when they see people carrying guns? Oh you can bet that they will find some reason to hassle you. They are inbread to act like this.

What are they going to do when they see people carrying guns? Oh you can bet that they will find some reason to hassle you. They are inbread to act like this.

Thats why im not going to open carry for quite some time. Look at this video of a police officer in austin, pulling up to a wrong house to respond to a domestic disturbance call, and then killing the owners dog within a matter of seconds. Just some college kid sitting outside minding his own business.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R523KrUFVHQ

My problem with open carry is the cops around here. With Open carry the police instantly consider you a deadly threat. So you could be minding your business and they make the split second decision that you 'looked' like you were reaching for your gun and instantly end your life. How could you or your family prove them wrong?


Atleast with concealed you dont have a big cop target on your chest and your family might be able to get something if you are wrongfully killed. I'm not even saying that the above cop in the video is a bad cop or horrible person. But there are tons of hot head, half wit cops out there and some innocent open carry people will die from it.

This has not happened in other states where open carry is legal. If it did, there would be news reports about it. However there have been cases where open carry did deter crime.

Still I don't care to make myself a target, if you choose to be my guest.

Thats why im not going to open carry for quite some time. Look at this video of a police officer in austin, pulling up to a wrong house to respond to a domestic disturbance call, and then killing the owners dog within a matter of seconds. Just some college kid sitting outside minding his own business.

<snip>

My problem with open carry is the cops around here. With Open carry the police instantly consider you a deadly threat. So you could be minding your business and they make the split second decision that you 'looked' like you were reaching for your gun and instantly end your life. How could you or your family prove them wrong?


Atleast with concealed you dont have a big cop target on your chest and your family might be able to get something if you are wrongfully killed. I'm not even saying that the above cop in the video is a bad cop or horrible person. But there are tons of hot head, half wit cops out there and some innocent open carry people will die from it.

Anyone carrying a loaded weapon is a deadly threat with zero to a couple of seconds from potentially being an imminent deadly threat. That's the point in carrying.

^^^^
Though, the same could be said about the driver of a car.

^^^^
Though, the same could be said about the driver of a car.
DING, DING, DING, DING... we have a winner!

In fact, let's compare gun death stats with car death stats in Oklahoma.

^^^^
Though, the same could be said about the driver of a car.

Likewise, the person who knows where to strike a firm blow, and is willing to do so.

^^^^
Though, the same could be said about the driver of a car.

Except for design, purpose and intent. In other words, not really. I said it was the point of carrying a weapon and it is:


Anyone carrying a loaded weapon is a deadly threat with zero to a couple of seconds from potentially being an imminent deadly threat. That's the point in carrying.

Any one who drives a car with that point is a menace to society.

Shame you can't own up to the truth.

Likewise, the person who knows where to strike a firm blow, and is willing to do so.

No reason whatsoever to carry a weapon then.

Interesting how the proponents do not want to own up to the nature and purpose of carrying a loaded gun.

No reason whatsoever to carry a weapon then.

i don't carry a weapon .. (based one where i work) .. but i 100% support the right to do so ...

Interesting how the proponents do not want to own up to the nature and purpose of carrying a loaded gun.I think all of us who carry would own up if you kept to the context of the post. I am most definitely a threat to the life of anyone trying to do physical harm to me or my family. I am not any threat whatsoever to any officer of the law or anyone else that might be in the area.

Interesting how the proponents do not want to own up to the nature and purpose of carrying a loaded gun.
The reason I carry a loaded weapon is to protect my life and the lives of my family should I be faced with an imminent deadly threat. My intent is NOT to use it -- and I sincerely and desperately hope that I never have to. However, if someone else's life-threatening choices and actions force me to make that deadly decision, I will exercise my right to protect myself and my DUTY to protect my loved ones.

My fists will likely not be sufficient to stop an armed intruder or attacker. My kitchen knives will likely not be sufficient to stop an armed intruder or attacker. The police response -- as good as it may be -- may not be quick enough to be sufficient to stop an armed intruder or attacker. "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

I have locks to help protect me and my family. I have an alarm to help protect me and my family. I have dogs to help protect me and my family. But none of those things can ultimately protect me from an armed intruder -- especially a desperate and/or drugged-up one -- the same way a loaded firearm can.

Do I want to use it in a deadly force situation? Absolutely not. But I also don't want to be defenseless, especially when the lives of my wife and daughters hang in the balance.

I have been a victim of an assault with a deadly weapon in my younger, pre-married, pre-fatherhood days. There was no help around, at least that could help me in time. I was helpless. My fists would likely have only made the problem worse. I was fortunate that it only resulted in a beating and a robbery and that THIS felon didn't see it necessary to take it any further. However, not all felons are so "kind" and "generous." I don't want to ever be in a situation where I have to depend on the bad guy's "good humor," "good mood," or general "good will" to survive.

If you don't want to carry a gun, fine. I respect that. But why would you deprive me of the ability to have at least a fighting chance to protect myself and my precious loved ones? That I cannot respect.

SB1733 was signed by the governor today and will take effect Nov 1, 2012.

No reason whatsoever to carry a weapon then.

Oh, don't devolve into abject silliness. You're so much better than that. There is a time/place for hand combat. Like using a firearm, it is not appropriate in all circumstances.

I fully concede to having held significant concerns when concealed carry by permit was being debated for enactment here, and for a spell afterwards. I've since seen, as have we all, such concerns have proven to be unwarranted. We're ot the wild west. we're not seeing shootouts between angry permit carriers. We're not hearing of firearms being forcibly taken off rubes who had no business carrying then being used to commit crimes by others. In short, it turned out to be no big deal.

Upon signing of the act, the sole difference I can see in the law now and after signing is some folks who would otherwise wear a firearm concealed will now have the option to also wear their firearms in full view.

The sun still rises in the east. Firearm crime is unlikely to rise.As far as some hick with a complex packing heat, he probably was next to you in line at a store yesterday, but you simply did not see it.

If it is a real problem for someone, s/he can treat firearm friendly establishments the same way some non-smokers treat smoker friendly establishments. Spend one's money elsewhere and advise the owner why one chooses not to trade there.

FWIW, while I like firearms, I don't carry. Never have sought a permit. Likely never will. I've simply lost my concerns regarding those who do choose to carry.

What is the law on where one can and can't carry CCW? I know Federal and State buildings, banks, schools and bars but what else is off limits? Can a store owner simply put up a sign saying no weapons and is that legal?

Banks are not off limits. Banks are private businesses so unless they post, they are not off limits.

here is the list of prohibited places:

1. Any structure, building, or office space which is owned or leased by a city, town, county, state, or federal governmental authority for the purpose of conducting business with the public;

2. Any meeting of any city, town, county, state or federal officials, school board members, legislative members, or any other elected or appointed officials;

3. Any prison, jail, detention facility or any facility used to process, hold, or house arrested persons, prisoners or persons alleged delinquent or adjudicated delinquent;

4. Any elementary or secondary school;

5. Any sports arena during a professional sporting event;

6. Any place where pari-mutuel wagering is authorized by law; and

7. Any other place specifically prohibited by law.

To add to hrdware's post, you can find more detail information here, a link to the final version of the bill: http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf...1733 ENR.DOC (http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf/2011-12 ENR/SB/SB1733 ENR.DOC).

To specifically answer your question about businesses, the new legislation does not change the original language in the most recent version of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act.


TITLE 21 § 1290.22 BUSINESS OWNER’S RIGHTS

A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, nothing contained in any provision of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title, shall be construed to limit, restrict or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of any person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity to control the possession of weapons on any property owned or controlled by the person or business entity.

B. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall be permitted to establish any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting any person, except a convicted felon, from transporting and storing firearms in a locked vehicle on any property set aside for any vehicle.

Thanks !!

As an 18 year old born and raised in a quiet small town who will be moving to the SW side of Oklahoma City to attend OCCC next fall, I couldnt be more upset with Mary Fallin than I am now. That side of Oklahoma City has too many dangerous people and now I'll be scared for my life coming out of my apartment just by having a hoodie on. Does she want more cases like Travon to come up? She just really ticked me off!

As an 18 year old born and raised in a quiet small town who will be moving to the SW side of Oklahoma City to attend OCCC next fall, I couldnt be more upset with Mary Fallin than I am now. That side of Oklahoma City has too many dangerous people and now I'll be scared for my life coming out of my apartment just by having a hoodie on. Does she want more cases like Travon to come up? She just really ticked me off!

What?? You should be afraid of the criminals not the law abiding citizen. The same people carrying concealed today will be the ones that will be able to carry openly on Nov 1. Just because you couldn't see their gun you wouldn't have been afraid of them?? That doesn't make much sense to me. Just don't go around threatening and attacking people and it won't be an issue for you.

What?? You should be afraid of the criminals not the law abiding citizen. The same people carrying concealed today will be the ones that will be able to carry openly on Nov 1. Just because you couldn't see their gun you wouldn't have been afraid of them?? That doesn't make much sense to me. Just don't go around threatening and attacking people and it won't be an issue for you.

Some people are going to take full advantage of this law.. Foolishly just wait and see.

Soonerboy, as you are 18, for the vast majority of your life it's a reasonable bet you have wandered around, hoodie or no hoodie, twixt and tween folks who were strapped, but who carried their handgun concealed from view.

As you just typed your worries today, it is also a fair bet no one has gunned you down and you're safe, sound and amongst the living. Why oh why if you've lived nearly all of your life walking around folks who may, or may not, have been wearing a sidearm, would you suddenly find a fear merely in actually knowing some of them definitely are.

Not to be mean toward your fear, but if it is going to exist, it's probably better to fret over folks who don't visibly because that group includes the lawful concealers and the unlawful concealers, the latter quite likely being more prone to mischief and mayhem.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-governor-signs-open-carry-bill-into-law/article/3675750



Gov. Mary Fallin signed into law Tuesday a measure that allows Oklahomans to openly carry handguns.


Article Gallery: Oklahoma governor signs open-carry bill into law
The measure, Senate Bill 1733, allows those who are licensed to carry a firearm under the Oklahoma Self Defense Act to openly carry a weapon or conceal it.
It also allows a property owner to openly carry a handgun on his or her land. No concealed carry permit would be required.
To receive a license under the Oklahoma Self Defense Act, applicants must take a firearms safety and training course and submit to a background check by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation. Those convicted of felonies and certain misdemeanors may not receive a handgun license.
The measure takes effect Nov. 1.
Oklahoma is the 25th state with either “permissive open carry” laws, or no permit required, or “licensed open carry,” which requires a permit. Oklahoma now joins Utah, North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana, Tennessee, Georgia, Mississippi, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Hawaii and Massachusetts as a “licensed open carry” state.
“As a strong supporter of the Second Amendment and a gun owner myself, I'm happy to sign this bill into law and grant law-abiding citizens the ability to openly carry firearms,” Fallin said. “Senate Bill 1733 sends a strong message that Oklahoma values the rights of its citizens to defend themselves, their family and their property. It does so in a responsible way, by requiring those citizens who choose to ‘open carry' to undergo both firearms training and a background check.”

Oh, don't devolve into abject silliness. You're so much better than that.

My thoughts exactly when you fired off the false equivalence I was responding to.

Now the bad guys know who to shoot first.

Sad day. This governor has done more to validate Oklahomas ignorance, racism and lack of progressive initiatives than any other that I can remember. Vigilante justice now sanctioned by the State. Predict she will pardon that pharmicist before long.

SoonerBoy18, Double Edge, et al.:

Please point to specific news accounts, law enforcement data and/or reputable studies and statistics quantifying the explosion of violence, chaos and lawlessness that has occurred in the following states that preceded Oklahoma as "licensed open carry" states: Utah, North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana, Tennessee, Georgia, Mississippi, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Hawaii and Massachusetts.

Great day for conceal carry holders, printing is no longer an issue and if you weapon becomes exposed you won't be charged with a misdemeanor.

Sad day. This governor has done more to validate Oklahomas ignorance, racism and lack of progressive initiatives than any other that I can remember. Vigilante justice now sanctioned by the State. Predict she will pardon that pharmicist before long.
Do you hold the following states in such low disregard as well?

(As I pointed out earlier) Utah, North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana, Tennessee, Georgia, Mississippi, New Jersey, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Hawaii and Massachusetts, all of whom preceded Oklahoma as "licensed open carry" states.

Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota, Vermont, Virginia, Alaska, North Carolina, Nevada, and Kentucky, which are "permissive open carry" states (which means the states have passed full preemption regarding all firearm laws; these states permit open carry to all law-abiding citizens without a criminal record without any special permit or firearms license).

Maine, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Ohio, West Virginia, Michigan, Wisconsin, Alabama, Louisiana, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado, Oregon and Washington, which are considered "open-carry-friendly" states.

Except for design, purpose and intent. In other words, not really. I said it was the point of carrying a weapon and it is:


Anyone carrying a loaded weapon is a deadly threat with zero to a couple of seconds from potentially being an imminent deadly threat. That's the point in carrying.

Any one who drives a car with that point is a menace to society.

Shame you can't own up to the truth.
The real shame is that you fail to understand that the intent of carrying a weapon within the limits of the law is to protect yourself and your family. The only people I am a threat to is someone who attempt to do me mortal harm. Any one who brandishes a weapon illegally is likely just as much of a menace to society as someone who drives a car in a manner meant to kill someone.


SB1733 was signed by the governor today and will take effect Nov 1, 2012.
YES! I've already got my eye on a concealment holster that, while it doesn't conceal as well as the one I have, is much more comfortable.

I dont know too much about the crime rate in Oklahoma City but I do know the rate has gone up in January 2012. And the south side of Oklahoma City is not a great place to be so this should be interesting.

For anyone who missed it, what happened today is the gov. signed an act that creates a new law which will take effect on November 1 of this year. So while open carry is coming, it is still more than five months away.

As an 18 year old born and raised in a quiet small town who will be moving to the SW side of Oklahoma City to attend OCCC next fall, I couldnt be more upset with Mary Fallin than I am now. That side of Oklahoma City has too many dangerous people and now I'll be scared for my life coming out of my apartment just by having a hoodie on. Does she want more cases like Travon to come up? She just really ticked me off!

As a 17 year old who was born and raised on southside I can tell you your fears should be non-existant. I can understand why you have the misperception that you are walking straight into your grave by going to OCCC with this bill passed but with all due respect, it's ignorant of you to be any more worried now than you were in the first place. If I were you I would be more worried about getting involved with the gangs than I would be about someone shooting me because I'm wearing a hoodie.

Now the bad guys know who to shoot first.

Where is your proof???

Sad day. This governor has done more to validate Oklahomas ignorance, racism and lack of progressive initiatives than any other that I can remember. Vigilante justice now sanctioned by the State. Predict she will pardon that pharmicist before long.

How do you figure? Oklahoma has had concealed carry for 17 years without all the blood in the streets that everyone was predicting. The same people carrying concealed today will be the ones able to carry openly on Nov 1. Does the date magically change my personality and my mentality? I think not, so where does this vigilante justice idea come from. If it were true, it would already be happening.

The real shame is that you fail to understand that the intent of carrying a weapon within the limits of the law is to protect yourself and your family. The only people I am a threat to is someone who attempt to do me mortal harm. Any one who brandishes a weapon illegally is likely just as much of a menace to society as someone who drives a car in a manner meant to kill someone.


YES! I've already got my eye on a concealment holster that, while it doesn't conceal as well as the one I have, is much more comfortable.

Stray bullets, misunderstandings, accidents and agendas changing in the heat of the moment notwithstanding. Not speaking about you specifically, mind you, I'm sure you have never made a mistake (Zimmerman? The cop who killed a kid shooting a snake?); misunderstood someones intentions (Zimmerman?); nor lost control of your emotions (Zimmerman?) in your life.

I dont know too much about the crime rate in Oklahoma City but I do know the rate has gone up in January 2012. And the south side of Oklahoma City is not a great place to be so this should be interesting.

How do you equate what criminals do to restoring rights to law abiding citizens. Do you think the criminals had guns magically appear in their hands when they shot someone because they couldn't legally carry them around? Criminals don't care about the law. Laws are only for law abiding citizens.

Stray bullets, misunderstandings, accidents and agendas changing in the heat of the moment notwithstanding. Not speaking about you specifically, mind you, I'm sure you have never made a mistake (Zimmerman? The cop who killed a kid shooting a snake?); misunderstood someones intentions (Zimmerman?); nor lost control of your emotions (Zimmerman?) in your life.

Not while I've been carrying a firearm I haven't.

Let's not forget innocent until proven guilty (Zimmerman?) and all that other constitutional stuff we have either.

Not while I've been carrying a firearm I haven't.

Let's not forget innocent until proven guilty (Zimmerman?) and all that other constitutional stuff we have either.

Right. Every person who gets a permit is a perfect, omnipotent, crack shot, killing machine.


innocent

The reason for the question mark but if not him as a poster child, someone else has/will make all those mistakes.

Right. Every person who gets a permit is perfect.



The reason for the question mark but if not him as a poster child, someone else has/will make all those mistakes.

Not everyone. In the 17 years Oklahoma has had concealed carry, around 170000 permits issued and 160 revocations in that time frame. Also in that same 17 years we have not one single case of a bad shooting under the SDA law.

That's pretty damn close to perfect in my book.